Kaval and Bryan Danielson... The Last of a Dying Breed?

[jccool420]

I've actually been thinking about this for a long time now...

Back in the day, we had guys like Malenko, Eddie, Benoit, Jericho, Rey Mysterio, and a few others who actually toured the world and got experience and training outside of the US, like Japan and Mexico... They took the time to travel the world and get that extra training and wisdom...

Now days we have all the new stars who haven't done or learned shit outside of FCW... Sheamus, McIntyre, etc... It really sucks these days as it seems you have to be friends with someone high up like Sheamus with Triple H or be a former wrestler's kid...

Kaval and Danielson may just be the next Benoit and Eddie... They truly are the last of a dying breed of wrestlers who respected the business not ass raped it...

What are your thoughts on the importance of traveling and learning your craft outside of the WWE and outside of the US?

Do you think Kaval and Danielson are really the last of the great ones?

 

[Schizophrenic]

First off Sheamus & Drew were stars in their home countries so to say they didn't do anything outside of FCW or WWE first is very Michael Coleish. I'll even add Alberto Del Rio who is the son of a mexican wrestling legend and made his name in Mexico for years prior to joining WWE. Most of the guys on the roster have been around the block before coming to WWE they just don't put an emphasis on them because honestly they did not make their "name" in promotions and countries around the world before coming to WWE. They may have been stars on the indies and local towns but they made thier status within WWE where as Bryan & Ki have made headlines and won titles in Japan, Mexico, Europe and all those places. I bet if you were to do research on the talent in WWE you would see that they have all done something before coming to the WWE and that they have been places.

 

[marklouis]

Well, you forgot to mention Alberto Del Rio. While it is true that he is the son of a famous wrestler, he has wrestled extensively in Mexico & Japan & has been very successful. As for your question, I think that, unfortunately, Danielson & Kaval were hurt by their appearances. More specifically, they don't have the look we all know Vince McMahon loves. It's not fair, because they are both very talented wrestlers, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that if they were 6-5 250, McMahon would've snapped them up in a heart beat. But maybe we'll see more guys like Danielson & Kaval. Maybe the wellness policy coupled with concerns about head injuries will cause the WWE to not care so much about finding the biggest guy. Maybe we'll see guys who look natural, and who actually wrestle. I'm not counting on it, but it could happen. So, I guess I'd say no, I don't think they'll be the last ones.

 

[themusicman]

I think as was mentioned above both Sheamus and Drew were working over here in the UK for quite some time before they moved to the states. Sadly as British based federations dont get any T.V time over here its very difficult for wrestlers to make a name for themselves (Doug Williams, although with TNA, is another example of this having performed all over the country for years.) I do however kind of agree with what your saying, in the sense that you have to have a particular look in order to really make a name for yourself with WWE and Kaval and Danielson dont fit into that particular bracket. Having said that I do think they are extremely talented performers and fans seem to recognise this and hopefully it will influence how the WWE choose to use them.
Maybe what WWE needs to do is create their own version of the 'X' division where these guys could showcase their talents and build a fan base before pushing them into the main event scene.

 

[schaeffershawn]

I've actually been thinking about this for a long time now...

Back in the day, we had guys like Malenko, Eddie, Benoit, Jericho, Rey Mysterio, and a few others who actually toured the world and got experience and training outside of the US, like Japan and Mexico... They took the time to travel the world and get that extra training and wisdom...

Now days we have all the new stars who haven't done or learned shit outside of FCW... Sheamus, McIntyre, etc... It really sucks these days as it seems you have to be friends with someone high up like Sheamus with Triple H or be a former wrestler's kid...

Kaval and Danielson may just be the next Benoit and Eddie... They truly are the last of a dying breed of wrestlers who respected the business not ass raped it...

What are your thoughts on the importance of traveling and learning your craft outside of the WWE and outside of the US?

Do you think Kaval and Danielson are really the last of the great ones?

Just pointing it out it out but both Shamus and Drew have paid their dues. Go to their wikipedia pages. They both started in 2002-2003. They both worked their way up wrestling all over England and Ireland and becoming very over and known there. They had their tryout match against each other. Then they both went to developmental and worked hard to get up the ladder. The fact that HHH and HBK saw something in them is irrelevant. HHH saw something in Orton does that mean Orton does not deserve his spot? Of course it doesn't. However at the end of the day to claim guys who have been wrestling for the better part of a decade have not paid their dues just because they did not go the exact same route as Kaval and Danielson is border line idiotic.

 

[Scrump_1]

There's always going to be guys who never got to go around the world and hone there skills and that's fine really.
I'd rather have a company with a diverse wrestling style as opposed to only guys with a style like Kaval and Danielson's.
That's not to say that I don't like their styles, I just rather see others.

But to answer your question I don't think they're the last of a dying breed.

 

[Wullief23]

I've actually been thinking about this for a long time now...



Now days we have all the new stars who haven't done or learned shit outside of FCW... Sheamus, McIntyre, etc... It really sucks these days as it seems you have to be friends with someone high up like Sheamus with Triple H or be a former wrestler's kid...

Ok I'm not on looking for arguments or to nit pick, but i can't believe the supidity of the first comments on this post.
Drew McIntyre (Galloway) And Sheamus have been wrestling in all over the UK and Ireland for years. I personally have seen dozens of Drew's matches whilst he was in BCW. He has been in FCW for around 2 years prior to making his current run on Smackdown (don't forget he also had a much smaller run around 18 months or so ago) Before FCW he wrestled mostly for BCW where i saw several of his matches over a 3/4 year period (including his very last match where he had to drop the title before flying out to FCW) So therefore this guy was paying his due's and was lucky enough to be noticed/scouted by WWE agents. Drew stays around 30 minutes from where i do and have met him several times at these shows. In these shows the wrestlers are lucky if they make any money at all. Usually they have to pay there own training fee's, own travel costs etc, and not forgetting if they get hurt then they will be unable to work there normal jobs, so to say these guys don't pay there due's in an attempt to get scouted is absurd!

I don't know so much about Sheamus (and any one who has read any of my previous posts will know i'm not a fan) but i do know he certainly paid his dues in the same sort of way as Drew. In the UK we used to have a channel called 'The Wrestling Channel' where i seen Sheamus several times, again around a four year period before he was picked up by FCW. He went by the name Sheamus O'Shaunessay. I'm not a fan of his (i think he is the modern day Hercules Hernandes who was nothing special) but he certainly bust his ass to get to WWE.

One thing thta you said that makes a bit of sense is that because Vince/HHH like them they have had a good early push, BUT this by no means means they didn't pay their dues to get there.

All i'm saying is you have to look into some facts before posting about a couple of young guys who have done well to get where they have done.

 

[Ferbian]

They're hardly the last. Like a few have mentioned Sheamus and Drew didn't go directly to the United States and FCW / WWE. Bryan and Kaval are just a few of the people that stuck to the independent scene for a long time.

We still have active wrestlers in the WWE who have worked around the world, and it's not necessarily just the veterans. Let's not discredit the fact that before Ted DiBiase Jr. went to WWE, he worked tours in Japan with NOAH and a bit with NJPW I believe as well.

David Hart Smith worked Japan as well, Tyson Kidd included, as well as a bit of Canadian Stampede wrestling.

So, just with that minor list of people who are most likely just the half of the people that have worked elsewhere, it proves that Bryan and Kaval are just the latest acquisitions of wrestlers that worked across the world, but hardly the last.

 

[Boondocks]

There's a very diverse set of styles of wrestlers these days. There are actual wrestlers, like your Jack Swagger, who made a name in amateur wrestling before moving here. There's the technicians, who are more appreciated outside of WWE, like Danielson and Kaval. There's your second/third generation stars, who not only have the bloodline, but because of that, learned and wanted to be "just like daddy", being your DiBiase, Orton, and Rhodes people. THEN there's the people who just get in cuz they're big, like Khali. But to say that any of these people won't exist is wrong. Not only will many future American wrestlers, like myself, will aspire to carry on the technical wrestling. But in Japan and areas like that, technical/high-flying wrestling is like being a big man in the WWE. It's they way that is most praised there. And they will always carry on the "dying" breed. So no, many people love technical wrestlers and will keep the legacy going.

 

[tsurfer2000h]

Have we not noticed a trend as of late with some of the newer wrestlers lately? It is almost like you know their moves before they even do them. Case in point Rick Flair, but don't get me wrong he is a great wrestler but he uses the same moves match after match. The older wrestlers mentioned in the OP had a way of mixing it up so you didn't know what came next. I just think it would benefit all wrestlers to learn more about their craft in different places around the world. Knowledge is power for everybody. If Sheamus and McInyre are not careful they too may become predictable also. There is a difference between those who have studied other techniques from around the world and those who have not. Notice the older gentlemen mentioned in the OP have always been able to work what they learned and capitalize on that wisdom. I do agree with the OP,but also disagree on certain things. What do I know though I am just a fan here. That is just my 2 cents tossed out there for the sake of wrestling and being a fan. I will say that Sheamus and Drew are good wrestlers, but with a little knowledge they may be great wrestlers. That is all I have to say.

 

[jccool420]

Okay, I'll admit that I should have done more research before naming McIntyre and Sheamus as examples... But even still, is wrestling independents in your home country the same as traveling the globe and learning the diferent styles of wrestling? I don't think so at all...

I mean look at the guys I named in my OP... They learned in their home country and then went to Japan and basically got retrained to learn the Japanesse style of wrestling, the same with Mexico, they went down there and learned the Lucha style... Then they apllied all the styles that they learned into their style... That was really the point of my post was to name Kaval and Danielson true students of the game who have developed their styles from all over the world... Del Rio has done this too so it would be unfair to leave him out...

Many things that are said about Kaval and Danielson just remind me a lot of a new era Benoit and Eddie... They are undersized and highly talented...

Maybe the statement I made about "not doing shit outside FcW" was a little Micheal Cole-ish and closed minded... Sorry for that... It just seems like a lot of WWE's guys come from out of nowhere these days and don't have that rich history to them as wrestlers did in the past... These days you get trained then have a few years on the indy scene and hope WWE picks you up... The guys like Jericho, Beniot, Eddie, and Malenko traveled the world, got trained on numerous different styles and worked for a lot of independent federations before getting their big break into WCW... I think that is a huge part of the reason they were the best pure wrestlers of our generation and it is becoming a lost art in my opinion...

 

[NoCareEver]

Well my juggalo friend, it probably just has to do with the focus of the company as a whole. In WCW we had the cruiserweights who were generally foreign or comprised of people like you mentioned and I'd also probably throw Jericho in there. The cruiserweight division was a huge focus of the program. Even back then WWE/F/G had the Light Heavyweight title with people like Taka Michiwhatever who could also bring to the forefront more of that style. Even today, we're all well aware that Rey Mysterio is seasoned veteran of many styles of wrestling but the focus of the company isn't to showcase that kind of contest. Even TNA has been focusing less and less on the X Division where people like even your boy Kavalokishi used to shine. I've never watched ROH because my cable provider only has channels people actually watch so I don't know how they run things but I'd assume they have a lot of "pure" wrestlers just from the names I've seen come from there such as Wolfe, Joe, Daniels, Kaval, Danielson, and most recently Black. So I guess that both supports and argues your point. Supports it in the sense that we just don't see the kind of competition where that kind of action is showcased, and argues it where we see just recently more people coming from ROH into the real world.

 

[richunclescrooge]

The WWE may have better atheletes now, but they do not have better workers. Guys used to spend years honing their craft, wrestling for different crowds all over the country and the world to gain the skills to mke it to the next level. Now all you need to do is be 6'5 and 260 lbs. Their line of thinking is " you can teach someone to wrestle but you cant teach the look". In my opinion, thats what's ruining the business, well, among other things lol.

Batista is a great example, granted he got better over the years, but when he started he was awful. He got in because he's a beast. A lot of times what happend is WWE will bring in a monster assuming he'll learn to wrestle, he never does and they let him go, ie: Nathan Jones, Giant Gonzales, Sylvester Terkey, etc. Dont even get me started on Khali, he has had a job for years but EVERYONE KNOWS HE SUCKS IN THE RING! That's the only heat he gets, its awful and it exposes the business terribly

IMO

 

[MWRedskins]

i disagree here. I think WWE has some huge talents, they just need to be used and i think they are getting better, the only problem with WWE is the Tag Division needs.......more tag teams and exposure and the Women's wrestling needs to work on their in ring skills with a few exceptions.

Anyway to the point i was going to make, you mentioned Kaval. I think Kaval is a future IC champion, but i cant say he's going to be a great world champion, however, Daniel Bryan has the potential to be a HUGE star. Hopefully he wins the US title at NOC then holds it and makes the title credible, if he gets better on the mic and gets more known, he's going to be good.

However, there are some stars that i can tell you about now. I think CM Punk has potential to put on a 5 star match (see Samoa Joe vs. Punk 2 in ROH) and he's GREAT on that mic. Sheamus and McIntyre have been all over the world, i am growing to like Sheamus as a heel, McIntyre, i like his music, but he's just what i am a fan of. Someone mentioned Del Rio, he's going to be pushed. and i also like Cody Rhodes' future, WWE may not have Benoit or Guerrero (Eddie i mean, i know Vickie and Chavo are still around) anymore, but they have guys who can wrestle.

 

[brighamosity]

To be perfectly honest, I don't see the big deal of where they come from. Saying a guy should be experienced in different countries is like saying athletes from other sports should do the same. Should professional basketball players need to play in European leagues for them to be taken seriously in the NBA? Of course not! If they are good enough to go straight from college to the pros, or even directly from high school to the pros, then more power to them. Don't hate on talented young guys in WWE because they got there sooner than Bryan Danielson did. That's like hating on Lebron James because he didn't play basketball in China.

And honestly, who cares about foreign wrestling? I mean, does wrestling in Japan or Mexico really make you any better of a wrestler than a guy who wrestled for Ring of Honor or any other independent league? I'm pretty sure just about every wrestler on the roster has paid their dues one way or another. I read that even The Miz wrestled the independent scene for 4 years before WWE paid any attention to him.

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

Back in the day, we had guys like Malenko, Eddie, Benoit, Jericho, Rey Mysterio, and a few others who actually toured the world and got experience and training outside of the US, like Japan and Mexico... They took the time to travel the world and get that extra training and wisdom...

That might true. But a lot of those guys took a while to catch on in the WWE because they didn't focus on building a character. (Though Malenko didn't) Which made it easier for the bigger names to do promos about how the other guy was boring.

Now days we have all the new stars who haven't done or learned shit outside of FCW... Sheamus, McIntyre, etc... It really sucks these days as it seems you have to be friends with someone high up like Sheamus with Triple H or be a former wrestler's kid...

And what is wrong with FCW training? They have Dusty Rhodes, a guy who tries to book to hide weaknesses while letting the wrestlers play ridiculous characters to gain experience, in charge down there. Plus, a lil Norman Smiley never hurts unless it the other definition of a lil Norman..

Kaval and Danielson may just be the next Benoit and Eddie... They truly are the last of a dying breed of wrestlers who respected the business not ass raped it...

So, people like Cena, who is a company guy 100%, that does everything in his power to make that the WWE (the face of pro wrestling in America) has a positive image? Or what about how Cena accounts for over 30 percent of sales that run the company that is keeping pro wrestling alive in America. You're right, how dare he sodomize the business.

What are your thoughts on the importance of traveling and learning your craft outside of the WWE and outside of the US?

It depends on what the individual wants. The WWE has it is own unique style that has worked for almost 30 years: Maximum heat with minimum risk. Believe it or not, there are other motives for the WWE roster being a part of the roster outside of "for the love of the sport." There are guys who really enjoy putting on a show. There are guys who really love the opportunity to travel all over the world. Then there's the guys like Kevin Nash who flat out love the money. But I guess if they aren't busting their humps to "make it" to the WWE, they aren't as credible as guys who worked in the indies.

Newsflash, pro wrestling is as fake as Maryse's glorious dirty pillows.

Do you think Kaval and Danielson are really the last of the great ones?

Of course not. Stu Bennett is British. Do you honestly he went "Imma pack my stuff up and move to Tampa to be a FCW guy." and it just happened like that? What about Stephen Farrelly or that Scottish dude on SD?

 

[ForzaItalia]

To be honest here, it doesn't matter where you learn to wrestle because as long as you are able to learn the basics and you are capable of taking bumps, able to perform x amount of moves, and can get the crowd excited then you are doing your job as a wrestler. Wrestlers do not all have to have that Japanese or Mexican fighting style to be successful in the business. I mean you have guys like The Rock, Stone Cold, Triple H, Undertaker, and even HBK who were all very entertaining and talented for sure, but they were all trained in the States I believe.

Just because Danielson and Ki trained all around the world certainly does not mean others do to be considered good wrestlers. I mean that is like saying Undertaker can not wrestle because he did not learn from the Japanese fighters or Foreign fighters. A wrestler is supposed to have different moves than others and that is what makes this business unique and fun because we see all different kinds of wrestling whether it be old school wrestling, technical, fast-paced, grounded, hardcore, grapples, etc.

And BTW McIntyre and Sheamus began their wrestling careers in their respectful countries, so your information is a bit inaccurate there.

 

[The Duke]

There also isn't the territorial wrestling that there was back in the day. WCW and the WWF were still smallish at the time and in order to get INTO the business you had to "pay your dues" and travel all over the world to get recognized. Vince realizes talent at any level and as soon as he finds it he seals it up, sends it to FCW and bam. I think it's an ignorant statement to say that guys who have come from FCW and such haven't paid their dues. Most have, just not to the extent they used to but that's because they used to have to. Now they don't.

 

[schaeffershawn]

Just have to throw it out there, as one of the gusy your bring up as being of a dying breed is Bryan. Do you even know who trained him down in mephis? This guy William Regal who also did not spend a ton of time in mexico or japan for that matter. But he did wrestling In the UK for years. Should we turn down our nose at Regal although he is consdiered by many to be in that group of men like Benoit, Malenko, Gurerro and others. Or maybe just maybe American marks have been underexposed to European wrestling and overexpose to Mexican and Japan just a thought.