Jericho VS Triple H - Who's the better all round Wrestler?

[Vance Ryan]

Read through all posts before you make your own post...I already explained what my point was.

1. HHH main evented more ppv's than any other wrestler during this time period. He main evented 21 ppv's, Taker and Lesnar COMBINED only main evented 19 ppv's.

2 HHH won the 2002 royal rumble and main evented WM18, WM20, and WM21.

3. Smackdown was the main show for 1 of those years and thats 2003. If smackdown was the bigger show how do you explain this... Raw superstars main evented WM 3 out of the 4 years, and Raw superstars main evented Summerslam 3 out of the 4 years. If smackdown was the bigger brand, why was Raw always closing the two biggest shows of the year? Raw was clearly the dominate brand during this time. I dont understand how you guys are even trying to debate this. Everything I said is a FACT.

Let me take a crack at this....

First of all like quoted mr.cornette earlier "HHH is the guy who works with the guy who makes the money" HHH my friend was never the guy.

Now HHH did not main event wm18 Rock and Hogan did. that was your first mistake.
second Mr.benoit had an amazing 2003 and won the rumble in 2004 and everyone knows the royal rumble winner main events WM. HHH was the only credible Heel in that on that brand era to do that.
Same in 2005 Batista won the rumble.
the draws to wrestlemania were benoit and batista not HHH.
in fact lets take a look at HHH`s oponents as oppesed to HHH himself in the main events because joint ppv`s unlss the rumble winner or a mega draw he never main evented.

Survivor series 2002
Shawn Michaels defeated Triple H (c) (with Ric Flair), Rob Van Dam, Booker T, Kane, and Chris Jericho
who`s the draw Shawn micheals and really the fact of the matter that the elimination chamber was first being introduced.

Armageddon (2002)
Triple H defeated Shawn Michaels (c) 2 falls to 1
again shawn is the draw and the fact its his first title reign defence on ppv in years.

Bad Blood 2003
Triple H (c) defeated Kevin Nash Hell in a Cell match for the World Heavyweight Championship with Mick Foley as the special guest referee
Kevin nash Returns to ppv after tearing his quad . like nash or not he was the center piece of wcw and a proven draw. Wolfpack 4 Life baby.

SummerSlam 2003
Triple H (c) (with Ric Flair) defeated Goldberg, Chris Jericho, Randy Orton, Kevin Nash and Shawn Michaels Elimination Chamber match for the World Heavyweight Championship.
Once again who are your draws Goldberg, Micheals and nash

Unforgiven (2003)
Goldberg defeated Triple H (c)Singles match for the World Heavyweight Championship
Again who is your draw Goldberg

Survivor Series (2003)
Goldberg (c) defeated Triple H (with Ric Flair)
This is starting to get redundant

Armageddon (2003)
Triple H defeated Goldberg (c) and Kane Triple Threat match for the World Heavyweight Championship
im not going to even answer who is putting the asses in the seat on this one

WrestleMania XX
Chris Benoit defeated Triple H (c) and Shawn Michaels
They threw michels in there twice because HHH vs Beniot wouldve been a good match but a sell out doubt it.(sorry beniot may you rest in piece)

Backlash 2004
Chris Benoit (c) defeated Shawn Michaels and Triple H[4]
Rematch from mania

Bad Blood (2004)
Triple H defeated Shawn Michaels Hell in a Cell match
A match in which shawn micheals was the first in might i add a very well booked rivalry comes to an end but again micheals is your draw.

Vengeance 2004
Chris Benoit (c) defeated Triple H Singles match for the World Heavyweight Championship
By this point beniot has been champ for awhile and is finally over with the fans,. but wait.......... this ppv had the lowest rated raw ppv buys of the year and who takes the blame Beniot which is why he lost the title the next ppv Summerslam to orton.

Unforgiven(2004)
Triple H defeated Randy Orton (c)Singles match for the World Heavyweight Championship
Obviously withthe crappy buyrate from vengeance wwe decides to go back to to HHH and blame beniot. Orton was a transitional champion Sorry orton.

Survivor series 2004Team Orton (Randy Orton, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, and Maven) defeated Team Triple H (Triple H, Edge, Batista, and Snitsky) (with Ric Flair)

New Year's Revolution (2005)
Triple H (with Ric Flair) defeated Edge, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Batista and Randy OrtonElimination Chamber match for the vacant World Heavyweight Championship with Shawn Michaels as the special guest referee
Great way to start Batista push he elimnated everyone but HHH and Edge.
WrestleMania 21
Batista defeated Triple H (c) (with Ric Flair)Singles match for the World Heavyweight Championship
Now Batista is face of the company


So what does the 2002-2004 taught us....... thats right it wasnt HHH THe draw his opponents were in the main events. lets say for example it was rvd in his spot would there have been a difference. lemme me think no HHH in his main event bouts it was his opponents majority of the time not him putting those asses in the seat.

 

[yourdamnluck]

trips didnt make it in wcw coz he wasnt married to the chairman's daughter...
became a star in wwe because he learned from past mistakes...
he was a bigger star than jerico.....placed higher on the card for the better part of his career...despite being an average guy..his heel whc run was great though and had the physique for it.....
jerico despite being much better on mike as well as in ring was less ambitious....
started to put everyone over hell he even put christain over....
also he peaked early and during his peak there were just better options
Y2J had few big moments beating both rock and austin for the undisputed title then his fued with shawn his heavyweight title run........
AND THAT BEING SAID Y2J IS BIGGER NOW THAN HHH EVER WAS MORE OVER THAN HIM AND I WONT MIND SEEING HIM WIN THE RUMBLE AND THEN THE BELT AT MANIA(TO DROP IT TO DB OF COURSE)..........
HE SHOULD BE GIVEN HIS MANIA MOMENT AND DESERVES IT...........

 

[Kidpolean]

Let me take a crack at this....

First of all like quoted mr.cornette earlier "HHH is the guy who works with the guy who makes the money" HHH my friend was never the guy.

Now HHH did not main event wm18 Rock and Hogan did. that was your first mistake.
second Mr.benoit had an amazing 2003 and won the rumble in 2004 and everyone knows the royal rumble winner main events WM. HHH was the only credible Heel in that on that brand era to do that.
Same in 2005 Batista won the rumble.
the draws to wrestlemania were benoit and batista not HHH.
in fact lets take a look at HHH`s oponents as oppesed to HHH himself in the main events because joint ppv`s unlss the rumble winner or a mega draw he never main evented.

Survivor series 2002
Shawn Michaels defeated Triple H (c) (with Ric Flair), Rob Van Dam, Booker T, Kane, and Chris Jericho
who`s the draw Shawn micheals and really the fact of the matter that the elimination chamber was first being introduced.

Armageddon (2002)
Triple H defeated Shawn Michaels (c) 2 falls to 1
again shawn is the draw and the fact its his first title reign defence on ppv in years.

Bad Blood 2003
Triple H (c) defeated Kevin Nash Hell in a Cell match for the World Heavyweight Championship with Mick Foley as the special guest referee
Kevin nash Returns to ppv after tearing his quad . like nash or not he was the center piece of wcw and a proven draw. Wolfpack 4 Life baby.

SummerSlam 2003
Triple H (c) (with Ric Flair) defeated Goldberg, Chris Jericho, Randy Orton, Kevin Nash and Shawn Michaels Elimination Chamber match for the World Heavyweight Championship.
Once again who are your draws Goldberg, Micheals and nash

Unforgiven (2003)
Goldberg defeated Triple H (c)Singles match for the World Heavyweight Championship
Again who is your draw Goldberg

Survivor Series (2003)
Goldberg (c) defeated Triple H (with Ric Flair)
This is starting to get redundant

Armageddon (2003)
Triple H defeated Goldberg (c) and Kane Triple Threat match for the World Heavyweight Championship
im not going to even answer who is putting the asses in the seat on this one

WrestleMania XX
Chris Benoit defeated Triple H (c) and Shawn Michaels
They threw michels in there twice because HHH vs Beniot wouldve been a good match but a sell out doubt it.(sorry beniot may you rest in piece)

Backlash 2004
Chris Benoit (c) defeated Shawn Michaels and Triple H[4]
Rematch from mania

Bad Blood (2004)
Triple H defeated Shawn Michaels Hell in a Cell match
A match in which shawn micheals was the first in might i add a very well booked rivalry comes to an end but again micheals is your draw.

Vengeance 2004
Chris Benoit (c) defeated Triple H Singles match for the World Heavyweight Championship
By this point beniot has been champ for awhile and is finally over with the fans,. but wait.......... this ppv had the lowest rated raw ppv buys of the year and who takes the blame Beniot which is why he lost the title the next ppv Summerslam to orton.

Unforgiven(2004)
Triple H defeated Randy Orton (c)Singles match for the World Heavyweight Championship
Obviously withthe crappy buyrate from vengeance wwe decides to go back to to HHH and blame beniot. Orton was a transitional champion Sorry orton.

Survivor series 2004Team Orton (Randy Orton, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, and Maven) defeated Team Triple H (Triple H, Edge, Batista, and Snitsky) (with Ric Flair)

New Year's Revolution (2005)
Triple H (with Ric Flair) defeated Edge, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Batista and Randy OrtonElimination Chamber match for the vacant World Heavyweight Championship with Shawn Michaels as the special guest referee
Great way to start Batista push he elimnated everyone but HHH and Edge.
WrestleMania 21
Batista defeated Triple H (c) (with Ric Flair)Singles match for the World Heavyweight Championship
Now Batista is face of the company


So what does the 2002-2004 taught us....... thats right it wasnt HHH THe draw his opponents were in the main events. lets say for example it was rvd in his spot would there have been a difference. lemme me think no HHH in his main event bouts it was his opponents majority of the time not him putting those asses in the seat.

This is one of the most ignorant post I have ever read. You are the perfect example of the type of person that gives the IWC a bad reputation. All you did was give biased OPINIONS and claimed that they somehow overtake the facts that I provided.

First off...The main event is ALWAYS the last match. Since day 1, since wrestling was first created, in every sport whether it be UFC or Boxing, the main event went on last. Now I agree that Rock-Hogan should have main evented but the fact is THAT IT DID NOT MAIN EVENT. HHH/Jericho went on last and closed the show. If you want to have a valid argument than state FACTS and not your opinions.

Secondly...A main event is always between two top guys. Since when did the person drawing the viewers mean that they are the top guy. Cena-Punk at MITB was centered around Punk and he was the one that was the draw, but he was NEVER the top guy. Same thing with Daniel Bryan-Cena at Summerslam. The Rock was the draw of WM28 and WM29, was he the top guy over Cena? Undertaker comes back once a year and outdraws the entire roster, Is he the top guy? HHH was getting top booking and was putting people over to create stars.

Did you really say you could put RVD in HHH's spot and nothing would change? This just made your entire post a joke. You think RVD could have led evolution? You think RVD could have made Batista and Orton stars? You think RVD could have been in the closing match of three WM's in four years? You think RVD could have cut 10-20 minutes promos at the opening of Raw on a weekly basis? Come on dude, I bet you want Dean Ambrose to break the streak too LMAO

Being the top guy means you get TOP BOOKING. It has nothing to do with popularity or being a draw. You label ever wrestler he wrestled as a higher draw saying that this means he wasnt the top guy. Umm..what did you want him to do main event agianst Chavo, or The Hurricane. Did Austin ever main event with people that werent also top draws? How about The Rock? HHH was booked like the top guy. He had the huge stable, held the belt for a huge amount of time, was put in every big match/main event, opened and closed damn near every Raw, and was the guy they used to try to make new stars. To argue that anybody was booked higher than HHH during this time period is just stupid. AND BTW HHH was a heel in almost every match you mention so OF COURSE A FREAKIN HEEL WASNT THE DRAWING FORCE!!! Faces put asses in seats, and HHH was a heel. Being a heel doesnt mean you aren't the top guy though.
O and you said Batista became the face of the company after beating HHH. Yea I know he did.....To be the man, you gotta beat the man. Thats how its always been.

 

[Mustang Sally]

The only reason HHH is where he is, is because he's fuck!ng Princess McMahon. HHH should have never gotten past "jobber to champions" status.

I don't agree with that at all. The body of work Triple H has put in over these many years is what cemented his status as a true legend of pro wrestling, not his relationship with Stephanie.

From being bombed out in 30 seconds by the Ultimate Warrior, to fighting in Arkansas Hog Pen matches with Henry O. Godwin, to fighting five matches in one night on Raw, to his multiple world championships, this guy has done the work. As I see it, people who use their personal relationships with those in power to get ahead usually get pushed forward without putting in the effort.

As to Jericho vs. Trips......who knows? It's dependent more on whose style you like better than who is technically more proficient. Jericho has an exciting arsenal of flying maneuvers while Triple H is the consummate mat wrestler; he works in roughhouse style while Jericho doesn't.

To answer the question, while Jericho is a treat to watch, I prefer Triple H's bullying tactics and ability to work with anyone, from high flyers (name anyone) to technicians (Undertaker) to bruisers with "real" fighting experience (Lesnar).

 

[Vance Ryan]

First off...The main event is ALWAYS the last match. Since day 1, since wrestling was first created, in every sport whether it be UFC or Boxing, the main event went on last. Now I agree that Rock-Hogan should have main evented but the fact is THAT IT DID NOT MAIN EVENT. HHH/Jericho went on last and closed the show. If you want to have a valid argument than state FACTS and not your opinions.

yeah you were right on this part but that shows how m uch either man ment on the card as opposed to the match that was actually putting the asses in the seats.

Secondly...A main event is always between two top guys. Since when did the person drawing the viewers mean that they are the top guy. Cena-Punk at MITB was centered around Punk and he was the one that was the draw, but he was NEVER the top guy. Same thing with Daniel Bryan-Cena at Summerslam. The Rock was the draw of WM28 and WM29, was he the top guy over Cena? Undertaker comes back once a year and outdraws the entire roster, Is he the top guy? HHH was getting top booking and was putting people over to create stars.

So laughable i can name countless matches where there were main events wwith one top guy.
does capital punishment John Cena vs R-Truth ring a bell. i could go into more but it would be a waste of time.

Did you really say you could put RVD in HHH's spot and nothing would change? This just made your entire post a joke. You think RVD could have led evolution? You think RVD could have made Batista and Orton stars? You think RVD could have been in the closing match of three WM's in four years? You think RVD could have cut 10-20 minutes promos at the opening of Raw on a weekly basis? Come on dude, I bet you want Dean Ambrose to break the streak too LMAO

what io was saying in those main events you couldve thrown anybody in that spot in the 2002-2003 and some of 4 main events because it was the oponent who was the draw not HHH.

Being the top guy means you get TOP BOOKING. It has nothing to do with popularity or being a draw. You label ever wrestler he wrestled as a higher draw saying that this means he wasnt the top guy. Umm..what did you want him to do main event agianst Chavo, or The Hurricane. Did Austin ever main event with people that werent also top draws? How about The Rock? HHH was booked like the top guy. He had the huge stable, held the belt for a huge amount of time, was put in every big match/main event, opened and closed damn near every Raw, and was the guy they used to try to make new stars. To argue that anybody was booked higher than HHH during this time period is just stupid. AND BTW HHH was a heel in almost every match you mention so OF COURSE A FREAKIN HEEL WASNT THE DRAWING FORCE!!! Faces put asses in seats, and HHH was a heel. Being a heel doesnt mean you aren't the top guy though.
O and you said Batista became the face of the company after beating HHH. Yea I know he did.....To be the man, you gotta beat the man. Thats how its always been.

Now you call me ignorant. top guy means you are the top draw so now you are going to tell nme next cena doesnt put asses in the seat. i tell you what when was the last time you heard of triple h selling out a show with his name alone?
O and next you probably gonna say Ric Flair did not sell out shows as a heel and hollywood hulk hogan. Face it HHH is not a Draw his Opponents were.

Look jericho is one of my favorite wrestlers of all time i use to mark whenever he came out in the 1997-2001 era. but im not sitting here trying to defend the fact that if he was in triple h spot it wouldve beeen the exact same results.

 

[Kidpolean]

yeah you were right on this part but that shows how m uch either man ment on the card as opposed to the match that was actually putting the asses in the seats.


So laughable i can name countless matches where there were main events wwith one top guy.
does capital punishment John Cena vs R-Truth ring a bell. i could go into more but it would be a waste of time.


what io was saying in those main events you couldve thrown anybody in that spot in the 2002-2003 and some of 4 main events because it was the oponent who was the draw not HHH.

Now you call me ignorant. top guy means you are the top draw so now you are going to tell nme next cena doesnt put asses in the seat. i tell you what when was the last time you heard of triple h selling out a show with his name alone?
O and next you probably gonna say Ric Flair did not sell out shows as a heel and hollywood hulk hogan. Face it HHH is not a Draw his Opponents were.

Look jericho is one of my favorite wrestlers of all time i use to mark whenever he came out in the 1997-2001 era. but im not sitting here trying to defend the fact that if he was in triple h spot it wouldve beeen the exact same results.

Top guy does not mean top draw...I dont think you understand wrestling at all. So your saying that as soon as you become the most over guy on the roster than you will get top booking? Ask Vince Mcmahon if this is true.
The top guy is booked as such for a long period of time, this has nothing to do with drawing power.

You couldnt have thrown anyone in those matches because the matches were centered around evolution. Storylines make matches. HHH was the only heel that was on a big enough level to carry the belt and put people over. What you are saying is silly.

Cena vs Truth REALLY REALLY? Even if you want to use this as an example you have to admit that Truth was being booked as a main eventer at the time. This is no different that HHH vs Benoit or HHH vs Batista....It was the top guy facing off with and unproven talent that was being pushed to the main event. The only difference is that Truth was unsuccessful. There is the rare gimmicky main events like Cena vs Laurinitis or Stone Cold vs Vince but those matches use storylines to draw.

Ill tell you when HHH sold out a show by himself when you tell me a show that Cena sold out by himself, or Rock, or Austin, or Lesnar, or anybody that got big after 1990. The days of a one man draw died out in the 80's which shows even more that you have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[CyberPunk]

Thread's like this prove how good WWE is at playing the crowd up and managing kayfabe when everything's out there in open. Jericho is excellent at what he does, but so is HHH. Whether Triple H was ever the "Top Guy" or not is academic. He has always been booked as a top guy, especially as a heel. And if he wouldn't have been making money, he would have dropped down the card long time ago. You can not argue that he is one of the best heels of all time. Jericho is great at playing both face and heel, but HHH is better as a heel. He can make you hate him so much. This thread proves it.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

To anyone arguing that Triple H wasn't the 'top guy' between 2002-2005... he was. Constantly booked at the top of the card. The title revolved around him the entire time. The top story's involved him. He was their top guy during that time... even if you don't like him.

Whether he deserved to be is of course a completely different discussion.

Who was the better all around wrestler though? Jericho. Jericho could work any style. He could adapt. He could have great matches with anyone. He could draw people in with his promos. And he understood how to give back to the business.

Triple H is a good wrestler. He doesn't get the credit he deserves because of who he is, and how he got to where he is, but he is good. He was by far the better politician than Jericho, and he's a guy that does everything very well.

But if you take away his political prowess, and put the two guys on even footing, I think Jericho has the better career. He was just more versatile, and honestly, more interesting than Triple H.

 

[Vance Ryan]

Top guy does not mean top draw...I dont think you understand wrestling at all. So your saying that as soon as you become the most over guy on the roster than you will get top booking? Ask Vince Mcmahon if this is true.
The top guy is booked as such for a long period of time, this has nothing to do with drawing power.

You couldnt have thrown anyone in those matches because the matches were centered around evolution. Storylines make matches. HHH was the only heel that was on a big enough level to carry the belt and put people over. What you are saying is silly.

Cena vs Truth REALLY REALLY? Even if you want to use this as an example you have to admit that Truth was being booked as a main eventer at the time. This is no different that HHH vs Benoit or HHH vs Batista....It was the top guy facing off with and unproven talent that was being pushed to the main event. The only difference is that Truth was unsuccessful. There is the rare gimmicky main events like Cena vs Laurinitis or Stone Cold vs Vince but those matches use storylines to draw.

Ill tell you when HHH sold out a show by himself when you tell me a show that Cena sold out by himself, or Rock, or Austin, or Lesnar, or anybody that got big after 1990. The days of a one man draw died out in the 80's which shows even more that you have no clue what you are talking about.

either way im saying the guy was never a top draw The man thats what the arguement is about not that he wasnt a top guy. he was one of them but to say he was the face of wwe is preposterous. HHH never sold out merchandise in almost every arena he went to in his career. like cena like him or not. rock,austin and hogan on a consistant basis. anyone who says HHH was the top draw in the 2002-2005 reign is completely ******ed.

 

[Kidpolean]

either way im saying the guy was never a top draw The man thats what the arguement is about not that he wasnt a top guy. he was one of them but to say he was the face of wwe is preposterous. HHH never sold out merchandise in almost every arena he went to in his career. like cena like him or not. rock,austin and hogan on a consistant basis. anyone who says HHH was the top draw in the 2002-2005 reign is completely ******ed.

OMG are you stupid or what.. Just admit you are wrong. All you keep saying is that it wasn't HHH...well who was the top guy?

Forget about merchandise sales and drawing power!

Name a wrestler that had more PPV' Main events than HHH in this time period

Name someone that had more camera time than HHH during this period

Name someone that Main evented more WM's than HHH during this time period

Almost every main event during 2002-2005 from Raw was centered around HHH and evolution.

Nobody is talking about being a draw. We are saying that HHH was the focal point of the wwe, he was the go to guy when a big match was needed, he was the guy used to make stars.

Im done with this argument because it is pointless. Im not even a HHH fan but the guy WAS the wwe during this time period. This was the only time the World title was the number one belt, and it was the top title because of HHH.

 

[Redrum]

Jericho by a good bit as some have already said while HHH is good and would of still been a big name he only got as big as he did do to screwing the princess and that's just a fact. Look at HHH and his role in the company before and where it was going. Was he going to be a superstar and hold multiple world titles maybe but nothing like he ended up getting. Once he banged his way into the family he became until Cena took over the focus of WWE week in and week out.

Jericho IMO would of had a much larger role during the 2000s and had more and longer reigns as champion had HHH not become part of the family. He is better in the ring and better on the mic he has much more charisma and star power then HHH has by alot.


Also i am not blaming HHH for what he did i mean it was a very smart move. Steph is hot and he was marrying not only into money but also into a position to make him the focus of a profession which he took pride in. Most everyone in the locker room would of done the same damn thing if they could have.

 

[Alastor]

Within the WWE system, HHH by far. Jericho is good and can steal the show in the mid card, but he loses out due to his lack of size and stature. HHH can do anything Jericho can do within the WWE but his size allows him to tell different stories in the ring with different top stars. HHH can be the power guy, the weaker guy or the faster mobile guy (pre quads) depending on his foes in the main event.

Jericho due to his size and WWE's preference for main event wrestlers during his time is limited in the stories he can tell with the bigger names.