It didn't take long for WWE to mock Lawler.
- Thread starter waylonmercy
- Start date
Radical Canadian Goose
Getting Noticed By Management
Ok, I don't want to read through 11 pages of responses, so I'm sorry if this hasn't already been said. I think that if you don't like it get over it, you will still tune in next week. Edgier stuff has been done before, and will been done in the future. Did I like it? No. Do I hope this is the beginning of a new edgier era? Yes
Vince either didn't care and did it anyways or you can go with people saying Vince wouldn't have ran it unless Jerry gave it the O K. It's one or the other. But because we don't know which one it is, there's no point in assuming. I'm reading some posts and some people are so sure Vince didn't care and did it anyways that they're resorting to childish name calling. We don't know what it was and we can talk about it until we're blue in the face, but unless we hear it from the horse's mouth so to speak, this is just going to go back and forth.
Exactly, over the years heel wrestlers have always claimed they caused their opponents' legit injuries and would mock their opponents for getting hurt or sick. Hell back in the `60s Ox Baker even claimed responsibility for two of his opponents actually dying after their matches against him. He would claim his finishing move, The Heart Punch caused them to die.
Pro wrestling is not, never was, and never will be politically correct and nor should it be. It's a show where violence is not a last resort but a first response. Is some lame Elvis impersonator tryin' to steal your girl? Crash a guitar upside his head. The boss giving you a hard time? Wreck his car and pour beer allover his sorry ass. Do you feel your buddy is holding you down or not carrying his share of the load? Kick him through a window because that's how we roll around here.
SinCityBlitz
Crossface Chickenwing
hyp·o·crit·i·cal
1.
of the nature of hypocrisy, or pretense of having virtues, beliefs, principles, etc., that one does not actually possess:
Maybe it's just me but that sounds exactly like someone being offended by a heart attack angle and wishing a heart attack and death on someone else.
The angle got the response that the WWE and Lawler wanted. I have NO doubts that Lawler gave the okay. The fact that he himself joked about it later in the night is the dead give away. If people are outraged they need to be outraged at Jerry for aloowing the angle
MrMojoRisin
Championship Contender
Yes, because it was crystal clear that's exactly what you were saying...
Oh wait, it was actually clear as mud.
Unless of course, you also believe that Savage, Piper, Andre, Hart, and McMahon all knew nothing about being a heel and getting heat?
So actually the only thing you didn't like was Heyman faking the heart attack? So that's what you've been arguing about with multiple people on here? Seriously? And not because it was in bad taste... but just because it wasn't done good enough? Really?
Since you don't care about the appropriate factor, let me fill you in. They did that to be douchebags. Sometimes... heels can be douchebags. It's hard to believe, I know. But it's true.
Umm no. Punk and Heyman didn't look like a couple of guys that called a 400 lb bully fat. They looked like assholes. The type of assholes that would mock a heart attack in front of a guy that just survived a massive one. You think doing that will just make you the target of ridicule? Tell you what. Go down to the hospital. Go to the cardiac ward. Walk into the room of a guy in recovery. Make sure that his family is present. Fake a heart attack and then get up laughing and pointing at the guy. Tell me how that goes.
Yeah that whole segment was awful. Last nights was nothing like that, and if you think it was... you are obviously watching something different from everyone else.
You know it really says a lot that you keep talking about an NWO skit from 15 years ago that was ripped off of a DX skit, not done half as well, and is remembered more (if it's remembered at all) for the fact that it was mean spirited and only caused a bigger fracture in the dressing room instead of increasing interest in their product as one of your all time favorite moments.
Yet everyone else is the massive idiot?
Yeah I don't think so.
Real life threatening issues shouldn't be mocked. End of story. It doesn't matter if it's on Attitude Era, PG Era, WCW or whatever. We are talking about a person almost dying, really dying. And once you have a heart attack there is always a high chance you might have it again. What if he suffers one tomorrow and goes to hospital again? Not so funny now huh? REGARDLESS of what the crowd reaction was, a right is right and a wrong is wrong. No need to try to manipulate and make it less disturbing. Just ask Animal what he thinks about WWE mocking Hawk. Or any other segment for that regard. That's attitude Era at it's best for you. So I'm not trying to burn PG era, I'm just talking about not doing stupid stuff. If you are not offended, it doesn't make you more of a man or less of an idiot. There are fifty thousand things that you can come up with when you want to mock someone. Not this. Not like this
I have no interest in seing that footage. I think it was in bad taste but first and foremost, totally uneccesairy.
I have no problem with CM Punk and Heymans part in the Segment though however.....I think Punk is trying his damndest to be a HEEL and get all these fans off his back. What better way to get the fans against you than sick jokes about a man who almost died?
All casual fans and some of the IWC have already begun to dislike CMpunk...so it must be working? Right?
HEEL
Remember!
I have no problem with CM Punk and Heymans part in the Segment though however.....I think Punk is trying his damndest to be a HEEL and get all these fans off his back. What better way to get the fans against you than sick jokes about a man who almost died?
All casual fans and some of the IWC have already begun to dislike CMpunk...so it must be working? Right?
HEEL
Remember!
Mr Mojo Brain the Size of a Raisin: Now that I know you hate it that I don't quote you, I'll make sure to go the juvenile-Punk/Heyman-as -dictated- on -teleprompter -by -Vince McMahon heel route and not quote you. Again you're trying to put words in my mouth that aren't there so you can pick apart my overall argument. You'e looking way too far into the examples I gave of ways old school heels generated heat. I used examples of shocking moments where heels were all better at generating heat than Punk and Heyman mocking Lawler's heart attack. I used some of the best examples and I used one with Papa Shango that wasn't all that popular with you. Being a kid at the time, watching Warrior puking his guts out made a lot of kids scared as fuck of Papa Shango and I know I too instantly hated him until I realized he was a shitty, non-threatening wrestler. The Papa Shango example is the closest thing I can think of to what Punk and Heyman did because only a child could really fall for something so over the top and corny. Adults and older teenagers probably thought that Warrior segment was really stupid and looking back it was pretty stupid. But it worked with kids and definitely worked better than this. Anyway, regardless if it was crystal clear which one of my examples were good and which ones were not so good for you, I believe all of them happened to be better examples of old school heels generating more authentic heat.
The argument I've tried to make here is that Punk and Heyman came across pretty goofy and like non-threatening heels. There's nothing all that wrong with Punk trash talking Lawler and jabbing him with a few appropriate heart attack insults. Appropriate as in well timed, not as in distasteful. The more well timed distastefulness, the better. It would have been tasteless had Punk ranted for 5 minutes about it with little crowd reaction. The digs were fine and the whole segment was going in the right direction. So yes, my argument is about the feigned heart attack. The timing would have been better if it was during a match or if it was a few segments later with Heyman getting extremely riled up first. There could have been a build up to it so it wouldn't have come across as distasteful because it would have served a purpose and had some entertainment value. But Punk is already over as a heel. Heyman feigned the heart attack, not Punk, and I have no clue how that even really generates heat for Punk. Heyman is a mouth piece but collapsing and trying to imitate a serious heart attack while Punk does CPR comes across stupid. Shawn Michaels with God vs Vince and Shane McMahon stupid. But faking a heart attack with no response from the commentators, Lawler or the crowd? Heyman was essentially hung out to dry by Vince, Trips and Steph. To me it looked like it was done to make Heyman look pathetic. Not like a mean douche but a stupid douche. Main event heels shouldn't be stupid douches because that's just lame. Like Heath Slater singing about being a One Man Band lame. There was even less of a crowd reaction to the feigned heart attack than there was to Slater's singing! I mean it's right up there on youtube to watch and I've watched both over and over. Just because you liked it and didn't like the Slater segment doesn't mean it was nothing like it. It was similar. You had celebrity/wrestler pros like Heyman and Lawler in one and Piper and Lauper in another segment trying without any luck to get the greener younger guys over as worse heels. And the crowd reaction summed up how successful both efforts were. And that's about as 'crystal clear' as I can get with what I've said about 10 times.
Mr Raisin, have you ever watched anyone mock a heart attack victim to their face before? In real life? I mean, seriously, who does that? It just doesn't make any sense. If I went into a hospital and feigned a heart attack, they'd probably escort me to the mental asylum. Family members and people watching it would definitely just look at each other and roll their eyes and be scared to go anywhere near me as they'd think I was a psycho. Or they'd beat me up for being socially awkward. In this scenario, I could draw more heat for myself if I walked into such a room and told these people that their loved one who almost died was a flaming queer or a prick who deserved to die. See, Lawler and Heyman could have approached it from the angle that Lawler could have done the WWE a favour and just died because that's the only way Lawler will ever leave WWE. A true heel would have built up the verbal insults for weeks before even going the heart attack route. I mean, to me, it's more of a series of events that need to happen before you even go that route. Like Punk one ups Lawler, Lawler one ups Punk for weeks and then the unthinkable..Heyman feigns a heart attack. You PG loving WWE fanatic smarks don't get logical storytelling so you could care less if there's a logical buildup of hatred that leads to going that far or just an immediate feigned heart attack for cheap temporary heat that wasn't really logical in the feud's progression.
As for my WCW example, the NWO didn't rip off DX bud, get your facts straight, everything the NWO did was ripped off by DX except the suck it. The NWO segment mocking the 4 Horsemen might have added a bit to a dressing room fracture. But it was disarray behind the scenes in WCW almost the entire duration of the NWO. Matches involving legends who refused to job/lose to one another caused a situation where no one knew the match ending till the last minute or even at all going into the matches. My NWO/Horseman example is one you keep going back to over and over again to try and discredit my argument but, like the segment last night, it's just not working and your efforts should, like the segment, just be scrapped. And I didn't say everyone else was a massive idiot. You just put those words in my mouth. What I said in almost the exact same words was that my intelligence is offended that I feel I have to keep explaining to one or two of you on the pro-feigned heart attack side my argument against. It's like you think you can destroy my opinion by putting words in my mouth and then showing faults in the logic of the words that YOU put in my mouth..when there isn't any major faults in my actual argument.
The argument I've tried to make here is that Punk and Heyman came across pretty goofy and like non-threatening heels. There's nothing all that wrong with Punk trash talking Lawler and jabbing him with a few appropriate heart attack insults. Appropriate as in well timed, not as in distasteful. The more well timed distastefulness, the better. It would have been tasteless had Punk ranted for 5 minutes about it with little crowd reaction. The digs were fine and the whole segment was going in the right direction. So yes, my argument is about the feigned heart attack. The timing would have been better if it was during a match or if it was a few segments later with Heyman getting extremely riled up first. There could have been a build up to it so it wouldn't have come across as distasteful because it would have served a purpose and had some entertainment value. But Punk is already over as a heel. Heyman feigned the heart attack, not Punk, and I have no clue how that even really generates heat for Punk. Heyman is a mouth piece but collapsing and trying to imitate a serious heart attack while Punk does CPR comes across stupid. Shawn Michaels with God vs Vince and Shane McMahon stupid. But faking a heart attack with no response from the commentators, Lawler or the crowd? Heyman was essentially hung out to dry by Vince, Trips and Steph. To me it looked like it was done to make Heyman look pathetic. Not like a mean douche but a stupid douche. Main event heels shouldn't be stupid douches because that's just lame. Like Heath Slater singing about being a One Man Band lame. There was even less of a crowd reaction to the feigned heart attack than there was to Slater's singing! I mean it's right up there on youtube to watch and I've watched both over and over. Just because you liked it and didn't like the Slater segment doesn't mean it was nothing like it. It was similar. You had celebrity/wrestler pros like Heyman and Lawler in one and Piper and Lauper in another segment trying without any luck to get the greener younger guys over as worse heels. And the crowd reaction summed up how successful both efforts were. And that's about as 'crystal clear' as I can get with what I've said about 10 times.
Mr Raisin, have you ever watched anyone mock a heart attack victim to their face before? In real life? I mean, seriously, who does that? It just doesn't make any sense. If I went into a hospital and feigned a heart attack, they'd probably escort me to the mental asylum. Family members and people watching it would definitely just look at each other and roll their eyes and be scared to go anywhere near me as they'd think I was a psycho. Or they'd beat me up for being socially awkward. In this scenario, I could draw more heat for myself if I walked into such a room and told these people that their loved one who almost died was a flaming queer or a prick who deserved to die. See, Lawler and Heyman could have approached it from the angle that Lawler could have done the WWE a favour and just died because that's the only way Lawler will ever leave WWE. A true heel would have built up the verbal insults for weeks before even going the heart attack route. I mean, to me, it's more of a series of events that need to happen before you even go that route. Like Punk one ups Lawler, Lawler one ups Punk for weeks and then the unthinkable..Heyman feigns a heart attack. You PG loving WWE fanatic smarks don't get logical storytelling so you could care less if there's a logical buildup of hatred that leads to going that far or just an immediate feigned heart attack for cheap temporary heat that wasn't really logical in the feud's progression.
As for my WCW example, the NWO didn't rip off DX bud, get your facts straight, everything the NWO did was ripped off by DX except the suck it. The NWO segment mocking the 4 Horsemen might have added a bit to a dressing room fracture. But it was disarray behind the scenes in WCW almost the entire duration of the NWO. Matches involving legends who refused to job/lose to one another caused a situation where no one knew the match ending till the last minute or even at all going into the matches. My NWO/Horseman example is one you keep going back to over and over again to try and discredit my argument but, like the segment last night, it's just not working and your efforts should, like the segment, just be scrapped. And I didn't say everyone else was a massive idiot. You just put those words in my mouth. What I said in almost the exact same words was that my intelligence is offended that I feel I have to keep explaining to one or two of you on the pro-feigned heart attack side my argument against. It's like you think you can destroy my opinion by putting words in my mouth and then showing faults in the logic of the words that YOU put in my mouth..when there isn't any major faults in my actual argument.
T2KFreeker
Getting Noticed By Management
Hmm, I am conflicted on this one. On one hand, anyone expecting anything other than what happened with this hasn't been watching wrestling long. I can say that wishing for Vince McMahon to have a Heart Attack and die isn't exactly showing your compassion either. Sadly, the only reason Vince would have had to film what was happening would be to use it down the road though, weather Jerry lived or died, and that's what ultimately bothers me. However, I'm also disturbed by the same people bitching about stale product and bad story lines being the one's saying "Taqke it easy, just sit back and enjoy the product." Yeah, you remember this when it's you compaining about the part of the show you didn't like. "Cena sucks so bad, I hate his guts. Why is the title on CM Punk, he sucks, yada, yada, yada." Just sit back and enjoy the product, it's just Pro Wrestling. 
I opersonally have a hard time enjoying something so tasteless. Last night's RAW was the first I had watched in a VERY long time because I wanted to see King make his return. Sadly, Vince didn't let me down and proved, yet again, why I don't watch WWE anymore. Way to go Vince.
I opersonally have a hard time enjoying something so tasteless. Last night's RAW was the first I had watched in a VERY long time because I wanted to see King make his return. Sadly, Vince didn't let me down and proved, yet again, why I don't watch WWE anymore. Way to go Vince.People forget Vince isnt as horrible as think if he was really that bed would he still own the biggest wrestling company no everyone has there limits they would have walked if he was. Remember it was Vince who took time out of one of his busiest days to fly King home on his private WWE jet both Vince and king knows what needs to be done to get ratings the king would of been ok with it he even joked him self about it. True WWE can do things that is distasteful and yes this is one in my opinion but i bet my house Vince would of cleared it with king to make sure he was ok with it
I think everyone is taking this to seriously. It's pro wrestling. This kind of thing has happened in the past, is happening in the present, and you can bet will be happening in the future. Was it disrespectful? Hell yeah it was. And that's what made it so great. The fact that it got people like you talking is what they care about. It's all for show. It's not like they were seriously out to hurt Lawler's feelings. And anyone with half a brain knows that. This was just a stunt to help get Punk over as a heel and it worked perfectly. I actually applaud them for this.
my two cent opinion bout the segment-
I was shocked? Yes, I was. It was a little bit too much even for me.
It was entertainment? No. And when Heyman, a guy I love, mock an heart attack I was astonished.
It was disrespecting Lawler? No, I'm sure he agreed with it.
It works to make a "heeler heel" Cm Punk? I dont think so- lot of people like me love cm Punk because he's a top mic and a top wrestler, and he's one of the brand new guys in the last years. Trying to make him a son of b*** in this way... it works with children maybe.
In the end... the fact a lot of us have written about it means it was a very impact segment. But not that was a good idea. I don't care if was or not a Jerry idea, I'm sure he agreed, but... no. Simply, it was a bad moment for wwe. In Italy we call it "pestare una merda, to walk on a dog shit". Imho, of course.
I was shocked? Yes, I was. It was a little bit too much even for me.
It was entertainment? No. And when Heyman, a guy I love, mock an heart attack I was astonished.
It was disrespecting Lawler? No, I'm sure he agreed with it.
It works to make a "heeler heel" Cm Punk? I dont think so- lot of people like me love cm Punk because he's a top mic and a top wrestler, and he's one of the brand new guys in the last years. Trying to make him a son of b*** in this way... it works with children maybe.
In the end... the fact a lot of us have written about it means it was a very impact segment. But not that was a good idea. I don't care if was or not a Jerry idea, I'm sure he agreed, but... no. Simply, it was a bad moment for wwe. In Italy we call it "pestare una merda, to walk on a dog shit". Imho, of course.
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
To a large degree, that's actually what Chris Jericho said on Twitter. He praised Punk's work on the mic. He states that he got similar complaints when he did the alcoholic father stuff during his feud with CM Punk earlier in the year.
I still just don't see what some people are so outraged about. It seems that many are taking the stance of "they're making light and fun of people who have suffered heart attacks. Someone really close to me had a heart attack, so WWE must be making fun of him/her." The lead actor in Breaking Bad plays a meth dealer and has gotten immeasurable critical acclaim & numerous major industry awards for his performance. I had a friend overdose on meth a few years back but I'm not accusing AMC of glorifying meth and all things associated with it. Another friend of mine is also in a motorcycle club, so should I blast FX & Sons of Anarchy for their portrayal of a gun & drug running motorcycle gand just because I happen to know somebody that's part of a club?
WWE Raw is a scripted televsion show. I just hope that all the AE marks remember the outrage this segment generated the next time they start pissing and moaning about wanting the Attitude Era to come back.
BaconBits
WZ Czar of Steaks
I can't believe some of ya'll are still arguing about this.
Let it go and move on. It's no great big deal. It'll be in the annals of WWE history right there with Katie Vick and Mae Young's baby hand as far as lame angles that had people upset when they happened, but forgotten within a month or two, except when discussing another lame angle down the road.
Nobody's going to stop watching because of one crappy angle. If they did, the Attitude Era would have been a complete failure.
Let it go and move on. It's no great big deal. It'll be in the annals of WWE history right there with Katie Vick and Mae Young's baby hand as far as lame angles that had people upset when they happened, but forgotten within a month or two, except when discussing another lame angle down the road.
Nobody's going to stop watching because of one crappy angle. If they did, the Attitude Era would have been a complete failure.
BigThunder
Pre-Show Stalwart
To be honest, I'm ecstatic about this angle. Why? Because whatever you think about this situation's tastefulness, they wouldn't be doing it if Jerry wasn't medically capable of handling it. The fact that Lawler's recovered so quickly from such a serious situation -- when he could easily have been lost to us -- is a reason to celebrate.
Composition4
[jWo]
12 pages. Let me repeat that. 12 PAGES! I know that's just in our own little spot of the cosmos, but it proves(whether you like it or not)that everyone did their job and did it well Monday night. Punk and Heyman were bastards and made everybody mad. If some people turned off the TV because of it, oh well. There will be more tuning in next week.The heat was captured. IT WAS. If you(and that's the collective "you")think it wasn't then you really aren't paying much attention. This includes such revered icons as Mr. Steve Austin who seems, like many folks here on these very forums, to be letting their personal feelings for Jerry Lawler interfere with what IS good storytelling. Once again, it's time to put up or shut up, kiddies. 
You know what the best part of this is...that it was done by CM Punk and Paul Heyman, 2 internet darlings. (FYI I love Punk and Heyman 'the character' I've always dug). Admit it, if this was Triple H and Flair mocking Lawler, this place would explode.
Now, I seem to remember an angle where Owen Hart botched the piledriver on Austin, broke his neck, then bragged about it for a long time even wearing the famous "Owen 3:16/I just broke your neck". Austin could have been paralyzed and never wrestled again, but everything cleared out, he was fine, and Owen ran with that angle to garner more heat. Isn't that exactly like what Punk and Heyman did?
Punk continues to garner more heat continuing his angle of "respect" while disrespecting everyone else in sight. My fiance (casual fan) and I were watching and she wants Punk to get his head handed to him on Sunday after that segment.
Now, I seem to remember an angle where Owen Hart botched the piledriver on Austin, broke his neck, then bragged about it for a long time even wearing the famous "Owen 3:16/I just broke your neck". Austin could have been paralyzed and never wrestled again, but everything cleared out, he was fine, and Owen ran with that angle to garner more heat. Isn't that exactly like what Punk and Heyman did?
Punk continues to garner more heat continuing his angle of "respect" while disrespecting everyone else in sight. My fiance (casual fan) and I were watching and she wants Punk to get his head handed to him on Sunday after that segment.
mikekinkade
Dark Match Jobber
This is the problem with wrestling at the moment. People are debating a promo that was expected and predictable. How can you be offended by something that was predictable and expected?
I am way more worried about the fact that nobody in a weeks time is going to give a damn about this promo. Jerry Lawler has a real heart attack, and people still won't care about what Punk did in a week. They don't even attempt to swerve the fans anymore. Even casual fans probably knew Punk was going to come out and rip Lawler.
Imagine for a second they turned Lawler heel. Lawler cuts a promo about how he risked his life standing up for the WWE Universe, and how foolish it was. He then goes on about how he doesn't need the fans sympathy. Then he hints how he is going to start doing things his way, and hints involvement in the PPV.
I am way more worried about the fact that nobody in a weeks time is going to give a damn about this promo. Jerry Lawler has a real heart attack, and people still won't care about what Punk did in a week. They don't even attempt to swerve the fans anymore. Even casual fans probably knew Punk was going to come out and rip Lawler.
Imagine for a second they turned Lawler heel. Lawler cuts a promo about how he risked his life standing up for the WWE Universe, and how foolish it was. He then goes on about how he doesn't need the fans sympathy. Then he hints how he is going to start doing things his way, and hints involvement in the PPV.
Artemis Paradox
Occasional Pre-Show
Everyone knew this was going to be the result of Lawler's return. "Offensive" things happen as a result of such "tragedies." It's the wrestling business. It's what's gone on for the longest time.
Hell, this was probably Jerry's idea anyway- he wants to help build heat for heels, so he goes for it. Does it not make sense? He's well and alive, so there's really no need not to do so. The wrestling business is just that- business, and if such things produce business, then do it. End of story.
Hell, this was probably Jerry's idea anyway- he wants to help build heat for heels, so he goes for it. Does it not make sense? He's well and alive, so there's really no need not to do so. The wrestling business is just that- business, and if such things produce business, then do it. End of story.
Mr. Raisin: This is pretty much where I stand on Monday's RAW and the heart attack mockery.
Mark Madden:
"Monday’s Raw was PUTRID, shocking in its abject lack of quality and interesting moments. Raw was EXCREMENT." And. "I was co-host of Nitro during the show’s worst period. I look back at those Nitros and know they were better than Monday’s Raw. Than most episodes of Raw. Nothing done on Raw truly engages the viewer. It’s all fast-food wrestling. Sadly disposable."
Steve Austin:
"I believe in pushing the envelope in an aggressive fashion. But when a guy damn near dies at ringside, let it go. You look at all the contributions Jerry Lawler has made in this business: from a work standpoint, a promo standpoint and then as a broadcaster. I think that's pushing the envelope in the wrong direction. There's better ways to go get real heat than that."
Chris Jericho:
"I think it was pretty obvious, don’t you? I kind of expected it. Punk’s promo was awesome. It’s wrestling so you knew it would end up as an angle sooner or later. I got the same complaints when I did the alcoholic angle (earlier this year with CM Punk). It would be like being mad at "Breaking Bad" because the dad was a drug addict or something. It’s just a TV show, after all."
Lance Storm:
"Thought it was poor. Both he and Punk are capable to get real heat, no need to sink so low. Also thought it was out of character for Punk so it hurt. Punk is about Best in World and himself. Why bother joking about heart attack it goes nowhere. Interruption was okay and in character. Fake heart attack was cheap and pointless."
El Terrible: I like your example of Owen bragging about breaking Austin's neck after it was clear Austin would recover. That is very similar to this. Where I think it's a bit different though is that Owen used jabs to get over as a heel like Punk did initially so well with Lawler. Owen didn't fall to the canvas and fake a broken neck. Had he done so and successfully conveyed it in a way to engage the audience then that would be a great heel move. But I argue that faking such a severe injury wouldn't translate well with the audience unless Austin or someone came out immediately for retribution.
Composition4: This thread is 12 pages because I've wrote about 6 essays. Without me, this thread is no longer than 6 pages. So it doesn't prove that 'everyone did their job well Monday night.' It doesn't prove that SO many people hate Punk and Heyman now. It just proves there are longwinded assholes like myself out there who'll argue till their blue in the face with a bunch of you who'd make way better asshole heels. lol..If you read my 6 pages of longwindedness or what Habshateforever or HaikuHogan or many other posters were saying, you'd understand most of us thought that the entire segment was lame and they simply gave their two cents worth. Labeling those of us who were against the heart attack mocking as 'riled up marks' is pure ignorance. To think Punk and Heyman generated any real heat than with children and El Terrible's fiance is like saying a guy like Heath Slater follows his really shitty script well week in and week out. Like Slater, Punk and Heyman did what they could with what they were given and told to do by the writers. Oh and I heavily doubt 'more' will be tuning in next week either. Possibly a slight bump from a 2.85 to a 2.855 rounded up to a 2.9 if they're lucky. Strong, logical storylines, not cheap, intelligence-offensive segments, are what will lead to more of us tuning in regularly. But that won't happen until Stephanie, Triple H and (especially) Vince stop interfering in writing duties.
Composition, you are partly right on one thing though. It's time for (some) kiddies (but more importantly adults with kid-like brains) to put up or shut up.
Mark Madden:
"Monday’s Raw was PUTRID, shocking in its abject lack of quality and interesting moments. Raw was EXCREMENT." And. "I was co-host of Nitro during the show’s worst period. I look back at those Nitros and know they were better than Monday’s Raw. Than most episodes of Raw. Nothing done on Raw truly engages the viewer. It’s all fast-food wrestling. Sadly disposable."
Steve Austin:
"I believe in pushing the envelope in an aggressive fashion. But when a guy damn near dies at ringside, let it go. You look at all the contributions Jerry Lawler has made in this business: from a work standpoint, a promo standpoint and then as a broadcaster. I think that's pushing the envelope in the wrong direction. There's better ways to go get real heat than that."
Chris Jericho:
"I think it was pretty obvious, don’t you? I kind of expected it. Punk’s promo was awesome. It’s wrestling so you knew it would end up as an angle sooner or later. I got the same complaints when I did the alcoholic angle (earlier this year with CM Punk). It would be like being mad at "Breaking Bad" because the dad was a drug addict or something. It’s just a TV show, after all."
Lance Storm:
"Thought it was poor. Both he and Punk are capable to get real heat, no need to sink so low. Also thought it was out of character for Punk so it hurt. Punk is about Best in World and himself. Why bother joking about heart attack it goes nowhere. Interruption was okay and in character. Fake heart attack was cheap and pointless."
El Terrible: I like your example of Owen bragging about breaking Austin's neck after it was clear Austin would recover. That is very similar to this. Where I think it's a bit different though is that Owen used jabs to get over as a heel like Punk did initially so well with Lawler. Owen didn't fall to the canvas and fake a broken neck. Had he done so and successfully conveyed it in a way to engage the audience then that would be a great heel move. But I argue that faking such a severe injury wouldn't translate well with the audience unless Austin or someone came out immediately for retribution.
Composition4: This thread is 12 pages because I've wrote about 6 essays. Without me, this thread is no longer than 6 pages. So it doesn't prove that 'everyone did their job well Monday night.' It doesn't prove that SO many people hate Punk and Heyman now. It just proves there are longwinded assholes like myself out there who'll argue till their blue in the face with a bunch of you who'd make way better asshole heels. lol..If you read my 6 pages of longwindedness or what Habshateforever or HaikuHogan or many other posters were saying, you'd understand most of us thought that the entire segment was lame and they simply gave their two cents worth. Labeling those of us who were against the heart attack mocking as 'riled up marks' is pure ignorance. To think Punk and Heyman generated any real heat than with children and El Terrible's fiance is like saying a guy like Heath Slater follows his really shitty script well week in and week out. Like Slater, Punk and Heyman did what they could with what they were given and told to do by the writers. Oh and I heavily doubt 'more' will be tuning in next week either. Possibly a slight bump from a 2.85 to a 2.855 rounded up to a 2.9 if they're lucky. Strong, logical storylines, not cheap, intelligence-offensive segments, are what will lead to more of us tuning in regularly. But that won't happen until Stephanie, Triple H and (especially) Vince stop interfering in writing duties.
Composition, you are partly right on one thing though. It's time for (some) kiddies (but more importantly adults with kid-like brains) to put up or shut up.
I Heart Cena
Pre-Show Stalwart
The King would piledrive all you Nancies who think this angle is in "poor taste" and "classless".
GET A FUCKING LIFE. Do you think Lawler was classless and mocking neck injury victims during the Andy Kaufman angle?
He would probably laugh at all you wussies who are crying about this. He's in on the angle, he approves of it, and is probably in Vince's ear to make more must-see TV on the Road to Wrestlemania.
Again, get a life. If I were a WWE superstar, and died, I would want them to exploit it for ratings so that my buddies can earn a good livelihood. It's all entertainment, nothing more.
GET A FUCKING LIFE. Do you think Lawler was classless and mocking neck injury victims during the Andy Kaufman angle?
He would probably laugh at all you wussies who are crying about this. He's in on the angle, he approves of it, and is probably in Vince's ear to make more must-see TV on the Road to Wrestlemania.
Again, get a life. If I were a WWE superstar, and died, I would want them to exploit it for ratings so that my buddies can earn a good livelihood. It's all entertainment, nothing more.
DarkLordFett
Occasional Pre-Show
While the footage of King being worked on by medical responders was not easy to watch, I'm sure he ok'd the use of it. As to the cheap heat by Punk and Heyman, well, that's par for the course lately. Not just those two. From Vince on down, creative seems to be taking the cheap easy ways out. I thought them coming out was a bigger issue than the MI footage.
THE Great GAMMA
Pre-Show Stalwart
This is why the Attitude Era could never come back. Because every week there would be a 13 page long thread on the internet saying what happened was offensive.
Mark Madden “I was co-host of nitro during it worst period.” So what you were part of a bad show that no longer exists. WCW folded and the WWE is still around, so what’s your point? Your show sucked so bad that it got shut down. Dont even try and compare the product you were on to the current one, because your's is gone and theirs is still there.
I bet no one cared this much when Lawler poured whiskey down Jake Roberts (a reformed alcoholic at the time) throat. No one was outraged with Jericho and the WWE when he did his angle with Punk revolving around substance abuse. No one was outraged when Undertaker crucified people or attempted to violate a virgin (Stephanie McMahon....virgin....lol) in some sort of satanic ritual.
People need to stop putting their personal feelings about this segment into their argument.
You want to say that the angle was tastless?? There are more tasteless things on TV and at the movies than this.... Jersey Shore, Twilight, Sparticus, here comes honey boo boo, toddlers and tiaras. But i bet you or girlfriends love to watch that. A bunch of inbred fake tan wanna be guidos, a series that comes down to showing how stalking someone pays off and how weak minded a woman can be. A show where there is explicit violence sex and rape, and two shows exploiting kids..one of which is the lowest form of hick trash on tv. And you want to say Pro Wrestling is tasteless
If you are one of the folks complaining about this angle get off your moral high horse because chances are you let more offensive things go by in silence.
Mark Madden “I was co-host of nitro during it worst period.” So what you were part of a bad show that no longer exists. WCW folded and the WWE is still around, so what’s your point? Your show sucked so bad that it got shut down. Dont even try and compare the product you were on to the current one, because your's is gone and theirs is still there.
I bet no one cared this much when Lawler poured whiskey down Jake Roberts (a reformed alcoholic at the time) throat. No one was outraged with Jericho and the WWE when he did his angle with Punk revolving around substance abuse. No one was outraged when Undertaker crucified people or attempted to violate a virgin (Stephanie McMahon....virgin....lol) in some sort of satanic ritual.
People need to stop putting their personal feelings about this segment into their argument.
You want to say that the angle was tastless?? There are more tasteless things on TV and at the movies than this.... Jersey Shore, Twilight, Sparticus, here comes honey boo boo, toddlers and tiaras. But i bet you or girlfriends love to watch that. A bunch of inbred fake tan wanna be guidos, a series that comes down to showing how stalking someone pays off and how weak minded a woman can be. A show where there is explicit violence sex and rape, and two shows exploiting kids..one of which is the lowest form of hick trash on tv. And you want to say Pro Wrestling is tasteless
If you are one of the folks complaining about this angle get off your moral high horse because chances are you let more offensive things go by in silence.
