It's all about the Wrestling

[ryder123]

Over the past few months WWE has been up and down with it's current Story and Creative development. I read a thread recently about how the Authority angle is all over the place with Triple H and Stephanie floating between Good guys and Bad guys. Its easy to predict how Raw will start each week, The Authority or Randy Orton. The current stories are confusing but the WRESTLING part of the show is fantastic.

Last year WWE put on some really great main events, many of those main events featured CM Punk in singles action against John Cena, Chris Jericho and this year is know different with main events like, Daniel Bryan against Randy Orton, Kofi Kingston vs Orton, The Shield 6 Man tag Team Matches and of course CM Punk vs The Shield. All those matches have been Pay Per View worthy over the past year. My favorite has to be CM Punk vs John Cena last year for Cena's #1 Contendership for Wrestlemania. That match had everything from Piledrivers to Cena's Hurricanrana nearly crushing his own neck in the process.

This Year, and its only February, has once again displayed some great matches including, Alberto Del Rio and Kofi Kingston, Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton and also the Tag Teams, its great seeing Cody and Goldust compete on a weekly basis, Goldust is in great shape and performs solid every week.

We all know that the next two weeks will see more great matches leading into Elimination Chamber. I usually hate the product between Royal Rumble and Elimination Chamber due to the fact that wrestlemania is just around the corner but this year is different, Last week we saw a great match between Randy Orton and Daniel Bryan and last night, Randy Orton and John Cena went at it in possibly their best match since their fued re-started. I even watch NXT as the Matches in it are Fantastic and on February 27th we will get a Ladder Match between Adrian Neville and Bo Dallas for the NXT Championship and that will be great.

Although the Creative and Stories aren't up to scratch and its mainly due to the fan participation, the Matches make up for it in some form or another. Jim Ross classed Last Nights Raw as SOLID, Story wise? Painful but Wrestling? Solid and I have to agree with him. Does anybody else like the current display of Matches and will they get better with future Superstars?

 

[Sweettre15]

Oh yeah, The one thing I will praise is the excellent In-Ring product as of late. Some of the best Televised In-Ring action has happened in WWE from late 2013 up to this point.

Especially the Tag matches as of late. That is actually the main reason I continue to watch at this point.

 

[ASKane]

WWE's creative and writing teams may not have a clue what they are doing day to day but they have talented wrestlers on the roster who are able to make the show the better. On pure in ring work alone I only think Cena needs to go as he drags down all his matches as he cant sell and does the same boring spots every week but in general the rest of the roster has lots of talent and the only time it doesn't show is when they are competing hurt like CM Punk and Christian. For me Wrestling>Story because bad wrestling can ruin a feud but great wrestling can make a terrible story passable. In my mind WWE have only combined great wrestling with a great story once since Wrestlemania 29 and that was Shield vs Rhodes. The wrestlers are carrying the creative team at the moment and that needs to change if WWE want to be more successful.

Wrestling>Story
Heath Slater>Cena

 

[MCMG]

The Triple H effect? Perhaps.

I think there are, overall, better matches on TV. Thanks to guys like The Shield, Orton, Punk, Bryan and even Cena. Maybe Triple H thinks that a higher quality of match in the ring is vital. Indeed, he was a full time wrestler for about +15 years. His input will be different from a lot of figures in the past.

There is a lot of talent on the roster and 5 hours of TV. They need to give each guy an opportunity. Sometimes that means matches are really short and, while I'm no expert, I'm guessing giving mid-carders longer for matches makes it a lot easier for them and the chance to shine.

 

[Arsenal]

The in-ring action may be great, but character development and storylines are worse than ever. At the end of the day people aren't going to care about great matches that are completely random, have no build, have no characters of interest, and are repeated over and over again every week.

 

[CyberPunk]

I have to agree with the OP. Stories and creative things aside, the matches on the shows have been top notch. In fact, some of the matches on TV have been better than PPV matches in last few years. It may be partly due to HHH, and other part goes to the talented in-ring workers WWE has at this point.

Whoever is putting together the matches knows what he/she is doing. May be it is because the wrestlers have more say in how their matches should go. If only now they can start working on characters and stories... I can only wish.

 

[laodaron]

I take a different perspective.

Why do you think that the matches are so good? It's because great wrestlers are getting booked against other. It's because the writers are creating storylines that compel the viewer to care.

That, and the performance center and NXT.

 

[Raptor93]

Wow someone trashed cena hasn't been slammed for it XD

But back to the main point, unfortunately while wrestlings been great for us hardcore fans, it wont raise the numbers of the show which will lead to bright ideas like bringing batista back and ultimately shit all over our good wrestling matches. While good wrestling is fun we need these guys to have marketable characters or personalities to keep it going or they get buried like ziggler for boring ***** like del rio -_-

 

[mlp420]

What are they wrestling for? If the storylines aren't up to par it means nothing how good the wrestling is. If the outcome of the matches don't matter, who cares? It's just filler.

It's like preseason basketball & football. Nobody cares about how good a preseason sports game is because the games don't count. That's essentially Raw every week outside of the first show of each month where they set up the next PPV. And even then it's underwhelming. Hell, even when they bring back the big names I could care less. It's just a substitute for compelling week-to-week TV.

 

[closet_fan]

Actual "wrestling" is only a small part of what makes the product entertaining. The storyline and character development is what makes the match even better.

If it was all about what happens in the ring than guys like Dean Malenko would have ruled the roost.

 

[Jamesbrookz24]

I think it's funny that most of you who are saying that wrestling>storyline are the same people who will say attitude era was the best era in wrestling ever. The attitude era was famous for its story telling and edgy product and not so much for the actual wrestling. Aside from guys like jericho, angle, hardys, edge and christian ect, the wrestling for the most part was pretty average. But yet it is almost everyone's favorite era so I'm not sure how that makes wrestling better then storytelling. This isn't a movie it's professional wrestling. It also isn't Olympic style wrestling it is SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT. To me the storytelling and the wrestling go hand in hand, the product is simply better when both of those components are on point. The wwe right now has a lot of major talent that can go inside the ring all that is missing is the good stories to go along with it. If WWE can somehow find a way to make compelling angles it could be the start of a great era in wrestling. They have great in ring talent but lack star power. They have the tools to create main eve tears but they just aren't using them that is why both are equally important IMO.

 

[enviousdominous]

What irks me is when you have someone who was successful regarding a particular generation's expectations of entertainment, and they feel that their ability to appeal to that generation makes them universally appealing over all generations. Either by creating what was so entertaining or by relating to it well. Few things truly transcend the generation gap.

Sometimes you just have to figuratively put on a blind fold and feel around in unfamiliar territory until you hit on something that strikes the right nerve with the current generation.

One of the few things that the WWE has that seems to bridge the gap between generations of interest is capable athletes who have the necessary heart to put on an exciting show. Obviously how they do all that is a huge factor, but it seems like they're shifting back to fewer promos and more wrestling.

Promos are cute, and sometimes they can help hype a match. Sometimes they're so god awful, especially to a generation that deliberately doesn't "get it", and they ruin a potential match. I honestly don't think that anyone was upset that Randy Orton threw some off-camera punches at John Cena's dad, I don't think anyone cared that John's dad didn't press charges even though the commentators constantly quipped "He's lucky that John Cena's dad didn't press charges" implying that there's this whole elaborate side story evolving behind the scenes. I also don't think that anybody cared if Big Show's house got repossessed even though on multiple occasions HHH would say "I'm gonna' repossess his house!".

My point is that I think that the WWE is starting to give less time to promos, and more time to letting the matches play out to a high-spot finish. I realize that they did cut a Dolph Ziggler match pretty short if only to work a Batista segment into the show, and that Daniel Bryan was reduced to a bit part with Kane. The Real Americans vs Christian and Sheamus was truly the highlight of the night however, I don't think a match like that was lost on anyone for lack of an ability to appeal to their generation.

WWE is an entertainment based company that's desperate to figure out a way to entertain the crowd and entertain themselves at the same time. When they bomb repeatedly in an attempt to make a Lawrence Welk meets Law and Order style of programming, at least they can return to good timeless wrestling.

 

[ThePhenomLives]

Tho if the storylines were better so would the matches be. It adds to the quality if two wrestlers in the ring are fighting for a reason or there's a backstory. I don't get why it's so hard to combine these two elements.

 

[ad556]

Over the past few months WWE has been up and down with it's current Story and Creative development. I read a thread recently about how the Authority angle is all over the place with Triple H and Stephanie floating between Good guys and Bad guys. Its easy to predict how Raw will start each week, The Authority or Randy Orton. The current stories are confusing but the WRESTLING part of the show is fantastic.

Last year WWE put on some really great main events, many of those main events featured CM Punk in singles action against John Cena, Chris Jericho and this year is know different with main events like, Daniel Bryan against Randy Orton, Kofi Kingston vs Orton, The Shield 6 Man tag Team Matches and of course CM Punk vs The Shield. All those matches have been Pay Per View worthy over the past year. My favorite has to be CM Punk vs John Cena last year for Cena's #1 Contendership for Wrestlemania. That match had everything from Piledrivers to Cena's Hurricanrana nearly crushing his own neck in the process.

This Year, and its only February, has once again displayed some great matches including, Alberto Del Rio and Kofi Kingston, Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton and also the Tag Teams, its great seeing Cody and Goldust compete on a weekly basis, Goldust is in great shape and performs solid every week.

We all know that the next two weeks will see more great matches leading into Elimination Chamber. I usually hate the product between Royal Rumble and Elimination Chamber due to the fact that wrestlemania is just around the corner but this year is different, Last week we saw a great match between Randy Orton and Daniel Bryan and last night, Randy Orton and John Cena went at it in possibly their best match since their fued re-started. I even watch NXT as the Matches in it are Fantastic and on February 27th we will get a Ladder Match between Adrian Neville and Bo Dallas for the NXT Championship and that will be great.

Although the Creative and Stories aren't up to scratch and its mainly due to the fan participation, the Matches make up for it in some form or another. Jim Ross classed Last Nights Raw as SOLID, Story wise? Painful but Wrestling? Solid and I have to agree with him. Does anybody else like the current display of Matches and will they get better with future Superstars?

I can say this, i know many will disagree but pointing out the Cena Orton match this week, i watched most of it and i can tell you being a long time fan from the 90s, it was horrible.

I would rather watch my wwf dvds anyway over WWE, the product is stale its crap all they do is shove Cena and Orton down our throats, the product has not been watchable probably since mid to the start of last year, and going till around Christmas, then WWE dropped the ball big time.

Off Topic...

I am not a TNA mark, although i do enjoy TNA's product alot more cause im an old school fan, im 22 going onto 23 and i remember back in 99 WCW and WWF both delivered great matches, stories, and character development.

I can say that TNA is doing everything right as of now to push their product, yeah ok TNA is not as good as it was in 2002 - 2009 even some 2010 stuff was fantastic, after Hogan came not long after it got run down, not straight away though the RVD title reign and even Austin Aries reign was fantastic, yeah Immortal was not great and Fortune, but you gotta hand it to TNA.

Coming off a long run, people have said TNA will die for years, but TNA scored a 1.3 rating, there best rating all year and considering not many people know what TNA is thats a great effort, i wish WWE would cater for older fans but i guess not.

 

[laodaron]

I can say this, i know many will disagree but pointing out the Cena Orton match this week, i watched most of it and i can tell you being a long time fan from the 90s, it was horrible.

I would rather watch my wwf dvds anyway over WWE, the product is stale its crap all they do is shove Cena and Orton down our throats, the product has not been watchable probably since mid to the start of last year, and going till around Christmas, then WWE dropped the ball big time.

Off Topic...

I am not a TNA mark, although i do enjoy TNA's product alot more cause im an old school fan, im 22 going onto 23 and i remember back in 99 WCW and WWF both delivered great matches, stories, and character development.

I can say that TNA is doing everything right as of now to push their product, yeah ok TNA is not as good as it was in 2002 - 2009 even some 2010 stuff was fantastic, after Hogan came not long after it got run down, not straight away though the RVD title reign and even Austin Aries reign was fantastic, yeah Immortal was not great and Fortune, but you gotta hand it to TNA.

Coming off a long run, people have said TNA will die for years, but TNA scored a 1.3 rating, there best rating all year and considering not many people know what TNA is thats a great effort, i wish WWE would cater for older fans but i guess not.

Let's be honest. You grew up in the era of the least talented wrestling in pro-wrestling's history. You were 10 when the WCW Invasion angle happened. From that point on, it was all spots and blades. Crimson masks. That isn't wrestling, that's garbage.

The WWE putting Cena and Orton into a 25-30 minute match is really really good wrestling. Those two are easily understood as being two incredible working hands in the industry. What they create is generally a really good product. The problem is that neither of them has changed since their debut in 2002, except to add some more moves to their set.

 

[Dragonslayer]

I agree with the OP and would also say that a lot of the entertainment value of the currently really high-class wrestling matches comes from a reviving Tag Team division.

I'd say both The Shield and Cody Rhodes/Goldust have done wonders for this development, and I think the reason lies in the booking, especially that of the Shield: From day one, the Shield may have been essentially a tag team, particularly Rollins and Reigns, but from day one, they've also continuously kept interferting and messing with the upper echelon of WWE's superstars, all the way up to Cena and even the nigh untouchable Undertaker.

So while WWE has always had "gimmicky" tag teams in the past, those teams were usually always created with little known wrestlers (e.g. the Usos), and thus were never more than Undercard or, at best, Mid-Card guys. Sure, WWE tried to balance that out by throwing together two A-Listers into seemingly random tag teams in an effort to elevate the belts, but that never really worked out, because those teams just didn't have an organic, "real team" feel about them.

But the Shield IS a "real" team, and by booking them in a dominant way against top tier Superstars, while at the same time having them actually wrestle and feud in the (mid-card) Tag Team level, WWE managed to a) elevate the shield and make them seem like top tier contenders, b) elevate the tag team scene & titles and c) elevate the Shield's opponents to a nigher level as well, just by fighting with/against the "increased importance" of the Shield.

I believe that this was the main reasons the Usos got over: They were always good workers, but if they didn't have an important team in the Shield to go up against, I guess they would not have gotten over themselves as much as they have, for a "pure" tag team. The involvement of upper-mid-card guys like Cody Rhodes and Goldust, and of course the Wyatt Family (thanks to Bray's phenomenal mic work) has added to that situation.

WWE really is in a decent spot now with their Tag Team scene, if they don't drop the ball, it would be cool to see a resurgence of - or at least a reminiscence to - the great tag team days of yore.

That's not so say that the singles work hasn't picked up a notch as well; there's definitely a good cast of able in-ring performers at work right now... the storylines may be a bit stale right now, but at least the matches are usually really good, because say what you will, but guys like Cena, Orton, Del Rio, Daniel Bryan, CM Punk and a handful of others who've been making up the main event scene as of late are all well above-average ring workers, and can put on great matches if they set their minds to it.

 

[L@RISANO]

The wrestling that I have thus far has been top notch, and more fast paced than it used to be back in the AE.
However, as many have said, the storylines suck. Not because the actual story ideas are bad, but a combination of having quite a few fickle fans, and the WWE dropping the ball on developing storyline feuds for no reason or poor booking choices in some cases.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

The best thing about Raw in the last two years has been the match quality. There's generally two or three good-to-great matches on every show. A lot of that is the talent roster that has come up recently, with The Shield, the Wyatt Family, Daniel Bryan, etc etc. But a ton of it is WWE management just giving the time to the wrestlers to...well, wrestle.

Problem is, two years ago the wrestling was crap, and the stories were meh. I barely watched Raw then, but I usually turn off Raw now despite the decent matches. Because here's the thing: I watch a LOT of wrestling every week. Even a great match on Raw still isn't as technically sound as a solid Ring of Honor or PWG match. But the stories now are AWFUL. Honestly, there aren't many. I just watch to see who moves up and down. I want a lot of guys to succeed. The roster is great, and if they were an indie company, they would be amazing. But they're not. They're a TV show that has no pop or sizzle in the creative department.

There has to be a mix of the two. And I don't think Raw has it right now. I'm glad the match quality is better, but I feel like the producers have kicked it up a notch, and the creative directors have fallen off a cliff.

 

[closet_fan]

The WWE can't really make everyone happy. Some like excellent storytelling with a so-so match. Others prefer a good match in the ring.

That's why some love Ziggler and ADR while others hate them. Both are good in the ring, which caters to those who like what happens in a match. Others hate them because of their character and the way they are (or aren't used) in a storyline.

It's pretty rare that you get a good storyline AND a good match to bring it all to a head. I think a perfect example of both being good was when Jericho and Michaels had feuded..

Great story
Great promos
Great character development during the feud itself
Great in-ring action

I've always said that was the last true feud that catered to everyone and left everyone happy.

 

[ryder123]

I can say this, i know many will disagree but pointing out the Cena Orton match this week, i watched most of it and i can tell you being a long time fan from the 90s, it was horrible.

I would rather watch my wwf dvds anyway over WWE, the product is stale its crap all they do is shove Cena and Orton down our throats, the product has not been watchable probably since mid to the start of last year, and going till around Christmas, then WWE dropped the ball big time.

Off Topic...

I am not a TNA mark, although i do enjoy TNA's product alot more cause im an old school fan, im 22 going onto 23 and i remember back in 99 WCW and WWF both delivered great matches, stories, and character development.

I can say that TNA is doing everything right as of now to push their product, yeah ok TNA is not as good as it was in 2002 - 2009 even some 2010 stuff was fantastic, after Hogan came not long after it got run down, not straight away though the RVD title reign and even Austin Aries reign was fantastic, yeah Immortal was not great and Fortune, but you gotta hand it to TNA.

Coming off a long run, people have said TNA will die for years, but TNA scored a 1.3 rating, there best rating all year and considering not many people know what TNA is thats a great effort, i wish WWE would cater for older fans but i guess not.

I also grew up watching Wrestling in the 90's, mostly late 90's, early 2000. Heres the thing, That time is over! I appreciate everything from those days, The Stories, Promos and Matches were top notch and edge of the seat entertainment. I do agree that the reason the action is better is due to Triple H being at the helm. Vince still has the final word but its Triple H who is giving us great Matches. As I mentioned at the start, NXT is putting on some of the greatest matches of this Generation, Everyweek on Raw we are given a Pay Per View worthy match. Randy Orton and Cena are still at the top because they're good at their job. I don't dislike Cena or Orton, heck it does get annoying seeing the match play out time and time again but their match on Raw was the their best match since the fued got going again and i'll stick by that. At the end of it all, Some of us are sick of seeing Cena and Orton on TV but if we attended a Live event and either men no-showed, I'd be annoyed.

 

[TheVolFan52]

I agree that the in ring product has been great recently but I'm giving all the credit to the wrestlers. WWE has some great in ring talent (Bryan, Cesaro, Sheamus, Wyatt, Zigglar) and the roster today is one of the best WWE has had in years as far as actual wrestling goes. At the same time I would like to see more compelling storylines instead of just matches like we've been getting lately. I like a good mix of both story and actual wrestling and I feel like Raw should be split 50/50 as far as promos and wrestling. Almost every big match in wwe history had a story with it. Part of the reason why I think we've gotten less story lines is because Raw went to three hours. It just feels like a lot of matches are filler and quite frankly I don't think the Creative team can come up with enough stories to fill 3 hrs worth of television so the just throw matches out there.

 

[Thejock83]

The one positive about 3 hour RAW has been allowing 2-3 matches to be given time to tell a proper story and let the fans get into it. Example, a couple of weeks ago Del Rio v Rey. The crown were on there hands at the beginning but after 15 odd minutes they were on the edge of their seats.

 

[ad556]

I also grew up watching Wrestling in the 90's, mostly late 90's, early 2000. Heres the thing, That time is over! I appreciate everything from those days, The Stories, Promos and Matches were top notch and edge of the seat entertainment. I do agree that the reason the action is better is due to Triple H being at the helm. Vince still has the final word but its Triple H who is giving us great Matches. As I mentioned at the start, NXT is putting on some of the greatest matches of this Generation, Everyweek on Raw we are given a Pay Per View worthy match. Randy Orton and Cena are still at the top because they're good at their job. I don't dislike Cena or Orton, heck it does get annoying seeing the match play out time and time again but their match on Raw was the their best match since the fued got going again and i'll stick by that. At the end of it all, Some of us are sick of seeing Cena and Orton on TV but if we attended a Live event and either men no-showed, I'd be annoyed.

The NXT thing i can agree with what you have said, yes NXT has some pretty good quality matches, but for me seeing the same Wrestlers over and over again does not do it for me, i watch a little bit of WWE here and there, i probably watch about 10 minutes of RAW today before i switched off the tv, my step dad loves wrestling so whenever i go into the kitchen i will catch a glimpse of it, WWE for me is stale i know some people will agree and some won't, everyone has an opinion.

You are right about how Cena and Orton's characters have not changed, for me i am also a old school ROH fan, going off topic. I watch Samoa Joe v Punk matches and old school TNA dvds from 04 till 2010, as i stated in the other thread.

For myself TNA is my wrestling fix, and i can honestly say to me they are doing a way better job then WWE, with MVP in it and all but thats for another thread.

I hope WWE push younger stars sooner then later, its unfair that guys like Dolph Ziggler and Daniel Bryan even Cesaro are so talented, yet it seems like there going to get there break to become main attractions, and some how some way WWE ruins it, just with the Dolph Ziggler World Heavyweight Championship win, then he loses the belt straight away, you wonder why fans turn away.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Stories suck? Wyatts vs Shield and the Daniel Bryan saga are pretty awesome. I think the product as a whole is pretty good. Some things seem confusing now, but keep in mind, we don't know the end point.