It didn't take long for WWE to mock Lawler.

[MrMojoRisin]

The NWO making fun of the Horsemen for about 15 minutes non stop was funny shit because of how serious the Horsemen considered themselves. A week prior they were out eating up about half an hour of airtime just to be honored. Flair, Anderson, Benoit, Malenko, Mongo and whoever were pretty notorious for either being a bit too serious or high on themselves. And the NWO promo was full of inside jabs at the group, it's leader and their legacy. Jabs that were personal that made sense. I remember thinking at the time watching it live that nobody even Bischoff consented to what was being said. Some time after that, maybe a few weeks or months, I figured that the Horsemen must have been ok with it because the angle was so great. Then, I believe after reading Flair's book years later, it turned out I was right in the beginning. I guess my whole thing is that it was a logical direction for the angle between the two super groups. It built heat and was entertaining. Nobody had to fake a heart attack or get racist or give birth to a hand. I remember watching Flair fake a heart attack after getting extremely too riled up at Bischoff a year later and it made sense. I loved it. There was a year worth of hatred between the two from the NWO/Horsemen feud. Every week there was crazy shit happening on Raw and Nitro and very few people believed it was a real heart attack. Flair had riled him up so much throughout his career and at the time his promos were getting more and more hardcore. Flair was aging. I remember maybe a month before one of my friends saying Flair was getting so crazy and old that he was eventually gonna give himself a heart attack. So faking one in the ring made sense as part of an angle. It's not like he or anyone else he was feuding with had just had a heart attack weeks before. If they had, I'm sure WCW in 1997 under the war-like circumstances with WWE could have found a way to make it more entertaining than just plain tasteless. But in PG WWE in 2012? The way Vince wants it done rather than the personalities pulling off the angle. Lame.

The thing that bothers people is that Jerry Lawler could have easily lost his life on TV 9 weeks ago. We all watched and worried we'd get the announcement before Raw ended that Lawler had passed. It was a traumatizing moment for some people, especially kids. So perhaps for those people with the mentality of children or who've had direct experience losing a loved one to a heart attack, this angle gained Punk heat. But for most of us, in this day and age, I think the heats directed at whoever scripted it (Vince/Hunter/Stephanie). So that's why the segment was executed badly, a lot of the heat is getting put on the script writer and not the personality. Go back to 1997 when the NWO roasted the Horsemen. What was said was off the cuff. No one scripted that and read it from a teleprompter. No one knew for sure beforehand what was going to be said and the personalities were given the green light to do whatever without being restrained or having it watered down. Anyway, as much as I love Heyman and Punk, I feel the whole promo didn't come off right because it wasn't the way those involved would do it their own way without the PG restrictions.

Mrmojorasin: I have no problem with what you're saying but I don't think it's about going into business for yourself. Lawler and Kaufman went into business for themselves and I'm sure it was good business. The NWO weren't into business for themselves when they chewed out the Horsemen. It was stuff that came across real, which was somewhat real, that was logical and good for overall business whether Ric Flair and Arn Anderson found it tasteless or not. Segments with Kaufman and Lawler and the NWO mocking the Horsemen were executed the way that shits suppose to be executed. Mocking Lawler's death just wasn't. Had Punk and Heyman did what they did without Vince's knowledge and without the PG rating and Lawler was either insulted or noticeably surprised..and more of us were insulted, then that would be executed well and I'd be on here making fun of those of you who'd hate that. Anyway, the fact that most of you here loved last night is proof that Punk didn't do a good enough job gaining legit heat. End of story.

So long story short... you prefer it when both sides aren't working together, and are going into business for themselves (and sorry, in wrestling when one guy isn't following the plan and doing something different, that is what they refer to as 'going into business for himself').

I'm sorry, but if Punk and Heyman went out there last night and did what they did without Vince's approval, Heyman would have been fired before the end of the show and the main event last night would have been Punk dropping the title to Zach Ryder after getting hit with 7 straight Rough Ryders right to the face (otherwise known as the Flying Face Fuck). Punk then would have been fired to end the show. That fantasy of yours, while it may have been how things went down in WCW too many times... is just a fantasy in the WWE.

Besides, 95% of what you see on TV is in fact everyone working together. 4% would be guys pulling ribs on each other, and the 1% that is pure shoot, will most times result in someone losing their job. That's carny pro wrestling.

I hardly think that the fact that people liked the angle is indicative of it not being well done. Face facts... even though there are a lot of people out there who fall for this stuff time and again, there are a lot of fans nowadays who get it, and can appreciate something like a heel doing his job to get heat... and last night, plain and simple, Punk and Heyman showed the world some old school heeling.

 

[BestInCanada20]

I'm kind of two-sided on all of this. I do agree with some that the segment was a little harsh, but what did you expect? Honestly, from the night of Jerry Lawler's heart attack up until his return last night, I already knew this was going to happen. CM Punk and Lawler have been in an angle for a while and Lawler is the reason CM Punk started his "quest" for respect. I expected to see CM Punk come out during that segment last night and immediately start mocking him. If you didn't see this coming, than you haven't been watching long enough lol. Like many people have already stated, if Lalwer was against the segment, it never would have aired. I do agree with some that the fake heart attack from Paul Heyman was a little too far, but you could tell how uncomfortable they were with it and it's not like they had a say in this at all. While I think it was a cheap way for Punk to draw heat, I think it's a good way to get everyone to move on. He's back and from this point on Punk is going to continue to use his heart attack against him and everyone else will have to except this and move on. He didn't die and I respect the man for wanting to come back, commentary (on RAW anyways) wouldn't be the same without him and his passion for the company is outstanding and is the main reason why he's one of the most respected legends in this industry.

 

[RoadWarriorBaigy]

typical iwc, moan and bitch about the product being too pg and childish then wwe do this and everyones crying and bitching that its too far. what do you want?? anyone with a brain would know lawler gave that segment 'the green light' chill out and either watch or change the channel

 

[George Steele's Barber]

George Steele's barber: How am I traumatizing you by stating again that Jerry Lawler almost died?

You're not. I'm being sarcastic. Kind of like Punk and Heyman's characters. I am actually rolling my eyes at your comments. Kind of like the appropriate repsonse to Punk and Heyman's actions from last night if you didn't enjoy the execution.

There is nothing over dramatic about re stating the facts of what happened.

HAPPENED, as in months ago. We know what happened, your rehashing is just dramatic blather at this point. The grieving process is over for normal human beings as well as the victim, Lawler. Let it go.

I know Lawler could care less now if its part of an angle or not but the fact is the man legitimately almost died on TV. He didn't, that's good, and they ran an angle mocking his death and...well a lot of us think it sucked.

You just sound silly. Welcome to professional wrestling. Most of it sucks. It's a stupid sophmoric parody of sports and life. You haven't posted for 5 months but decided to get on your high horse for this thread. What's you point? Stuff sucks all the time.

It wasn't heelish enough. It wasn't even cheap heat it was just dumb and inproper. Could have been saved for a better time.

What does that even mean? Again, most everything in WWE is cheap and sucks. It's kind of how the business works. Go pick up a classic novel if you want brilliant storytelling. WWE doesn't have time or the ability to market that. The segment was incredibly stupid and predictable. Why are people acting outraged unless they can't get over the fact that Lawler didn't die? It's a good thing and we should be able to move on and do something with it as opposed to being all pissy.

Anyway, barber, the way you speak of Lawler you sound about as cold and robotic as the wrestling personalities/robots we have these days executing Vince's orders the best they can. I get that it's weeks later and Lawler is in the clear and the whole thing can be mocked on TV for entertainment value and to make Punk more of a heel. If it works. But it didn't. It wasn't executed well. Way too many of you liked it.

So what? Why are you trying to demonize the sketch or the people who enjoyed it. It was stupid, kind of funny, and predictable. Most of us are taking in with a grain of salt because we understand that it is an attempt on entertainment, nothing more and no one got hurt by it. All the players involved took part knowing what they want to do. It has little to do with Vince, PG, scripted or any of the other nonsense you have thrown out in your arguments.

Stop making more out of this than what it is.

Anyway, man, read my previous comments before putting words in my mouth. Punk and Heyman did a good job playing heels, for you, because it takes very little to entertain you.

If you say so. What genius bits of pro wrestling entertainment stimulate you? Because wrestling is pretty much just stupid fun. A release from the day to day of life.

But for a lot of us, it left us feeling nothing. Plain and simple. It wasn't that it was tasteless because it made us want to cry. I was tasteless because it was unnecessary and left us feeling uneasy because it was awkward. Uneasy like Owen almost paralyzing Austin uneasy.

Did it leave you feeling nothing or uneasy? Stop contradicting yourself.

Owen almost paralyzing Austin and more importantly Owen's death were unscripted accidents. Last night's segment was just done to entertain. I understand if you were not entertained but let's not get too dramatic about it or you end up like one of those people that run over their husband for not voting for Mitt Romney.

 

[multiverseman.com]

Anyone else see the hypocrisy of people ripping Vince because of what happened yet wishing that he would have a heart attack and die? Yeah, me too.

Actually, if you wanna get technical about it, that's not at all hypocrisy. Being mad at him for being tasteless and wishing him death aren't at all opposed to one another. It'd have only been hypocritical if they'd said they wanted him to have a heart attack and then be mocked on another wrestling program. Just saying.

Anyway, I'd love it if people stopped using Lawler's complacence to justify what may or may not be a bad angle. A tasteless angle is a tasteless angle. Whether this is or not has nothing to do with whether or now Lawler agreed to it. If a man asks you to abuse him and you do it, it's still not ok.

 

[ilapierre]

Many posters here arguing that Punk and Heyman did their jobs, you're all missing the point. It was tasteless because it was lame. As much as you want to believe this drew Punk and Heyman heat, it didn't. You posters have no heat toward it because you know it was part of the show and the marks are mad at WWE and Vince for airing it. The heat is not being directed at Punk or Heyman. And I'm sure Heyman, Punk, Lawler and everyone else involved felt lame after the fact taking part in Vince's sick and twisted way of welcoming King back. I'm also pretty certain that McMahon wants to make Heyman look like a fool. He, Stephanie and Triple H are trying to destroy the credibility of one of the best minds in wrestling. They don't like Heyman and making him feign a heart attack is way below him. Heyman is one of the best heel mouthpieces in the business and I'm sure if he wrote his own script he'd have found a way to make his attack on Lawler much more heel like.

MrMojoRasin: I liked back in the day when wrestlers would 'go in business for themselves' and do something that might not have been consented to if known beforehand. But it's 2012. That doesn't happen anymore. That's fine. I've seen stuff that was obviously consented to beforehand..like The Rock at his rock concert trashing Cena. It was great stuff. One part of the Rock's song was kind of lame when he made fun of Cena screwing around on his wife. I thought at the time that was just thrown in there and I found it kinda corny and it was the only uncomfortable part of his performance. Cause, as far as I knew, Cena was happily married. But then a month later it comes out that Cena was cheating on his wife! Looking back, that line in the Rock's song was brilliant. Consented to or not, it appeared below the belt and therefore appropriate. When the Jericho/Punk angle, Jericho's trashing of Punk's parents and sister was vital to their feud. Consented to or not, it felt real and built real heat. That is how a wrestler gets real heat. You don't get heat trashing someone having a heart attack. The script writer or Vince gets the heat because they Oked such a lame segment. It's the same with the Oklahoma character in WCW. Ed Ferrera was scripted to make fun of JRs cerebal palsy. It didn't draw heat, it was inappropriate and lame. It reflected worse on Russo who wrote it then it did on Ferrera who simply played the part.

Rasin, last night was an example of old school heeling? You gotta be kidding me. Go to youtube and watch Randy Savage's first ever WWE match in 1985. That's how you draw heat. Go watch Piper's Pits from that era. Go watch Andre attacking Hogan or Yoko putting Taker in a casket. Go watch Papa Shango cast a spell on Warrior. Go watch the Hitman taunt Americans in 1997. Go watch Vince after the Screwjob. Go watch the NWO kill the WCW for 3 years. Go watch the ref that cost Ryback the match two weeks ago. That is how you draw real old school heat. Making fun of a 65 year old commentator who just had a heart attack and should never be in a ring means nothing. It's like the Oklahoma character all over again.

 

[ilapierre]

George Steele's Barber: It left me feeling uneasy and nothing. You know when someone is really socially awkward and you're kinda hoping for them to snap out of it because it's making you feel awkward. Last night's segment did not get me mad like it should have and left me feeling uneasy for a few seconds and then indifferent till it was over. Like an annoying commercial. I see an annoying commercial but almost immediately forget about it because I have a few minutes to pay attention to something else. The whole segment had that feel to it. Not to you obviously because you're just so cool and like being spoonfed shitty entertainment. That's cool man, that's what you like. My opinion is that Punk and Heyman could have done a better job gaining heat doing things their own way instead of following some fucking lame script and taking cheap shots at someone who recently almost lost their life. Had Heyman gone out there and dropped to the mat to start a laughing fit about Lawler's heart attack that would have drawn the exact same amount of heat/lack of it. It's just lame to attack a heart attack victim especially his first night back. Trash their religion, race, their infidelities, their weight, their looks, their inability to rise the WWE ranks. But making fun of a heart attack or stroke victim? Cancer? That's really only funny or entertaining if the heart attack or cancer is part of a script. It's kind of sick and twisted otherwise and especially if executed poorly like it was.

 

[Mitch Henessey]

This is really sad and pathetic.

I guess a lot of people forgot about the personal and heated rivalry between Punk and Lawler. For fuck's sake, Punk beat the shit out of Lawler in a cage match a while back. Punk and Lawler are old school guys. Both men are very serious about not breaking character, and "protecting the business," so if you seriously expected Punk and Lawler to shake hands or embrace in a warm, tender hugging moment when Punk's music hit, then you're just fooling yourself, and you are one delusional person.

As others mentioned, Lawler had to be okay with this, or Vince would not have given this segment the green light, not a chance. It was an entertaining segment, and Lawler actually made a joke about his "ride being here," when the ambulance rolled into the arena during Brad Maddox's entrance. This was a way for Punk to get more heat as a heel, and it worked.

Honestly, a return to an Attitude Era style of programing is the #1 complaint on these boards. A lot of you probably enjoyed or laughed at Triple H raping a corpse, Maye Young giving birth to a hand, Austin holding a gun to Vince's head, DX's antics, Shawn Michaels defiling the Canadian flag, or The Rock going on about eating poontang pie, but you lose your shit over this??? WWE gives you a small taste of edgy programming, and most of you cry bloody murder over it. Unbelievable

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Is this really such a big deal that there are 9 pages worth of posts for this topic?

Lawler doesn't care, for this reason alone no one else should either, it's not that big of a deal. If this kind of stuff really bothers you then I can only come to 1 of 2 conclusions:

1) You don't have the stomach to watch wrestling.
2) You don't have any understanding of wrestling whatsoever.

I'm not saying it was the classiest thing to do and I would even consider its in poor taste to a point but this is wrestling. One of the most tried and true ways to draw money is to make the heel so hated that the fans can't wait to finally see someone knock that heel off the mountain. At the end of the day what happened on Monday served a purpose and it got Punk more heat which is what its all about. I'm not saying that Survivor Series is gonna have mad PPV buys but this is WWE attempting to get Punk away from having people cheer for him and to just have people boo him. They want people to hate Punk therefore he does despicable things like this in order to make people hate him. My girlfriends son was a huge CM Punk fan until last night, this morning he was even telling me how low that was of CM Punk to do such a thing. The fact that so many of you are upset about this just goes to show that the WWE did EXACTLY what they were trying to accomplish. In that regard well done Vince, well done indeed.

 

[JBK2008]

Vince is soo out of touch with the fans these days, and it showed last night on Raw. You'd think with all the deaths in pro wrestling, he'd ya know NOT joke about Jerry's REAL LIFE heart attack?!?

Jerry may have ok'd it, but the look on Punk and Heymans faces said it all. Pure disgust and the crowd wasn't caring for it too much either. Cheap heat is always the lazy route, but this was down right low.

 

[SPARTANBOY03]

I am 28 years old, I have been watching wrestling since I was 4 years old in 1988 . What I saw Last Night On Raw was tasteless , unfair, rude, embarasing , shocking ,appalling and a complete shame . Jerry Lawler is a Legend in the wrestling world . I would so blame MR. Punk and MR. Heyman if Jerry had died the night of the heart attack . I am embarased to even call myself a wrestling fan due to what I saw Last Night . I really hope MR. Punk and MR. Heyman burn in hell for what they pulled last night .

Hate me all you wrestling marks and Haters IDC .

I respect MR. Lawler and what he has done for the wrestling world .

 

[ilapierre]

Deaner and Terry: What do you mean so many people are upset? Most of the fans posting on these 9 pages are ridiculing the 6 or 7 child or female posters who are offended with the segment last night and actually angry at the entertainers involved rather than who wrote the god awful script. And most of these knitpickers are writing about three lines and are borderline spammers.

I've been watching wrestling since the mid80s. I lived through the Attitude eras. I have a great understanding of the world of wrestling and a stomach to tolerate anything. I watched my mother die in my arms to cancer when I was 19. So I think I can handle fake PG wrestling and really awkward wrestling segments. Deaner, you're forgetting a third conclusion that some of us who didn't like the mocking actually didn't care, like Lawler, because it left us indifferent or uneasy. Uneasy doesn't mean we were mad at the heels or the writers. It means we felt awkward because it didn't draw real heat. It just came across stupid and out of place. We all know the real CM Punk and Paul Heyman wouldn't do that. If Heyman and Punk wouldn't really do that in real life and it's based on something that really happened and could have been fatal, then it defies logic and is stupid. If Owen survived his fall 13 years ago, and WWE mocked the fall with a stunt a few weeks later would that be entertainment value? Would that draw real heat? Or would that just come across as written and oked by a sick and twisted individual?? You PG fans don't get that though, you don't get to enjoy quality wrestling entertainment anymore and go nuts when something really sick and twisted finally happens. The mocking probably only happened cause Vince was so mad about Linda not getting into the Senate. It was probably Vince's way of saying "fuck the Senate and fuck you America, I'll spend another $90 million to get Linda in next time and I ain't ever giving 65 year olds like Lawler or Piper or anybody any health benefits or retirement packages. I'll just have my company's top star and top mind make a mockery of themselves on national TV ridiculing someone who represents all the wrestlers past and present who put their bodies on the line day in and day to make me rich." Don't you guys get it? Guys like Lawler entertain crowds for decades abusing their bodies to the max to make Vince all that money so he can finance Linda's Senate run. If he ever gets her elected, he gets her into a position where she can influence statutes that would guarantee no wrestler ever gets health benefits in the future. That's the irony of Punk and Heyman ridiculing Lawler. And what makes it poorly executed is that no one believes Punk and Heyman came up with this. This is only something someone as sick and twisted as Vince McMahon would come up with. Lawler was ok with it, fine, and a lot of us who didn't like it were ok with it too. I was ok with Oklahoma making a mockery of JR's cerebal palsy. It was boring though and rubbed most fans the wrong way. It turned us off, it didn't engage us one way or the other. JR could have been fine with the whole angle too but that doesn't mean it won't come across to the rest of us as tasteless or poorly executed. Well same goes for mocking Lawler's heart attack.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I could understand the outrage if WWE had done this and Jerry Lawler had actually died. I don't just mean his heart stopping for a brief period of time, I mean if he'd actually 100% passed away and was no longer in this world. But Lawler didn't die. He's alive, he's healthy and he's fit. All while Lawler was out recovering, WWE did nothing but sing his praises on the air and wish him a speedy recovery.

As others have pointed out, last night's segment was meant to generate buzz and it did exactly that. I don't think any single WWE segment has generated this much controversy in years, possibly since the Attitude Era itself.

I read a comment from a poster saying that they didn't find the segment funny at all. Nobody found it funny because it wasn't meant to be funny. It was meant to generate sympathy for Lawler, fan appreciation for Mic Foley and heat on CM Punk. Personally, I think this is a perfect example of internet fans being "too smart" for their own good. If this was 12-15 years ago, I'd be willing to bet most would be screaming about how ingenious and well done last night's segment was.

My grandmother passed away of a heart attack when I was 9 years old. WWE's segment last night didn't offend me anymore than of the movies or television shows I've seen in my life that've depicted someone having a heart attack or verbally assaulting someone that's had a heart attack or is recovered from a heart attack.

I'm not at all surprised by the reaction some have had to it. I fully expected it. While I was watching the segment, I remember thinking that the internet was going to blow up with this. I remember thinking that internet fans were going to rant & rave and so were wrestling journalists despite how often many of them have been clamoring for such Attitude Era style content for years. It wasn't at all a surprise in this ultra politically correct era we live in today. These days, you can't blow your nose in public without offending somebody. If someone sneezes and you say "God bless you", odds are you're going to offend someone within ear shot because you said the word God out loud & in public.

 

[ITrippedTheShockmaster]

While I personally believe they shouldn't have had Punk and Heyman do what they did, I have no problem with the segment. My father had a heart attack when I was 11 years old. Thankfully, he also survived his, but I was not offended by the segment whatsoever.

It didn't really bother me that Heyman did the whole "fake heart attack" bit. Unless you're young or pretty naive, you could tell that Heyman was faking. The fact that Punk put up the "X" and no one came running out of the back immediately was pretty telling (I actually expected them to, even though I knew it was a work). Also, Punk didn't really sell it well and was pretty cheesy about the whole thing. Kids may have thought something was wrong, or even those in the arena, but those watching on TV should have been able to notice early on that it wasn't an actual heart attack. C'mon, man.

Also, as was said earlier, I sincerely doubt the bit wouldn't have been done if Lawler hadn't OK'd it. He seems to be in good spirits after everything he's been through, so much that he's jumping right back into his angle with Punk (albeit in a understandably non-physical role). WWE has documented Lawler since the heart attack, even showing the package before Punk came out. Lawler has a ton of respect backstage, but he also understands the storytelling part of the business, so I doubt Vince would have forced him to go through with the segment. The fact that he's even back on the job right now is pretty amazing.

Could what Punk and Heyman did be seen as cheap heat and something being done in poor taste? Yes. But, honestly, people just need to calm down. Everyone gets so offended by things nowadays. Maybe the segment didn't fit the PG style they've been catering to lately, but don't get so bent out of shape about it. Jeez.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Many posters here arguing that Punk and Heyman did their jobs, you're all missing the point. It was tasteless because it was lame. As much as you want to believe this drew Punk and Heyman heat, it didn't. You posters have no heat toward it because you know it was part of the show and the marks are mad at WWE and Vince for airing it. The heat is not being directed at Punk or Heyman. And I'm sure Heyman, Punk, Lawler and everyone else involved felt lame after the fact taking part in Vince's sick and twisted way of welcoming King back. I'm also pretty certain that McMahon wants to make Heyman look like a fool. He, Stephanie and Triple H are trying to destroy the credibility of one of the best minds in wrestling. They don't like Heyman and making him feign a heart attack is way below him. Heyman is one of the best heel mouthpieces in the business and I'm sure if he wrote his own script he'd have found a way to make his attack on Lawler much more heel like.

MrMojoRasin: I liked back in the day when wrestlers would 'go in business for themselves' and do something that might not have been consented to if known beforehand. But it's 2012. That doesn't happen anymore. That's fine. I've seen stuff that was obviously consented to beforehand..like The Rock at his rock concert trashing Cena. It was great stuff. One part of the Rock's song was kind of lame when he made fun of Cena screwing around on his wife. I thought at the time that was just thrown in there and I found it kinda corny and it was the only uncomfortable part of his performance. Cause, as far as I knew, Cena was happily married. But then a month later it comes out that Cena was cheating on his wife! Looking back, that line in the Rock's song was brilliant. Consented to or not, it appeared below the belt and therefore appropriate. When the Jericho/Punk angle, Jericho's trashing of Punk's parents and sister was vital to their feud. Consented to or not, it felt real and built real heat. That is how a wrestler gets real heat. You don't get heat trashing someone having a heart attack. The script writer or Vince gets the heat because they Oked such a lame segment. It's the same with the Oklahoma character in WCW. Ed Ferrera was scripted to make fun of JRs cerebal palsy. It didn't draw heat, it was inappropriate and lame. It reflected worse on Russo who wrote it then it did on Ferrera who simply played the part.

Rasin, last night was an example of old school heeling? You gotta be kidding me. Go to youtube and watch Randy Savage's first ever WWE match in 1985. That's how you draw heat. Go watch Piper's Pits from that era. Go watch Andre attacking Hogan or Yoko putting Taker in a casket. Go watch Papa Shango cast a spell on Warrior. Go watch the Hitman taunt Americans in 1997. Go watch Vince after the Screwjob. Go watch the NWO kill the WCW for 3 years. Go watch the ref that cost Ryback the match two weeks ago. That is how you draw real old school heat. Making fun of a 65 year old commentator who just had a heart attack and should never be in a ring means nothing. It's like the Oklahoma character all over again.

Sorry... you lost me when you used Papa Shango casting a spell on the Ultimate Warrior as one of your examples of old school heeling.

I'm a little confused though. In your favourite NWO skit where they mocked the Horsemen... one of the controversial things about it was the fact that the segment they mocked, was Arn Anderson giving a sincere, heartfelt, retirement speech. Kind of like how Heyman mocked Lawlers very real, very serious, heart attack last night. Is the only reason you love one 15 years later, and are disgusted by another 15 hours later the fact that Anderson wasn't aware that Nash was going to do what he did, whereas Lawler gave his blessing for Heyman to do what he did? Would it have been better if Lawler was blindsided, and got so disgusted that he immediately walked out on the show?

Also I'm not sure why you're bashing Oklahoma. JR never approved that stuff either. It should be right up your alley.

Sorry they didn't have any insider jokes last night for you to get off on. They just had a segment where their top heel came out and mocked a serious situation to get heat. It's happened countless times in the past. It's being a heel. You don't like it. Great. They did their job and you got worked. It should feel good to know that after all these years, they can still get you.

 

[ilapierre]

Jackhammer: I think the reason it generated so much buzz is because it isn't something you see every day on bland PG WWE TV. If something like this happened in the Attitude Era, none of us would find this ingenious. Way more tasteless stuff was happening and would of overshadowed such a bland and pointless segment. I just watched the whole thing again a few minutes ago and I just shake my head and roll my eyes. The desired effect just isn't there. It was suppose to be clever and cute, perhaps funny's not the right word. The evil heels generating evil heel hate. But that's not what happened. It was one minute of fans cringing, looking at each and thinking 'has this what the WWE has come to'. This is so below Punk and Heyman. Only Vince McMahon could think this would make for good TV or generate these two real heat.

And again, a lot of us posters are posting about why we didn't like the segment because of the ignorance of those who liked the segment and don't understand the argument against it. We're not posting with rage because we're so angry with Punk or Heyman. Only the kids and politically correct women of the world do shit like that.

 

[ilapierre]

MrMojoRisin: I used the Papa Shango/Warrior segment to show just how bad last night's segment was. I also used the heel ref that cost Ryback the title a few weeks ago as another example of just how downright stupid it is to actually believe Punk and Heyman are getting heat from anyone besides kids and women.

As for the NWO mocking the Horsemen, which is one of my favourite 40 or 50 moments in wrestling, I'll make sense of that for you. Yeah it was similar as they were honouring Lawler last night. I was digging the whole segment when Punk told Lawler not to croak before his big match. That to me made sense. But the way Heyman went about feigning a heart attack and the way Punk tried to sell it like a heel made us cringe. It was stupid. When the NWO mocked the Horsemen, it wasn't so sad we all had to look away. It was hilarious and the stuff being said was personal and struck a nerve with Flair and company. What part of what I'm saying is so hard to understand?? Some of you posters..

 

[hatehabsforever]

I can't believe I'm actually in disagreement with Brain, Mitch, Jack and deaner, all in the same thread, but there you have it.

Look, all I am saying is that the segment was in extremely poor taste. Was I absolutely outraged and appalled by it? No. Did it compell me to change the station or to turn the television off, no it did not. Will I boycott the current product and stop watching the WWE in disgust, not a chance. I'm sure I'll be parked in front of my television set again next Monday night.

Like many of you, I have been watching wrestling a long time, so I think I understand how things are. That doesn't mean, though, that I have to like everything I see and accept what I find distasteful to be OK. I don't care that similar things, or even worse things, have happened in the past; that doesn't give WWE a free pass to replicate their errors. Katie Vick does not give the WWE a carte blanche to do whatever the heck they please, and for me to find it in good taste. And frankly, I don't really care if Jerry Lawler was OK with it, hell I don't care if the entire thing was his idea. That doesn't make the whole scene any more tasteful.

I understand heel heat, and I think a professional wrestler with the mic skills of CM Punk could have generated plenty of it without Heyman's re-enactment of the heart attack. I had absolutely no problem whatsoever with the promo that Punk cut last night, it was masterful as per usual, and should have been sufficient to accomplish the desired goal. They didn't have to have a phony heart attack, phony CPR, etc., to achieve their results. I'm all for edgier. I'm all for pushing the boundaries. But sometimes, there should be a line which should not be crossed and for me, I think the WWE crossed it last night, at least for me.

As I said, no outrage, no boycott, no cries from a borderline spammer who is either a child or a female. Just a simple perspective from someone who found Heyman's antics classless and unnecessary.

Someone who has had a heart attack is by default susceptible to a similar episode. So heaven forbid, what if Lawler has further ill effects and isn't so fortunate next time? How entertaining will things be then? Will the heat generation be worth the rightful and inevitable fallout that will accompany it? What's next, a wrestler coming to ringside to pay tribute to Benoit, with a Bowflex in the ring with him, just to generate heel heat and provide an edgier product? At what point is the line drawn between acceptable entertainment and a total lack of class?

 

[ilapierre]

MrMojoRisin: I used the Papa Shango/Warrior segment to show just how bad last night's segment was. I also used the heel ref that cost Ryback the title a few weeks ago as another example of just how downright stupid it is to actually believe Punk and Heyman are getting heat from anyone besides kids and women.

As for the NWO mocking the Horsemen, which is one of my favourite 40 or 50 moments in wrestling, I'll make sense of that for you. Yeah it was similar as they were honouring Lawler last night. I was digging the whole segment when Punk told Lawler not to croak before his big match. That to me made sense. But the way Heyman went about feigning a heart attack and the way Punk tried to sell it like a heel made me and a lot of others cringe. We were like 'really'? That's all you could come up with? You think that makes you a heel? It'd be the same if somebody trying to bully a 400 pounder came over to the 400 pounder and called them fat and started to eat food uncontrollably like some glutton. That bully would be lame and the scene he'd create would be awkward. It wouldn't make him look mean, it would make him look like an even bigger target to ridicule for being so lame. Well that's how this all makes Punk and Heyman look. Another case: Remember when Heath Slater interrupted Wendi Richter and Cyndi Lauper a few months ago. Slater was there to gain heat but the whole segment was a trainwreck because Slater just flat out sucks. His whole heel performance wasn't heel it was just embarrassing. Whoever wrote his script doesn't know a thing about drawing heat. Just look at the crowd reaction to Slater. There was nothing heel about what he was doing. It was stupid and pointless just like Heyman feigning a heart attack was. There was NO CROWD REACTION. When the NWO mocked the Horsemen, it wasn't so sad we all had to look away and feel embarrassed for Nash, Henning and 6Pac. It was hilarious, the crowd was going nuts and the stuff being said was personal and struck a nerve with Flair and company. What part of what I'm saying about the Heyman part of the segment sucking ass is so hard to understand?? It's because some of you are massive idiots that threads like these go on and on and on...lol..

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Jackhammer: I think the reason it generated so much buzz is because it isn't something you see every day on bland PG WWE TV. If something like this happened in the Attitude Era, none of us would find this ingenious. Way more tasteless stuff was happening and would of overshadowed such a bland and pointless segment. I just watched the whole thing again a few minutes ago and I just shake my head and roll my eyes. The desired effect just isn't there. It was suppose to be clever and cute, perhaps funny's not the right word. The evil heels generating evil heel hate. But that's not what happened. It was one minute of fans cringing, looking at each and thinking 'has this what the WWE has come to'. This is so below Punk and Heyman. Only Vince McMahon could think this would make for good TV or generate these two real heat.

And again, a lot of us posters are posting about why we didn't like the segment because of the ignorance of those who liked the segment and don't understand the argument against it. We're not posting with rage because we're so angry with Punk or Heyman. Only the kids and politically correct women of the world do shit like that.

This post of 100% bullshit. I'm sorry but it is, it honestly and truly is. I didn't hear or see fans cringing at the segment last night, I saw them cheering babyfaces and booing heels. You're taking your feelings on the segment and expanding/exaggerating them to make it seem like all those fans watching at home and in attendance share your view. If they were even remotely as offended as you seem to be, they would've gotten up and left the arena or viewers would've switched the channel in record numbers. Neither one happened.

As for this being like an Attitude Era segment, well I guess it doesn't really compare to a man getting his penis cut off with a samurai sword or a 70+ year old woman giving birth to a hand. You know, quality television that fans were eating up back in the late 90s.

Furthermore your "Only the kids and politically correct women of the world do shit like that." is beyond ridiculous. I don't know how often you come to these boards but if you spend anytime here, you'll notice that there generally aren't that many kids or women here. That statement in and of itself sounds pretty damn condescending, not to mention a tad chauvinistic. Pretty much all the griping comes from adult males, which comprise the vast majority of the pro wrestling audience. I see no real argument against this segment, only people who've tried to personalize a segment on a pro wrestling show and have twisted it to where it's almost like a personal attack on them or loved ones.

If Raw about half of Raw's audience disappears next week, then maybe the "It was one minute of fans cringing, looking at each and thinking 'has this what the WWE has come to'" statement will be more than just a massive example of hyperbole.

 

[Slash-LN]

I could understand the outrage if WWE had done this and Jerry Lawler had actually died. I don't just mean his heart stopping for a brief period of time, I mean if he'd actually 100% passed away and was no longer in this world. But Lawler didn't die. He's alive, he's healthy and he's fit. All while Lawler was out recovering, WWE did nothing but sing his praises on the air and wish him a speedy recovery.

As others have pointed out, last night's segment was meant to generate buzz and it did exactly that. I don't think any single WWE segment has generated this much controversy in years, possibly since the Attitude Era itself.

I read a comment from a poster saying that they didn't find the segment funny at all. Nobody found it funny because it wasn't meant to be funny. It was meant to generate sympathy for Lawler, fan appreciation for Mic Foley and heat on CM Punk. Personally, I think this is a perfect example of internet fans being "too smart" for their own good. If this was 12-15 years ago, I'd be willing to bet most would be screaming about how ingenious and well done last night's segment was.

My grandmother passed away of a heart attack when I was 9 years old. WWE's segment last night didn't offend me anymore than of the movies or television shows I've seen in my life that've depicted someone having a heart attack or verbally assaulting someone that's had a heart attack or is recovered from a heart attack.

I'm not at all surprised by the reaction some have had to it. I fully expected it. While I was watching the segment, I remember thinking that the internet was going to blow up with this. I remember thinking that internet fans were going to rant & rave and so were wrestling journalists despite how often many of them have been clamoring for such Attitude Era style content for years. It wasn't at all a surprise in this ultra politically correct era we live in today. These days, you can't blow your nose in public without offending somebody. If someone sneezes and you say "God bless you", odds are you're going to offend someone within ear shot because you said the word God out loud & in public.

AW's Kobe joke generated a lot of buzz and was featured on ESPN and TMZ amongst others. There's no way you can't say that didn't generate a huge buzz.

As far as my opinion on the topic. Knowing how the wrestling business works and how things are done everyone who pays attention should have expected Punk to come out and mock Lawler. I was watching the segment and just waiting for Punk and Heyman to come out and "ruin" the moment. As soon as Heyman turned and kind of coughed I knew what was coming. I didn't think twice about it. I'm one of the people who has had a family member have a heart attack. (My dad he quit breathing at one point but he didn't die.) Honestly I wasn't shocked or appalled. If this was the Attitude Era people wouldn't even be upset. This is the kind of thing they regularly did. As many others said Jerry probably gave his blessing. He's a wrestler through and through and when he was a heel he probably would have done the same thing.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Deaner and Terry: What do you mean so many people are upset? Most of the fans posting on these 9 pages are ridiculing the 6 or 7 child or female posters who are offended with the segment last night and actually angry at the entertainers involved rather than who wrote the god awful script. And most of these knitpickers are writing about three lines and are borderline spammers.

I've been watching wrestling since the mid80s. I lived through the Attitude eras. I have a great understanding of the world of wrestling and a stomach to tolerate anything. I watched my mother die in my arms to cancer when I was 19. So I think I can handle fake PG wrestling and really awkward wrestling segments. Deaner, you're forgetting a third conclusion that some of us who didn't like the mocking actually didn't care, like Lawler, because it left us indifferent or uneasy. Uneasy doesn't mean we were mad at the heels or the writers. It means we felt awkward because it didn't draw real heat. It just came across stupid and out of place. We all know the real CM Punk and Paul Heyman wouldn't do that. If Heyman and Punk wouldn't really do that in real life and it's based on something that really happened and could have been fatal, then it defies logic and is stupid. If Owen survived his fall 13 years ago, and WWE mocked the fall with a stunt a few weeks later would that be entertainment value? Would that draw real heat? Or would that just come across as written and oked by a sick and twisted individual?? You PG fans don't get that though, you don't get to enjoy quality wrestling entertainment anymore and go nuts when something really sick and twisted finally happens. The mocking probably only happened cause Vince was so mad about Linda not getting into the Senate. It was probably Vince's way of saying "fuck the Senate and fuck you America, I'll spend another $90 million to get Linda in next time and I ain't ever giving 65 year olds like Lawler or Piper or anybody any health benefits or retirement packages. I'll just have my company's top star and top mind make a mockery of themselves on national TV ridiculing someone who represents all the wrestlers past and present who put their bodies on the line day in and day to make me rich." Don't you guys get it? Guys like Lawler entertain crowds for decades abusing their bodies to the max to make Vince all that money so he can finance Linda's Senate run. If he ever gets her elected, he gets her into a position where she can influence statutes that would guarantee no wrestler ever gets health benefits in the future. That's the irony of Punk and Heyman ridiculing Lawler. And what makes it poorly executed is that no one believes Punk and Heyman came up with this. This is only something someone as sick and twisted as Vince McMahon would come up with. Lawler was ok with it, fine, and a lot of us who didn't like it were ok with it too. I was ok with Oklahoma making a mockery of JR's cerebal palsy. It was boring though and rubbed most fans the wrong way. It turned us off, it didn't engage us one way or the other. JR could have been fine with the whole angle too but that doesn't mean it won't come across to the rest of us as tasteless or poorly executed. Well same goes for mocking Lawler's heart attack.

If you really think I'm satisfied with todays product and that I'm a PG fan then you really don't know me at all. I have forgotten more about wrestling than most will know it 10 lifetimes and I know what works and what doesn't work, for the majority of fans yesterday the WWE accomplished what they wanted to.

I'm not gonna get into what era is better because in comparison to wrestling era's of the past this for me is one of the worst era's for a number of reasons but that's not what this conversation is about, if you wish to have that conversation make a thread about it and I will gladly discuss it with you there. Hell, I even said I thought it was in poor taste but I will say it served the purpose it was meant to. If WWE and Vince really bother you that much then why on earth are you on these boards and why do you watch RAW? Seriously I would like to know because if you hate the PG era so much why watch it? Why not buy some Hogan DVD's and watch those instead? I know I do for the most part. There are 2 big reasons I watch WWE:

1) I only watch it when there is nothing else on and I feel like vegging out
2) My gf's kid loves today's product. I'm not a huge fan of the PG era but I do love wrestling so I will watch Raw with him and buy the PPV's for him. I didn't buy 1 PPV from Wrestlemania 21 to NOC 2011 and that was the first PPV that aired when I moved in with my gf. I watched maybe 6 Raws in that time frame because I didn't like the product as much.

I think there are issues with WWE today, I'm not denying that but I will say that today's product isn't catered to us and I've learned to accept that. If they can get it back to consistently good standards (in my view anyway) I will be all over wrestling again. With that said some things entertain me, most do not. As for Heyman faking a heart attack and CM Punk doing his over acting I didn't think it was gold by any means, but I look to my left and I see my gf's kid starting to hate his favorite wrestler, I look to my right and see my gf going off on Punk for being a "douche", I look at what they are doing on the TV and realize that what they did was smart, not because the segment was gold, not because it was overly entertaining but because it got people to hate Punk more, it accomplished their goal.

Now lets say Owen didn't die, lets say everything happened the way it did but somehow in 2 months he was fully healed. It would be a bad idea to make fun of it because the accident was negligence on the part of certain people that made it happen, not to mention that mocking that wouldn't serve much purpose. In that case it would be "you almost killed a person so now you make fun of the fact you almost killed a person? That's messed up". In Lawler's case its more like "Lawler had a heart attack on air and it gave Lawler tons of sympathy and fan support. Lawler was feuding with Punk before this heart attack so lets get some heat on Punk by having him be a dick to Lawler and progress the feud accordingly. Let's strike the iron while its hot". One makes sense and the other doesn't.

It's not about if you like the segment, things like this are done for cause and effect. You don't have to enjoy it to know that it worked.

 

[Natural Selection]

I am seriously amazed so many people are upset about the segment. It didn't go too far, it wasn't tasteless and nobody was shaking their heads and cringing. As Brain said earlier Jerry Lawler is a 40 year pro and I wouldn't be surprised if it was his idea.

This segment worked if for no other reason then people are talking about it. I think the audience took it for what it was and reacted accordingly. Now the IWC needs to do the same. If your really that bothered by it then do what they want you to do and boo CM Punk a little louder.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Learn to QUOTE. I am doing this on a Crapberry Bold, so I don't want you to give me any excuses that you can't do it. If you want to have a discussion, quoting others is far better way to go about it than just stating a name and then spewing nonsense.

George Steele's Barber: It left me feeling uneasy and nothing.

Not to start a philosophical existential argument here but nothing is nothing and uneasy is something.

You know when someone is really socially awkward and you're kinda hoping for them to snap out of it because it's making you feel awkward. Last night's segment did not get me mad like it should have and left me feeling uneasy for a few seconds and then indifferent till it was over. Like an annoying commercial. I see an annoying commercial but almost immediately forget about it because I have a few minutes to pay attention to something else. The whole segment had that feel to it.

Yet you can't forget this. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it is because you are a hopeless Punk and Heyman mark. You have this opinion that they are better than the WWE and that they are just victim to HHH, Steph and Vince.

Am I on to something here? What makes you think this? ECW? Summer of Punk? Pipe bomb?

Not to you obviously because you're just so cool and like being spoonfed shitty entertainment.

This is why it would help if you would QUOTE others. You could easily see that I said the segment was stupid, kind of funny, and predictable.

That's cool man, that's what you like. My opinion is that Punk and Heyman could have done a better job gaining heat doing things their own way instead of following some fucking lame script and taking cheap shots at someone who recently almost lost their life.

How do you know any of this? Do you really believe what you're saying? Do you really believe the guy who ran ECW in to the ground is such a creative genius that he would have come up with something so entertaining and perfect ratings would shoot through the roof and everyone would buy SS just so they could see Cena and Ryback kill Punk? Give me a break. We are in a world where the smarks try to show up to ruin every show. Vince, Heyman and Punk are all forced to play up these characters that are not allowed to really entertain out of fear the stupid smarks and marks that love them cheering on their every word.

Had Heyman gone out there and dropped to the mat to start a laughing fit about Lawler's heart attack that would have drawn the exact same amount of heat/lack of it. It's just lame to attack a heart attack victim especially his first night back. Trash their religion, race, their infidelities, their weight, their looks, their inability to rise the WWE ranks. But making fun of a heart attack or stroke victim? Cancer? That's really only funny or entertaining if the heart attack or cancer is part of a script. It's kind of sick and twisted otherwise and especially if executed poorly like it was.

Wrestling is scripted, fake and lame. All heat is cheap. This segment stuck to the model. You can stop making a big deal out of it.


Are you just trying to raise your post count?

 

[ilapierre]

Jackhammer: You have a right to think my post is 100 percent bullshit. If you actually found Heyman entertaining then obviously you've lost touch with reality and wouldn't understand a word I'm saying. So just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean shit.

Again, many of us weren't offended by the segment like some of you obsessed Punk and Heyman marks want to believe. We didn't find it a great heel performance. You can see the poor crowd reaction if you watch it on youtube like I just did.

If I'm offended about anything, it's that some of you who can't make sense of what I've been saying. I'm definitely not offended or the least bit interested in a poor attempt to get the crowd against CM Punk. If anything, it appears the sad stunt actually makes Punk more of a fan favourite since most of you seem to think it was just so great.

My kids and women statement? Yeah, I said there was about 5 or 6 posts here from fans angry with Punk and Heyman rather than with WWE in general. 5 or 6 out of what 150 posts? Might not be many women and kids on here but that doesn't mean 5 or 6 posts weren't from women or kids Mr Smartypants. Nothing chauvinistic about pointing out who gets upset with the politically incorrect stuff. And I heavily doubt Raw's audience will ever disappear. Vince McMahon could come out and shoot a 5 year old in the head and the audience would still be there. My statement of one minute of cringing is not a massive example of hyperbole. It's how a lot of people with any taste in storytelling feel.