Kevin Kelly's Recent Article

[aliasv2]

Kevin Kelly states the foreigners will never be household names...sorry but this is completely wrong, was he smoking some funny grass whilst writing it?

One example is The British Bulldog (Davey Boy Smith) he was a house hold name, not only in the UK but in the USA aswell...and as for any other sport...look at Lionel Messi who plays for barcelona, David Beckham, Cristiano Ronaldo...

The list goes on and on.

So my question to you all is

Do you think Kevin Kelly is right in what he is saying? if so Justify

 

[Nate DaMac]

One example is The British Bulldog (Davey Boy Smith) he was a house hold name, not only in the UK but in the USA aswell

Not really. He was a mid carder during the worst point in WWE ratings wise. Sure, he's a big name among wrestling fans, but he isn't a household name. He's talking worldwide, not in each country. I'm sure Khali is huge in India but he sure as hell isn't a household name here.

...and as for any other sport...look at Lionel Messi who plays for barcelona,

No idea who that is.

David Beckham,

Maybe among sports enthusiasts, but not a worldwide name.

Cristiano Ronaldo...

Once again, no idea who that is.

You seem a bit confused. You see, being a household name is not the same as being famous. He's right, the WWE has never made a foreigner a household name, but I don't think it's something that cannot be done. There's really only like 5 people that have come from wrestling that could be considered household names and with the large majority of the top performers being American, odds are in their favor.

 

[Lee]

Andre the Giant is easily one that springs to mind. He's a household name, heck the sign next to my street has a sign with a sticker on telling us he has a posse. Andre the Giant, born in Belgium, a foreigner is a household name.

Bulldog is a household name for sure, the likes of Barrett and Regal will never be over here but the British Bulldog is here and certainly from the casual American audience.

It was a terrible article by KK to be honest that no real purpose at all.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Andre the Giant is easily one that springs to mind. He's a household name, heck the sign next to my street has a sign with a sticker on telling us he has a posse. Andre the Giant, born in Belgium, a foreigner is a household name.

That's absolutely right. I don't think most people(including me) even realize that Andre wasn't born in America so it likely just slipped his mind, though he, being a "Wrestling Journalist," should have his shit together.

Bulldog is a household name for sure, the likes of Barrett and Regal will never be over here but the British Bulldog is here and certainly from the casual American audience.

I don't think he's talking about just wrestling fans. Stone Cold Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan, and Macho Man are household names throughout the world. Bulldog is definitely a name any wrestling fan, casual or extreme, will know but your average Joe on the street would probably have no clue who he is.

It was a terrible article by KK to be honest that no real purpose at all.

It was rather dumb. He didn't really provide any evidence to suggest that it can't be done, he's kind of just talking just to talk. We already know they haven't created any huge megastars from other countries. The fuck is his point?

 

[harrythem]

In all fairness Nate I'd say not knowing who Messi or Ronaldo is would put you in the minority worldwide. Beckham's not just to sports either...look at the Hollywood lifetsyle etc him and his twiglet wife get.

As for Kevin Kelly, more and more he's coming across as a bitter ex, who hates his former partner (WWE) for dumping him and takes every opportunity to diss what they do, while still staying on their radar (via ROH) hoping they'll pay him attention again.

And his voice is Todd Grisham level of annoying too

 

[aliasv2]

Sorry if I mentioned people who you may not know, I thought Lionel Messi was quite a well known name, well over Europe he is an amazing football player(soccer).

I always thought of bulldog as a household name, if you were to mention royal rumble and bulldog people would know him.

And isnt Bret a foreigner, I know he is just north of you guys but he is from another country too.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

I thought Rey Mysterio was quite well known to the casual fan due to the uniqueness of the mask.

It's quite an ethnocentric article that as Lee and Nate said doesn't really serve much of a purpose. I mean, wasn't McIlroy pretty much guaranteed the win at the US Open after the 2nd day? Perhaps that was the reason viewing figures were down because it was sealed as long as he didn't have another collapse like he did at the Masters I believe. It doesn't exactly cast a favourable light on the perception of America to outsiders when he's essentially saying, " If someone isn't American then who cares."

Quite a disappointing article when he does sometimes deliver quite interesting and well thought out editorials. This just wasn't one of them.

(I'm glad he didn't bring up baseball though, the World Series where only teams from one country play!? Come on, that's a bit cheeky!)

 

[Slyfox696]

Kevin Kelly states the foreigners will never be household names...sorry but this is completely wrong, was he smoking some funny grass whilst writing it?

One example is The British Bulldog (Davey Boy Smith) he was a house hold name, not only in the UK but in the USA aswell...and as for any other sport...look at Lionel Messi who plays for barcelona, David Beckham, Cristiano Ronaldo...

The problem with your list is that those are not American household names.

Andre the Giant is easily one that springs to mind. He's a household name, heck the sign next to my street has a sign with a sticker on telling us he has a posse. Andre the Giant, born in Belgium, a foreigner is a household name.

He may be the only one, but even he was 20+ years ago.

Bulldog is a household name for sure, the likes of Barrett and Regal will never be over here but the British Bulldog is here and certainly from the casual American audience.

Those are not household names in America.

It was a terrible article by KK to be honest that no real purpose at all.

I disagree, it makes a very brutally honest point. Americans don't like anything that isn't homemade. We like the American dish for our entertainment, and everything else we'll politely accept, but we're going to open our wallets for Americans.

So, in wrestling terms, what Kevin Kelly is saying is for the WWE to try and get back to being a dominant player in American entertainment again, pushing guys not from America is not going to get them there.

In all fairness Nate I'd say not knowing who Messi or Ronaldo is would put you in the minority worldwide. get.

Except Kevin Kelly is not talking about worldwide, he's talking about in America.

Beckham's not just to sports either...look at the Hollywood lifetsyle etc him and his twiglet wife

More people in America know David Beckham because of his wife, not the other way around.

Sorry if I mentioned people who you may not know, I thought Lionel Messi was quite a well known name, well over Europe he is an amazing football player(soccer).

Americans, on the whole, don't really give a damn about football/soccer.

I always thought of bulldog as a household name, if you were to mention royal rumble and bulldog people would know him.

Not in America, he isn't.

And isnt Bret a foreigner, I know he is just north of you guys but he is from another country too.

And as Kevin Kelly pointed out, Hart was on top of the WWE during some of the worst times for the WWE in America.

I mean, wasn't McIlroy pretty much guaranteed the win at the US Open after the 2nd day? Perhaps that was the reason viewing figures were down because it was sealed as long as he didn't have another collapse like he did at the Masters I believe.

Don't kid yourself. If Tiger Woods was doing what McIlroy did, ratings would have been through the roof. Americans love to see Tiger Woods dominate, even if they watch to hate Tiger.

It doesn't exactly cast a favourable light on the perception of America to outsiders when he's essentially saying, " If someone isn't American then who cares."

Kevin Kelly isn't saying that. He's pointing out that, collectively, America says that.

Quite a disappointing article when he does sometimes deliver quite interesting and well thought out editorials. This just wasn't one of them.

No, it very much was a decent editorial. The problem people are having is understand the fact he's right.

(I'm glad he didn't bring up baseball though, the World Series where only teams from one country play!? Come on, that's a bit cheeky!)

Not true. The Blue Jays play in Toronto.

 

[3/4 Facelock]

There is no problem with aliasv2’s list. Just because they are not American household names doesn’t mean shit. This is 2011 and if you cannot follow events outside of our country or even take a glance at them then what the fuck are you using your internet and TV for? Since you guys are in your 20s I would guess you use the internet to beat off and be angry.

Picking a single name like Andre the Giant doesn’t mean anything either. You need more than one, and if you have to think hard, then Kevin Kelly’s obtuse point is made. While he couldn’t be more wrong, I am surprise to see anyone agree with him in this matter.

All over the world, people know our superstars in football, basketball, hockey, baseball, and even pro wrestling. I’m talking little dingy towns where people wear sandals made from the bark of a tree. And you have no idea who Cristiano Rinaldo and David Beckham are? I can’t give you stats or player history but you are telling me that you have NO IDEA who Cristiano Rinaldo and David Beckham are? At all? Do you even know what sports are? The boxer Manny Pacquiao? And if no do you understand that you are in a really select minority? Because sports have been around FOR LITERALLY thousands of years. Please promptly turn in your man card at the nearest slap you in the face station. Hopefully they could slap that world “never” out of your mouth too.

Because you have no idea who international sports stars are is no excuse. Since some of you might hate sports the same could be said of your favorite foreign born actor on your favorite soap opera or whatever show people who don’t watch sports watch. Hugh Laurie from House? He’s foreign. What about that Simon Cowell from American Idol? Is he a household name? What qualifies as a household name? His entire article is a bowl of dry shit. With flies on top.

There was once a time not too long ago that people said there could never be a black superstar in golf. And not too long ago many people also said a black man would never be president. It happened. Rather quickly too.

As long as he's black and not foreign right? Ok. As long as you can still grab something to keep support under Kevin Kelly's shit article.

So if a foreign born wrestler is not a house hold name already, give it a minute. Just because it hasn’t happened yet is no indication of it never happening as Kevin Kelly says.

If this article is in fact singularly about American born household names then it is a redundant article that serves no purpose than to shine a big light on the fact that Kevin Kelly’s article shows nervousness and a blatant fear of cultural progression. We are not isolationists. This country is made from all cultures and countries. To even suggest that anyone foreign will never make an impact and become a household name is preposterous.

I want to puke from the realization that I have to argue with hillbillies.

 

[aliasv2]

Its good to see the different oppinions, and slyfox as much as I see you are a respected member of these forums, I totally have to disagree with most of what you have said.

As the above poster stated, just because I am in the UK doesnt mean I dont know what stars are what, Yes I could go on about English household names, but I know quite a fair few that are foreign and household. Just think you have the UFC, GSP, Mirko Crocop, Dan Hardy, Nogueria..it goes on and on

 

[Slyfox696]

There is no problem with aliasv2’s list. Just because they are not American household names doesn’t mean shit.

What the fuck are you talking about? Did you even read the article? It has everything to do with everything.

God I hate when people say stupid things. Go read the article. Kevin Kelly is CLEARLY saying foreign guys cannot be top guys in America with casual fans. Good God, he LITERALLY said it:

In the United States, casual fans will never truly follow a foreign sports star. Casual fans will tune out if non-Americans are on top

The fact they are not American household names means everything to the WWE. Read the fucking article.

All over the world, people know our superstars in football, basketball, hockey, baseball, and even pro wrestling. I’m talking little dingy towns where people wear sandals made from the bark of a tree. And you have no idea who Cristiano Rinaldo and David Beckham are? I can’t give you stats or player history but you are telling me that you have NO IDEA who Cristiano Rinaldo and David Beckham are? At all? Do you even know what sports are? The boxer Manny Pacquiao? And if no do you understand that you are in a really select minority? Because sports have been around FOR LITERALLY thousands of years. Please promptly turn in your man card at the nearest slap you in the face station. Hopefully they could slap that world “never” out of your mouth too.

Of course I know who they are, but Kevin Kelly isn't talking about me. I have my man card, but perhaps you would like someone to return your intelligence card to you?

Because you have no idea who international sports stars are is no excuse. Since some of you might hate sports the same could be said of your favorite foreign born actor on your favorite soap opera or whatever show people who don’t watch sports watch. Hugh Laurie from House? He’s foreign. What about that Simon Cowell from American Idol? Is he a household name? What qualifies as a household name? His entire article is a bowl of dry shit. With flies on top.

Again, just because you're too stupid to either read the article or actually comprehend what he's saying doesn't change the fact you are completely wrong.

I want to puke from the realization that I have to argue with hillbillies.

Funny, because I feel the same way about idiots. Perhaps you could quit typing in this thread and make me feel better.

Its good to see the different oppinions, and slyfox as much as I see you are a respected member of these forums, I totally have to disagree with most of what you have said.

As the above poster stated, just because I am in the UK doesnt mean I dont know what stars are what, Yes I could go on about English household names, but I know quite a fair few that are foreign and household. Just think you have the UFC, GSP, Mirko Crocop, Dan Hardy, Nogueria..it goes on and on

And of those in the UFC, which one of them is bigger than Brock Lesnar? None of them. The above poster mentioned Manny Pacquiao...and yet boxing is in its worst state, maybe ever. The Klitschko brothers are top boxers, but I would bet you that for every 1 person in America who knows who the Klitschko brothers are, 10 would know Mike Tyson, and he hasn't been relevant in boxing for nearly 20 years.

Americans are drawn to Americans. It's really that simple. The majority of the biggest drawing superstars in American wrestling history have been American. These are simply facts that Kevin Kelly is stating, not opinions.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

Don't kid yourself. If Tiger Woods was doing what McIlroy did, ratings would have been through the roof. Americans love to see Tiger Woods dominate, even if they watch to hate Tiger.

Kevin Kelly isn't saying that. He's pointing out that, collectively, America says that.

No, it very much was a decent editorial. The problem people are having is understand the fact he's right.


Not true. The Blue Jays play in Toronto.

I think I maybe misinterpreted that golf point to be honest, and as a Brit/European I guess it's a bit reversed as the media here have been celebrating Rory's fantastic win coming so quickly after the infamous collapse just 2 months ago. Added to that the fact that 4 of the top 5 ranked golf players are European at the moment too, so Tiger isn't really at the forefront of golf over here, it's mostly about the Macs - Rory and Graham McDowell.

Perhaps Kelly himself isn't saying that, but you seem to agree that it's the same perception about America that I was pointing out? So it's agreeable that the mindset Kelly alluded to isn't a favourable one to outsiders?

I wasn't a fan of the article, but then I've been in the same position with other things deemed "right" or "good" before, so I'm not going to waste time arguing something subjective.

Haha I should have seen the Blue Jays coming! But still, 2 countries for a 'World' title?!

 

[Slyfox696]

I think I maybe misinterpreted that golf point to be honest, and as a Brit/European I guess it's a bit reversed as the media here have been celebrating Rory's fantastic win coming so quickly after the infamous collapse just 2 months ago. Added to that the fact that 4 of the top 5 ranked golf players are European at the moment too, so Tiger isn't really at the forefront of golf over here, it's mostly about the Macs - Rory and Graham McDowell.

Perhaps Kelly himself isn't saying that, but you seem to agree that it's the same perception about America that I was pointing out? So it's agreeable that the mindset Kelly alluded to isn't a favourable one to outsiders?

I wasn't a fan of the article, but then I've been in the same position with other things deemed "right" or "good" before, so I'm not going to waste time arguing something subjective.

Haha I should have seen the Blue Jays coming! But still, 2 countries for a 'World' title?!

What people have to understand is Kevin Kelly is not talking about conditions around the world, he's only talking about how things relate to America. I'm sure McIlroy was the toast of Europe, but in America, the ratings were horrible. If Tiger Woods had been doing the same thing, my guess (and the guess of many others) is that ratings would have been much better.

No one is saying there's a right or wrong in this scenario, just merely stating facts. And facts are Americans prefer Americans. That may seem "wrong" to people not in America, but in all honesty, it's hard to be "wrong" when it comes down to mere personal preference. If Kevin Kelly was to say non-Americans weren't as good, then you can have a debate on that topic, as "good" indicates objective quality, rather than subjective preferences. But he's merely stating what is essentially a fact; Americans prefer Americans.

And as far as the World Series goes, Major League Baseball has players from countries all over the world. In that sense, it literally is the World Series. Just because the teams themselves are mostly stationed in America, that doesn't mean there isn't an international flavor to the game.

 

[3/4 Facelock]

I read the post you stupid shit. That's why I posted (read: not multiquoted) Did you read mine? No you fucking didn't. Because if you did you wouldn't have a fucking leg to stand on with your shit response.

He doesn't even describe what a casual fan is. Is there such a thing? I don't know. If an American is not on top I'm gonna tune out? The problem with Kevin Kelly and dipshits like you is that you think you represent what fans want.

PROTIP: You don't.

My posting, while it does include you, isn't also straight to you. It's for everyone else who is going to post on here in agreement with an article that says nothing. Americans are simply drawn to Americans? What the fuck is that? No shit Sherlock. Every country is attracted to their own stars. This is common knowledge. If a guy from your hometown makes it big, are you not going to cheer for him? An article written on it is unnecessary. But the problem I have with the article and your point of agreement with it is that Kevin Kelly spreads the word "never" around and states his opinion as fact. When the fact is he could not be further fromt he truth.

The world has changed. This country has changed. We are currently having a huge influx of foreign TV and ideas. We have so much access to anything on the planet.

Why did Kevin Kelly write that article? If it is so obvious why did he feel the need to write it? I'll tell you why. Because of UFC. Because of the foreign born superstars in pro wrestling. Because of new foreign TV shows. Who knows...maybe someone with a British or Chinese accent told Kevin Kelly to go fuck himself and it made him irate. Irate enough to write a foolish argument in favor of Americans always wanting to see only American things and dismissing the foreign.

You want to take Kevin Kelly's side? You want to support what he says? Fine. I don't. I have foresight and an open mind and know that sooner rather than later we will/already do have a huge foreign megastar(s) here. Frankly I am surprised that someone as young as you at 26 would agree with his point of view. You are of a generation who doesn't have to wait for anything and who has access to seeing the best in the world do their thing at anytime you choose.

But you know what? You're from Missouri where they are born stupid. Take a fucking hike Slyfox. Concerning this topic you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. As far as I'm concerned you don't even know how to post correctly let alone get your point of view across clearly.

 

[Karilas]

As an English fella, I found the article a little pointless. All it did for me was highlight at least Kevin Kelly's perception that America is still pretty damn xenophobic.

As he was coming purely from a US standpoint it really is difficult for me to relate to any of it. The casual American doesn't follow the World's BIGGEST Sport, So our household names may very well not be yours. What I believe Kevin Kelly has done here is in fact completely misjudge the global market.

 

[Slyfox696]

I read the post you stupid shit.

I doubt it, at least not until I called you out on it. And if you did, then you really are a bigger dumbass than I thought.

Did you read mine? No you fucking didn't.

You're right...I just multi-quoted and guessed what you said in my response to you.

He doesn't even describe what a casual fan is.

Who the fuck cares? That wasn't the point of his article. Casual fan is a term that has been in Internet wrestling lingo for a decade. If you don't understand the concept of the term, that falls on you, not Kevin Kelly.

The problem with Kevin Kelly and dipshits like you is that you think you represent what fans want.

Again, I understand reading comprehension is difficult to you (seems like we've been over this before) but Kevin Kelly is not trying to represent what American fans want, merely describe what they want. They are two entirely different concepts.

And he's right. And that bothers you, for reasons I don't have the first clue to understanding.

My posting, while it does include you, isn't also straight to you. It's for everyone else who is going to post on here in agreement with an article that says nothing.

Says nothing? What are you talking about?

It's very clear what it says. It says the WWE will never regain major success by pushing foreign born talents because they are foreign. It may help accomplish to goal of global expansion to markets specific to a wrestler, but his contention is that the WWE should not push foreign talents, they should just push TALENT. And for Americans, they are much more likely to respond to American born wrestlers, and since other countries have shown they are willing to accept American wrestlers far more than Americans are willing to accept foreign wrestlers, the WWE should push whomever will make them the most money, which are American born wrestlers.

If you think that says nothing, then your entire position in this thread says nothing.

Americans are simply drawn to Americans? What the fuck is that? No shit Sherlock. Every country is attracted to their own stars. This is common knowledge. If a guy from your hometown makes it big, are you not going to cheer for him? An article written on it is unnecessary.

So either you didn't read the article, or you lack the ability of reading comprehension. Thanks for clearing that up.

But the problem I have with the article and your point of agreement with it is that Kevin Kelly spreads the word "never" around and states his opinion as fact.

I always love when morons say stuff like this. It's like if someone doesn't state in every other sentence he's expressing an opinion, then idiots like you are completely incapable of understanding it is his viewpoint. I guess the fact it's listed in the "Editorial" section just isn't enough for you, right?

We are currently having a huge influx of foreign TV and ideas. We have so much access to anything on the planet.

And the top entertainment draws are still American.

Tom Hanks, Will Smith, Matt Damon, Charlie Sheen, John Cena, Brock Lesnar, Lady Gaga, Tiger Woods, LeBron James...pick an entertainment medium, and you'll find Americans at the top of the heap in America. What's your point?

Why did Kevin Kelly write that article?

So people would read it and discuss it? Why else does someone write an editorial? Why do you so easily lose sight of things which are common sense to most people?

I'll tell you why. Because of UFC. Because of the foreign born superstars in pro wrestling. Because of new foreign TV shows. Who knows...maybe someone with a British or Chinese accent told Kevin Kelly to go fuck himself and it made him irate. Irate enough to write a foolish argument in favor of Americans always wanting to see only American things and dismissing the foreign.

Who cares why he wrote it, as long as it's true?

You want to take Kevin Kelly's side? You want to support what he says? Fine. I don't.

Support what? The fact that Americans are drawn to Americans? What is there to support, you already agreed it's true.

I have foresight and an open mind and know that sooner rather than later we will/already do have a huge foreign megastar(s) here. Frankly I am surprised that someone as young as you at 26 would agree with his point of view. You are of a generation who doesn't have to wait for anything and who has access to seeing the best in the world do their thing at anytime you choose.

Which has nothing to do with Americans as a whole.

Obviously there have been foreign entertainment stars which have been big, the Beatles for example. But at the end of the day, Americans are much more likely to want American heroes, not foreign heroes.

You're trying to make this into a good or bad thing, or right or wrong thing, and it's just not. It's just a fact. You can disagree with Kevin Kelly's assertion that pushing wrestlers simply because they're not from America won't work, but the fact is there is NOTHING in history to support you. In the real world, we call that conjecture. On the other hand, Kevin Kelly is using historical facts to support his position.

But you know what? You're from Missouri where they are born stupid.

Yeah, that's such an original insult. What's even better is if I was born in any state other than where you're from, I would be born stupid as well, right?

You're a dumbass. Next time, try to come up with a little more clever insult than insulting the location in my profile.

Take a fucking hike Slyfox.

Let's review:

1) I posted in this thread before you

2) You don't like what I say

3) I've posted on this forum for nearly 3 years longer than you

4) I'm the Administrator here


Seems to me if you have a problem, you'll need to be the one to leave. But as long as you wish to stay, I'll continue to make you look like the stupid child you are.

Concerning this topic you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

Considering I'm right, and history has proven me right, and your whole position is centered around nothing but guesses, I dare say you're the one who doesn't know what the fuck you're talking about.

How does it feel, anyways? You know, how does it feel to get completely embarrassed from someone who was born in a state you claim people are born stupid from? If I'm stupid, and kicking your ass the way I am, what does that make you?

As an English fella, I found the article a little pointless. All it did for me was highlight at least Kevin Kelly's perception that America is still pretty damn xenophobic.

As he was coming purely from a US standpoint it really is difficult for me to relate to any of it. The casual American doesn't follow the World's BIGGEST Sport, So our household names may very well not be yours. What I believe Kevin Kelly has done here is in fact completely misjudge the global market.

Really, is reading comprehension this difficult for people?

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Well it's safe to say that 3/4 Facelock has been effectively dusted in this thread...

I did have one contradiction to Kevin's article, though it hardly disproves it. There HAS been a case of a massive foreign born pro wrestler being hugely over in America, and that's Andre the Giant. Now, I don't see many guys carrying around flags from the French Alps or Grenoble, but Andre wasn't American and yet was one of the biggest draws - AND a household name - a long time ago.

This includes the time before Hogan turned into the world-changing mega-face.

What we are seeing with the WWE marketing and pushing more foreign born stars is also two-fold. In most entertainment markets, the products and services are becoming increasingly global. I read something the other day about Shane McMahon wanting to develop on demand cable in China. That is, I believe, the fastest growing economy in the world right now, and also has the highest population. If they are, in 10 years, far more connected to cable and internet services than they are now, then it would bode well for a company like WWE to have international reach.

Furthermore, some of the great American stars earned their "stripes" so to speak by feuding with the foreign born stars. Hogan got over by beating Iron Sheik, Lex Luger got over by slamming Yokozuna. Perhaps the means to the end isn't just to push the foreign born stars, but to create a believable foil to the American born stars.

Overall, Kevin Kelly is right - a foreign born WWE superstar will struggle to get over the way an American- or Canadian-born star would. Not impossible, mind you, but his point is relevant and well presented.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

If he's talking about only the USA and wrestling then he's right. Ain't no way he can bring that up for soccer/football.

But let's stick to what he mean; no one can go super over in the USA, in wrestling if he's a foreigner; Absolutely right. One exception maybe Andre but I don't think many know that he was french to be honest.

Most foreigners are always potrayed as heels and antagonists, and it is the job of the 'patriot' to defeat them. Now those who aren't exactly evil commies also don't go over because quite frankly there is no connectivity between them and the American fans. There is a certain way you have to talk and look to go over in the two major pro-wrestling promotions in the USA. And if you draw up names and see what's the HCF it would be that they were either American or Canadian and brought unbelievable electricity to the arenas.

 

[3/4 Facelock]

I don't understand what dusted means, but ok. I got dusted. I've never been burned by a Missouri hillbilly and someone from New Jersey the land of fist pumping low-lifes. And it happened in the same day! Lucky me.

Regardless, of my dusting, I do not see Kevin Kelly's point. He talks like we are a group of isolationists and xenophobes. We are not.

It's hillbilly mob mentality. That's what it is. The rest of the world is in step and an increasing minority believes in things similar to what Kelly says. Americans only want American. It's outright propaganda from one idiot so other idiots can nod their head to it.

Well, it's wrong. Not wrong on a moral level. But wrong on a reality level. It's not like that. The WWE can make a star out of any of their wrestlers. If they want Wade Barrett or Sheamus to be the #1 superguy they can put the belt on him and write hella stores to write him in as one of the greatest.

Maybe household name will not work anymore. Things move in and out of the spotlight very quickly these days. Back in the Andre days you have TV with 12 channels on it. No computers. No internet. I'm afraid that there will never again be a household name in wrestling. As far as that goes, Hogan and Andre and some of the 80s guys. Rock and SCSA no matter how popular they are to us are nowhere near the level of those men back then.

Natural ability and talent can come from anyone from anywhere. To think that American wrestlers are and will always be the top draw is absurd. To think that Americans only want Americans in any kind of entertainement is insane.

Irish Canadian, you make a very good point (even though you are from Jersey). Your argument is sound and clear. I happen to be on the other side of the fence. Maybe you can help your boy Slyfox to be a better poster. I wasn't aware that you could post 4000 one sentence posts, multiquote 500 posts and be considered reputable and have someone back you up even if you are wildly incorrect. Forgive me. Or don't. I don't give a shit. Thanks for dusting me off. Whatever the fuck that means.

 

[Captain Morgan Freeman]

Like its been said before bulldog is known to casual wrestling fans but not to people who dont follow wrestling. Hulk hogan and The Rock are.

Also you picked a bad sport in soccer to try and make your point as Messi may be known by everyone in europe and south america, in america however he is only known by the 10-15% of people who follow soccer in the states. Beckham is known because of his wife and the fact that he went to play soccer in the states kind of like how pele went to play for new york cosmos in the eighties and hence he is pretty well known in america.


Thing is i never watch golf ever and neither do any of my friends yet you ask anyone in Ireland who tiger woods is and they will tell you he plays golf and that he's pretty damm good at it. Ive also never watched american football but ive heard of Dan Marino before.


I agree and disagree with Kevin Kelly though, making an american you're top guy does'nt guarentee he will become a household name i mean look at John Cena he's been the top guy for 6 years now and he's not a household name in the same way The rock and Hogan are.
If the product as a whole is great and entertaining and an American is the face of the company the that face will become a household name such as Hogan, Tiger woods, and Shaq.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Only Siths and Wrestlezone columnists deal in absolutes.

What a lame article. I don't think Kevin Kelly believes his own words. He just needs hits on his article and whipping up some contraversy is a good place to start. He has shown in the past that he is pretty level-headed, pragmatic and politically correct guy. I am guessing that Madden is getting way more hits and Kelly needs to catch up.

A foreigner may have to work harder or catch more breaks to be the top guy saying a foreigner will NEVER be the top in his sport is just sensationalism.

Not to insist that Kelly is a racist or xenophobe (his article makes Americans sound like xenophobes) but his argument reminds me of arguments like, "blacks will never succeed at the quarterback position beacuse they don't have the mental aptitude" and "the Chinese will never succeed in business because they are commies and their language is too hard to read and understand".

Regardless, anyone who does not realize that Andre was the man, does not know anything.

 

[Karilas]

Really, is reading comprehension this difficult for people?

No. I fully understand his article, and it does paint a very xenophobic picture of America. He may be right, but times they are a changing, and I totally believe he has missed the importance of international diversity in a global marketplace. That's all.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I don't understand what dusted means, but ok. I got dusted. I've never been burned by a Missouri hillbilly and someone from New Jersey the land of fist pumping low-lifes. And it happened in the same day! Lucky me.

Well I'm from Missouri too. Sorry it took so long to get back in here, my Meth Lab blew up.

Regardless, of my dusting, I do not see Kevin Kelly's point. He talks like we are a group of isolationists and xenophobes. We are not.

It's almost as if you truly believe that Americans aren't in larger part ******ed. We really are.

It's hillbilly mob mentality. That's what it is. The rest of the world is in step and an increasing minority believes in things similar to what Kelly says. Americans only want American. It's outright propaganda from one idiot so other idiots can nod their head to it.

It's not a minority, it's a heavy majority. Numbers don't lie.

Well, it's wrong. Not wrong on a moral level. But wrong on a reality level. It's not like that. The WWE can make a star out of any of their wrestlers. If they want Wade Barrett or Sheamus to be the #1 superguy they can put the belt on him and write hella stores to write him in as one of the greatest.

You mean like they did with Bret Hart? Sure he's an all time great and a legend to every wrestling fan with a brain, but there's absolutely no denying that he was at the top of the card during the worst financial era in WWE's history. If they do the same thing with Barrett or Sheamus and the ratings start tanking, why would they push to keep going with it? I'm not saying that Kevin is right and no foreign star will ever make it huge in America, but it's hard to dispute with virtually no evidence to the contrary.

Maybe household name will not work anymore. Things move in and out of the spotlight very quickly these days. Back in the Andre days you have TV with 12 channels on it. No computers. No internet. I'm afraid that there will never again be a household name in wrestling.

This is a good point and you may be 100% correct here.

As far as that goes, Hogan and Andre and some of the 80s guys. Rock and SCSA no matter how popular they are to us are nowhere near the level of those men back then.

Then you say something like this. Austin is immensely more popular than Andre and he's right up there with Hulk. No one else in the 80's even touches him. At all. Rock is definitely more popular than Andre now and none of these 80's guys touch him other than Hulk who, yes, is easily more popular.

Natural ability and talent can come from anyone from anywhere. To think that American wrestlers are and will always be the top draw is absurd. To think that Americans only want Americans in any kind of entertainement is insane.

Seriously, what evidence do you have to back that up? You're just talking out of your ass man. That may be the world you want to live in, but here in the real world that's not the case.

Irish Canadian, you make a very good point (even though you are from Jersey). Your argument is sound and clear. I happen to be on the other side of the fence. Maybe you can help your boy Slyfox to be a better poster. I wasn't aware that you could post 4000 one sentence posts, multiquote 500 posts and be considered reputable and have someone back you up even if you are wildly incorrect. Forgive me. Or don't. I don't give a shit. Thanks for dusting me off. Whatever the fuck that means.

I think it has a lot more to do with him making you look like a dipshit. You still have not said one thing to show that you're even worthy of debating him as you have been proven wrong with every sentence you've typed. Not trying to be on his jock or anything, but anyone with a brain who reads this mess should know it's the truth.

 

[Jeff]

I disagree with him big time. Just because it hasn't happen, doesn't mean it wont, not just in WWE but in Sports in general.

Professional Sports are slowly becoming more global. The next great household NBA player could very likely come from over seas. However, this is a wrestling site who cares about other sports. Lets keep it focused on wrestling...

Let's look at the big household names he mentions. First Hogan and Macho Man. When these two were house hold names, WWE was making the transition from regional wrestling to national wrestling. It wasn't until Austin and Rock that WWE really started to go global, which means the kids watching wrestling in the late 90s and early 2000s are JUST becoming wrestlers.

I am not saying that this upcoming generation of wrestlers will have the next household name and if this next generation does the odds are they will be from America or Canada because WWE and Professional Wrestling (at least our idea of professional wrestling) has a much larger presents here then it is overseas. But the longer the WWE has a presents overseas and the more kids who watch WWE overseas, the odds of a star coming from overseas will continue to increase.

Lastly, one problem that WWE often does with there foreign stars are they stereotype them. Look at Sheamus, Del Rio, Sin Cara, William Regal Vladimir Kozlov, Funaki, British Bulldog, The Great Khali, etc. (we could think of a lot more I am sure)

All of these superstars past and present, there gimmick was based around there nationality and where they are from. Of course the American audience isn't going to connect and bond with them when this is how they are packaged. If the WWE brought in a guy from let's say England, but didn't package them with a English sterotyped character they would have the same odds of becoming a household name then any other American wrestler.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I think that a foreigner could become a household name if he has the neccesary charisma and if you do not make a huge deal of the fact that he is a foreigner. I know history is probably not on my side in this case but that is because I feel that there haven't been charsimatic foreigners around. Davey Boy Smith was a midcarder and a good big man wrestler but not really a special, one of a kind performer that you need to be to become a household name. Bret Hart was somewhat of a household name but if you look at the faces of the company from 1984 to present day, he might be the weakest in that list. But it is also not wholly Bret's fault. The wrestling business was in a downslide in those days and WWF probably had its poorest roster at the time Bret was at the top. Niether is exactly a favorable condition for drawing a lot.

One foreign guy who was definately a popular name for a short while at the very least is Eddie Guerrero. He had the charisma but he got his push at the *** end of his career by which time he was more of a veteran babyface than suited for a face of the company type role.

The fact is though that just being foreign does not lend to a wrestler getting booed out of his skin. It is a stereotype in wrestling and something that works very well but it is also something that could be worked round if you desperately want to push a foreign wrestler. Just like you promote the fact heavily that the guy is a foreigner when he is playing a heel, you just have to downplay the fact and focus on his other characteristics when you push him as a face.

Even though Eddie and Bret are not as huge household names as Austin or Rock there is little doubt about the fact that at the height of their popularity they could get a huge positive reaction from a largely Pro American crowd while facing even an American babyface. Now imagine Bret wrestling at a better time and Eddie getting his big push earlier and both guys being a bit more talented. In such a scenario I cannot think of a reason why they would not have become huge household names.