Just Leave.

[Motor City Mayhem]

I am an ECW Original fan, I watched the tail end of it, and have watched countless hours of it on YouTube, I loved it, when I saw ECW One Night Stand 2006 I thought cool, its back, finally some awesome Hardcore Wrestling, Tables being broken every night, I was looking forward to seeing Sabu, Sandman, Mahoney, RVD, The Dudley's, and most of all Tommy Dreamer.

But then Vince McMahon realized that ECW fans...Well just didn't love Cena the way WWE fans do, they hated him in fact, they booed him like he was Chris Jericho. So what does he do? He makes ECW the new FCW, takes The Extreme out of ECW and makes it crap. He fires all the guys, Stevie Richards, Sabu, Sandman, Mahoney, RVD leaves, Paul Heyman...Gone, I don't even think The Dudley's came back, Big Show left after a while, Kurt Angle...You see were I'm going? (Although Angle left not fired but he was on ECW)

But to my surprise when at the end of all this, Tommy Dreamer was left standing, still here in this crappy mess Vince calls ECW. Dreamer still here, not even Champ, just there, Jobbing to the new young guys, watching as they go over him and win the ECW Title or beat him then leave. In the 3 years that ECW has come back Dreamer has won the Title once, this year at ECW's Extreme Rules( Formally known as One Night Stand) and retained it at The Bash, but eventually losing it at Night Of Champions, and is now back to his old job doing Upper Mid Card Jobbing because Vince wants William Regal to be Main Eventing ECW with Christian and help the new guys.

Some of the originals stayed, had brief stints with WWE (Mahoney, Sandman) but then realized that it was stupid, others just left as soon as could (Sabu), so as I watch ECW (Which is not very often) I look at Tommy and think to myself, Why are you here? Why are you degrading yourself to this? Why not leave and go with your friends and leave like Sandman and Sabu why stay and job for newbies from FCW? WHY? WHY? WHY?

And then I realize why, he has heart, and pride, he stays on ECW because he doesn't want anything else, he doesn't want to go to Raw or Smackdown! he wants to stay on ECW, he loves ECW, its were he belongs, yet Vince is to big of an Ass wipe to even let him have a nice Title Run...Not that he really cares about ECW anyway, but Tommy is an Original.

So the question is, Should Dreamer leave?, should he finally realize that he can do better and just leave? or should Vince have the decency and either Fire him or give him the Title more often, or even just revamp ECW all together and bring back the old guys, make it original ECW?

P.S-- I get that the current ECW is good for newbies, but just because it would be Hardcore wrestling doesn't meen they can't develop there.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

When Vince brought ECW back, he wasn't going to bring the old ECW back. Those days are long and gone. I suspect he envisioned ECW as a training ground for young competitors so they can rise through the ranks to later be on Smackdown or RAW. Dreamer has been the only one who has stayed and that is loyalty if more than anything else. Sabu, Sandman, and Balls Mahoney outlived their usefulness and were released. ECW is doing fine and I don't see remnants of the old ECW creeping up anytime soon.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

Its is exactly as you put it. ECW = Tommy Dreamer. He is the heart & soul of ECW as pointed out many times by Joey Styles. Without TD on the show, the brand loses a lot of respect. Tommy is a man that grew up with his whole wrestling career in ECW & was loved by the fans for his contributions, despite only winning the ECW Championship for a mere 30 minutes.

Once ECW folded, Dreamer decided to head on over with the WWE & slowly manipulated his art form to the WWE's style of wrestling. It took a long time for him to get as over with the fans today & become an actual professional wrestler who didn't need any hardcore knowledge to keep his career alive. And now, the WWE fans respect him for his legacy & his contributions.

From what I have summarised, TD is a man of respect who will do anything for the things that brought him respect. Considering his professional wrestling career, it was ECW & WWE. So, since both are in the same company... why leave? Why go away from the things that help build him? Walking away from ECW & the WWE will mean the end of his career on the mainstream where he may turn into a Mickey Rourke from "The Wrestler" movie. So I believe Dreamer should stay with the WWE as he is still performing well under the WWE & is helping put over the kids that need the experience the most. He will do just fine as he is, assuming that his retirement angle goes well for him in a couple of years.

Let me put it to you in another way for those who disagree, TD is exactly like Kane. They both held one major world title for a short length of time, they put on great matches in the earlier part of their career & have become more like uppermidcard jobbers to put over the younger talent. Both men have all the respect in the world to the companies that gave them a chance & are all about the business. Would you want Kane to leave the WWE? What the answer is here is the exact same answer for TD.

 

[The Doctor]

Why would Tommy leave? He has a cushy job with the WWE, he's in a good position putting over younger stars, and just came off of a title reign. Life is going pretty well for Tommy right now.

I love old ECW as much as the next guy not named Slyfox, but those days are gone. New ECW is a lot more similar to Old ECW than people like you care to admit. No, every match isn't an extreme rules match, but they still have them sometimes. One of the main points of Old ECW was to put smaller name stars on the third company and give them some exposure before they hopefully moved up to the big time. This is what New ECW is doing, and you need to realize that.

As for Tommy, you make it sound like he'd be a world champ on SmackDown or RAW. WRONG! Tommy is getting on in years, and at least in ECW he's on a smaller brand. He's been involved in so many feuds and storylines, all to put a new guy over. He's getting TV time, while on SD or RAW all he'd get is a pink slip. At this point in his career, he's where he should be. Leaving would be the dumbest thing he could possibly do. Why give up financial security just because he's not getting thrown through a table on a weekly basis?

 

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

Boy oh boy, if I want to get to 200 anytime soon, i'll have to crawl my sorry ass out of the Bar Room. And pick apart some delightful thread like this.

I am an ECW Original fan, I watched the tail end of it, and have watched countless hours of it on YouTube, I loved it, when I saw ECW One Night Stand 2006 I thought cool, its back, finally some awesome Hardcore Wrestling, Tables being broken every night, I was looking forward to seeing Sabu, Sandman, Mahoney, RVD, The Dudley's, and most of all Tommy Dreamer.

Well that's very cool. Everyone loves hardcore wrestling. In 1996. ECW is dead, enjoy the old footage as a legacy. You can even see some of those favourite ECW wrestlers doing independent shows now. Dudleys in TNA of course as well.

But then Vince McMahon realized that ECW fans...Well just didn't love Cena the way WWE fans do, they hated him in fact, they booed him like he was Chris Jericho. So what does he do? He makes ECW the new FCW, takes The Extreme out of ECW and makes it crap.

Makes it crap? Where do you get off? ECW is one of my favourite shows. It's great, and if you weren't so centred on seeing some wrestlers being constantly put through a table for your amusement, you could see that. It's consistently a pretty good wrestling show, far from crap. Sorry that you don't see blood. go watch a Saw movie or something. I can't believe they made a 6th. Like sweet jesus! Thats milking a series.

He fires all the guys, Stevie Richards, Sabu, Sandman, Mahoney, RVD leaves, Paul Heyman...Gone, I don't even think The Dudley's came back, Big Show left after a while, Kurt Angle...You see were I'm going? (Although Angle left not fired but he was on ECW)

Well all those guys in bold are pretty much useless in the WWE. They can wrestle a good hardcore match to get people excited, but helping elevate younger stars with their "experience"? not really that useful. Except Setive Richard. He's the shit.

Big show left because of his weight and boxing career, RVD left because of his wifes battle with cancer. Hardly because ECW is the new "FCW". Since when was that a bad thing anyways? Helping young stars get over? Isn't that what the original ECw did anyways? Introduce luchadors to an american audience and debut some great fresh stars?

But to my surprise when at the end of all this, Tommy Dreamer was left standing, still here in this crappy mess Vince calls ECW. Dreamer still here, not even Champ, just there, Jobbing to the new young guys, watching as they go over him and win the ECW Title or beat him then leave. In the 3 years that ECW has come back Dreamer has won the Title once, this year at ECW's Extreme Rules( Formally known as One Night Stand) and retained it at The Bash, but eventually losing it at Night Of Champions, and is now back to his old job doing Upper Mid Card Jobbing because Vince wants William Regal to be Main Eventing ECW with Christian and help the new guys.

I thought the whole appeal of the original ECW was that Tommy Dreamer never won the big one. At least until heyman gave it to him for his long years of service. I hardly think giving him the belt would have been appropriate while pushing CM Punk or Matt Hardy or Bobby Lashley. His last run with the title was a good one for both him and the fans, but that all it needed to be. A bit of a tribute to Tommy Dreamer for his dedication to the brand and the company. Now he can get back to business at passing on his experience to future starts.

Some of the originals stayed, had brief stints with WWE (Mahoney, Sandman) but then realized that it was stupid,

Realised it was stupid? The biggest wrestling promotion in the world was stupid because they couldnt pull a cheese grater across each others faces?

others just left as soon as could (Sabu),

Sabu has entire video series dedicated to his botches on youtube. Thank god he left before he ended a career. With an arm drag or something.

so as I watch ECW (Which is not very often) I look at Tommy and think to myself, Why are you here? Why are you degrading yourself to this? Why not leave and go with your friends and leave like Sandman and Sabu why stay and job for newbies from FCW? WHY? WHY? WHY?

You just flawed you're whole argument there bub. you don't even watch the goddamn show regularly and you're saying that Tommy Dreamer is being misused. He's one of the top faces on the show. He lost to the 1# contender on ECw, not that goddamn 1# announcer on Smackdown, Funaki. But you wouldnt know, because you for some reason don't watch it.

And then I realize why, he has heart, and pride, he stays on ECW because he doesn't want anything else, he doesn't want to go to Raw or Smackdown! he wants to stay on ECW, he loves ECW, its were he belongs, yet Vince is to big of an Ass wipe to even let him have a nice Title Run...Not that he really cares about ECW anyway, but Tommy is an Original

He just had a title run. Like JUST then. Only a couple of PPV's ago. And I don't think he has much say on where he goes. They could move him to RAW or Smackdown if they wanted. But they realise he can do some good on ECW, and keep him there to help the younger wrestlers.

So the question is, Should Dreamer leave?, should he finally realize that he can do better and just leave? or should Vince have the decency and either Fire him or give him the Title more often, or even just revamp ECW all together and bring back the old guys, make it original ECW?

How much better could he do? He just got off a championship run, upper tier one at that, inthe worlds biggest wrestling promotion. No he shouldnt leave. At all, and ECW is fine the way it is.

P.S-- I get that the current ECW is good for newbies, but just because it would be Hardcore wrestling doesn't meen they can't develop there.

It sort of does. They don't like making the WWE title match at Wrestlemania a scaffold match. So having them on ECw wouldn't really help those wrestlers in the future.

 

[BernacK6]

Here is the main reason Dreamer should leave: HE SUCKS!!!!!

Dreamer doesn't have any drawing potential. No one here would buy a PPV because Dreamer is headlining it. Granted ECW isn't what it once was, but Dreamer has no place in professional wrestling any longer because he's not good at it. Because Vince has no competition, ECW does not need to be the edgy show it once was. It is a one hour weekly time slot for him to show us what is next. I personally think ECW is a good thing right now. It gives Vince a way to get guys on TV for showcasing purposes so that when they make an impact down the line, we all can figure out why they're doing this.

Above all, Tommy Dreamer sticking around as an ECW original is useless to me. He will never put on the kind of match that people think he can because he's not good at wrestling any more. He lacks charisma and the in-ring ability necessary to be in the ring. Give me more Sheamus.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

What people seem to forget about ECW is that it wasn't ALL extreme rules matches, ALL night, EVERY night. There was no DQs in every match, but that didn't mean they used weapons ALL the time. Take RVD v Lance Storm at Barely Legal. There's like 2 chair shots in the whole match and that was it. Everything else was simply wrestling. That card also had the Eliminators v The Dudleys for the tag titles, and they didn't use any weapons at all in that match, and they didn't in the Japanese 6 man tag later either.

What people also seem to forget, is that the new ECW DID have a load of extreme rules matches. They had a minimum of at least 1 a week, when the brand was first started and then they were slowly phased out, which to my knowledge, hasn't really impacted the ratings at all.

And what Eric has clearly forgotten is that guys like Mahoney and Sandman couldn't wrestle to save their lives, and guys like Sabu couldn't do it without a chair to jump off of.

Should Tommy Dreamer leave WWECW? No way, he's that brands equivalent to Taker or HBK for god sake. He's the legend that doesn't need to be in the ME all the time, and would be more beneficial to the company if he wasn't hogging the belt. Ok, Dreamer might not get months off at a time, but then they don't put him in a HIAC match once every year, or expect them to pull off ladder matches that are of the same quality as the one he had at WM 15 years ago, either.

If he's still got plenty of gas left in him, than i've no objection to watching Tommy Dreamer wrestle and i'll always pull for him, but there's no point in him getting upset about his position in the company. Do Finlay and Regal complain?

 

[WOLFPACK0524]

Loved the original post...

I remember hearing when Dreamer won the title originally in the Heyman ECW, that he never wanted a title. He lost it that night after winning it the same night. Giving it to him now was more for nostalgia and for the old fans of ECW. More for respect. It is when they give the honorary Oscar to an actor/actress etc.

I see Tommy falling into a GM of ECW role soon. Then maybe being involved in booking and training others but all in ECW.

I can't think of a more loyal man to a brand than him. If he was ever drafted elsewhere, I think there'd be a problem both with the fans and Tommy. He'd leave for TNA if that happens IMO.

 

[Karnuj]

I think tommy should just get up and go. drop back to the gm role they teased it in the storylines for one of the games, just run with it. what a lot of people forget is dreamer for the longest time wasnt on wwe tv but training guys in ovw and working as an agent. for a great period of time between the invasion angle and the re-emergence of ECW tommy wasnt on either show but helping behind the scenes. I like tommy but i just couldnt picture him amongst the up and comers. though his match with regal was excellent the other night it renewed hope that dreamer still has the ability to entertain i would just rather see him in a role that doesn't accentuate his body being completely beat up.

 

[CJ The Pirate]

Why do people insist on saying things like "ECW would only be good if it was Extreme"

ECW is just a name. It stood originally for Eastern Championship Wrestling, It wasn't until later that the word and theme of extreme came to pass.

ECW is just a wrestling show. Raw is just a wrestling show. Noone says Raw is crap because it isn't extreme. Why is ECW any different.

If WWE Superstars was the third brand, noone would ever say anything like this. Get your heads out of the past. Accept ECW as a wrestling show and stop waiting for a table to be used or a chair shot.

 

[YoYoYumba]

I don't care for ECW anymore simply because it shouldn't be called ECW. It's supposed to be extreme but it's anything but extreme. I haven't watched ECW for a long time but from reading results etc I can ascertain that it's still the same old lame crap. Until it actions becomes extreme I will never watch it. Oh and Dreamer does suck.

 

[whojgov32]

I'm guessing Tommy Dreamer stays for like the $150,000 a year he makes compared to the $10,000 he made in 1995

 

[JJohns]

Hey,

For everyone that thinks that the Old ECW was all that, you need to realize that it wasn't. Yes, it featured great performers. Yes, it featured wrestling that you weren't seeing anywhere else in the United States. But at the end of the day, ECW was a business that failed. When it declared bankruptcy, it had over a million in assets and almost 9 million in debt. It was unable to pay it's performers. It was unable to pay the television stations that carried the show. It was unable to pay the arenas that they worked in.

The fact that Tommy Dreamer, who was SO SYNONYMOUS with the Old ECW style was able to make a transition into the WWE style shows the heart that he has. The fact that when his in-ring WWE career was over (the first tenure) he transitioned into a backstage role and was helping out the young talent in other ways just shows why he won't leave ECW until he's ready to.

 

[jbwphoto1]

In front of our plasma set the question isn't why doesn't he leave, but why hasn't Vince gotten rid of him. My husband asks me this at least once a week. My only response is that either Tommy owns the initials ECW (j.k.) or he knows something about Vince McMahon that the rest of us don't.

I know sometimes it hurts to see your favorite burger joint torn down to put up a highrise, but change happens. Get with it or get left behind. Tommy's not getting left behind.

 

[CyrusTheVirus=ECW]

Wow...another thread about original ECW. im gonna say give some advice...Stop living in the past and Start living in the Now!!! that old ECW was great dont get me wrong. but that was then and it was Paul Heymans ECW. this is Vince's ECW. and extreme is not about chairs,singapore canes,tables, ect. its also about high flying, breath taking maneuvers.

And why do you say Vince dosent care about ECW? did he say that? i dont think so. if vince didnt care about it he wouldnt have brought it back, some call the new ECW the new version of heat, at least ECW has a world title, vince does care about it. plus ECW has the best wrestling in the WWE. i enjoy getting a good hour of wrestling. so i dont really see how Vince dosent care about ECW if he obviously does. yes ECW has become the training grounds but i think its great to see young wrestlers working to become the future of the WWE. its fresh young talent not HHH,Cena,Orton in the main event every week.

As for Dreamer well it sucks he losed the title but he has passion for the buisness and i dont think its all about the title to him. he's not like guys like HHH and Cena who continue to demand title shots.

With all that said, this new ECW is fine and i dont think Dreamer should leave just becuase this isnt the old ECW and he has been a jobber to about everyone on the roster, like i said...he still has that passion to wrestle

 

[y2empleh]

Ok first off, most of the ECW guys you referred to (Sandman and Sabu) didn't leave. They were FIRED for being unreliable, no-showing, etc. Their priorities weren't with the company but rather with fulfilling their drug and alcohol needs.

There is a reason why ECW went under where as WWE succeeded. Every single guy in ECW was waiting around to get called up to the WWF/E or WCW and get the bigger paychecks. People need to understand that the wrestler and other staff do this not only for a passion for the business but also because they need paychecks. They have to feed themselves and give food and clothing to their wives/husbands/kids/etc. Yes they were willing to sacrifice their bodies through tables and being nailed with chairs barbed wire but only to get over enough with the fans that they get noticed by one of the bigger paycheck giving companies. Doing all of that "extreme" stuff takes years off not only your career but also your life.

Now going back to your original point of "should dreamer leave WWE?" My question is why? what other options does dreamer have? While yes Dreamer is a legend among ECW fans, he's not enough of a recognizable name for TNA nor is he honestly that skilled of a wrestler. Dreamer is only good in hardcore matches. Eventually he will likely settle into either a GM role or a backstage road agent role. Cushy job with a big paycheck that also allows him to give back to a wrestling industry that has treated him well through the years.

 

[BernacK6]

Should Tommy Dreamer leave WWECW? No way, he's that brands equivalent to Taker or HBK for god sake. He's the legend that doesn't need to be in the ME all the time, and would be more beneficial to the company if he wasn't hogging the belt. Ok, Dreamer might not get months off at a time, but then they don't put him in a HIAC match once every year, or expect them to pull off ladder matches that are of the same quality as the one he had at WM 15 years ago, either.

Please don't compare Tommy Dreamer to HBK or Taker. Please don't. Dreamer has never been at the top of the card, even in original ECW. He was always second fiddle. Always.

 

[Crush1]

You know someone as old as Tommy Dreamer cant really blend into society and just get a job. And as the economy is right now I dont think Dreamer will be quiting ECW. The man's only desire is to just wrestle. He's a great guy and he has no problem jobbing and putting younger talent over. It's not Tommy's fault for anything the writing staff puts him through. Right now Tommy's looking stronger than ever. I don't believe the rumor the main site posted. Dreamer has been booked far too strong lately to be putting some talent over. And I hope he really doesn't get screwed. But if he does become a jobber, his family, financial status and his health will get better. Anyway It's all up to Tommy. But I'm thinking that he will stay with the WWE. No matter what they put him through.

 

[Nate DaMac]

You know what, I'm starting to see why Slyfox is, well the way he is to put it bluntly. This is a crock of shit. Fuck the Original ECW. Fuck everything about it. They had edgy storylines and hardcore wrestling. Guess what? The WWE straight up stole it and made it 10 times better than Paul Heyman could ever dream of. They put on hardcore matches, and did it with actual wrestlers, as opposed to ECW who seemed like they were rummaging through homeless shelters and alleys finding people who would risk their life for fuckin 10 bucks. Should Dreamer leave? Why? So he could make a bunch of smarks happy by "sticking it to the man?" Guess what, Tommy has a fucking family to feed. You can't buy groceries with smark cred. Dreamer has an ideal role in wrestling atm. He gets to be on tv on a regular basis and make a nice living. Why the fuck should he give that up? Give me one logical reason. While were at it, to those win think he should be fired, why? He isn't a draw? Well neither is 80% of the fucking roster.

 

[SavageTaker]

Why would he leave? So he can make some smarks happy that he left the company that bought ECW and removed the extreme wrestling? Right now he is working for the number one company in the world. Let me repeat that one more time, he is working for the number one company in the world. Not the number one company in America or North America and not even the Western Hemisphere but the number one in the entire world. There is absolutely no company that is bigger than the WWE at the moment and I am sure that Tommy is happy he was given a chance to work for them. Tommy loves wrestling, it is his passion and he is happily doing what he loves. He isn’t going to suddenly leave just because some smarks want him to. He gets to do what he loves, he gets to do in the number one company in the world, and he gets paid very good money. There is no good reason for him to leave unless he feels burnt out or just doesn’t have the passion for pro-wrestling that he once had. But wait, some smarks want him to leave so he should listen to them and do it because they know what’s right for him and what isn’t.

 

[Blade]

Anyone who expected Vince's ECW to be like original ECW for more than a few months is just naiive beyond words.
Logically, it wouldn't work because original ECW didn't work the first time around, it went out of business. So why would Vince try to re-establish a promotion that went under the first time around? Sure it wouldn't fail while Vince was running it, but it would've still made a loss.
An to be honest, the ECW now is more like the original ECW. The original ECW found wrestlers from around the world, got them noticed and then they left for bigger things. Sound familiar? Yeah, that's ECW now.

As for Dreamer, he's not particularly needed. He's old and fat and he can't put on a good match unless it's some sort of hardcore/extreme rules/street fight etc.. match. Christian tried to carry Dreamer in their matches, but the matches just weren't great.
ECW has a few experienced guys in Christian, Regal and Benjamin. All of whom are better than Dreamer.
I don't care if he's an ECW original. Sure, ECW was fine back in the day, but it's gone, get over it. So what if he's the last part of the original ECW and if he leaves it'll be all gone? You ECW fans should be happy that WWE let any ECW guys stay around for so long. If it wasn't for WWE, any trace of ECW would've been gone back in 2001.

 

[Spunky]

Has anyone ever thought that Dreamer doesn't want to wrestle in hardcore matches anymore, Well except for the odd one, Or two? Face it he's getting old, He's not amazing to watch compared to his old days. He is also fetching a huge amount of money, Alot more than he would be earning if he was to join CZW, We all know that's what every ECW mark would want.

In ECW Tommy is classed as the legend, The guy to look up to, Because of his passion for the sport. He was a glorified jobber before picking up the title, Just like Shawn Michaels. Why is that so bad? He puts over newer talent, While keeping his heat, He's perfect for that role, He is ECW's Shawn Michaels. He will enhance talent, And get the occasional title shot.

You should be happy for him.