Let's be honest about who is/isn't watching.

[tvcolosi]

Some of the logic I've seen here and other places the last few years had be dumbfounded so I wanted to get some others opinions in the matter.

I have a unique for my age history of watching. I'm 30, so I would have been the prime target for both the last half of the Hogan run at ages 6-10 and during the attitude era, 13-18. Though as a kid I was aware of Hogan, Slaughter, Savage, Captain Lou (100% due to his starring in the Super Mario Bros Super Show) and so on but I wasnt a fan. Then in late 97 a friend who watched was trying to explain the "Monteal Screw Job" to me but I couldn't comprehend. Then as coincidence would have I was channel surfing that night and in the ring I see Slaughter, HBK, HHH, Chyna and a man who looked familiar. Ken Shamrock was in the ring and I was confused but curios about what he was doing. Not that he had on early 90s style acid wash jeans, not the 2x4 he was holding or the fact that he was standing there shirtless for no apparent reason. No, what caught my attention was the crowd clearly and loudly chanting "Bullshit". I'm 95% sure this was the night after but knowing now how they taped Raw, it's possible it was 8 days after the MSJ. From that point I have not missed an episode of Raw. So, if the product isn't entertaining you then by all means stop watching. It not that simple for most is seems.

Let me try a few analogies, I was the biggest fan of L&O SVU and 3-4 years ago Chris Merloni/Det. Stabler left the show after like 12-13 years. I watched the same as I did the first season and since then have tapered off now to catch about 25% of the new episodes. Fundamentally nothing on the show changed but to paraphrase some folks attitude, I'm not mad at NBC for not catering to exactly one man, myself wants.

What I don't get is the number of people who say they don't watch wrestling anymore but make that knowledge be known on literally the last website a non wrestling fan would visit.

Or comment on a main site article with "I really haven't cared what Jeff Hardy did in wrestling for 10 years now". Yet they took time to click on an article CLEARLY named "Jeff Hardy comments in how much longer he plans to wrestle".

Not to mention, the land of the most hardcore of the hardcore smarks, the message boards. Seems like an odd place to visit, read articles, sign up, post and come back to see who'd replied to you. I look at WWE, as far as viewing habits, more on the sport than entertainment because the live aspect creates the feeling if I don't watch this week that's the week something crazy I never thought would happen, happens.

As a Detroit Tigers fan that would be like writing off baseball because we were possibly the worst team from 95 to 05. Or saying since they have been one of the top teams the last 7-8 years that I shouldn't bother watching, the GM will find a way to blow it. I know this rambles a bit but I was on a roll...

So if this somewhat describes you, please reply and explain this rationale I see that, to me, makes little to no sense to me.

 

[MERPER]

Your post kind of confused me. I, too, am 30. I was really into WWE as a kid (Hoga, Hart, Warrior, etc.)... Jake the Snake is my favorite wrestler of all-time.

I took a break in high school a bit when I became more social and would rather have been hanging out with friends. I got back into it in college. Then left again post-college when I got a job and valued my time away from work more than watching wrestling. Things also got dull after the Attitude Era and I found things very boring.

I just returned over a year ago. I haven't been thrilled with the product at all but now I need something to watch.

 

[makeitvab]

I too, was slightly confused...

I started in 2002, think my favorite years were 2005-2008. Seemed like always had good shows, PPVs were fun, great eclectic mix of characters and there were a lot of believable main eventers.

Cena may have been forefront but at least guys were on his level, the whole show now is Authority/Cena/Brock w a few guys sniffing the top but there's still that invisible barrier between the rest.

Not to turn it into a "Brock run" thread, but having his only title matches be Cena truly buried the rest of the card. If Ziggler, Orton, Ambrose, Ryback etc at least got title matches and got a good 13-20 min w Lesnar it'd have done wonders. By only booking Cena it's made it apparent WWE only really sees him at Brock's level.

Hell other than Orton no one has even REQUESTED a god damn title match! Why does no one else want the belt and why are they ok w the champ never being there? They could have used that as a reason faces rallied against authority at S.Series. "you gave special contract to Brock and he gets paid top dollar to sit at home and never defend" while we get concussed and home sick working year round. That there is a feeling anyone who's worked and witnessed nepotism/special treatment first hand can rally behind and best of all it wouldn't be just scripted sentiment.

hrm... now I confused myself w point of this post....uh all of the above and then some are why I'm losing interest. Yes I want new blood, however there are guys who aren't new that are worth pushing...and then there's Roman Pinnochio who just wants to be a real boy despite his wooden acting and fairy tale background.

 

[lowandmighty]

I'm also around your same age, late 20's, nearly 30. I was one of the people who did the double take and switched to wcw when the nWo happened. I'd been a Hogan fan while he was in WWF, yes I was a bit young but I used to catch up with all the tapes and loved the golden era wrestlers.
I was an invested WWF fan though, I had the video games WWF Royal Ruble and WWF Raw and one of the early model replica belts which had a foam strap.

So even when Hogan went to WCW I still kept watching WWF during the "new generation" era. When I found out Hogan had become a bad guy, I just had to see and it was a tough decision because I'm a very loyal person but WCW was just doing it for me more. As a young kid I liked the kind of hero Hogan but as I got older, I found his heel antics hilarious.

At the time over on WWF, HBK was in dx and everything but he was still just HBK. The same ever since he kicked Janetti through the window.

Anyway, I, rambling. To answer the question I don't really watch anymore. I keep up to date with WWE.com and I watch it occasionally, but mostly I'm bored. I watch more for the eye candy of the divas than anything else these days.

I think they need more air time and I mean more in match air time.

A couple of years ago I bought survivor series because there was going to be a 7 on 7 diva match (also because I wanted Big Show to win the belt, bit of a Big Show fan).

The 7 on 7 diva match was garbage. They all got eliminated after 1 or 2 moves. I was really dissapointed because that was what got me to spend my money on it.

 

[tvcolosi]

It did get a little muddy. Mostly every where I go online I see nothing but negativity about the product, which is fine because wrestling is subjective. What really confuses me is how many times I read people saying in response to an article "that's why I stopped watching".

It's a little amusing how many people who don't watch wrestling signed up for accounts and make comments about the current product. They are what I've stared to call "wrestling hipsters". Now, I don't think everybody should be blindly positive but we should also understand that some segments are not made for your demographic. It would be impossible to book a show where everything speaks to all types of fans.

 

[Navi]

The way I see it is like this. Wrestling fans are a niche group, either you like the product or you don't. I have friends would wouldn't be caught dead watching what they call "men in tights". I have other friends who don't miss a single show.

For me personally I'm a lot older than most of the people on this site, and have been watching wrestling since the days of Maple Leaf Wrestling at the old Maple Leaf Gardens here in Toronto. When we had guys like Tiger Jeet Singh, Sweet Daddy Siki, a very young Ric Flair, Ricky the Dragon Steamboat and the Shiek.

Every once in awhile I'd get sick of it and stop watching for a year or so, but always came back. I think it was around the time of the Monday night wars, I had enough and said screw it, and it wasn't until my son got into it that I started watching again. Not all the time just when someone caught my interest. Two years ago the Shield showed up and that's what brought me back pretty much full time.

And that's it in a nutshell for me, I have to be interested in what's going on. To hell with this fantasy booking and hoping that this person will come back and defeat this person, I want the current roster to entertain me, and quite frankly I'm easily entertained.

I guess that's what I'm finding the problem with the product as it stands today, it's boring, it's the same old same old. It was always feuds between the same two people, but you didn't have all this filler and crap happening that we see today. In other words you didn't have to think about the product. It was based on the age old adage, good vs evil, and the good guy took at beating but always won in the end. I will probably always be a fan, might take a break every once in awhile, but a fan none the less.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I guess that's what I'm finding the problem with the product as it stands today, it's boring, it's the same old same old. It was always feuds between the same two people, but you didn't have all this filler and crap happening that we see today.

Often, that's true, and it's a product of the fact there's so much damn programming time to fill. Remember, when Monday Night Raw first began, it was a one-hour show emanating from the Manhattan Center.

One hour a week of original programming to fill! That had to be a hell of a lot easier than what they've stuck themselves with today, right?

Yet, we're the audience and we want to be entertained. Plus, there's the fact that so many folks find it "cool" to hate everything they see, often seeing themselves as unique rebels.....and when someone points out the inevitable "Why watch if you hate it so much?" they get plenty of flack for that.

The OP is asking us to be honest about who's watching/not watching? Fine, let's start by recognizing that many people who watch aren't fans of wrestling, but have been somehow convinced it's what "everyone" else is doing.....and man, if they think they have a chance to fit in with the crowd, they'll jump at the chance. During the Attitude Era, Vince McMahon & friends captured lightning in a bottle, giving the widespread impression that "everyone" was watching.....and as a result, a lot of people were tuning in, even though they didn't know Bret Hart from the Giant Gonzalez. Of course, a movement like that will always be temporary in nature, and the non-fans eventually move on.

Take Daniel Bryan. His technical skills aside, you watch an entire arena of people chanting "Yes!" and get the notion that everyone knows and loves little Danny.

Bullshit, I say. While many in the crowd know him, many others love only the audience participation aspects of what they're seeing because, once again, doing what everyone else is doing gives folks a sense of bliss that can't be beat. WWE is happy to cater to this, since it makes Bryan look like a folk hero.....and to many wrestling fans, he is.

Still, even with all the hours of original stuff the writers need to create each week, I marvel at how much they actually do come up with. One example: the apparent animosity between mega-heels Seth Rollins and Brock Lesnar? There's nothing old & boring about that. In fact, when you look at what they've been doing the past week or so, you wonder exactly which one to root for. Or, you wonder why they're at odds in the first place; pondering how the acrimony between Seth & Brock is going to affect John Cena, the third entity in the title match. There's a lot to think about, no?

The Creative people are constantly coming up with stuff like this; stuff that makes most of us wonder and want to tune in next week to watch the story develop, which is just what the company wants us doing, right?

Whenever the WWE creative folks are able to get viewers interested enough to start following these storylines....they're hooked, much like a soap opera on TV.

That's the goal, and achieving it is the aim of everyone who produces entertainment programming.....sports or not.

 

[makeitvab]

One hour a week of original programming to fill! That had to be a hell of a lot easier than what they've stuck themselves with today, right?

Oh no, those POOR souls who decided to make 7-8 hours of content a week and can only write maybe 2 hours of content total. Wah, don't bite off more than you can chew, start accepting input from wrestlers/allowing them to come up w stuff on own and the work load is lightened.

Plus, there's the fact that so many folks find it "cool" to hate everything they see, often seeing themselves as unique rebels
The OP is asking us to be honest about who's watching/not watching? Fine, let's start by recognizing that many people who watch aren't fans of wrestling, but have been somehow convinced it's what "everyone" else is doing.....and man, if they think they have a chance to fit in with the crowd, they'll jump at the chance.
Take Daniel Bryan. His technical skills aside, you watch an entire arena of people chanting "Yes!" and get the notion that everyone knows and loves little Danny.

^That there may be the most cuntdescending diatribe I've ever seen. So if you're dissatisfied with the product you're a hipster, and people only chant YES to be part of the crowd. My god your view on the world is warped Sally "Hey let's ridicule actual people but become the internet white knight to a company", I'm confused are you actually Stephanie McMahon bc you spend more time servicing WWE creative than the a****ementioned individual.

Still, even with all the hours of original stuff the writers need to create each week, I marvel at how much they actually do come up with. One example: the apparent animosity between mega-heels Seth Rollins and Brock Lesnar? There's nothing old & boring about that. In fact, when you look at what they've been doing the past week or so, you wonder exactly which one to root for. Or, you wonder why they're at odds in the first place; pondering how the acrimony between Seth & Brock is going to affect John Cena, the third entity in the title match. There's a lot to think about, no?

No Sally, it really isn't, hell I'll paraphrase Seth Rollins from the closing moments of Mondays Raw "You just described the psychological mechanics of every triple threat w 2 heels". Shit this isn't even a new concept for JOHN CENA being the only good guy against 2 baddies in a triple threat, that's his bread and butter.

"why they're at odds" Well uhm.. I dunno, could it be that big piece of metal and status symbol Brock Lesnar brings with him to Raw?

 

[Rip]

I'm about to turn 30, I've been watching since the late '80s. I've been following websites and forums like this since the late 90's. I stopped watching in only the last few years. However, I'm still following what's going on online so I can jump back in to see big things like when Sting made his debut, or when The Rock returned, or big matches like Rock vs Cena or Lesnar vs HHH. I'll also download PPVs if something major happens or someone I like had a really good match.

That said, after living through the Hogan era, the New Generation, the Monday Night Wars (I watched both shows) and all of the '00s, these new guys that are coming up... I'm sorry they just suck. I mean sure, Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, John Cena... these guys all stand out because they're surrounded by garbage. That doesn't make them good. The wrestlers that are considered good today don't hold a candle to so many past wrestlers. A lot of these guys, The Shield, Cesaro, Wyatt... the ones considered the "future" by many, these guys would never have been successful back then. They SEEM really good because the business as a whole is suffering so badly from lack of talent. The bar is just SO LOW. Back in the day, wrestlers were larger than life, Titans, warriors, characters at the least. Now they just find young athletes, put them through the WWE training system, don't let them hone their craft all over the world and get experience, then give them a ridiculous name as if from some modern name generator, then shove them on TV. Each guy the same as the last. Then they walk around on egg shells backstage, all of them too afraid to lose their jobs to really try and stand out (CM Punk being an exception to that)

I guess ultimately I'm spoiled by having been a fan through the eras where the rosters, and the business, were STACKED with talent. Guys like Flair, Hogan, Savage, Perfect, Warrior, Vader, Sting, Goldberg, Hart, HBK, HHH, Angle, Lesnar, Stone Cold, Rock... nobody has debuted in the last 10-12 years that can shine their boots. When guys like Stone Cold and Rock make a cameo, it just reminds me every time that these guys today are just boring.

The entire WWE is so corporate and robotic now, shoving terms like "9.99" and "WWE Universe" down our throats every freaking night, and they seem to have their interests in music, movies and other shows like "Legends House" or "Total Divas" that somewhere along the way I feel like they forgot about a little something called "WRESTLING".

 

[George Steele's Barber]

It did get a little muddy. Mostly every where I go online I see nothing but negativity about the product, which is fine because wrestling is subjective. What really confuses me is how many times I read people saying in response to an article "that's why I stopped watching".

It's a little amusing how many people who don't watch wrestling signed up for accounts and make comments about the current product. They are what I've stared to call "wrestling hipsters". Now, I don't think everybody should be blindly positive but we should also understand that some segments are not made for your demographic. It would be impossible to book a show where everything speaks to all types of fans.

Is this the post that triggered your thread?

When I started watching wrestling, if someone got hit with a chair, they were carried out on a stretcher. Now, you don't have a match without 2 or 3 chair shots. Blood was censored out with an X the size of the TV screen. Now, I wouldn't be surprised to see blood in a backstage promo, I won't even get started on the differences in today's promos and the ones from my generation...

It sounds like criticism you may have seen eight years ago.

This is the internet. There is no bouncer at the door. It is a breeding ground for people who can't find the number for customer service. People come here to complain and jerk off. They want someone to care or listen but don't care if they are off or on base. I'm guilty of it too some times, because in the end there is little holding of accountability on the internet. You can say as you please.

Again, I'm guilty of it too. I try to be educated in some way with my opinions that I provide but it is not like I have seen every minute of every show I comment on. Then again, some times it takes not watching a show or not reading dirt sheet rumors to not get caught up in the markdom and understand what WWE or TNA are trying to do.

 

[MERPER]

The issue really amounts to the PG element of the product combined with a roster lacking in talent and ability to work a mic and pull off these storylines.

If this roster was doing attitude-era stuff, it would still be entertaining. As it stands, and with WWE in total kid-mode mentality, their lack of talent/depth and inability to have major entertainment factor is a killer.

Until some guys on the roster turn into stars or WWE realizes it can find a happy medium between current PG level and attitude era level we're left with awfulness.

 

[rmp0012002]

I'm a fan of wrestling not the WWE, especially in its current form. I grew up in a different era and have no problem saying that the current product is crap. I was a big WWWF/WWF fan from about '79 to when Backlund lost the belt and Hogan came in as it signaled a change from entertaining wrestling to entertainment with some wrestling thrown in. It was not what drew me to the sport. I was also at the end of high school so other things took up my time.
Luckily I was able to view the major NWA promotions like MACW and CWF and fell in love with that style. When those promotions were combined by Crockett and then bought by Turner it started to turn to a more soap opera style and I turned away from that.
I will rarely watch Raw and would never buy a PPV or The Network. I go on the various boards to see how all the promotions are doing but with most boards being WWE-centric it's hard. I've been a fan for 35 years and always will be but I just can't watch three hours of cartoon characters and advertisements put in a Days of our lives format.
I choose to watch or not watch what I want but never force my opinion on others. If the product is what you like, enjoy.

 

[ECPirate37]

I think your post could have been better worded, but I get where you are going. I, too, am often confused by how many people will go to an article, and bash whatever it is about, even if it has nothing to do with what the person is into.

The best example is WWE vs TNA marks. I like reading articles about both, and although I think TNA has better wrestling, I do not ever put down WWE because I am a fan of wrestling. But no matter which message you click on, someone from the other side goes to it.

To use your other sports analogy, to me that would be like them going to all 31 other sites of NFL teams they don't like to write, "Your team sucks. Your team should be contracted!" just because they do not like them. If you do no like WWE, why even read articles about WWE? If you do not like TNA, why read the TNA articles just to bash? It seems like a waste of time to me.

Thanks for this thread!

 

[dman1373]

It did get a little muddy. Mostly every where I go online I see nothing but negativity about the product, which is fine because wrestling is subjective. What really confuses me is how many times I read people saying in response to an article "that's why I stopped watching".

It's a little amusing how many people who don't watch wrestling signed up for accounts and make comments about the current product. They are what I've stared to call "wrestling hipsters". Now, I don't think everybody should be blindly positive but we should also understand that some segments are not made for your demographic. It would be impossible to book a show where everything speaks to all types of fans.

It looks like fit the criteria of a so called "wresting hipster"......i stopped watching raw regularly since wrestlemania 29 maybe...it just was not enjoyable to sit through the majority of it to catch 30 mins( on a good week)of good tv. You can say this or that part isnt for your demo but thats a bullshit exuse for writing a shitty show. I mean is finding nemo made for my demographic.....no, but its a great movie written well. And the reason I go on this website is so I know when some good shit is happening or to discuss backstage shit which is always fun. So still enjoy wrestling......I just dont watch raw smackdown ( havent watched since like 2010) or most of wwes ppvs. I have been watching some new japan though.

 

[MERPER]

The truth of the matter is, if WWE doesn't figure it out soon and numbers continue to dip in ratings and crowds aren't into it than they should make certain shows geared towards kids and others geared to a mix/adults.

They can split RAW/Smackdown along those lines and even increase exposure on WWE Network.

Make certain shows that have the funny characters and meaningless stories so I know not to watch but kids and their parents are fine with it.

Make others where I know, as an adult, I'm going to see stuff worthy of HBO/Showtime... some foul language, crazy stuff all the time and women's lingerie and bra & panties matches.

Each segment of the audience will know what to watch and can decide what's suitable for them.

 

[rmp0012002]

I think Vince is stuck with his current product and sadly that's the way he wants it. He went the mainstream kids soap opera route and it's really hard to push a tough edgier show that can't be marketed to kids without hurting the bottom line.
Once Vince killed Kayfabe, even though mostly everyone knew it was scripted, it also killed off a group of your fanbase that you can never get back. With Kayfabe it was still looked at as an athletic competition but once you have angles like midget Bulls beating 300lb guys and wrestling bunnies you have already blurred the sport.
The other problem is that fans know and like to know who the winners are of a card two months from now. I like discussing what occurred after a card but I don't want to know the results before I see it.

 

[whoopin' ass]

Up until a couple years ago, I watched wwe a lot and had for years. But since then I have cut way back and haven't watched a full episode in over a year. I will catch the odd thing now and then but have no interest in the wwe product despite there being people on there I like. I got tired of the dumb storylines, people being pushed over others that the crowd clearly likes and the general Cena being untouchable bit. Despite people coming and going, Cena, Orton and HHH still are the centre of the show and that was boring 5 years ago. I like that they are bringing in new talent but I don't want to see Reigns come in and just take over Cena's spot of being the top untouchable guy which seems to be their solution.

I do however watch TNA. I think there are issues but I generally find the product more interesting than wwe. It's a bit of a pain now since they have no tv deal in Canada but one I can work around.

 

[CotterHavok]

I'm 34 and started watching WWF in 85, quit watching around 92, then switched to WCW with the first Nitro. I stayed with WCW to the end never missing a single Nitro or Thunder. When WCW was bought out, refused to go back to what I considered a second rate product. I wasn't big on attitude. I started watching again about a month before they became WWE then stopped again 03-06. Came back in late 06 but never bothered with Smackdown! Over the last year I've only been waTching RAW about every other week. Creative sucks, Vince needs to retire and they need to build more true main eventers. Oh, and while I'm far from a fan of Cena, I don't hate him either but he really, really, really needs to ale a character change because he's boring as all hell.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

People who bitch about wrestling act like they're the first person to ever do it. My grandpa watched wrestling for a long time. In like 1996 he stopped (it was new to me) and he said "it's the same shit as it's always been. I'm gonna kick your ass, you're gonna kick mine, we're fighting this sunday".

Wrestling gets old. There is only so much you can do in 100 years with no off seasons. They've been able to dress things up differently. Once you've seen it for a few years, you've pretty much seen how it works. Occasionally something somewhat new comes along, but not really. Even in the attitude era, you still had heel and baby faces. The only thing that changed was that a squeaky clean nice guy pissed fans off and angry vulgar guys made them cheer. Cena is probably the most revolutionary character of my lifetime. Not necessarily the way his character acts, but the way he's booked. It's very "reality". This is who he is. His squeaky clean attitude pisses off some of the audience and they boo him (and he plays it up with an almost smug smile). The rest loves him for it (and he plays this up as well). He's simultaneously a truly hated heel and truly loved baby face. Not a "tweener" which is IWC speak for anti hero/badass baby face and not a real thing.

The IWC in general just likes to bitch. They seem to think it makes them look smart or edgy. I've been on forums since 2002, a fan since 1995. In the late 90s, wrestling fans at that time were bitching about how there's too much vulgarity, talking, and tithes and not enough wrestling. Ever since then everyone finds something to bitch about. It's just how it goes.

Fact is, they love wrestling and love wrestling fans. They're trying way too hard to look smart and not trying at all in admitting they liked the show. Like all the absolutely ridiculous "worst rumble ever" statements on social media. Really? Because the show had possibly the best triple threat of all time. The Rumble was entertaining. The show itself was great until the last 10-15 minutes when they screwed up. Not at all "worst ever" but that's just how wrestling fans are.



Ultimately, fans don't know that they don't know anything. "So and so is a technical wrestler" really? How the fuck do you know? You're not a pro wrestler. You don't know how things are supposed to be done. So from an in ring stand point, no one is qualified to judge technique. As someone with both an economics degree and a business degree, the level of business illiteracy on here is also amazing. "Ratings ratings RATINGZ" is all you hear. Guess what, cable will be dead in 10 years. Ratings measures cable viewers. Stop giving a shit about ratings. You need way more metrics than just that.

So between trying to sound smart, not actually being educated, and this culture of "you have to bitch about everything" that's their logic. Mental immaturity. No one has the balls to say they enjoy something they spend hours watching and even more hours commenting on. Which sounds insane considering I hate the real housewives of new jersey, I don't watch the show, I don't go to their live appearances and boo them, I don't go to their message boards and talk about how much I hate it. I just don't think about it or do anything that involves them.

 

[Wald]

I've been a fan since around 1988/89 and I haven't watched a full Raw in about five years. Just don't have the time to watch that show considering half of it (at least) is throwaway filler.

I'm in Ireland so what I do is read the spoilers on a Tuesday morning and go watch whatever segment interests me. Sometimes that's three segments, sometimes it's none.

I haven't watched Smackdown in years either but I do watch NXT