Managers

[The Gribbler]

I am sorry if this thread already exists but I was unable to find it.

Now the question I would like to ask is - Why does the WWE not have managers any more. I can name at least 5 wrestlers off the top of my head who are terrific (or at least above par) in ring but really need a mouth piece to get themselves over with the crowd.

Take for example Brock Lesnar a while back: I personally cannot stand Lesnar on the mic, his voice just always sounded more like a teenager than a muscled up athletic freak. However when Brock came into the WWE he was over like mad. This was because of two things, his freakish skills in the ring and his manager at the time Paul Heyman.

Much the same can be said of a number of other stars.

Now people like Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas, Whom I both enjoy in the ring but wince whenever they get ahold of a microphone, really need someone to be talking for them.

Why not bring back managers? I think they add a dynamic and it gives the superstars time to develop. Give them some mic time here and there but keep it limited, they can learn from their mouthpiece until they are good enough to do it on their own.

Just My Opinon.

What do you guys think?

 

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

Lord Sidious would be having a gosh darn field day. He would say it has something to do with the changing business and the way the WWE is putting more emphasis on the wrestling aspect and less on the storyline or character building aspect. Hence, anything that draws attention away from the wrestling would be a detriment to the match and hence would be removed. He would probably bring up the toning down of announcers too, bless him.

I'm tempted to agree with this, as I believe that several people could benefit from managers greatly, and it isn't as if there would be a shortage of mouthpieces. Guys like Abraham Washington would work wonders for anyone as a mouthpiece, and there are always guys to be hired that could work. But ring work is very important in todays dynamic, at least some believe, and guys like Morrison can get over without the need of any mouthpiece. I think this has something to do with sustainability. A midcarder may have a mouthpiece or manager, but sooner or later, when they reach the main event they will usually break away from their partner in crime. See: Shawn Michaels

But they do exist. Katie Lea Burchill, Ranjin Singh I suppose. but perhaps they are dying out. We generally can tell if a performer isn't that great on the mic, and a manager isn't going to help that, because he can't use that guy for his whole career. Besides, unless the manager is abo****ely superb at drawing heat, which is usually what managers are supposed to do (A successful face manager is a rarity methinks) then their role become obselete. How much would Kofi Kingston benefit from a manager really? He's exciting enough in the ring as it is, and a guy going around hyping him up wouldn't help, just as it wouldn't help Jack Swagger or Mike Knox.

The Golden Age of Managers may be over.

 

[johnbragg]

Part of the reason is that Vince doesn't see a need. He is the dominant company, he has all the stars. If Charlie Haas and Shelton Benjamin never become stars, it doesn't really hurt Vince.

I think Heyman was the last significant manager, and that was for Brock Lesnar who McMahon had decided from the beginning was going to be a star. Heyman was on the payroll anyway, and wasn't really being used otherwise, since at that time I believe that Cornette was running OVW, both GM spots were filled and the JR/Lawler Cole/Tazz announcing teams were set for a good long time.

 

[The Gribbler]

But Mantaur, do you not think that having a good talked with you week after week whilst you are in the midcard might give you someone to learn promo work from? Much like a rookie being teamed with a veteran can help a youngster learn some old school wrestling tricks if he pays attention?

Or do you think Rookies should be watching old tapes for things like that?

 

[johnbragg]

An idea I keep proposing for the guys at the bottom of the ladder is a NASCAR-style team points competition. Have three or four or five teams with "coaches" (and maybe different sponsors) competing for say, the Horseman Cup or a Bockwinkle Championship Series(BCS, har har). Mix in different match formats--over-the-top elimination, tag matches, singles match series, timed matches with neutral judges. Come up with some kind of points system as you go along. Give opportunities for the coaches to use strategy--what order do you put your wrestlers in for singles matches, etc. Have an prize for best individual competitor, so that you get team vs. primadonna drama. For the coaches, you have a ton of guys on Legends contracts and a ton of non-Legend veterans who probably need the money and aren't coming back as full-time wrestlers (Hardcore Holly, Val Venis, Nick Dinsmore, Ron Simmons).

 

[The Incredible Mr. C]

Finally a subject I want to post on... thanks Gribbler.

Ah, wrestling managers... for the most part they seem to have gone the way of the dodo bird and Jeff Jarrett's pals in TNA... extinct.

I would LOVE to see managers make a comeback. I have no idea why WWE doesn't use them anymore. In the good old days (here I go again), they were generally used effectively to get heels over, mostly for main events. And they did work.

Now, it could be due to the sheer talent of some of these managers that the scenario worked so well. It could be argued, in fact, that following the first Wrestlemania, Bobby Heenan was the biggest heel in the WWF. (Post Wrestlemania 1, because Roddy Piper was just way too good in those days.) Think about it...

Wrestlemania 2 - Heenan was the voice for main eventer King Kong Bundy... a very bland guy on the mic.

Wrestlemania 3 - Heenan was the catalyst for Andre the Giant's heel turn, and helped build the match almost as much as the two biggest stars in the WWF at that time.

I could go on and on, and I probably will.

Here in Dallas, growing up on World Class Championship Wrestling, we had two great managers... okay, one great and one good, who drew heat by being "foreign." Gary Hart and Skandor Akbar both continually brought in new heels from other territories to face off against the Von Erichs. Hart's "family" and Akbar's Devastation, Inc. had many rotating members, but even if the new guy had never been seen in the Sportatorium, he had instant heat just because of his association with either of these two.

Stuff like this could work today, for sure.

Imagine a very, very talented talker coming in wanting to take out John Cena and realize the riches that come with managing the champion. He could start with a monster type heel, say a Mike Knox or a returning Festus (PLEASE don't let him come back as Punk's bodyguard), build him up in promos, heel wrestles Cena, Cena overcomes odds against bigger, scarier guy, and manager's interference, Cena looks like the superhero they push him to be, a new main event level heel is created. When it's time to create a face, have that heel turn on the manager and his newest charge.

Meanwhile, manager either brings up someone from FCW, rinse, wash, repeat; OR starts scouting current talent looking to give them that edge, that guiding light, that business acumen that will get them the title shots they rightly deserve.

Really, it's old school booking 101. I know that not everything old school will work now, but I certainly believe this would.

Now, I want to make this clear that a manager would not be for everyone. Some guys should make or break on their own. And we may never find another Heenan, Gary Hart, Jim Cornette or anyone close to those legends. But it certainly couldn't hurt to try. What's one or two more salaries when you've been paying Kung Fu Naki and Hornswoggle this long?

 

[The Wolf]

If you look back at alot of the greatest heels and matches ever they all have had a manager.

 

[Tastycles]

Managers aren't necessary anymore basically, that's why there isn't any. In the past, the heels were generally faceless large men, who were over based on their size. Invariably, this meant that they didn't have any mic skills, so the role of manager was created to cover the gaps in their abilities.

Nowadays, the heels are as charismatic as the faces, and are more than capable of delivering their own promos. There are very few people in the WWE that could benefit from having a manager, and those that could, like Khali, for example, do have one.

Looking at the WWE roster, I don't see anyone else who would be significantly better if they had a manager. PEople will say "yeah, but guys like Festus could be better with a manager", which is perhaps true, but I'd take Orton, Edge and Jericho over Festus with a manager any day of the week.

 

[Henry Hill]

Managers truly aren't necessary anymore, though i am sad to say it. If you look around the WWe you see guys that would make a great mouth piece for someone, Matt Striker comes to mind, Santino has the ability to be something more than just a comedy jobber, Taz could've done that job pretty well. The trouble is that because of the way the business has changed, there really isn't a place in wrestling right now for a manager like Bobby Heenan who gave a wrestler credibility just by being in his corner. Sure there are guys who could use someone to talk for them, but WWE already has guys that do their own talking for their own reasons in the top spots, so why pay someone to talk for a guy you aren't going to push anyway?

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

Managers truly aren't necessary anymore, though i am sad to say it. If you look around the WWe you see guys that would make a great mouth piece for someone, Matt Striker comes to mind, Santino has the ability to be something more than just a comedy jobber, Taz could've done that job pretty well. The trouble is that because of the way the business has changed, there really isn't a place in wrestling right now for a manager like Bobby Heenan who gave a wrestler credibility just by being in his corner. Sure there are guys who could use someone to talk for them, but WWE already has guys that do their own talking for their own reasons in the top spots, so why pay someone to talk for a guy you aren't going to push anyway?

If that is the sole contribution you think managers made to the business, then you are totally ignorant to everything a manager truly offered to professional wrestling.

For those that started watching wrestling at 1998 or later, I feel sorry for you, as you totally missed the boat on one of the most entertaining facets of the wrestling business that Vince took away from you-- wrestling managers.

Let's take a stroll back to Memory Lane. I am going to pick 1990, as it was the year that I started watching professional wrestling.

I truly was fortunate to experience the Greatest Managers of All Time in WWE History, as well as WCW history.

We are talking about:

Bobby "The Brain" Heenan
"The Mouth of the South" Jimmy Hart
"The Doctor of Style", Slick
Mr. Fuji
Sensational Sherri
Miss Elizabeth
Paul Bearer
Paul Heyman
Jim Cornette


Pretty much 90% of the Heels in WWE and WCW had managers at the time. Obviously, there was a reason for it. And nothing has fundamentally changed that deems managers unnecessary in this day and age.

Smarks who get on the Internet like to preach the Vince McMahon Gospel of how "managers are unnecessary in this day and age" and how "managers are only there to talk for guys that have trouble getting over". Nothing further could be from the truth.

Managers' sole purpose wasn't "just to talk for people who couldn't get over". Fact of the matter is that we've had some excellent talkers during the Era of Managers that talked just fine on their own, but still had a manager/valet in their corner.

Just to give some examples off the top of my head, we had guys like:

Ravishing Rick Rude, managed by Bobby Heenan, Paul Heyman
Mr. Perfect, managed by Bobby Heenan, The Genius, and Coach
Honky Tonk Man, managed by Jimmy Hart
Macho Man Randy Savage, managed by Sensational Sherri, and Elizabeth
Million Dollar Man Ted Dibiase, with Virgil, managed by Sherri and Jimmy Hart
Sgt. Slaughter, managed by General Adnan
Hulk Hogan, managed by Jimmy Hart
Ric Flair, managed by Mr. Perfect, advised by Bobby Heenan
The Mountie (Jacques Rougeau), managed by Jimmy Hart and Johnny Polo
Faarooq, managed by Clarence Mason
Owen Hart and British Bulldog, managed by Jim Cornette, Clarence Mason
IRS, managed by Million Dollar Man Ted Dibiase, Jimmy Hart
Undertaker, managed by Paul Bearer
Kane, managed by Paul Bearer


Now, look over that relatively short list of guys (in the big scheme of things) that had managers, and tell me that all of those guys had trouble speaking, so had to have a manager at ringside for the purpose of doing the talking for them.

Managers added a entirely new element to the product that either fans have forgotten, newer fans simply aren't aware of, or that Vince marks want you to forget in an effort to show more blind obedience to the man.

First and foremost, they were a unique character element, who each had their own distinctive personality. They provided one more variety of the types of characters that can be seen on a wrestling program besides simply wrestlers and announcers.

They had the ability to draw fans into the action, even if the action was slow. The intensity on their faces. Not knowing when they may attempt to interfere.

Then, there is the thrill of seeing the manager get caught by the Face, and having to pay the piper for their interference in a match by taking a bump or two at the end ... which always got a rise out of the crowd when a non-wrestler takes a bump.

Managers added a whole new dimension to potential match finishes as opposed to the wrestler himself simply being pinned, submitting, counted out, or disqualified by their own means.

We've seen managers use various methods of interference in the matches:

Distracting opponents
Motivating their wrestlers (adding additional drama to the match)
Arguing with the referee
Hitting an opponent with a cane, megaphone, or other foreign object
Choking an opponent on the outside of the ring
Putting their wrestler's foot on the ropes, if they fear a 3 count
Entering the ring to prevent a 3 count
Managers getting attacked by their opponents



They are also an additional character that can be added into angles for storylines, that aren't used to their capacity today.

Wrestler hires a new manager
Wrestler fires a manager
Manager Face/Heel turn
Manager causes their wrestler to turn Face/Heel
Manager interacts with Authority Figure
Manager gets attacked backstage
Manager verbally interacting with a wrestler's opponent
Manager interviewed by an announcer

As stale as WWE programming is these days with the same ol' same ol', WWE should be embracing anything and everything that can add different aspects of interest to their programming. And this is a HUGE element that could bring more entertainment to the product, if utilized effectively.

Managers were so much more than "simply talking for someone who couldn't speak". For some reason during the years, Vince taught his fans that this is the only reason why managers were around .... when in reality, they added so much more to the programming than people realized.

Their purpose was to enhance the Heels presentation, and elicit emotions from the crowd. Managers weren't there to overshadow ... rather they were part of the entire entertainment package for each of the matches.

I think some people really need to go back and watch some tapes. If it were me, I would be assigning managers to 70% of the roster today ... and not simply to do the talking for people. Rather to stimulate interest and intrigue in the entire product.

 

[Nature Boy]

I think its a shame that there are no longer managers.

I know that occaisionaly a wrestler will have a female as a 'valet', but I miss the days of actual managers.

I really loved James Mitchell as a manger, and he was the last link to those days.

But I think that Managers add so much, and still could.

Gary Hart
J.J Dillon
Paul Ellering
Bobby Heenan
Jimmy Hart
Sherri

It would be great if there were more managers in that mould today.

Not only do they serve as a mouthpeice to get people over and/or talk for them, but they also add drama to a match/angle ie distracting the referee, taunting the oppenent, rilling up the fans and so forth.

I know the business today doesn't really have a call for managers, but I think it would be a great move to breing them back into todays product.

 

[Dave]

I honestly have no idea why they don't use managers any more but I don't really think it makes that much of a difference in reality. Managers are there to get people over but there isn't really anyone person who could do that now. Can you name me one person who would make a good manager from the roster? I can't think of any. The last one I can remember is big Zeke and even that was a complete failure with him now on ECW. The last successful one that comes to mind is Jillian Hall as JBL's manager. Since then, there hasn't been a great demand for them.

I think that this ploy of getting people over using managers is slightly flawed because it always ends up that the managers are the ones who are doing all of the work and it detracts from the superstar more than it helps in my opinion. Nevertheless, I am sure that this tactic will come back now and again to get people over. I personally don't like it or find it entertaining but many people do. If WWE want to continue doing things that way, that's fine. It's a legitimate tactic for getting people over but I think they should be a bit more clever with their stars and have them get over in the ring and not by who is outside of it.

 

[Billie Jean]

I was a big fan of managers and to be honest, i still am. I think, and i am very sad to say this, but they are not nessesery anymore. Sadly, i have not be fortunate to be around in a time where managers were naturally around. Now it is very rare thing to see, especially because there are some superstars today that could really benefit form having a voice to back up what they do in the ring. Someone like Kofi Kingston or someone in the mid-card. A voice could really benefit some people, I think that they should just keep things as they are, as they are doing fine just now on their own. As someone else already mentioned through, there are a lot of people would could really benefit form being a manger. Someone like Santino Marella, who people think is a comedy jobber, and he is, but he could be soo much more. It is just a shame.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I think that this ploy of getting people over using managers is slightly flawed because it always ends up that the managers are the ones who are doing all of the work and it detracts from the superstar more than it helps in my opinion. Nevertheless, I am sure that this tactic will come back now and again to get people over. I personally don't like it or find it entertaining but many people do. If WWE want to continue doing things that way, that's fine. It's a legitimate tactic for getting people over but I think they should be a bit more clever with their stars and have them get over in the ring and not by who is outside of it.

So are you saying that Bobby Heenan did all the work for Mr. Perfect, Rick Rude and Andre? or that more recently Melina did all the work for Morrison?

Of course not... that would be silly...

The problem now is that WWE has killed the concept pretty much of a wrestler not being able to do the work himself... In todays WWE if you can't get the job done on your own... you "aren't over" ... or you are Randy Orton lol...

That is the biggest reason why managers have all but disappeared, cos inherently, a wrestler with talent, who needs a manager is weaker... As a concept it is wrong but thats how it is...

I would say now is the time to bring it back, with Cornette a free agent it makes a hell of a lot of sense... bring him in to work on all 3 brands with a stable made up of people from all of them..

Have segments with him recruiting... along the lines of "you haven't made it yet cos you haven't had a manager kid... " put Shelton, Swagger, Seamus and Ziggler in there... and watch them all flourish... imagine an angle where he is trying to get gold on each brand... and gets it...

With rumors of Bret coming back, the logical thing for him is manager of the Harts... but to this day it stuns be they haven;t brought the Anvil in on a similar role.. straight away those are 2 people who can be "bought" as managers, without weakening their charges...

 

[The Gribbler]

One other Element that I didn't add is that it would stop all of the heel, running like *****es s*** that goes on. I feel it gives the WWE an out in a match where they don't want the heel or face to look weak.

Have the manager get his client DQd and you can book your way out of a corner so to speak.

 

[TwistofRKO]

You guys make good points on why they aren't necessary any more, but that doesn't mean having them out there won't make it better.

For example, this past Friday Big Show vs Batista, Chris Jericho was parading around like a manager, and I think it added to the match. Does Big Show NEED a manager? Not necessarily, but it added to the match, in my opinion. He was annoying, the fans responded and rooted even more against the Big Show.

Obviously Jericho's best work isn't as a manager, but it shows you that managers can still be successful, especially if they were trained properly.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

You guys make good points on why they aren't necessary any more, but that doesn't mean having them out there won't make it better.

If you ask me, their points are actually pretty downright lousy, because you can tell by their words that they don't understand the full function of what the manager was to the entire show.

They look at it as if someone has a manager, then that is a bad thing. And I have pointed out countless examples above how even the best talkers had managers.

I don't understand where this mentality came along or where it originated that having a manager is a bad thing for a wrestler, because it makes it appear that they can't talk.

Ravishing Rick Rude was great. With Bobby Heenan, he was even better.

Mr. Perfect was great. With Bobby Heenan, he was even better.

Honky Tonk Man was great. With Jimmy Hart, he was even better.


The smarks who serve as apologists for McMahon's decision to get rid of one of the most entertaining aspects of wrestling, completely disregard the second major function of a manager in their arguments-- their presence and antics at ringside, which only adds to the drama of the match.

 

[dvayne]

Nowadays the WWE looks for stars that are the total package (mic skills, charisma. in ring) The problem is that these days if your missing the mic skills you just aren't pushed. TWGGT were an amazing tag team that was taken seriously WITH KURT ANGLE. But when it came time for them to sink or swim on their own they couldn't do it. I hope it will come to the point again someday to where managers are better served. Imagine a new up and comer in 10 or 20 years with Jericho or Punk building them up.

Even better Jericho as a color commentator in ten years but thats a whole different thread

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

Can you name me one person who would make a good manager from the roster? I can't think of any. The last one I can remember is big Zeke and even that was a complete failure with him now on ECW. The last successful one that comes to mind is Jillian Hall as JBL's manager. Since then, there hasn't been a great demand for them.

I don't think you are expanding your horizons enough. Managers don't necessarily have to be wrestlers. All they should have to know how to do is to talk and take some basic bumps. They shouldn't have to train right along with wrestlers and nor should they expected to be in the same physical conditioning as a wrestler.

And that's the problem with WWE's perceptive in Developmental. Unless you can do the entire package, they aren't interested in you. So if someone has mic skills that could capture an audience's attention and capture an intense amount of heat, yet doesn't have the body for a wrestler, then WWE will pass you by since you aren't a wrestler. The person could take some bumps without problem ... but because they can't wrestle, WWE is not interested in you.

So without a doubt in my mind, there are some excellent potential managers out there that could easily do it, and thus increase WWE's quality of TV two-fold, yet WWE is simply disregarding this talent, and isn't really even looking for them, unless they look like a wrestler and can actually wrestle matches.

Actually a shame, since people who can actually talk seem to be the more gifted ones, since so many people in WWE today aren't actually all that great on the mic .... yet when people come around that are, they are disregarded, because they aren't wrestlers.

 

[TwistofRKO]

If you ask me, their points are actually pretty downright lousy, because you can tell by their words that they don't understand the full function of what the manager was to the entire show.

They look at it as if someone has a manager, then that is a bad thing. And I have pointed out countless examples above how even the best talkers had managers.

I don't understand where this mentality came along or where it originated that having a manager is a bad thing for a wrestler, because it makes it appear that they can't talk.

Ravishing Rick Rude was great. With Bobby Heenan, he was even better.

Mr. Perfect was great. With Bobby Heenan, he was even better.

Honky Tonk Man was great. With Jimmy Hart, he was even better.


The smarks who serve as apologists for McMahon's decision to get rid of one of the most entertaining aspects of wrestling, completely disregard the second major function of a manager in their arguments-- their presence and antics at ringside, which only adds to the drama of the match.

I didn't agree with them on not having managers, just it not being a necessity any more.

I completely agree on having managers though, it expands many avenues to the match that haven't been explored in years. The problem is the only managers anyone (the majority of the crowd) remembers is Mark Henry and Teddy Atlas, and that wasn't very exciting.

 

[Jimmbo420]

I have asked Jim Ross this question on his Q&A section on his company's website. His response is that the people in charge feel that it is too "old school" to have managers. I personally think that is stupid. There are people today that could really use one....Jack Swagger comes to mind.

I miss managers ALOT... there were so many great ones. My personal favorite managers will always be Bobby "the brain" Hennan and "Classy" Freddie Blassie


Great Managers
Bobby Hennan
"Classy" Freddie Blassie
Paul Bearer
Mr. Fuji
Miss Elizabeth(The TRUE first lady of wrestling)
Sensational Sherri
Sunny
Paul E. Dangerously
Paul Ellering
Jim Cornette
Jimmy Hart
The Grand Wizard
Captin Lou Albano
JJ Dillon

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

I have asked Jim Ross this question on his Q&A section on his company's website. His response is that the people in charge feel that it is too "old school" to have managers. I personally think that is stupid. There are people today that could really use one....Jack Swagger comes to mind.

I miss managers ALOT... there were so many great ones. My personal favorite managers will always be Bobby "the brain" Hennan and "Classy" Freddie Blassie


Great Managers
Bobby Hennan
"Classy" Freddie Blassie
Paul Bearer
Mr. Fuji
Miss Elizabeth(The TRUE first lady of wrestling)
Sensational Sherri
Sunny
Paul E. Dangerously
Paul Ellering
Jim Cornette
Jimmy Hart
The Grand Wizard
Captin Lou Albano
JJ Dillon

Just like he says that the "people in charge" (AKA: Vince McMahon) also thinks that Face/Heel broadcasting teams are "old school" and therefore why we have this Play by Play/Analyst Commentator bullshit on today. That is simply JR's way of blaming Vince, without outright naming his name as being the man responsible.

I would love to know which fans they are talking to about this stuff, because those are two of the most entertaining aspects of wrestling GONE, simply because Vince McMahon himself doesn't like either one of them.

I see very very few fans who stick up for his latest, toned-down vision for his Analysts and I frequently see people complain around the Internet about the lack of manager characters.

Yet one more piece of evidence of "The Audience of One" at work.

 

[Jimmbo420]

Just like he says that the "people in charge" (AKA: Vince McMahon) also thinks that Face/Heel broadcasting teams are "old school" and therefore why we have this Play by Play/Analyst Commentator bullshit on today. That is simply JR's way of blaming Vince, without outright naming his name as being the man responsible.

I would love to know which fans they are talking to about this stuff, because those are two of the most entertaining aspects of wrestling GONE, simply because Vince McMahon himself doesn't like either one of them.

I see very very few fans who stick up for his latest, toned-down vision for his Analysts and I frequently see people complain around the Internet about the lack of manager characters.

Yet one more piece of evidence of "The Audience of One" at work.

Yeah, the commentary pretty much sucks today. Vince thinking that having a heel and a face together is "too old school" as well, which pisses me off because those are my favorite and the most entertaining. King/J.R. and Monsoon/Ventura(or hennan) are my personal favorites. They are so bland today. I have always hated Michael Cole, that pencil neck geek. The King is a shell of his former self on commentary, pretty sad to see because he used to be my favorite. They sucked the life out of the Burger King!! J.R. just seems to have lost the passion. If you watch J.R.s commentary back in the 90's and watch it today, you can tell. I don't mind Matt Stiker, he would be a great heel commentator and a great manager. Josh Matthews and Todd Grisham are just boring and easily replaced.


I can't stand Vince's audience of one crap. I don't really watch WWE anymore. I still follow it online somewhat, but TNA is my brand of choice at the moment. I would follow both, but WWE just doesn't interest me anymore. Although, if Bret Hart comes back I'll have to tune into that.