Loser's Bracket Final #29: Stormtrooper -vs- hatehabforever

[D-Man]

As an on-screen character, will Triple H ever become a better figurehead than Vince McMahon once was?​

This is a debate to determine the Loser's Bracket champion in the 2012 Wrestlezone Debater's League Tournament.

Stormtrooper won the coin toss and will be the home debater. He's earned the right to choose EITHER which side of the debate he wants to argue OR who provides the opening statement. He can also defer this choice to his opponent. (The home debater has 24 hours to make this decision otherwise it is automatically deferred to his opponent.)

After these choices are made, the first post of the debate must be posted within the first 24 hours otherwise it will affect the starter's Punctuality portion of the judging. Debaters have 24 hours to respond to their opponent's post and the faster the response, the better chance you have to score higher point totals. If a debater is late with their post, their opponent can post again and continue posting every 24 hours until they receive a reply. More posts equal a better chance of gaining the Persuasive points in the debate.

There is no maximum amount of posts for debaters in this round. Debaters can create unlimited replies until the allotted time of the debate runs out.

This thread is for DEBATERS ONLY and will end on Friday at 2pm EST where judging will immediately begin. Judging must be finished no later than Saturday at 5pm EST.

Anyone that posts in this thread besides the debaters, league admins, and judges will be infracted!

Good luck to the participants.

 

[Stormtrooper]

As the home debator, I will choose side of the topic I will debate.

I say that Triple H will NOT become a better on-air figurehead then Vince McMahon.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Let me start off by congratulating Stormtrooper for making it this far in this competition. I also want to thank you in advance for actually taking part in the debate process; I cannot imagine a third consecutive walkover. I look forward to a great debate with you throughout the week. However, you may want to change that sig of yours, because while you may be right about some matters on here a large amount of the time, I unfortunately will have to prove you wrong in this instance.

[size=+2]Introduction[/size]​

There is no denying the significance of the on screen Mr. McMahon character. I will leave it in the capable hands of my opponent to outline the pertinent details of this. However, if handled properly and conducted effectively, I think that the Triple H on screen character, as a figurehead of the WWE, can actually surpass Vince McMahon, simply because he can bring aspects to the figurehead character that McMahon was simply unable to provide. And now I'll explain why I feel this way.

[size=+2] Vincent Kennedy McMahon[/size]​

To be the man, you've got to beat the man. And Mr. McMahon, the onscreen persona, has been such a pivotal character in the WWE. So whenever the time comes for Triple H to assume control of the company, both in reality and from a kayfabe perspective, there is storyline gold there. And if they do this in an effective and logical manner, Triple H as a figurehead can be launched as being even bigger and better than Vince. They already teased this a little bit back in July of last year:

​

I suspect this was somewhat of a test, a trial run so to speak. But the day will come that this will happen for real, and Hunter will have to replace Vince, both behind the scenes as well as on camera. This could be done with HHH as a face, replacing the evil Mr. McMahon and thereby heading the WWE back in the right direction (kayfabe), much like in the tease video above. Or it could be done as a prickish heel, putting the old guy out to pasture, assuming control of the company and having free reign to do with it as he pleases. This in turn sets up all kinds of possibilities, plenty of which would allow a heel Triple H to become a figurehead character on screen who can supersede the work done by his predecessor. Which segues nicely into my next point.

[size=+2] The Bitch Is Back [/size]

​

Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley was once a significant on screen character as well. Over and above her significant role behind the scenes in reality, she could easily reincarnate this on screen bitch character to be a significant component in the takeover of the company by the heel figurehead Triple H. I'm not suggesting it would necessarily be exactly like the above video, as that was over 12 years ago and a lot has changed. Characters are older, the PG Era exists, etc., but the point is still the same. If Triple H needed some assistance in the beginning in asserting control of the company and truly cementing himself as a heel figurehead character who could function more effectively than McMahon himself, who better to come back for a while, and sporadically thereafter, to really help build the character? If Triple H were to assume on screen control of the WWE, putting VKM out to pasture in the process, and become the better figurehead character in the process, Steph could easily facilitate this process.

[size=+2]Active Competitor[/size]​

I realize that the question at hand here involves Triple H as a figurehead character in the WWE, and whether or not he can surpass Vince McMahon in this role. The thing is, though, is that Paul Levesque is only 42 years old and despite some physical injuries sustained over his career, he is still in tremendous physical condition. In this regard, he can easily blur the lines between authority figure and active competitor, and in doing so, further cement his status as a figurehead character who can overtake the notoriety of McMahon. Vince would periodically insert himself into in ring activity, to further his evil intentions, and it was often very effective, but when he did so, he was older and of course he was never truly an active competitor. Triple H could do the same, and then some. And in doing so, by still performing on occasion as a plausible in ring competitor, he can advance his status as a figurehead character. How could he do so?

Spoiler

The man who currently holds the record for the most heavyweight championships, a record which most assumed that Triple H would surpass. After all, he married the boss's daughter, he was a main event scene hog, would not put anyone else over, yadda yadda yadda. Triple H has been the recipient of so much negativity, especially from the IWC, because of his ability to use his family position to further his career. So imagine the ire he could draw from the fans as a figurehead character who could use his new power to challenge and surpass the Nature Boy's accolades, in a nice blend of active competition and authority figure status. He could rest on his laurels as a true figurehead for most of the year, then occasionally use his authority (with or without his wife's help) to secure cheap victories and undeserved title reigns, something which would draw tremendous heat and really help put him in the category of an evil figurehead far more so than Vince.

Spoiler

The man who by all accounts will actually be the guy to overtake Ric Flair's record number of heavyweight championship titles. Unless, of course, some heel figurehead were in place to run interference and prevent it from occurring. Whether Triple H were to use his new found power to overtake Flair himself, and then use his authority status to protect it from Cena as above, or if he never did so, but simply used his figurehead power to protect his buddy's record from Cena, the bottom line would be the same. HHH could use his figurehead position to impact upon the record book pertaining to the heavyweight championship scene, directly or indirectly, and as such, serve as a better on screen figurehead than McMahon.

How about this guy?

Spoiler

The man who holds arguably the most coveted prize in professional wrestling: "the streak". I wonder how the fans would react if Triple H, as a figurehead character, as a corrupt evil authority figure, used his position to end the streak? This could occur by Hunter using his power to screw the Taker to end the streak at the hands of someone of his choosing, or it could be done by himself personally. This is yet another example of the type of action that could put Triple H in a position as being viewed as a figurehead far worse than what Vince McMahon was able to accomplish.

Spoiler

Another hypothetical? A storyline return of this man, only to have it thwarted by the evil figurehead Triple H. This would again draw tremendous heat, and could do wonders to make Triple H the sort of evil figurehead that McMahon could only hope to become.

One last hypothetical.

Spoiler

After being away for years, Shane McMahon finally makes his triumphant return to the WWE, to take over the family business from his father, only to have Triple H screw him over. Once again, tremendous heel heat and cementing the legacy of Triple H as an evil figurehead better than what VKM was.

Obviously, these are hypothetical scenarios which could be utilized to make Triple H an evil figurehead which could rival and ultimately surpass his father-in-law. If any or all of these sorts of situations, or other comparable ones, were to be executed, Triple H could definitely become a better on screen figurehead character than Vince McMahon once was.

[size=+2]Face Figurehead[/size]​

Of course, most of the scenarios proposed above involve Triple H surpassing the on screen character of Vince McMahon while functioning as a heel boss. And I do think that this would be the best way for him to supersede Mr. McMahon's character in terms of infamy. However, over HHH's in ring career, he has functioned very effectively as a face as well as a heel, and he could bring this component into his figurehead repertoire as well. While operating predominantly as a heel boss, he could perform occasionally in a face role, and be very effective as well. So, for example, if the WWE is being run by a guy like this:

Spoiler

a man like Triple H could function quite nicely as a figurehead on screen character to get rid of him, if necessary. Or if a guy like this:

Spoiler

were to appear and run roughshod throughout the company, a face figurehead Triple H would work to squash he threat in some manner.

At the end of the day, there's no doubt that Triple H will have pretty big shoes to fill to surpass the on screen figurehead character of Vincent Kennedy McMahon. However, I truly believe that if anyone can do it, he certainly can. By exploiting his natural abilities and charisma, his family situation, his versatility in and out of the ring, and his perception by the fans and by the IWC, Triple H can absolutely surpass Vince McMahon in terms of as a figurehead character in the WWE.

 

[Stormtrooper]

Before I start my opening post, I would like to congratulate hatehabsforever for making it into the final 3. I was looking forward to debating him in this round, and I hope it is as entertaining for everyone reading as it will be for us debaters. And now, it's time for the sub-Main Event of the 2012 Debate League.

Triple H is a legend of the Sports Entertainment business. His career in the Squared Circle is unparalleled in modern Professional Wrestling. Now that his career as a full-time Sports Entertainer has ended, there is a clamoring for Triple H to be a Figurehead/Authority Figure. He may be pretty decent in that role, but he will NEVER be as good as the greatest Authority Figure of all time, Mr. McMahon.

The Perfect Storm
[youtube]u74i7IkMcSw[/youtube][youtube]bmh1lkhQICI[/youtube]
How do you get yourself over as a heel authority figure? Be a heel authority figure in real life
​

The Mr. McMahon character was a perfect storm of various real-life situations that led to the kayfabe success of the character.

First, the saga of Bret Hart and the Montreal Screwjob outed Vince McMahon as the Kayfabe owner of the company (obviously people knew he was the real owner, but in Kayfabe he was just the commentator). Not just did it out McMahon as an owner, but it outed McMahon as a ruthless, asshole of an owner.

So McMahon was outed as an asshole owner. At the very same time, the entire landscape of Sports Entertainment shifted. This seismic shift was created thanks to a rebel promotion in Philly, but also thanks to the antics of one man in WWE, who set the world by storm thanks to his anti-hero antics.

The Perfect Rival

That's the bottom line, because Vince McMahon helped Stone Cold get the crowd to say so
​

Stone Cold Steve Austin.


In order to get an authority figure over, you need to have a strong personality opposite the figure. McMahon got as hot as he was because of the man who he spent years feuding with. Stone Cold is arguably the greatest Superstar of all time. There is no one in WWE that can duplicate that. Cena is great, but he is far too much of a nice-guy face to get an asshole heel over. CM Punk has the personality, but is nowhere near the level of Austin or Cena.


--------------------------------


So everything I said is proof of how amazing the Mr. McMahon character is, I have yet to mention Triple H specifically. Well, here are a few reasons why Triple H cannot reach the success of Mr. McMahon.

He's A Legendary Sports Entertainer

I think this is a good way to describe Triple H's career, no?
​

Triple H has a legacy unlike anyone in the history of WWE. He has won the Worlds Championship more then anyone not named Flair. He is considered one of the best ever in the ring. While these are great for his wrestling career, it is a fatal flaw for his figurehead career. Vince McMahon was great because at first he never got his hands dirty, he had his charge doing all the dirty work. Dude Love, Kane, The Undertaker, and finally The Corporation. Eventually, he had to get his hands dirty, but it was more of a last resort, and when he did it was a big deal because Vince had never gotten physical yet.


Triple H has had such a storied career, that there is almost no way to have him let other people do his dirty work. As soon as someone like John Cena, CM Punk, or Sheamus start to get on his nerves, he would have to think that the best way to rid himself of them is to just take care of business himself (or try to). This would lead to extremely short feuds, which hinders Triple H getting over to McMahons level. If they try to make a long feud, the fans will shit all over it, knowing that Triple H is a better option then whoever he gets to do his dirty work.

He's Still Young

Triple H in Figurehead/Authority Figure years
​

I know what you're thinking. How is him being young a bad thing? Well, Triple H is only 42 years old. Mr. McMahon was still a major figurehead through 2011, when he was in his late 60's. That means that the fans would be expected to care for Triple H for over 50 years (as a WWE Superstar then a WWE figurehead/executive/etc). Fans will be sick and tired of Triple H by the time he's 50, as his act would be extremely stale. By contrast, the fans didn't have to care about Mr. McMahon until November 1997. By the late 2000's, he had been stale already. Now in 2012 he is off TV (thankfully).




As a perfect conclusion to my opening post, I would like to quote my esteemed opponent hatehabsforever.

I think Stormtrooper is right as usual.

Yes hatehabsforever, I am right. As usual. Best of luck in the rest of our debate.

 

[hatehabsforever]

There's absolutely no doubt about it, Triple H is a true legend in the business of professional wrestling. I can't really see how that's a bad thing as he transitions gradually from a full time wrestler into an authority figure, a figurehead along the same lines as Vince McMahon (only better). I also don't see people "clamoring" for him to assume this authority persona. I think this can and will occur gradually. After all, as you concede on a couple of occasions, Triple H is still quite young. Time is on his side to develop the character he evolves into gradually, and to nurture and develop it as other superstars emerge along the way to oppose him. Now that he is no longer a full time wrestler, I think he can begin the process, in fact as we all know, he already has, albeit as a face at the moment. This can change as time marches on, as his character continues to develop.

I agree with the idea of exploiting real life situations, or at least the fans' perceptions of them, to blur the lines of kayfabe and reality and hence bring added dimensions to character development. Sure, Vince did so, but Triple H can as well. Let's face it, Vince McMahon is going to step down eventually, and hand the reigns of his company over to his son in law and daughter. That's reality. We all know it will happen, it's just a question of when and how. So if exploited properly, this can be the ultimate blend of reality and kayfabe which can build the heel persona of HHH extremely well. A power hungry couple of greedy self centered personalities, taking Vince's company from him. How's that for exploitation of reality, or at least a perception of it?

Using real life to build a character? How's this:

Paul Levesque and Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley are married in real life, and have children together. That's reality. And this real life union can be exploited into the development of the heel boss persona that HHH can employ to supersede the character of his father in law. Again, the power couple taking over and running the company by their own whims and desires.

Spoiler

No one really knows the relationship in real life between these two men. Is there animosity or not? Did Shane leave because he was not happy about sharing the company with his sister and brother in law, or worse, being subservient to them? And it doesn't really matter. Such animosity is at least plausible, and the suggestion of it is another blend of reality and kayfabe which again can be utilized to advance the character of boss Hunter.

Sure, a heel character of this nature, whether it be Vince or Triple H, needs a strong rival. When the Screwjob went down and the whole SCSA versus Mr. McMahon thing was born, it was effective. But in 1996, there was no Rattlesnake. There was this guy:


No one could have foreseen in 1996 that this dude would stand out and become such a critical character in the progression of the heel character of Mr. McMahon. So how do we know that there isn't someone else, whether it be an underutilized existing talent, or someone not even there yet, who could step up to be a chief antagonist to the heel character of Mr. Levesque? I'm not suggesting there's another Stone Cold out there, as he's one of a kind. But there still could be someone significant to rise up and stand out and help advance HHH beyond the standard set by McMahon. After all, Triple H is still young, you said so yourself. Lots of time to find a chief antagonist for him.

And I don't buy the suggestion that Cena cannot be a significant opponent for Triple H, and a significant component to the progression of his character. Cena has opposed the boss before. He's done it to McMahon. He's doing it right now with Laurinaitis. And who better to oppose a ruthless boss who is drunk on power, than a super face and the true face of the entire organization? Especially if that guy is threatening to set the record for most heavyweight championships, something that the heel boss covets and once seemed destined to achieve. Pure gold for the development and progression of the character beyond that achieved by Vince.

Are you suggesting that Triple H is beyond seeking help from some other guys to facilitate his desires and support his agendas? Because I'm sure he, like anyone else in such a position in professional wrestling, is more than capable of doing so. He's done it before.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Please don't suggest that Triple H is beyond seeking help when he needs it, or that he is uncomfortable with having guys help him with an agenda. And that was back when he was in his prime of his active career. As he transforms more fully into a former wrestler, he'll be even more receptive to it.

Regarding Triple H's age, I've already touched on this, but I don't see his age being an issue at all. He doesn't have to be a full fledged heel figurehead tomorrow. He's already started the progression into a figurehead character, and he's got plenty of time to develop the character in any of a number of ways. Laurinaitis is 46, and he's a pretty good heel authority character these days, although admittedly nowhere near where Vince was or where Triple H will be. I'm simply saying you can be an effective heel authority figure in your 40's.

I don't think people became sick of Vince in his role, I just think the time came that he no longer wanted to do it, and it was no longer necessary at this stage of the game. And I don't think people will tire of Triple H in this role as quickly as you suggest either, because these types of characters are always in a state of flux. Suggesting that Triple H will be under the gun for 50+ years is a gross overstatement and you know it. Triple H is more than capable of developing this heel figurehead character and sustaining it for an extended period of time. And if this is the direction they in fact go in, it will be a resounding success, one which supersede the efforts of Vincent Kennedy McMahon.

 

[Stormtrooper]

There's absolutely no doubt about it, Triple H is a true legend in the business of professional wrestling. I can't really see how that's a bad thing as he transitions gradually from a full time wrestler into an authority figure, a figurehead along the same lines as Vince McMahon (only better). I also don't see people "clamoring" for him to assume this authority persona. I think this can and will occur gradually. After all, as you concede on a couple of occasions, Triple H is still quite young. Time is on his side to develop the character he evolves into gradually, and to nurture and develop it as other superstars emerge along the way to oppose him. Now that he is no longer a full time wrestler, I think he can begin the process, in fact as we all know, he already has, albeit as a face at the moment. This can change as time marches on, as his character continues to develop.

The problem with what you're saying is that his character has had a decade and a half to develop. He has been with WWE since 1995, and his character has developed over time. This again goes with what I mentioned earlier about him being young hurting him. The fans are getting sick and tired of Triple H already, and want the younger people to be taking the reigns. They ALWAYS prefer the new guy over the currently established guy. And you think Triple H will be able to get more over then Mr. McMahon? It's hard to get over more then the most over heel authority figure in history when the fans want you to go away.

I agree with the idea of exploiting real life situations, or at least the fans' perceptions of them, to blur the lines of kayfabe and reality and hence bring added dimensions to character development. Sure, Vince did so, but Triple H can as well. Let's face it, Vince McMahon is going to step down eventually, and hand the reigns of his company over to his son in law and daughter. That's reality. We all know it will happen, it's just a question of when and how. So if exploited properly, this can be the ultimate blend of reality and kayfabe which can build the heel persona of HHH extremely well. A power hungry couple of greedy self centered personalities, taking Vince's company from him. How's that for exploitation of reality, or at least a perception of it?

Using real life to build a character? How's this:

Paul Levesque and Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley are married in real life, and have children together. That's reality. And this real life union can be exploited into the development of the heel boss persona that HHH can employ to supersede the character of his father in law. Again, the power couple taking over and running the company by their own whims and desires.

They have already used Triple H being married to the family back in 2009, and have kept using it ever since. It hasn't gotten him any more over.


And there is a HUGE difference between Triple H and Stephanie being married and the Montreal Screwjob. It wasn't just that the screwjob was a real life story that made the Mr. McMahon character work. The Screwjob (and “Bret Screwed Bret”) is the birth of the Mr. McMahon character. It is a case of art being born out of real life; and the real life actions of Vince McMahon creating massive heat with the fans (which McMahon smartly utilized by becoming a character on-air). The marriage is just a real life story that adds no captivating aspects to the Triple H character.

Sure, a heel character of this nature, whether it be Vince or Triple H, needs a strong rival. When the Screwjob went down and the whole SCSA versus Mr. McMahon thing was born, it was effective. But in 1996, there was no Rattlesnake. There was this guy:


No one could have foreseen in 1996 that this dude would stand out and become such a critical character in the progression of the heel character of Mr. McMahon. So how do we know that there isn't someone else, whether it be an underutilized existing talent, or someone not even there yet, who could step up to be a chief antagonist to the heel character of Mr. Levesque? I'm not suggesting there's another Stone Cold out there, as he's one of a kind. But there still could be someone significant to rise up and stand out and help advance HHH beyond the standard set by McMahon. After all, Triple H is still young, you said so yourself. Lots of time to find a chief antagonist for him.

Could another Anti-hero the likes of Stone Cold come along again? Of course. Except there is no one even close to that level right now, and Triple H is already an overexposed character, having dominated WWE TV for almost 20 years. By the time a new Anti-hero emerges, the Triple H character would have run its course and the fans would want something else. And Anti-heroes are very hard to find in PG-Era television. It's not easy to be a Stone Cold like Blue-Collar anti-hero when you can't curse, bleed, etc. WWE in the late 90's had much more leeway, allowing Stone Cold to be that type of character.

And I don't buy the suggestion that Cena cannot be a significant opponent for Triple H, and a significant component to the progression of his character. Cena has opposed the boss before. He's done it to McMahon. He's doing it right now with Laurinaitis. And who better to oppose a ruthless boss who is drunk on power, than a super face and the true face of the entire organization? Especially if that guy is threatening to set the record for most heavyweight championships, something that the heel boss covets and once seemed destined to achieve. Pure gold for the development and progression of the character beyond that achieved by Vince.

And Cena vs. Mr. McMahon was pretty meh at best (it never went far, as it led pretty quick to Vince getting fired), and Cena vs. Laurinaitis has been lackluster so far too. Hence why Cena vs. Triple H-McMahon would be meh too. The fans don't want Cena fighting authority figures, they want Cena fighting champions.

Are you suggesting that Triple H is beyond seeking help from some other guys to facilitate his desires and support his agendas? Because I'm sure he, like anyone else in such a position in professional wrestling, is more than capable of doing so. He's done it before.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Please don't suggest that Triple H is beyond seeking help when he needs it, or that he is uncomfortable with having guys help him with an agenda. And that was back when he was in his prime of his active career. As he transforms more fully into a former wrestler, he'll be even more receptive to it.

You would likely notice that the point of Evolution and DX was for Triple H to keep the championship. As an authority figure, he would need to get people below his stature to work with him to try and oust his rival. Triple H is better then whoever he throws in his way. That's why it wouldn't work as well as Mr. McMahon. Mr. McMahon know he wasn't the best guy for the job, so he got a bunch of people to work for him. The fans wouldn't buy Triple H not fighting his own battle.


Lets put it this way. The McMahon/Austin feud (which is what made Mr. McMahon stay over for so long) lasted three years. Triple H will never be able to have a feud with any one rival that long, because he would have had to get involved way before then. Why? Because he's Triple f'n H, arguably a Top-5 All-Time WWE Superstar.

Regarding Triple H's age, I've already touched on this, but I don't see his age being an issue at all. He doesn't have to be a full fledged heel figurehead tomorrow. He's already started the progression into a figurehead character, and he's got plenty of time to develop the character in any of a number of ways. Laurinaitis is 46, and he's a pretty good heel authority character these days, although admittedly nowhere near where Vince was or where Triple H will be. I'm simply saying you can be an effective heel authority figure in your 40's.

So what you're saying is that since it has never been done before, there's reason for Triple H to reach McMahon levels of over-ness? That's a bit weird. Laurinaitis has failed, every other under-50 Authority figure has failed. So now Triple H will succeed? It won't happen. Especially with a guy like Triple H, who has been over-exposed for years now.

I don't think people became sick of Vince in his role, I just think the time came that he no longer wanted to do it, and it was no longer necessary at this stage of the game. And I don't think people will tire of Triple H in this role as quickly as you suggest either, because these types of characters are always in a state of flux. Suggesting that Triple H will be under the gun for 50+ years is a gross overstatement and you know it. Triple H is more than capable of developing this heel figurehead character and sustaining it for an extended period of time. And if this is the direction they in fact go in, it will be a resounding success, one which supersede the efforts of Vincent Kennedy McMahon.

So thinking that Triple H will end up being on TV for 50 years is an overstatement? He would have to be with the company at the age of 75 at that point. I can see him still being there at that age. Definitely at 65. So that would be 40 years. Nobody has been with one company for 40 years and reached that level of over-ness.








One more thing. You bring up an idea about how Triple H can surpass McMahon levels of heat. You suggest he pretty much becomes a heel authority figure while getting title wins and/or preventing Cena from getting the title, feuds with The Undertaker and ends the streak; feuds with Shawn Michaels, then a returning Shane McMahon. So you think the fans will want Triple H feuding with John Cena again? The fans want fresh faces, they don't want retreads from 7 years ago. Triple H feuded with Cena in the mid 2000's, not in the mid 2010's. The fans won't give Triple H more heat, they'll give other channels more viewers. Give the fans something now, not re-hashed from the past. If the fans want something from the past, sell them a DVD.

 

[hatehabsforever]

The problem with what you're saying is that his character has had a decade and a half to develop. He has been with WWE since 1995, and his character has developed over time. This again goes with what I mentioned earlier about him being young hurting him. The fans are getting sick and tired of Triple H already, and want the younger people to be taking the reigns. They ALWAYS prefer the new guy over the currently established guy. And you think Triple H will be able to get more over then Mr. McMahon? It's hard to get over more then the most over heel authority figure in history when the fans want you to go away.

The character of Triple H the wrestler has had over 15 years to develop. Over this period of time, his character has evolved, been molded, and been sculpted into a sure fire Hall of Fame career. As a figurehead character, not so much. We've only just begun to see the development of Triple H the executive character, and what we have seen has been a face variety, a guy operating in the best interests of the company, or at least attempting to. The heel figurehead persona of Triple H that can and will surpass the legacy of Vince McMahon, we have yet to really see it. The guy who will truly take over the company, in reality and in kayfabe, when Vince eventually gets replaced at the helm, he's not been seen yet. The man who will be drunk with power, who will be the one to put Vince out to pasture, who will assume control of the company (with the billionaire princess at his side), and run it in his own best interests, pitting the welfare of Triple H over the interests of the WWE, I don't think the fans could possibly be sick of this guy yet, because he hasn't emerged yet. We have not yet seen the heel figurehead HHH in full control of a company truly devoid of Vince. Once we do, it will be the beginning of Triple H replacing Vince McMahon as the better figurehead character.

By the way, you're being a little inconsistent here. On one side, you say that Triple H being a young guy is a bad thing. Then you go on to say that the fans want a young guy taking the reigns. I don't accept for one second that the fans always prefer the new guy over the established one, that simply isn't true, in fact I think the total reverse is more accurate. And I think you are letting some of your personal biases creep in here. I don't think the fans are sick and tired of Triple H and want him to go away. I think Stormtrooper may feel this way, but I don't think that would be a consensus of the fans. And they certainly don't want the evil heel figurehead version to simply go away, as in reality, he hasn't even arrived yet.

They have already used Triple H being married to the family back in 2009, and have kept using it ever since. It hasn't gotten him any more over.

But they've never really run with it because ultimately, Vince is still there and as such any efforts of Triple H are ultimately overshadowed by the head of he company. Only once Vince goes away permanently, at the hands of the heel figurehead HHH, in conjunction with his bride, can we truly assess now significant and successful this angle can be. And I maintain that once WWE is truly committed to it and runs with it, it will be very successful.

And there is a HUGE difference between Triple H and Stephanie being married and the Montreal Screwjob. It wasn't just that the screwjob was a real life story that made the Mr. McMahon character work. The Screwjob (and “Bret Screwed Bret&#8221 is the birth of the Mr. McMahon character. It is a case of art being born out of real life; and the real life actions of Vince McMahon creating massive heat with the fans (which McMahon smartly utilized by becoming a character on-air). The marriage is just a real life story that adds no captivating aspects to the Triple H character.

I disagree. The Screwjob is a real life scenario that made the evil Mr. McMahon character work, and was the birth of this character. Similarly, Triple H taking over the company, alongside Stephanie, will also be a real life scenario, which will make the new Triple H character work. And this will be the birth of a new version of Triple H: the heel figurehead persona, the corrupt boss who puts his own interests over those of the WWE. We haven't really seen this character yet. We've seen rampant IWC speculation that backstage familial factors give HHH a cushier position than he truly deserves; now we'll get to see these speculations play out, which will be a sure fire success.

Could another Anti-hero the likes of Stone Cold come along again? Of course. Except there is no one even close to that level right now, and Triple H is already an overexposed character, having dominated WWE TV for almost 20 years. By the time a new Anti-hero emerges, the Triple H character would have run its course and the fans would want something else. And Anti-heroes are very hard to find in PG-Era television. It's not easy to be a Stone Cold like Blue-Collar anti-hero when you can't curse, bleed, etc. WWE in the late 90's had much more leeway, allowing Stone Cold to be that type of character.

Likewise, there was no one even close to the level of Stone Cold Steve Austin in 1996, when the Ringmaster happened along. Yet, in 1997, we saw the ascension of the greatest superstar in WWE history. Purely mindless speculation to suggest outright that there's no one close at the moment. The transformation of the Million Dollar Champion into the Rattlesnake could never have been predicted, and such could happen again.

And Triple H being an overexposed character who has run his course, more Stormtrooper personal opinions and biases. Because remember, the version of Triple H That I speculate about, we've yet to fully see him.

You would likely notice that the point of Evolution and DX was for Triple H to keep the championship. As an authority figure, he would need to get people below his stature to work with him to try and oust his rival. Triple H is better then whoever he throws in his way. That's why it wouldn't work as well as Mr. McMahon. Mr. McMahon know he wasn't the best guy for the job, so he got a bunch of people to work for him. The fans wouldn't buy Triple H not fighting his own battle.

Not buying this stuff at all. The point of DX and Evolution was to give Triple H some numbers and some muscle to achieve what he wanted, which in his active wrestling days, was maintaining championships. And by surrounding himself with allies in similar manner as the evil figurehead, as heels in authority positions have historically always done, he can do a similar thing, to maintain control of his company and run it in the manner he sees fit for his own selfish purposes.

Lets put it this way. The McMahon/Austin feud (which is what made Mr. McMahon stay over for so long) lasted three years. Triple H will never be able to have a feud with any one rival that long, because he would have had to get involved way before then. Why? Because he's Triple f'n H, arguably a Top-5 All-Time WWE Superstar.

Triple H won't need just one feud for three years with one guy, as he's got plenty of significant feuds ready to go, as seen in my opening post. And unlike McMahon,Triple H, over and above his various opponents, will have something Vince never had: one main ally:

Tremendous mileage can be achieved in the combined efforts of the power couple. Can be and will be. And as I said earlier, Triple H being a top five superstar is irrelevant to how he will evolve into a heel figurehead, where he'll be the top one. Triple H is in a unique position, and when Vince is finally out of the picture at the hands of The Game, we'll get to see just how interesting and effective this can be.

So what you're saying is that since it has never been done before, there's reason for Triple H to reach McMahon levels of over-ness? That's a bit weird. Laurinaitis has failed, every other under-50 Authority figure has failed. So now Triple H will succeed? It won't happen. Especially with a guy like Triple H, who has been over-exposed for years now.

That's not what I'm saying at all. Not so much that it hasn't been done before, as much as it couldn't have been done before, simply because, no one has had the unique combination of factors to be able to do what Triple H will be able to do. Laurinaitis, Bischoff, or whoever else, they don't have the combination of family connection, experience, charisma, mic skills, and fan friction that Hunter will ultimately have. The fact that he has all of this at his disposal, and knows how to use it, will be why he will be able to supersede Vince, when no one else could.

So thinking that Triple H will end up being on TV for 50 years is an overstatement? He would have to be with the company at the age of 75 at that point. I can see him still being there at that age. Definitely at 65. So that would be 40 years. Nobody has been with one company for 40 years and reached that level of over-ness.

All irrelevant. Whether it be 40 years, 50, or more, it's not the point. Because his tenure as an active wrestler will be separate and distinct from his time as figurehead of the company. He won't have to sustain the heel persona that long at all.

One more thing. You bring up an idea about how Triple H can surpass McMahon levels of heat. You suggest he pretty much becomes a heel authority figure while getting title wins and/or preventing Cena from getting the title, feuds with The Undertaker and ends the streak; feuds with Shawn Michaels, then a returning Shane McMahon. So you think the fans will want Triple H feuding with John Cena again? The fans want fresh faces, they don't want retreads from 7 years ago. Triple H feuded with Cena in the mid 2000's, not in the mid 2010's. The fans won't give Triple H more heat, they'll give other channels more viewers. Give the fans something now, not re-hashed from the past. If the fans want something from the past, sell them a DVD.

John Cena feuded with the active wrestler Triple H in the mid 2000's, but he has never feuded with a Triple H heel figurehead persona simply because thus far, it has never existed, not fully. This won't be a retread, it will be a totally new version of their feud, except it will be even better. The fans can still receive their fresh faces, as the actions of the authority figure comprise only a percentage of the total show. But they can be fortunate enough to see a dominant heel figurehead Triple H become a focal point of the company and in doing so, replace Vince McMahon as the best figurehead WWE character of all time.

 

[Stormtrooper]

The character of Triple H the wrestler has had over 15 years to develop. Over this period of time, his character has evolved, been molded, and been sculpted into a sure fire Hall of Fame career. As a figurehead character, not so much. We've only just begun to see the development of Triple H the executive character, and what we have seen has been a face variety, a guy operating in the best interests of the company, or at least attempting to. The heel figurehead persona of Triple H that can and will surpass the legacy of Vince McMahon, we have yet to really see it. The guy who will truly take over the company, in reality and in kayfabe, when Vince eventually gets replaced at the helm, he's not been seen yet. The man who will be drunk with power, who will be the one to put Vince out to pasture, who will assume control of the company (with the billionaire princess at his side), and run it in his own best interests, pitting the welfare of Triple H over the interests of the WWE, I don't think the fans could possibly be sick of this guy yet, because he hasn't emerged yet. We have not yet seen the heel figurehead HHH in full control of a company truly devoid of Vince. Once we do, it will be the beginning of Triple H replacing Vince McMahon as the better figurehead character.

So he's been aroung for 17 years, but he has had no time to develop? Bullshit. He's the same character he was 3 years ago, he's just now a figurehead. His character has developed so damn much that he doesn't need too much more time developing.

By the way, you're being a little inconsistent here. On one side, you say that Triple H being a young guy is a bad thing. Then you go on to say that the fans want a young guy taking the reigns. I don't accept for one second that the fans always prefer the new guy over the established one, that simply isn't true, in fact I think the total reverse is more accurate. And I think you are letting some of your personal biases creep in here. I don't think the fans are sick and tired of Triple H and want him to go away. I think Stormtrooper may feel this way, but I don't think that would be a consensus of the fans. And they certainly don't want the evil heel figurehead version to simply go away, as in reality, he hasn't even arrived yet.

Bull fucking shit. I'm a Triple H mark, have been since DX in 1998. I just don't see him being as good as the single greatest Authority Figure in the history of Sports Entertainment. Don't go spewing shit you have no idea is true or not.

I have never been inconsistent. Triple H has a long way to to in his career as a figurehead, but he's not a young guy.

Triple H has been on TV for the past 17 years (since 1995 when he debuted in WWE). He's far from a young guy. Fans tend to want to see the young guys wrestling. Not Triple H hogging the program again. He hogged the TV time in 2002-2005, and everyone bitched and moaned constantly. Now you want him to hog the TV time, and feud with his friend Shawn Michaels (who retired back in 2010 only appearing VERY rarely ever since), The Undertaker (one match a year for the past 2 years, MAYBE another couple matches before he's done for good) and Shane McMahon (no longer associated with WWE, hasn't been for 2+ years now).

But they've never really run with it because ultimately, Vince is still there and as such any efforts of Triple H are ultimately overshadowed by the head of he company. Only once Vince goes away permanently, at the hands of the heel figurehead HHH, in conjunction with his bride, can we truly assess now significant and successful this angle can be. And I maintain that once WWE is truly committed to it and runs with it, it will be very successful.

Whatever he does very well may become successful. However, it won't be as successful as the perfect storm of Mr. McMahon vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin and the Attitude Era. It's impossible.

And they did run with Triple H running the show, and firing Mr. McMahon....
[YOUTUBE]obH6Wvunxas[/YOUTUBE]
Three Months Later this happened:

[YOUTUBE]vPx6OnLRIYA[/YOUTUBE]

Triple H already fired Vince. It didn't work. Why on earth would it work now?

I disagree. The Screwjob is a real life scenario that made the evil Mr. McMahon character work, and was the birth of this character. Similarly, Triple H taking over the company, alongside Stephanie, will also be a real life scenario, which will make the new Triple H character work. And this will be the birth of a new version of Triple H: the heel figurehead persona, the corrupt boss who puts his own interests over those of the WWE. We haven't really seen this character yet. We've seen rampant IWC speculation that backstage familial factors give HHH a cushier position than he truly deserves; now we'll get to see these speculations play out, which will be a sure fire success.

The difference is that the Montreal Screwjob was Vince being an asshole to Bret Hart, making the fans think he's an asshole, and treating McMahon as such. Any removal of Vince will be a relatively smooth transition that won't likely involve Triple H or Stephanie (it would involve the Board of Directors legit removing Vince, or Vince himself stepping down). Triple H and Stephanie are lower level executives, it's kinda hard for them to fire Vince in real life, since in actuality Vince can probably fire them.

Likewise, there was no one even close to the level of Stone Cold Steve Austin in 1996, when the Ringmaster happened along. Yet, in 1997, we saw the ascension of the greatest superstar in WWE history. Purely mindless speculation to suggest outright that there's no one close at the moment. The transformation of the Million Dollar Champion into the Rattlesnake could never have been predicted, and such could happen again.

It's even worse mindless speculation to suggest that there is someone there now to help elevate Triple H, since guys like them come just once or twice in a lifetime.

And Triple H being an overexposed character who has run his course, more Stormtrooper personal opinions and biases. Because remember, the version of Triple H That I speculate about, we've yet to fully see him.

Again, if it were personal opinions, I would have been debating the other side. I'm going based on facts and logic.

And we've seen this Triple H already. He fired Vince in July. And we've seen the Heel Triple H already, he hogged the TV time from 2002-2005 and “held back” Kane, RVD, Booker T, Chris Benoit, and everyone else. And he was running RAW in 2000, during the McMahon/Helmsley Regime. That failed too.

Not buying this stuff at all. The point of DX and Evolution was to give Triple H some numbers and some muscle to achieve what he wanted, which in his active wrestling days, was maintaining championships. And by surrounding himself with allies in similar manner as the evil figurehead, as heels in authority positions have historically always done, he can do a similar thing, to maintain control of his company and run it in the manner he sees fit for his own selfish purposes.

So what you're saying is that Triple H has already done all of this? And when Triple H did this, he was hogging all the TV time and holding back other superstars? And fans tend to not want to see rehashes of old stuff, they'd rather see new stuff.

Thanks for falling into my trap.

Triple H won't need just one feud for three years with one guy, as he's got plenty of significant feuds ready to go, as seen in my opening post. And unlike McMahon,Triple H, over and above his various opponents, will have something Vince never had: one main ally:

Tremendous mileage can be achieved in the combined efforts of the power couple. Can be and will be. And as I said earlier, Triple H being a top five superstar is irrelevant to how he will evolve into a heel figurehead, where he'll be the top one. Triple H is in a unique position, and when Vince is finally out of the picture at the hands of The Game, we'll get to see just how interesting and effective this can be.

Oh yes, Your grand plan of bringing back all the old people that are either going to be
A: Ridiculously old by wrestling standards OR
B: Not affiliated with WWE

That's gonna work, or is even remotely possible.....



And besides, even if it was possible, TNA has already tried the "lets get all the old guys together, that'll be good" plan. It failed miserably.

And you keep bringing up Stephanie McMahon. I didn't realize the question was will Stephanie McMahon be a better Figurehead then Vince McMahon. And the combined efforts of 2 people really won't make Triple H better, it would make the McMahon/Helmsley Regime take 2 better.

All irrelevant. Whether it be 40 years, 50, or more, it's not the point. Because his tenure as an active wrestler will be separate and distinct from his time as figurehead of the company. He won't have to sustain the heel persona that long at all.

Again, it IS completely relevant. No figure has been in Sports Entertainment for that long and maintained their level of popularity. How can Triple H do it if it's never been done by anyone? Hulk Fucking Hogan isn't getting the same reactions now then he was back in the early 2000's. And he's a MUCH bigger star then Triple H. Stars fade after a while. It's a fact of life.

That's not what I'm saying at all. Not so much that it hasn't been done before, as much as it couldn't have been done before, simply because, no one has had the unique combination of factors to be able to do what Triple H will be able to do. Laurinaitis, Bischoff, or whoever else, they don't have the combination of family connection, experience, charisma, mic skills, and fan friction that Hunter will ultimately have. The fact that he has all of this at his disposal, and knows how to use it, will be why he will be able to supersede Vince, when no one else could.

Hulk Hogan has not been a success as a figurehead in TNA, has he? He has the same traits as Triple H, yet has not been a big success. So yeah, there actually has been a chance for it to work, and it didn't.

John Cena feuded with the active wrestler Triple H in the mid 2000's, but he has never feuded with a Triple H heel figurehead persona simply because thus far, it has never existed, not fully. This won't be a retread, it will be a totally new version of their feud, except it will be even better. The fans can still receive their fresh faces, as the actions of the authority figure comprise only a percentage of the total show. But they can be fortunate enough to see a dominant heel figurehead Triple H become a focal point of the company and in doing so, replace Vince McMahon as the best figurehead WWE character of all time.

They won't receive the fresh faces, because the feud is not John Cena vs. (insert fresh face here), it's John Cena vs. Triple H again. It's a retread of an old feud with a different guy wrestling for Triple H because he's not a full-time wrestler anymore.



You may have noticed something with all of your quotes. I have bolded the word HEEL. Why? Well, it's very simple, really. You keep assuming Triple H can be a great heel non-wrestler. That's not really gonna happen. His idol is a perfect example of why.

Ric Flair. The Nature Boy. In Evolution, they tried to make him a Heel. In TNA, they tried to make him a heel. Both times they it didn't work. Why? Because the fans don't want to boo legends. Triple H is easily on Ric Flairs level. The fans won't boo him. If the crowd will be mixed (some fans will blindly follow the creative direction of the show), then he won't be nearly as successful as Mr. McMahon.

 

[hatehabsforever]

With all due respect, Stormtrooper, I think you are largely missing the point which I am making. You continue to reiterate that Triple H has been in the WWE since the mid 90's, which is true. But you suggest that he has already undergone all of the character development over that time that he could, and that's absolutely untrue. Because the character of which I speak which will surpass the accomplishments of the great Vincent Kennedy McMahon is not the guy who has toiled in the WWE for the last 15+ years.

When I think of Triple H, I think of many things, because let's face it, he's wrestled for a long time. He's been heel and he's been face. He's been a solo competitor, he's been in tag teams, and he's been in factions. He's been in the title picture, and he's been removed from it. Hell, over the last few years, his character has assumed an authority figure status.

So when I think of Hunter, I think of:

Spoiler

The active wrestler functioning as a face, involved in the title picture.

There's also this:

Spoiler

The active wrestler as a heel, wielding the infamous sledgehammer.

Of course there's this:

Spoiler

You know, the famous tag team known as Degeneration X.

Let's not forget these:

Spoiler

Factions, of course.

This:

Spoiler

Triple H as an authority figure, albeit in a face capacity.

Lastly, there's this image of Triple H as the true head of the company, the guy who grabs the company by the crotch after the real and kayfabe end of Vince McMahon's time in the company, and takes it over fully and completely in a heel role.

Spoiler

Sorry, this image is not available because IT DOESN'T EXIST YET

This is the point you're missing here. We have never seen the Triple H that I am talking about, not since he began in 1995. I am talking about the Triple H who steps into the true authority role, in a full blown heel capacity, after Vince is truly gone, and everyone knows he's gone. Because let's be honest here, and we've both shown this video already:


This is not the Triple H that I am suggesting will supersede McMahon as the best figurehead in the WWE. This failed, because everyone knew it was not real. Everyone knew Vince was not really gone, and that in reality, he was still calling all the shots. This was pure kayfabe and as such, the fans never bought into it. Plus, it was a totally different character than the one who will overtake McMahon in infamy. In this video, we see the COO, operating on behalf of the Board of Directors, very reluctantly being the bearer of bad news from the Board. He's remorseful. He's near tears. He's apologetic. "I can't believe I'm about to say this". "I love you Pop". This is not the wishy washy guy who will accomplish what I've been suggesting he can.

The guy who will supplant McMahon will be brash and arrogant. No tears, no remorse. I've been waiting for this day for years, old man. You're time has come and gone, and it's all mine now. This is all contingent on McMahon truly being out of the company in reality for good, which has to happen sometime. A new era will begin, both in reality and kayfabe, and the Triple H I refer to will be born. And we haven't seen this guy at all over the last decade and a half, it will be brand new. This version, this one will work. It will be successful. And it will push Triple H as a figurehead character beyond what McMahon was able to achieve.

You say the fans want to see the younger guys in the ring, as opposed to Triple H (and I'll overlook your blatant inconsistencies regarding whether or not Triple H is young or old). I couldn't agree more. Because when the era I'm talking about commences, and the heel figurehead as above takes over both in reality and kayfabe, I actually expect to see very little of Triple H in the ring. HHH will be the authority figure, rarely getting his hands dirty in the process. He'll have guys doing his bidding for him. He'll have younger talent doing things he wants them to do, while he stays at arms length. Sure, he'll occasionally get involved, as did Vince, but for the most part, he'll be in segments of the show, but involved in very little of the action. So there'll be no hogging of TV time like he did as an active wrestler from 2002-2005. Because he won't be actively wrestling. I'm not suggesting, as you do, that he get directly and frequently involved.

I never suggested he would or should feud with HBK, that's you trying to distort my words. I suggested that they could bring HBK back in a storyline return, only to have Triple H orchestrate a plan to thwart it. I didn't suggest Taker would return to active duty; I simply suggested that a heel Triple H could have someone operating on his behalf get involved in trying to end the streak. And I don't expect Shane to actually come back, but a storyline where he supposedly plans to, but gets screwed over by Hunter, could do wonders in getting this new Triple H character some significant heel heat.

It won't be John Cena versus Triple H all over again. It will be John Cena versus someone of Triple H's choosing, trying to ensure that he doesn't set the record for number of heavyweight championships.

Let's not try to cloud the issue with TNA references. Realistically, TNA could have Triple H, John Cena, Vince McMahon, a Montreal Screwjob , and the kitchen sink at their disposal, and they'd likely fuck it all up anyway. So just because TNA can't get Hogan or Flair over as heel authority figures is irrelevant to the topic at hand. That's a product of the inept running of TNA, more so than being indicative of a storyline flaw. Heel Hogan couldn't get over in TNA. Neither could heel Flair. But a heel Triple H as I described above? Can get over without a doubt. And once he does so, he'll overtake Vince in infamy. Count on it.

Due to my anticipated work schedule tomorrow, I don't anticipate getting the opportunity to post again. That being said, I'll wrap it ip now.

[size=+2]Concluding Statements[/size]​

I certainly do not intend to detract from the tremendous character of the evil Mr. McMahon, who was clearly a pivotal figure in winning the Monday Night Wars, fueled largely by his interaction with the Rattlesnake. However, if the WWE approaches the situation properly, I maintain that Triple H can overtake him in infamy and become a better figurehead character than VKM was.

Vince McMahon cannot remain with WWE forever. When the end of his career occurs in reality, Triple H will be more than ready, from both a reality and a kayfabe perspective, to step into his shoes. If a full blown heel version of Triple H steps into this role, assuming ultimate control of Vince's company, and runs it from the perspective of furthering his own agendas, rather than from the WWE's perspective, he can produce a infamous character who can supersede the character of Mr. McMahon.

Triple H as a full heel figurehead has plenty at his disposal to utilize to elevate his character. He has his familial ties, most notably his real life marriage to the billionaire princess, which can be effectively exploited. He has plenty of rivals to utilize to get his character over. He has the perception of the fan base, especially the IWC, to further his character development even better.

Make no mistake about it, while Triple H has had an illustrious career over nearly the last two decades, we've never seen this version of him. He can reinvent his character, distancing it from the character he portrayed as an active wrestler. He's been around the business long enough to pull this off, and he's still young enough to have the time to wait for McMahon to truly depart for real, and to allow the continued evolution of his character for many years to come.

If the WWE has the courage to pursue this angle aggressively, and the patience to allow it to develop, I think we will definitely see Triple H supersede the accomplishments of Vince McMahon, and become the better figurehead character of the two. He'll truly show, in a different manner, that he is the King of Kings, that he is The Game, and that he is, indeed, that damn good.

 

[Stormtrooper]

IN CONCLUSION

Triple H is a legend in the world of Sports Entertainment. He is easily considered one of the best superstars of all time, and has literally done it all in the WWE. He has won countless Worlds Championships, he's been the focal point of the company for a few years, and he's even been an on-air Matchmaker TWICE (in 2000 during the McMahon/Helmsley Regime and in 2011 after “firing” Vince McMahon). As a member of the McMahon family (through marriage), he is bound to be the heir apparent to the on-air figurehead position currently being held by Mr. McMahon. I have no doubt that he will be a success as an on-air figurehead, as he has always been good at talking on the mic, and he knows the wrestling business maybe better then anyone. However, as I have proven already, he will NOT surpass Mr. McMahon. It's pretty much impossible.


Mr. McMahon was a major contributing factor to bringing a new Golden Age to Professional Wrestling. His ability as a figurehead to get the crowd to hate him, while getting his opponent over on a consistent basis has been literally unparalleled in this business. It's completely unfair to everything that Mr. McMahon accomplished to say without question that Triple H will surpass Mr. McMahon, which is what my opponent is saying.



My esteemed opponent in this debate wants you to think that Triple H will continue to develop and evolve as a figurehead. He says that being a heel that forces Vince McMahon out would be new and interesting for Triple H. Well, he did virtually that in 2000. He “married” Stephanie McMahon in late 1999, and then forced Vince out by getting Stephanie to align herself with him. Then while he was in Evolution, he pretty much had Eric Bischoff (the GM of RAW) in his back pocket for the duration of the stable. Thus, as a heel, Triple H HAS run RAW, and has done it identically to how hatehabs wants you to believe. AND when he did this, it was not NEARLY as successful as the Mr. McMahon character, which is why the WWE always runs right back to Mr. McMahon being in charge shortly after they give him a break.
​

 

[D-Man]

Nice work, guys.

Ok judges, let's get it done!

 

[CH David]

So I'm doing this on my phone because my computer crapped on me and I won't be at work until around the time this is due. If it looks shitty, that is why.

Clarity - I like the way Habs did his work better. ST did a good job, just personal preference in the layout goes to Habs. Also liked his post that had no quotes in his response.

Point - hatehabsforever

Punctuality - Neither guy was late, so I went with fastest response. I saw Habs got one in a little over three hours.

Point - hatehabsforever

Informative - No real information given, but I liked Habs plethora of pictures.

Point - hatehabsforever

Persuasion - I hate to say it for Habs because he did a nice job. He just did not say that Triple H will surpass Vince, only that he can. Trooper did a solid job in his own right, but that factor plays huge in my decision.

Points - Stormtrooper
.
CH David scores this hatehabsforever 3, Stormtrooper 2

 

[Dagger Dias]

Clarity: habs. His posts were more organized overall. The style was done very well and they were more enjoyable to read for that reason.

Punctuality: habs. He was faster.

Informative: habs. His pictures and videos helped fuel his argument although I do give Stormtrooper credit here too, he just came up a little short in this area.

Persuasive: habs. Both guys did an incredible job, but it came down to the closing arguments and I felt that habs was more convincing in his.

I score it as: habs 5, stormtrooper 0.

Fantastic debate, guys. The desire to compete must have been strong because it showed. Both of you did great in what was one of my favorite debates so far. My score might appear to say otherwise, but it really was very close when I was scoring.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Clarity- Stormtrooper's style really appealed to me. Way easier to read.

- Stormtrooper

Punctuation- Habs was a little faster.

-Hatehasforever

Informative- I just think Stormtrooper did more with the information he provided.

-Stormtrooper

Persuasion- I think ST nailed it.

Nate scores it Stormtrooper 4, Habs 1.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Clarity: habs because in his second post, Stormy abandoned the style he used throughout, thus disjointing it a wee bit. Yes, that's the lame reason otherwise I wouldn't have slit them.

Punctuation: habs was quicker.

Informative: habs brought more and while Stormy did well with what he had, habs made use of more stuff.

Persuasion: Stormtrooper used hard, basic fact to validate and back up his points. With habs is more of a speculation thing (or educated guessing). Trooper takes home the double whammy.

FunKay Scores It: hateshabs: 3, Stormtrooper: 2

 

[D-Man]

And the Loser's bracket has finally concluded as hatehabsforever defeats Stormtrooper by a score of 12-8!! He will move onto the 2012 Debater's League Championship to face off with the Winner's bracket champion... THE KILLJOY!!!