John Cena Superstar = Myth

[multiverseman.com]

I'm about tired of hearing this one tossed around so often, this idea that John Cena is the be-all, end-all of the WWE revenue. He generates so many dollars and sells so much merchandise that he's the "man". He's the franchise of the company and that idea can't be disputed, argued with, or changed. Well I say he ain't that popular. Yeah I said it.

He's the current king of a dying kingdom. The ratings are in the toilet, as are the buyrates. In 2001, the year WCW kicked the bucket, they started the year pulling 3.1's. Those ratings killed them. WWE with Cena the Barbarian recently pulled a 2.9. Something is wrong.

Yeah well, the seven year olds love Cena tho right? What seven year olds? Where are these kids? I see a bunch in the front row, but I've never EVER met a 7, 10, or 12 year old kids who liked John Cena. I saw one kid wearing his shirt once. I've seen several with Orton shirts and even many Stone Cold ones still. I'm sure they exist somewhere, but I fail to buy that there's this massive fanbase of little kids watching wrestling who love John Cena. Kids, by and large, don't watch wrestling. It's stupid to them.

His movies all flopped. Well, what about the merchandise? Cena doesn't sell Rock-level merchandise, or Austin in his prime merchandise. I'm sure he sells a bunch, but who wouldn't with how hard they're behind him? Meanwhile, the top selling shirt of the past month or two belongs to.....CM Punk. Not John Cena. So why not rush his headbands, hats, shirts, wallets, keychains? Why not put the machine behind him? They struck gold, why not go with it? Instead they're trying to make him look like a whiner who is just mad that he isn't Cena.

Yeah, it's another Cena thread. So what? He's important. He's worth talking about. He's worth tweaking and not sticking behind something that isn't working as well as it could be. People don't go out there and boo John Cena because he's controversial. Or because they think he's a bad person. They boo because they care and he's boring them to death with his corny character.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I'm about tired of hearing this one tossed around so often, this idea that John Cena is the be-all, end-all of the WWE revenue. He generates so many dollars and sells so much merchandise that he's the "man". He's the franchise of the company and that idea can't be disputed, argued with, or changed. Well I say he ain't that popular. Yeah I said it.

Well, who else currently is that popular especially in the mainstream media? Who does make more money for Vince? Give me somebody.

He's the current king of a dying kingdom. The ratings are in the toilet, as are the buyrates. In 2001, the year WCW kicked the bucket, they started the year pulling 3.1's. Those ratings killed them. WWE with Cena the Barbarian recently pulled a 2.9. Something is wrong.

Oh yeah. That all has to be because of Cena. I mean the ratings have nothing to do with the events that happened in June of 2007. That couldn't be one of the reasons. It all has to be John Cena. Damn him.

Yeah well, the seven year olds love Cena tho right? What seven year olds? Where are these kids? I see a bunch in the front row, but I've never EVER met a 7, 10, or 12 year old kids who liked John Cena. I saw one kid wearing his shirt once. I've seen several with Orton shirts and even many Stone Cold ones still. I'm sure they exist somewhere, but I fail to buy that there's this massive fanbase of little kids watching wrestling who love John Cena. Kids, by and large, don't watch wrestling. It's stupid to them.

Wrestlings caters to two people. Children and idiots. I assume you are the latter.

His movies all flopped. Well, what about the merchandise? Cena doesn't sell Rock-level merchandise, or Austin in his prime merchandise. I'm sure he sells a bunch, but who wouldn't with how hard they're behind him? Meanwhile, the top selling shirt of the past month or two belongs to.....CM Punk. Not John Cena. So why not rush his headbands, hats, shirts, wallets, keychains? Why not put the machine behind him? They struck gold, why not go with it? Instead they're trying to make him look like a whiner who is just mad that he isn't Cena.

CM Punk sure is striking gold isn't he? Ratings haven't drastically increased since Punk started talking about stuff 90% of the crowd have no clue about.

Yeah, it's another Cena thread. So what? He's important. He's worth talking about. He's worth tweaking and not sticking behind something that isn't working as well as it could be. People don't go out there and boo John Cena because he's controversial. Or because they think he's a bad person. They boo because they care and he's boring them to death with his corny character.

Or they boo him because it's the cool thing to do. I didn't see everybody booing DX reuniting for the 1000th time. Trust me. You can find 100 things that are stale and they aren't booed as much as Cena.

 

[mikde_]

Oh man! Another Anti-Cena thread! really?

First off, The reason that ratings are not what they used to be is not because of the superstars or the booking or whatever, it is simply because Wrestling is not as popular as it once was. WWE could put on the greatest show ever and would the ratings be up? Probably not because the demand for wrestling as a whole is not what it was in the attitude era.

I also find it funny how you say that cena does not sell a great amount of merch? have you got any facts what so ever to back that up?

Fact of the matter is that Cena is the hardest working guy in WWE and like it or not he is biggest name in pro wrestling today and has pretty much carried WWE for the past 7 years. Sure he could be tweaked here or there but why change the formula if its working? He makes alot of money for that company and if your expecting a heel turn then think again. WWE or Make a Wish aint gonna turn their biggest wish granter to a "Bad Guy".

Cena has earned everything he has got and what people seem to forget is that in wrestling wether you are being cheered or booed, that is still a reaction and this boring character that you are talking about has got a reaction out of you.

 

[rge2010]

Hang on, Punk has JUST outsold Cena on shirts? Wow, give Punk the ball and let him carry the company then!!! Punk is hot at the MOMENT, Cena has been carrying the company the last 5/6 years.

I aint a Cena fan by any means but WWE needs him, like it or not. And he is much more valuable in merchandise sales, PPV buys, TV ratings than Punk has ever been and probably ever will be.

Truth hurts.

 

[houstorm]

I'm only going to jump into the "Hardest working guy in the WWE" aspect; because honestly how do you know that? It's the company line that several people have been disciplined for questioning in the past. Does he work hard, I'm sure of it, but does he do exponentially more than anyone else in the WWE? Probably not. Also, whether you like him or not, the face of the WWE in the mainstream media at this point is probably more The Miz than John Cena.

 

[Owlzfan84]

He is clearly a superstar. He is known by a lot of people who dont even watch wrestling. He sells a ton of merchandise and not one person does more Make a Wish appearances then him.

Whats a myth for the most part is this perception that one man equals the entire draw of a show. Raw is a 2 hour program. Cena is on for about 20 of those minutes. It doesn't matter how good one person is, if the rest of the show is average, not interesting, and sporadic, the ratings wont be great. Austin was a heck of draw, but the difference then was he was on an overall better show from top to bottom. That's one thing i liked about the attitude era. A lot more time was used to develop midcard feuds which made the wrestlers on the under card more important. The Tag team division then was gold, their were top feuds for the IC belt, the hardcore title was fun, and the divas division was better. Now there is no tag division, the divas arent as good, the wwe throws around the IC/US belt like its nothing, and there are rarely any noteworthy undercard feuds.

 

[Miz_Mark]

He's the current king of a dying kingdom. The ratings are in the toilet, as are the buyrates. In 2001, the year WCW kicked the bucket, they started the year pulling 3.1's. Those ratings killed them.

Your post is full of errors, but this is the one I really feel must be addressed, because it is flat out wrong. Ratings did not kill WCW. WCW was still a profitable company pulling in ratings that by cable standards are quite good. What killed WCW was AOL merging with Warner and not wanting anything to do with wrestling. Period. The company could have continued as a viable, money making outfit for a long time to come if the corporate think didn't decide wrestling = bad.

WWE is not a dying kingdom, yes it is far from its peak, but in case you weren't aware, wrestling's mainstream appeal is cyclical. Sometimes it's very hot, sometimes it's very not. WWE ratings may be a far cry below their height, but they are still high enough to make their networks very happy, and WWE is still bringing in the bank. And whether you, or I, or anyone else likes it, a significant portion of that money is because of John Cena.

And, while I'm at it, you haven't seen many kids who are big fans of Cena? You haven't seen? Whoa, what a valid, scientific measurement that is. I mean, obviously your personal experiences in your own limited circle of knowledge applies to society as a whole. After all, that is why I can say with absolute certainty that 100% of households in existence live in 3 bedroom homes with 2 pets... Seriously, dude, learn how statistic and reality work. Your anecdotal experiences represent not only a paltry small sample size, but a non-random sampling, and as such conclusions regarding the population as a whole cannot be drawn from your sample set.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

I'm about tired of hearing this one tossed around so often, this idea that John Cena is the be-all, end-all of the WWE revenue. He generates so many dollars and sells so much merchandise that he's the "man". He's the franchise of the company and that idea can't be disputed, argued with, or changed. Well I say he ain't that popular. Yeah I said it.

He's the current king of a dying kingdom. The ratings are in the toilet, as are the buyrates. In 2001, the year WCW kicked the bucket, they started the year pulling 3.1's. Those ratings killed them. WWE with Cena the Barbarian recently pulled a 2.9. Something is wrong.

Yeah well, the seven year olds love Cena tho right? What seven year olds? Where are these kids? I see a bunch in the front row, but I've never EVER met a 7, 10, or 12 year old kids who liked John Cena. I saw one kid wearing his shirt once. I've seen several with Orton shirts and even many Stone Cold ones still. I'm sure they exist somewhere, but I fail to buy that there's this massive fanbase of little kids watching wrestling who love John Cena. Kids, by and large, don't watch wrestling. It's stupid to them.

His movies all flopped. Well, what about the merchandise? Cena doesn't sell Rock-level merchandise, or Austin in his prime merchandise. I'm sure he sells a bunch, but who wouldn't with how hard they're behind him? Meanwhile, the top selling shirt of the past month or two belongs to.....CM Punk. Not John Cena. So why not rush his headbands, hats, shirts, wallets, keychains? Why not put the machine behind him? They struck gold, why not go with it? Instead they're trying to make him look like a whiner who is just mad that he isn't Cena.

Yeah, it's another Cena thread. So what? He's important. He's worth talking about. He's worth tweaking and not sticking behind something that isn't working as well as it could be. People don't go out there and boo John Cena because he's controversial. Or because they think he's a bad person. They boo because they care and he's boring them to death with his corny character.

I'm not a fan of Cena by any means, I have illustrated this rather well in my previous postings, but this sentiment I just have a hard time agreeing with, yes you are right WCW's dying days had better ratings than some editions of RAW there's no doubt about that, but WWE's stronger in other areas now with these lighter ratings than they were ten years ago. There were no musical chairs with upper management in WWF like there was with WCW during its dying years. This isn't to slight WCW because I enjoyed watching it even in its crappier times but they did have that established hierarchy like WWF/E clearly had then and still has now. With the fact that TNA is still not a competitor and is only an alternative for fans not into the goods WWE is selling and the fact that like I mentioned other areas of WWE (their international affairs having offices in other countries, their licensing and merchandise) are still strong and despite the lower viewership, there's no doubt that a guy like Cena in today's era can still be considered a success, granted I'm not sold on even his movie career but to be fair despite not being critically acclaimed work the guy has still managed to have a couple of theatrically released films not too bad for someone who's a full-time WWE star.

He is clearly this generation's people's choice. While I will not put him in the same category of The Rock, Steve Austin or Hulk Hogan the guy still offers something to the fans whether I like it or not.

I can't agree with your stance despite my sentiments towards The Doctor Of Thuganomics even in an era where things have changed and viewership is not what it used to be, Cena is still the man. Period.

 

[rokuma]

I have to say I agree with the idea of this thread. Cena is popular, but he's not THAT popular. Let me explain:

When you think of the guys who have carried the WWF(E)'s banner of the years, you think of mainstream guys like Hulk Hogan, The Rock, Steve Austin...Cena just isn't like that. He does cater to the kids (even making an appearance the Kids Choice Awards), but he's not transcending media and the mainstream like Hogan did with movies (and everyone knowing his name), or like Austin when everyone wanted to be like him, or the Rock and his permanently leaving wrestling for movies. I don't see John Cena as this type of superstar.

Then there were the other guys that carried the WWF(E)'s banner after Hogan...Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Diesel, the British Bulldog, The Undertaker....notice anything about these guys? They are all wrestling legends, but they didn't transcend the media like Hogan, Rock, and Austin (the true megastars of the WWF). I see John Cena in this role...in fact, I see him a lot like Triple H. He's devoted to the business, loves it, a big draw for wrestling fans, but not a big enough draw to get people outside of wrestling to say, "Wow, maybe I should check that out since [insert wrestler's name] is wrestling!" I think the only guy that could have that effect in WWE right now is CM Punk and has generated curiosity to some degree (appearing on TMZ's website and The BS Report with The Sports Guy). Given more time, Punk might be the next Hogan or Austin or Rock, but Cena? He's been on top too long and hasn't transcended the way they have. Is it a bad thing? No, I don't think so. In fact, it's probably better business for the WWE. Would you rather have megastars like Hogan, Austin, and Rock who are created and then leave the business altogether or top wrestling draws like Triple H, Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker, and Cena who will always be around and can still draw in true wrestling fans? I think I'd go with the latter, but please...let's stop pretending Cena is the next Austin or Rock. Cena is just a high-drawing wrestler and not the megastar he's made out to be....and that's okay.

 

[BK Styles]

How big an idiot are you? Cena is WWE's most valuable superstar. He is the one who brings the majority of the money that they get in. Even the most pure hater of John Cena cannot deny this.

Remember that Wrestling just isn't as popular as it used to be. As such, the merch doesn't shift as much. But over the last 6 years, John Cena has been THE cashcow of the WWE.

And you wanna know where the kids are? Everywhere he goes, he has a mixed reaction; a loud, high pitched chorus of cheers followed quickly by a heavier, lower-toned chorus of boos.

Punk is my favorite superstar. And he is currently very popular. But he's the current flavour of the month. Cena is on top, and has been consistently there since he rose to the top of the mountain. Period.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I have to say I agree with the idea of this thread. Cena is popular, but he's not THAT popular. Let me explain:

When you think of the guys who have carried the WWF(E)'s banner of the years, you think of mainstream guys like Hulk Hogan, The Rock, Steve Austin...Cena just isn't like that. He does cater to the kids (even making an appearance the Kids Choice Awards), but he's not transcending media and the mainstream like Hogan did with movies (and everyone knowing his name), or like Austin when everyone wanted to be like him, or the Rock and his permanently leaving wrestling for movies. I don't see John Cena as this type of superstar.



Then there were the other guys that carried the WWF(E)'s banner after Hogan...Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Diesel, the British Bulldog, The Undertaker....notice anything about these guys? They are all wrestling legends, but they didn't transcend the media like Hogan, Rock, and Austin (the true megastars of the WWF). I see John Cena in this role...in fact, I see him a lot like Triple H. He's devoted to the business, loves it, a big draw for wrestling fans, but not a big enough draw to get people outside of wrestling to say, "Wow, maybe I should check that out since [insert wrestler's name] is wrestling!" I think the only guy that could have that effect in WWE right now is CM Punk and has generated curiosity to some degree (appearing on TMZ's website and The BS Report with The Sports Guy). Given more time, Punk might be the next Hogan or Austin or Rock, but Cena? He's been on top too long and hasn't transcended the way they have. Is it a bad thing? No, I don't think so. In fact, it's probably better business for the WWE. Would you rather have megastars like Hogan, Austin, and Rock who are created and then leave the business altogether or top wrestling draws like Triple H, Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker, and Cena who will always be around and can still draw in true wrestling fans? I think I'd go with the latter, but please...let's stop pretending Cena is the next Austin or Rock. Cena is just a high-drawing wrestler and not the megastar he's made out to be....and that's okay.

Hold on a minute. You're saying that Cena, a guy who has starred in three or four movies and made countless appearances on all different kinds of TV shows, cannot transcend but yet a guy like CM Punk who probably isn't even in the top 10 as far as name recognition by casual fans can?

 

[akrassikauda]

I was wondering when the Cena hate thread was going to start up it hasn't been seen on the forums the past few days. Last week there was one every day with the same tired argument.

There are plenty of factors why the ratings are down let's take a look at some of them

1) There are about 300 more channels today than it was with the Overrated Era

2) PPV buyrates are down partly because of finances. It's the economy stupid. John and Jane have to make financial sacrifices so that means Lil Jimmy can't watch 7 $50 PPV's a year

3) PPV buyrates and ratings are also down because anyone with internet access can just stream it thus watch for free plus let's not forget that dirty word *SPOILERS*

4) The Most Underrated aspect in my opinion why things have changed and smarks don't realize is The Forgotten Monday Night War. While WWE was doing battle with WCW from August to January both companies were in a ratings war with Monday Night Football. ABC was getting beat up every Monday night from 7:57pm - 11:15pm and the NFL took notice of this. Before they could put any 2 teams against each other the NFL and ABC knew the ratings were going to be good until the Monday Night War began.

Now with no WCW standing in the way just WWE the NFL moved MNF to ESPN changed the schedule to only good teams or playoff caliber matchups does put a dent in the WWE ratings. Depending on how a game is going determines now more than before who's watching what on Monday nights. Last night I was switching channels once I knew the Patriots had the game in the bag I kept the tv on RAW. That's the dilemma WWE finds themselves in now. If it's not a compelling matchup or a blowout WWE is in trouble.

If you put together all these factors 3.1 - 4.0 ratings every week there are a lot of people who would kill for those numbers so it is not Cena's fault that ratings are down it is a collection of things out of WWE's control so pick another argument.

 

[rokuma]

Hold on a minute. You're saying that Cena, a guy who has starred in three or four movies and made countless appearances on all different kinds of TV shows, cannot transcend but yet a guy like CM Punk who probably isn't even in the top 10 as far as name recognition by casual fans can?

Let's be fair...all of Cena's movies are WWE Films and really have been flops (like someone else on here said). As far as his countless appearances on TV shows, there are 10 as a performer on a TV series or movie and around 30-40 as himself...

CM Punk? I doubt he has any...but I'm saying that of the two guys, CM Punk has that style that could potentially transcend media. Remember, Austin's "Austin 3:16" speech didn't immediately propel him to the main event and to superstardom...it took around 2 years for him to reach his peak. Cena has been on top for a while, but just doesn't have that same appeal as the megastars (Austin, Rock, Hogan) do. In fact, a lot of his appearances were like Hannah Montana and the Kids Choice Awards. It's very similar to 1996 when Shawn Michaels was "the guy" and appeared on things like the Jenny Jones show. It was nice and it was exposure, but it didn't make him a megastar, just a star.

(Note: I got all of the info from IMDB.com)

 

[RD_21]

Wow TC, finally someone who think like me but watch out I should give you a shield because you will be called an idiot here, someone who doesn't think before posting and other random shit.

I agree with you, Cena is the king of a dying kingdom he is TOTALY right. You guys will call us dumb because wrestling isn't as popular, well don't you realise that it's all connected?

Why is wrestling not as popular? Because there's better thing you will say because of UFC, because of this and that. You guys are seeing that there's some things that are more popular than wrestling, but why is wrestling not more popular. You guys are looking for excuses.

Of course Cena is the best thing but I have said it in many other post, maybe something could be better than Cena, but if you don't try.

You guys will say it was more popular in the attitude era, but do you think the attitue era is responsible for Austin and Rock popularity or is it the other way around or maybe a little bit of both.

Cena shouldn't be blamed but it's true that Cena shouldn't be the be all end all that he is. Of course at the moment you have nothing better but every time we use the 3's ratings we get called idiot saying things changed over the last year, but if you had more appealing superstars instead of only one with star power there could be better ratings. One don't go without the other in my opinion.

John Cena appealed to the majority of the current crowd, but maybe, just maybe, he isn't to the other half of the crowd who left over the years. WWE was doing 6's in the ratings.

For the PPV I can give you some slack because personally I refuse to pay 50$ for a PPV, bring them down to 30-40 and I will buy them all but not 50 and I am sure a lot of people think like me.

Anyway Cena is the best thing that WWE has right now but it doesn't mean that something else couldn't be better (and it doesn't even have to be without Cena, if they had 2 or 3 guys as over as Cena with him it would help the product).

 

[holdingholder]

Let me school you a bit on how ratings work. In the years 2000-2001 you had about 100 million total tv viewers in the USA. Each ratings point counts as 1% of the total viewers in the country. So in 2000 a 5.0 would equal 5milion viewers. Now fast forward to this year, there are about 130 million people watching tv, so 1 rating point is 1.3 million viewers, so those 3.1- 3.2 that raw are pulling IS THE SAME NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT ALWAYS WATCHED RAW! People always get hung up on how the WWE has lost so many viewers, and some people (like you) try to blame it on Cena. Don't believe me here's a chart that shows the same amount of people watching Raw during the precious attitude era.
http://www.mediapost.com/publications/index.cfm?fa=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=10285

 

[Davi323]

this is a very simple argument. If John Cena wasn't exceptionally good for business, he wouldn't be a bazillion time champion. (okay, maybe a bazillion is a bit of an exaggeration). But exaggeration aside, the point remains. John Cena, as the public face of the WWE, brings them lots of money. If he didn't, they wouldn't use him as that public face. DUH.

 

[ECWDanSelby]

Fair play to the OP here.

For the first time, last night, I kind of had the same feeling.

It was during the Triple H promo where any time he mentioned Cena, he was just getting boo's, whereas Punk was getting good reactions.

Now don't jump all over me here, because I know full well that it's sometimes the other way round.

But of course Cena should be getting those reactions. YES, the guy's worked hard, but no one can argue that he hasn't had the perfect pedastal for his act. He has been rammed down our throats since 2006 (whether you're a fan, or not - that's pretty much fact).

Is Cena REALLY the be-all-and-end-all? For once, i'm not certain.

Have they genuinely experimented in ramming someone down our throats as much as they have done with Cena?

Sure, why would you risk anything otherwise? But then you have to ask yourself, are you happy with 3.0 ratings? How long can you continue with that? "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" right? But when's "broke"?

The concept of the 'king of the dying kingdom' is very interesting. Sure, things arn't falling apart at the seems, by any means. But a little something called MMA has been breathing heavily down the necks of WWE for some time. Now I know we can go on til we're blue in the face that "MMA and wrestling are two different things", but the bottom line is we must look towards the future generations. WWE cannot rest on their laurels. MMA is cool and appeals to the 'Attitude Era' style of audience we had 10 or so years ago. It was fashionable, and you wern't ashamed to be a fan.

MMA is now a genuine threat (what with going live), and we've seen WWE panic (as much as a multi million dollar company can, anyway) with hotshotting angles and whatnot. They've clearly started taking more creative risks (look at Punk's semi-shoot character, for example).

Maybe it's time to start shoving some different guys down our throats for the next few years. The crowds arn't cheering John Cena week in week out, it's now inconsistent.

Look at Hogan in WCW. The guy was starting to get mixed reactions, so what did they do? Pull the damn trigger and hit the 'refresh' button.

I can only hope WWE is warming Punk up to be our next, modern day Cena (without the cheesiness, but I think they're learning that lesson) while using Cena in a different way - as the biggest heel in wrestling today.

I hope this doesn't come across as another "Punk f'n rulz, cena shuld turn heel!!!" post, because i've genuinely given this some deep thought since last night and since reading this post.

Selby

 

[S.J. Maximus]

Anyone who doesn't see that Cena is the king of a dying kingdom needs to get their eyes checked. I don't necessarily think the OP is blaming the dying kingdom on Cena because, as everyone has mentioned in this thread, it's completely unfair and somewhat idiotic to do so. It's not Cena's fault by any means that the ratings suck and that wrestling is barely popular anymore and back to its laughing stock status of mainstream media. However, the fact that Cena is the top draw in wrestling during this state would take away his credibility as an all-time great. How is a top draw who got ratings of 7.3 on the same level of the top draw who gets ratings of 3.0? It's simple mathematics, although it may not be his fault it's still the case.

He's a superstar and a top draw, that is not a myth. But all-time great? Yeah I'd say that's pretty mythical.

 

[trinidad716]

Cena is the Hulk Hogan of his time, Not saying he is Hulk but the eras comparable star. Period. I think the issue with Cena is he gets blamed for things that are out of his control. Ratings drop IS NOT his fault. There are many factors to ratings drop in Wrestling. Star factor is one in general there are Less main event quality stars i say is #1

the territory system is dead and WWE gets mainly their own talent. You have smaller guys in the ring now also, Pre steriods you had HUGE Gladiators in the ring that was a draw.

Also you have the internet making killing alot of the buzz its hard to anticipate whats good,

12-14 PPV a year will drop buy rates also, TOO MANY PPV

Times are also different. TV in general got better ratings for alot of programming in the late 90's in the pre broadband internet era.

I wouldn't call WWE failing tho. Time are diff and it keeps getting compared to a time where the entire world was different.

But Cena is just the most popular of his time thats it live with. I love how the IWC always seems to think they can make the WWE more profitable.

 

[AnthonyM4]

Let me school you a bit on how ratings work. In the years 2000-2001 you had about 100 million total tv viewers in the USA. Each ratings point counts as 1% of the total viewers in the country. So in 2000 a 5.0 would equal 5milion viewers. Now fast forward to this year, there are about 130 million people watching tv, so 1 rating point is 1.3 million viewers, so those 3.1- 3.2 that raw are pulling IS THE SAME NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT ALWAYS WATCHED RAW! People always get hung up on how the WWE has lost so many viewers, and some people (like you) try to blame it on Cena. Don't believe me here's a chart that shows the same amount of people watching Raw during the precious attitude era.
http://www.mediapost.com/publications/index.cfm?fa=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=10285

This is very interesting. I didn't know that getting a 3.0 today was like getting a 5.0 back in 2000. I always thought that the reason they are getting 3s these days is because their product is a joke and Cena shouldn't be the guy to push. I think that out of all the guys on the roster he is probably the most popular, but I don't think he is in the caliber of Hogan, Rock, or Stone Cold. I don't think there are too many non-wrestling fans today who know John Cena, but those same people would remember the 3 guys I mentioned.

 

[RD_21]

Let me school you a bit on how ratings work. In the years 2000-2001 you had about 100 million total tv viewers in the USA. Each ratings point counts as 1% of the total viewers in the country. So in 2000 a 5.0 would equal 5milion viewers. Now fast forward to this year, there are about 130 million people watching tv, so 1 rating point is 1.3 million viewers, so those 3.1- 3.2 that raw are pulling IS THE SAME NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT ALWAYS WATCHED RAW! People always get hung up on how the WWE has lost so many viewers, and some people (like you) try to blame it on Cena. Don't believe me here's a chart that shows the same amount of people watching Raw during the precious attitude era.
http://www.mediapost.com/publications/index.cfm?fa=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=10285

All fine but your chart is showing when WWE was doing 4.3 in the ratings and wCw 2.5.

What I was talking about was when BOTH WWE and wCw were doing in the high 6's.

And you may want to reread my post a couple of time to be sure that you really understand it because I said MANY TIMES that I wasn't blaming Cena solely for the low ratings but it's not better when people try to exclude 100% out of the cause. Cena is the king but another king could do better, that's all I am saying.

Just like when people shut down the person who propose to turn Cena heel from time to time. He is the biggest draw and merch sellers, would be dumb to do. Without realising that the new face who would destroy the new super villain may draw more and sell more as number showed before. Even HHH lately in an interview said that the WWE was okay in the number but not GREAT and that they would like to reach the old numbers one day (not exactly like that, but go read it here on the site).

 

[[cL]]

Fair play to the OP here.
But of course Cena should be getting those reactions. YES, the guy's worked hard, but no one can argue that he hasn't had the perfect pedastal for his act. He has been rammed down our throats since 2006 (whether you're a fan, or not - that's pretty much fact).

Totally Agree.

Is Cena REALLY the be-all-and-end-all? For once, i'm not certain.

See WE don't see him as the be all end all, BUT the problem is because of the lack of Main Event calibur stars, he actually IS that guy. Which sucks to be quite honest.

Have they genuinely experimented in ramming someone down our throats as much as they have done with Cena?

Heres where I may get a little wordy. (bear with me) Due to the fact that this era of wrestling is void of many main event calibur superstars, he is getting rammed down our throats. This could be for 1 of two reasons.
A. He is playing backstage politics, keeping other talent down that could possibly take the reigns. Not putting them over and/or no selling.
B. No one is truly stepping it up.
Like Trips said last night, you gotta go out and get the people behind you. So besides Cena in the past 6-7 years, who, on the active roster right now, has done that? Who has made the people love or hate him so genuinely that they deserve that Cena spot?
As much of a Cena hater I am, I have to lean towards B. The WWE did their best to see what it would be like pushing the younger guys (Ziggler, Swagger, Shaemus) and putting the strap on other fan favorites (Mysterio) but none of these guys have the total package that the LEAST attitude era star had. None of these new guys (or some of the old guys ie; Christian) have enough of what it takes to be the main guy and with that, we are forced to eat the Cena Sandwich, "weak" in and "weak" out. Back in the attitude era days and most will agree ( i hope ) there wasn't just ONE main guy carrying the whole company. You had main event calibur mid card and tag teams back then. There were so many to choose from. The Rock, SCSA, Mick Foley, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker, Big Show, Kurt Angle Kane etc...So there wasn't a real need to ram anything down our throats because we loved EVERYONE...At this time all we got is Cena. Screw what HHH is talking about because its not just the fans but Vince too. Vince has to get behind them just as much as the fans do. Zack Ryder is a perfect example of this. As much as the fans where behind Zack Ryder, bringing Ryder or Riot signs (that were getting confiscated) and the "we want ryder" chants, they weren't getting Ryder. Ryder was busting his butt to get over and the fans wanted him but ultimately without the stamp of approval from Vince, it didn't happen. So yeah, I do believe they've tried to push some new ME talent, but they weren't up to the job. Therefore, we have to deal with Cena getting world title after world title week in and week out.

Sure, why would you risk anything otherwise? But then you have to ask yourself, are you happy with 3.0 ratings? How long can you continue with that? "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" right? But when's "broke"?

The concept of the 'king of the dying kingdom' is very interesting. Sure, things arn't falling apart at the seems, by any means. But a little something called MMA has been breathing heavily down the necks of WWE for some time. Now I know we can go on til we're blue in the face that "MMA and wrestling are two different things", but the bottom line is we must look towards the future generations. WWE cannot rest on their laurels. MMA is cool and appeals to the 'Attitude Era' style of audience we had 10 or so years ago. It was fashionable, and you wern't ashamed to be a fan.

MMA is now a genuine threat (what with going live), and we've seen WWE panic (as much as a multi million dollar company can, anyway) with hotshotting angles and whatnot. They've clearly started taking more creative risks (look at Punk's semi-shoot character, for example).

I 150% believe that MMA is a huge reason why the WWE is losing viewership. It does cater to the attitude era fans and if they did more witht he entrances and did some promo's they would be WWE on steroids...lol

Maybe it's time to start shoving some different guys down our throats for the next few years.

again, unfortunately....I don't think they can...Who could do it? the Miz? no....R Truth? no....Jomo? nope....Randy Orton? as big a star as he is, he'll never be John Cena. His character has changed and he's not the Viper he was initially. He's now this version of the viper, tatted up but a little nicer. So...yeah, no, he couldnt do it either.

Look at Hogan in WCW. The guy was starting to get mixed reactions, so what did they do? Pull the damn trigger and hit the 'refresh' button.

I believe this is hinting at a heel turn for Cena...which they will NEVER do...unfortunately.

I can only hope WWE is warming Punk up to be our next, modern day Cena (without the cheesiness, but I think they're learning that lesson) while using Cena in a different way - as the biggest heel in wrestling today.

...however if they ever did use Cena as a heel, it would totally and completely invigorate his career. It would be like a breath of fresh air. again, however, don't think its gonna happen.

In closing, the unfortunate truth is, though his character is stale and boring and desperately needs an overhaul, there is no one on the roster who can pick up the ball and run with it. Punk is doing a great job right now and we are loving the direction he is going in. However, like someone else said, he is the "flavour of the month". He's doing good right NOW. He needs to show consistency and growth in his character in order for him to be seen as the next face of the company if he is even being considered. As it stands, as much as we may hate it......Cena is the guy.

***kicks up dust and walks away.

 

[Dynamitekid2012]

I can get what you're getting at but I think you're a little wrong, let me explain.

I absolutely agree that John Cena isn't to blame. I have said it before and I'll say it again... In today's market its the entire product thats a draw much more so than an individual guy. Its not that these draws don't exist, but their importance on the overall product is vastly overrated. When Cena was injured and off tv for a few months awhile back, ratings stayed the same. To me, this suggests that Cena is not as big of a draw as we think, and its the overall wwe product thats the draw instead.


Now with that said, within the product itself, John Cena is the biggest star in the WWE and thats where I disagree with you. He does sell the most merchandise, and theres a reason he's on top. I get sick of him just like anyone else, but that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to be there or that it doesn't make sense business wise to have him there. Overall I think we shouldn't give him props for carrying the company, nor should we blame him when the company isn't doing well. The overall product is the draw. Cena is the star of that company but without Cena there, I believe the WWE machine moves along just fine.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I'm not a particularly big fan of John Cena. I haven't been all that wild about him over the past few weeks because the aspects that make me dislike his character have been front and center. To suggest that Cena isn't a superstar, however, is utter nonsense.

Sure Raw's ratings aren't that great right now. So? That's how it goes with just about any television show. There are going to be peaks and valleys at any given time when it comes to television viewership. Can't blame that on Cena because, quite frankly, Cena hasn't really been the center of attention on Raw for the past few months. That's been mostly CM Punk. It hasn't clicked with a lot of casual viewers but it seems to be doing alright with the hardcore Raw audience.

John Cena is someone who has consistently delivered for WWE for close to 7 years now. Sometimes his merch sales are stronger than others just like there are times in which Raw's ratings are higher than others. But Cena has consistently delivered and that's a huge reason of why he's constantly in the spotlight on Raw. Cena does make WWE money as much as it might absolutely piss some people off to acknowledge that.

Also, it's really time to get some new material for these anti-Cena thread rants because they continue to be discredited time and time again. We've heard all about the 5 Moves of Doom and it no longer flies because, time and time again, it's been pointed out that every wrestler uses a handful of signature moves & offense almost everytime they're out there. Another thing that's been debunked are that only the 5, 6, & 7 year olds like Cena. You'll see grown men and women each time you watch Raw wearing Cena gear or cheering the guy. Contrary to what some might want to believe, you don't have to be the ultra edgy, profanity spewing wrestling character for adults to like you.

If someone isn't a fan of Cena, great. That's how it is with any wrestler because they're not going to appeal to anyone. However, don't take your own dislike of a wrestler and try to use it as a measuring stick to say that he's not a legit superstar in spite of all the long term evidence that's right in front of you. You're just going to look foolish.

 

[multiverseman.com]

Your post is full of errors, but this is the one I really feel must be addressed, because it is flat out wrong. Ratings did not kill WCW. WCW was still a profitable company pulling in ratings that by cable standards are quite good. What killed WCW was AOL merging with Warner and not wanting anything to do with wrestling. Period. The company could have continued as a viable, money making outfit for a long time to come if the corporate think didn't decide wrestling = bad.

We all know the story of WCW's downfall. Ratings alone didn't kill them....but they helped. Do you really think that if Nitro was drawing 7's like they were at one point, the exacs would've pulled the plug when they did? Don't be naive.

How big an idiot are you? Cena is WWE's most valuable superstar. He is the one who brings the majority of the money that they get in. Even the most pure hater of John Cena cannot deny this.

I don't dispute any of that. I'm saying that it doesn't say a whole hell of alot. Especially not these days. He's the most valuable because he's had the most invested in him. He brings in a big percentage of the shrinking dollars they're getting. He's the king, no doubt, but of what?

If you put your entire machine behind Cody Rhodes, push him to the moon, make him invincible, have him win the title all the time and put him on shirts and magazines, he'll be responsible for drawing the majority of money in the company. All 12 dollars of it.

WWE is not a dying kingdom, yes it is far from its peak, but in case you weren't aware, wrestling's mainstream appeal is cyclical. Sometimes it's very hot, sometimes it's very not. WWE ratings may be a far cry below their height, but they are still high enough to make their networks very happy, and WWE is still bringing in the bank. And whether you, or I, or anyone else likes it, a significant portion of that money is because of John Cena.

They're not dying but compared to their heyday, they're very sick. They have interests in games, TV, DVD's and tons of other revenue so they'll be good for a long time. Don't pretend that they're not doing as well as they could be.

He is clearly this generation's people's choice. While I will not put him in the same category of The Rock, Steve Austin or Hulk Hogan the guy still offers something to the fans whether I like it or not.

He is clearly this generation's corporate choice. He's hardworking, safe, loyal and a team player so they get behind him. Thus more people are programmed to be behind him. However, it's not working the way it should. He's been getting booed for years now. If you wanna talk about the people, half of them are speaking pretty loudly too.

CM Punk sure is striking gold isn't he? Ratings haven't drastically increased since Punk started talking about stuff 90% of the crowd have no clue about.

I love this type of logic when comparing the two. CM Punk is supposed to be creating a ratings goldmine by being top tier, but Cena isn't supposed to take any of the flack for the ratings dropping consistently over his last few years on the absolute top. The answer is = neither of them are solely to blame. However, Punk isn't immune to critique and neither is Cena.

Side Note: I'm tired of the label "Cena hater" for bringing up what a TON of us are talking about. Yeah I'm into it. Yeah I care. I wanted the man to turn heel at least a year ago because I think it's best for the company and for him. Because I like the guy.

There's a reason this subject keeps arising.