John Cena Made Dolph Ziggler Look Like Gold - GOLD, I Say!

[Uncle Sam]

Ziggler's had a fantastic year. Being given Vickie Guerrero - the human heat machine - as a manager, being given the Intercontinental Championship, being given fantastic matches by Kofi Kingston and, to a greater extent, DBD. Now he's been given the greatest Christmas gift of them all; a rub by John Cena. He can add his name to a list that includes such names as Jack Swagger and, dare I say it, Darren Young.

Ziggler never looked anything less than Cena's equal in that match. I mean, I suppose that puts him on a higher tier than Wade Barrett if the mutterings I hear about TLC are true.

The shadowy corners of the internet are, typically, whining about Cena not selling like death every time Ziggler so much as touched him or daring not to job to him. But, you know, they're ******ed.

Maybe they won't need my "Adolph Ziggler" idea after all...

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I agree. I can't tell you how relieved I was when I saw that the WWE was actually going to make a competitive match between these two. I honestly thought that Ziggler was about to be offered up to Cena as some sacrifice in a 90 second squash match that would make Ziggler's entire year seem worthless.

Dolph Ziggler has come a long way over the course of this year, particularly since winning the IC title. He looked like a star against John Cena last night and he's just really stepped up since becoming champ. I thought the WWE did a great job last night in actually giving me a little hope that Ziggler would win the match. I knew deep down that he didn't, but it was a good teaser and Ziggler looked like a contender when it was all said and done.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

I haven't seen it. Watch Raw you say! Bitch, you crazy. I'll hunt this one match out on your recommendation though.

Surprising to see Ziggler portrayed as Cena's equal. When was the last time that happened? A Swagger match over a year ago I believe. Cena usually makes younger, less established wrestlers look like shit. Wade Barrett? Blah, its Barrett & Nexus vs. Cena and Cena still always gets the upper hand.

How has Ziggler had a good year? The Bryan matches were good, but I can't remember anything else he's done. He's been exposed as a fairly boring wrestler and Vicki Guerrero gets his heat for him.

 

[Tired0FthePeople]

It goes to show you how WWE has conditioned us with Cena matches. When a guy as good in the ring as Ziggler actually has a good match with a Cena, it shocks us...makes us think Cena 'made' the other guy look like Gold or vice versa.

Cena matches on TV are usually booked the same couple of ways. The heel beats him down for 90% of the match, Cena does his 5 moves and gets the win. Then you have the squash match where Cena beats the heal down and picks up the win in 3 minutes. At PPV's or with bigger stars, Cena matches are more back and forth and are generally much better matches. But the E booked this match to be competative....to go back and forth. Ziggler had matches where he has looked this good before, but he's Dolph Ziggler so you're not going to remember all of his matches.

Someone said elsewhere that Cena has had many great matches. TLC was the first PPV Ive bought in over 10 years so I dont see his PPV matches but I cant personally remember seeing a match on TV involving Cena that I thought was great. But I recognize that he's good enough to put on a great match with Dolph Ziggler if the booking team wants him to.

 

[Twiztid Rodimus]

I think that the match itself was great, and Ziggler did look great against Cena.

Dolph has put on MANY good matches over this year, against Danielson,Morrison, Kofi etc. He tried for a while to get the IC title from Morrison and we've seen his rise to becoming what he is now.

In regards to outside the ring, you can give the nod to the addition of Vickie as gaining him heat, but so what, Thats what managers do.

His matches are ones that I look forward to no matter the show he's on, since Raw seems to be willing him over to their show. Since he/vickie get such livid responses, they need some of that on live raw television.

Did Cena make him look like gold, I gotta say yeah. Since Raw has added more lenghty matches to their show, the show has been better, and Cena did give the rub to Dolph as you said. Is this going to spur a heavyweight title run to Dolph? Of course not...not now..but in time..possibly.

Wwe seems to be focusing so much on the young talent and Dolph is young and talented, I hope that Wwe keeps their eyes on him.

 

[NWannabe]

Dolph wouldn't let Cena NOT make him look like gold. He controlled that match until the end.

 

[JGlass]

Dolph Ziggler is definitely very talented, and putting him in the ring with John Cena could have gone one of two ways; either John was going to bury him, or John was going to make him look like a future number one contender, there would be no middle ground.

It should come as a surprise to nobody that John Cena made Dolph Ziggler look like an experienced vet last night, even allowing Dolph to hit his Fame Asser finisher that Michael Cole calls the Zig-Zag, even though that is also the name of his Reverse Bulldog.

His stuff with both Daniel Bryan and Kofi Kingston has been quite good, and Dolph is among my favorite Smackdown superstars to watch in the ring. Props to John Cena and the WWE for helping this guy look good, and I look forward to seeing him develop into a possible world champion in the next few years.

 

[Tired0FthePeople]

I think that the match itself was great, and Ziggler did look great against Cena.

Did Cena make him look like gold, I gotta say yeah. Since Raw has added more lenghty matches to their show, the show has been better, and Cena did give the rub to Dolph as you said. Is this going to spur a heavyweight title run to Dolph? Of course not...not now..but in time..possibly.

Wwe seems to be focusing so much on the young talent and Dolph is young and talented, I hope that Wwe keeps their eyes on him.

I have a question for you and Jglass14. How does it work? How does Cena make Ziggler look good in this match? In the Ziggler/Bryan matches...did Bryan make Ziggler look good? In the incredible Shaemus/Morris matches...which one made the other look good? In the Swagger/Kingston matches...same question. Did Taker make HBK look good the last two Manias or was it the other way around?

Im not trying to be a smart ass...I really want to know how to quantify who made who look good when I see a great match.

 

[Mekanik Kommandoh]

Cena made Ziggler look like gold because Ziggler looked competitive in the match and it was probably the most heat the young IC champ has ever had. The crowd was going absolutely insane during their entire stand off and Cena deserves most of the credit. Ziggler has had good matches in the past, but he's never been in an environment like that. Even if you don't like Cena, you cannot deny that getting a rub from him is incredibly beneficial. He's the top wrestler in WWE and if he makes you look good in a match, you're going to look like gold, as Uncle Sam stated in the original thread.

And Cena usually has great matches. It's a shame you've missed them.

 

[Tired0FthePeople]

You're probably going to think Im being an asshole but im not. You tried to explain to me how Cena made Ziggler look like gold but you said Cena did so because Ziggler looked competative. I dont see how thats to do with Cena. Thats to do with the booking. It could have been booked to be a squash. Then you say Zigger had heat and gave Cena credit for that. But Vicky is just as responsible. If Ziggler's manager was a heel Kelly Kelly the match would not have had that vibe, Cena or no Cena. So at the most, Cena was HALF responsible for the matches' aura. Then you went on to say that if Cena makes you look good in a match you'll look like gold. But you didnt explain anything you just repeated words already spoken.

Im not ignorant person and understand things quite well when explained to me but I still dont understand your reasoning behind the point that Cena make Ziggler look like gold. So will I try to explain what I think you guys mean and tell me if I have it right.

The WWE bookers booked a match between Ziggler and Cena. The spots in the match are pre-determined. Ziggler was booked to slip out of the AA and lock on the sleeper. He was also booked to land the FameAsser and Cena was scripted to kick out. Basically, Vince scripted the main spots in the match and shocked us all by scripting the match to go back and forth like your typical Swagger/Kingston or Shaemus/Morrison match...and because of that scripting and the skill set these two have...the match came out phenominal. Is that how Cena made Dolph look like gold?

 

[The People's Peep]

I completely agree.

It all started with the promo. Cena got the crowd going from the start. That excitement carried over to the match and the fans were into the match. In the ring, they worked very well together and when you add that with the crowd, it made for a very good match. It helped get Ziggler over to the crowd and of course, the match made Ziggler look like a more than credible opponent.

And guess what, the rub gets to continue as we get to see it again on Smackdown. I would expect another very good match between the two, with Ziggler looking very good. Ziggler is very underrated, has tons of momentum, and deserves a good rub like this.

 

[Mekanik Kommandoh]

The WWE bookers booked a match between Ziggler and Cena. The spots in the match are pre-determined. Ziggler was booked to slip out of the AA and lock on the sleeper. He was also booked to land the FameAsser and Cena was scripted to kick out. Basically, Vince scripted the main spots in the match and shocked us all by scripting the match to go back and forth like your typical Swagger/Kingston or Shaemus/Morrison match...and because of that scripting and the skill set these two have...the match came out phenominal. Is that how Cena made Dolph look like gold?

Sure, you could explain it like that. The main difference between that match and the Swagger/Kingston, Sheamus/Morrison, or even the Dolph/Danielson matches is that Cena is a much, much bigger star than Dolph (or Sheamus, Morrison, Swagger, Danielson, and Kingston) and, in kayfabe, is most likely to dominate him. The match was probably booked to make Dolph look legit and, in effect, it was the first time he really looked like a potential star on a big stage. Now, will WWE squander that heat tonight when these two face off again? That remains to be seen.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

I've always been fairly fond of Ziggler since he debuted under his current name. I thought he had the look and his in-ring skills were pretty solid. Over the course of the last 18 months though, Ziggler has slowly gotten better and better and I think it's a remarkable achievement for him to have gone from being in the Spirit Squad to have MOTY candidates with Daniel Bryan. I think last night was Ziggler's crowning moment though.

The match wasn't his best, but he showed to everyone that he can go toe-to-toe with the best in the company. It's become apparent that Ziggler has almost everything and I don't think it would be too much of stretch to claim that Ziggler could wind up in the World Title hunt at some point in the next 18 months or so.

 

[Tired0FthePeople]

Thanks for taking the time to work with me until I understood that! Sometimes people here resort to insults after a few traded posts and I was afraid that was coming, if not from you then from someone else. I understand now. Its not that Cena himself did anything in particular to make Dolph look like gold, it was just Cena being who he is, which is the top face (top guy period) in the company. And you are right, after seeing that match, Dolph looks like a guy who could compete for the world titles and that was the first time Ive felt that way about him.
The E didnt book Dolph to go over DB, not even by cheating so of course he wont win the match on SD but its nice to see Dolph not getting squashed by Cena.
Hey tell me something...name a great match you've seen Cena have recently on TV because Im going to youtube it and check it out. Thanks!

 

[LSN80]

You're probably going to think Im being an asshole but im not. You tried to explain to me how Cena made Ziggler look like gold but you said Cena did so because Ziggler looked competative. I dont see how thats to do with Cena. Thats to do with the booking. It could have been booked to be a squash. Then you say Zigger had heat and gave Cena credit for that. But Vicky is just as responsible. If Ziggler's manager was a heel Kelly Kelly the match would not have had that vibe, Cena or no Cena. So at the most, Cena was HALF responsible for the matches' aura. Then you went on to say that if Cena makes you look good in a match you'll look like gold. But you didnt explain anything you just repeated words already spoken. ?


Im not ignorant person and understand things quite well when explained to me but I still dont understand your reasoning behind the point that Cena make Ziggler look like gold. So will I try to explain what I think you guys mean and tell me if I have it right.

The WWE bookers booked a match between Ziggler and Cena. The spots in the match are pre-determined. Ziggler was booked to slip out of the AA and lock on the sleeper. He was also booked to land the FameAsser and Cena was scripted to kick out. Basically, Vince scripted the main spots in the match and shocked us all by scripting the match to go back and forth like your typical Swagger/Kingston or Shaemus/Morrison match...and because of that scripting and the skill set these two have...the match came out phenominal. Is that how Cena made Dolph look like gold?

Because of the way that Cena bumped and sold Ziggler's offense. He made it look believable, and like his offense was a real threat to defeat a 9 time champion. Cena could have steamrolled through Ziggler like he has bigger stars in the past but the match was competitive and back and forth. HE even hit one of his signature moves in the fameasser on Cena, and Cena sold that he was going to lose the match until the last second when he rolled the shoulder up. He also locked the sleeper in on Cena, and slipped out of the FU, which many opponents have never done.

A match can be booked evenly between two people, and the execution be bad, and its a poor match, regardless of how its booked. Its the two wrestlers in the ring that make the match what it is, not vice versa. Cena as the better and more credible wrestler, made Dolph look like gold because he made it seem like Dolph had a chance to beat him in the match. Cena's aggressive, but he allowed himself to succumb at times to Dolph's aggressiveness as well. He chain and mat wrestled with Ziggler as well, which is one of Ziggler's strengths. So when you play to your lesser opponents strengths, you make them look good.

As for the heat that was generated, you can attribute much of that to Vickie, but the level at which the heat was received was beyond anything ever drawn for either Dolph or VIckie. Why? Because it was during a John Cena promo, the top babyface in the company. When you look to draw heat for someone, an easy way to do it is against a hot crowd who adores said babyface. The crowd was extremely pro-Cena last night, so much of the heat, whether started by Vickie or not, transferred to Ziggler. Its really that simple.

As for Ziggler, he's had a phenomenal year. He took the IC title off of Kofi Kingston and had a fantastic set of matches with Kofi on Smackdown leading up to and on the Hell In A cell PPV. He followed that up with a great series of matches with Daniel Bryan as well. Even before he had won the IC Title, he was involved in a mini-feud weith Christian, in which he even defeated Christian once. Before that, he had a series of good matches with Rey Mysterio, and also with John Morrison. Dolph's been a great champion with an IC Title reign thats lasted almost 5 months. He's turned back Kofi, Kaval, and Swagger amongst others as contenders for the title. He's developed into a talented performer whose work in both tag and singles matches have often been the Match Of The Night on Smackdown consistently. It shows the faith they have in him that he hung for Cena for 13 minutes and pushed him to the limit. Even in a loss, Ziggler came out looking better for it.

 

[The Viper Orton]

It goes to show you how WWE has conditioned us with Cena matches. When a guy as good in the ring as Ziggler actually has a good match with a Cena, it shocks us...makes us think Cena 'made' the other guy look like Gold or vice versa.

Cena matches on TV are usually booked the same couple of ways. The heel beats him down for 90% of the match, Cena does his 5 moves and gets the win. Then you have the squash match where Cena beats the heal down and picks up the win in 3 minutes. At PPV's or with bigger stars, Cena matches are more back and forth and are generally much better matches. But the E booked this match to be competative....to go back and forth. Ziggler had matches where he has looked this good before, but he's Dolph Ziggler so you're not going to remember all of his matches.

I agree. Dolph Zigger had alot of good and competetive matches but people don't remember or just don't care.

His match against bryan, Mysterio (before getting his IC title), vs Kofi the first time, and vs Jomo (when Jomo had the title).

The funny part is that he only won one of these matches. He puts on great matches whenever he seems to loose to a bigger superstar, and that shows he's Gold in his wrestling skills.

 

[merce07]

I agree. Any time you have a mid card guy like Ziggler go toe to toe with the number 1 guy its a good thing. It looks like WWE cares about future stars after all.

 

[WWEIsLife2]

I agree,John Cena put Dolph Ziggler over big time on RAW last night. Cena can have Great Matches but some of the IWC and the Haters can't get past their dislike of the man.

Ziggler has had a Great Year on Smackdown with winning the IC Title and having Great Matches with Kofi Kingston and other guys. WWE does care about pushing the Younger guys and for the ones who will be here in the next 10 years.

 

[Tired0FthePeople]

Because of the way that Cena bumped and sold Ziggler's offense. He made it look believable, and like his offense was a real threat to defeat a 9 time champion. Cena could have steamrolled through Ziggler like he has bigger stars in the past but the match was competitive and back and forth. HE even hit one of his signature moves in the fameasser on Cena, and Cena sold that he was going to lose the match until the last second when he rolled the shoulder up. He also locked the sleeper in on Cena, and slipped out of the FU, which many opponents have never done.

A match can be booked evenly between two people, and the execution be bad, and its a poor match, regardless of how its booked. Its the two wrestlers in the ring that make the match what it is, not vice versa. Cena as the better and more credible wrestler, made Dolph look like gold because he made it seem like Dolph had a chance to beat him in the match. Cena's aggressive, but he allowed himself to succumb at times to Dolph's aggressiveness as well. He chain and mat wrestled with Ziggler as well, which is one of Ziggler's strengths. So when you play to your lesser opponents strengths, you make them look good.

As for the heat that was generated, you can attribute much of that to Vickie, but the level at which the heat was received was beyond anything ever drawn for either Dolph or VIckie. Why? Because it was during a John Cena promo, the top babyface in the company. When you look to draw heat for someone, an easy way to do it is against a hot crowd who adores said babyface. The crowd was extremely pro-Cena last night, so much of the heat, whether started by Vickie or not, transferred to Ziggler. Its really that simple.

As for Ziggler, he's had a phenomenal year. He took the IC title off of Kofi Kingston and had a fantastic set of matches with Kofi on Smackdown leading up to and on the Hell In A cell PPV. He followed that up with a great series of matches with Daniel Bryan as well. Even before he had won the IC Title, he was involved in a mini-feud weith Christian, in which he even defeated Christian once. Before that, he had a series of good matches with Rey Mysterio, and also with John Morrison. Dolph's been a great champion with an IC Title reign thats lasted almost 5 months. He's turned back Kofi, Kaval, and Swagger amongst others as contenders for the title. He's developed into a talented performer whose work in both tag and singles matches have often been the Match Of The Night on Smackdown consistently. It shows the faith they have in him that he hung for Cena for 13 minutes and pushed him to the limit. Even in a loss, Ziggler came out looking better for it.

LSN,
I always appreciate your input. But I think Ive come to understand what is meant when Mekanik explained it to me. I think the bottom line here is that Cena is the top man in wrestling right now so Dolph will 'look like gold' just for having a back and forth match with him. You said Cena could have steamrolled through Ziggler. You're right...the E could have booked the match to give Ziggler very little offense. You and I both seem to agree that the two wrestlers in that ring is what made the match what is was. (in terms of the actual wrestling) and the top heel and top face in the company having a promo against one another is what caused the intense 'feel.' The E booked it to go even and Dolph and Cena executed it brilliantly. That is the point I was trying to get at...and it seems you agree. Cena allowed himself to succumb to Dolph's offense at times because thats what the script called for...along with taking the sleeper and the Famesser and kicking out at 2 and a half. I see what you're saying though; if Cena no-sold the offense that he was scripted to take from Dolph the match would not have been as good.

 

[NWannabe]

LSN; You are basically saying we should be amazed that John Cena did his job? GIven the character of JC as a person, why WOULDN'T he do that? Ok, I will agree..he's no HBK or HHH who seemed to almost get off on squashing up and comers, but we are too laud him for putting over young talent?

Cena is KNOWN for putting guys away. Just look at Nexus.
TotP; You mean like Cena no sold punk's chairshot?

 

[LSN80]

LSN; You are basically saying we should be amazed that John Cena did his job? GIven the character of JC as a person, why WOULDN'T he do that? Ok, I will agree..he's no HBK or HHH who seemed to almost get off on squashing up and comers, but we are too laud him for putting over young talent?

Cena is KNOWN for putting guys away. Just look at Nexus.
TotP; You mean like Cena no sold punk's chairshot?

Since you failed to quote my post, Id like to know where you got the impression that I was "amazed" and genuflected at the notion that John Cena did his job. All I was simply saying was that he made someone whose clearly beneath him on the card look like he belonged in the ring with Cena, and could have won this match. I was commenting on the thread, and agreeing with the idea that Cena made Ziggler look very good.

And yes, you generally do give credit to stars for putting over young talent. In a business of inflated egos and superstars who refuse to do jobs, Cena has put over young talent like few others. And yes, he put Nexus away. After 6 months of which it only cost him his WWE Championship, forced him to join Nexus, and briefly cost him his job. Along with Barrett, he got over the biggest faction and storyline of the year. Of course he deserves credit for that. You would suggest otherwise?

 

[Arkham Noir]

Maybe they won't need my "Adolph Ziggler" idea after all...

I laughed hard at that one.

Ziggler is doing the perfect ascension right now. Holding the mid-card title, putting on solid matches everytime he steps in the ring, slowly bulding credibilty, and he has a great manager with him. This guy has everything going for him right now.

Contrary to popular belief, Cena is very good at making guys look good. He always puts on a good match and has proven he can make chicken salad out of chicken shit. Obviously he isn't going to put over everyone he steps in the ring with. He is WWE's top draw, he isn't jobbing to anyone.

I'm excited about Ziggler's futur right now.

 

[THEMIZISTRULYAWESOME22]

I agree. I can't tell you how relieved I was when I saw that the WWE was actually going to make a competitive match between these two. I honestly thought that Ziggler was about to be offered up to Cena as some sacrifice in a 90 second squash match that would make Ziggler's entire year seem worthless.

Dolph Ziggler has come a long way over the course of this year, particularly since winning the IC title. He looked like a star against John Cena last night and he's just really stepped up since becoming champ. I thought the WWE did a great job last night in actually giving me a little hope that Ziggler would win the match. I knew deep down that he didn't, but it was a good teaser and Ziggler looked like a contender when it was all said and done.

firstly, im not a cena hater, i realise if he was heel he wouldn't get half the abuse he gets now.. anyway, i agree what better way to put over a great talent than have him wrestle the " immortal " john cena, i would however say that the endings to the matches were very badly written, i can excuse the raw one as thats johns show and it was his 1st raw back, but with the CM Punk angle developing they could have easily had Punk cost Cena 1 if not both those matches... makes dolph look good and doesnt affect cena.... but they decide to make Cena 2-0 winner, when next ppv these to go ahead the promo of punk fcuking up cenas return is better than punk attacking him,surely the wwe universe's no1 fan would be devastated at losing matches. i think that would be better,

 

[Cats Pajamas]

Both of these guys deserve some praise. Cena may get hated because Hogan ruined it for the "superface" class, but he's really not that bad. He doesn't botch his moves. He mixes it up a little more than people think, though he does usually hit his signature moves. And Ziggler is great, always has been! He makes me think of Curt Hennig. He should get some solid feuds going though. Especially with Vicki who gets more heat than any manager should be able to. Definitely a great set of matches.

 

[Gordon Hickenbottom]

Due to a rather busy few weeks I did not get the chance to view this weeks Raw, it was only after the recomendation in this thread about the match that swayed me. This is not some tacky cheesy chrissmasy pun, but I belive a star was born. Two years ago I belive it was when Cena did a very similar thing with Jack Swagger, and now look. A former(althroguh floped) world champion and money in the bank winner.

However, I do not belive Ziggler's sucess will come soley from this one performance, over the past few months Dolph has relay begun to show us that he can go very well in the ring, this has shown in matches against Kofi, Bryan, Cena, and hell even MVP to an extent. What went down on Monday was a risk, as it could have buried the dude's chances completley, but it didn't, and now we have a chance of a star on our hands.

Well done WWE, John Cena, but most of all, Dolph Ziggler.