Is Wilpon Wrestling group "they"?

[shattered dreams]

So I have been obsessing about "they" and where this BFG storyline is headed. It is just a fun time to be a TNA fan with some exciting recent angles. What I eventually came up with surprised me. For those somewhat unfamiliar with this Wilpon Wrestling group story, it is basically this shadow organization with backing from a Wilpon out of NY that there is as much disinformation as there is moderately confirmed information out there about. Some of the things we have heard are signed someone "big" from TNA, signed a lot of guys that used to be names, are using a board of some kind for something, the backing from a Wilpon (same family that is involved with mets), starting up this fall in florida, some stuff about reality show on aging wrestlers leading into the beginning and other stuff. Among the many odd things about this story is that no one really seems to understand what is going on and there is a lot of chatter about these strong non-disclosure agreements signed with everyone and that the one thing never mentioned that would seem to fit is a national tv deal.

So I got to thinking after we are starting to see some possible evidence of elaborate works in the wrestling media involving TNA storylines if this could be what TNA is working to. Hulk Hogan heading off to meetings in New York. Jeff jarrett mentioning non-disclosure agreement ending his tweets with hints about a big announcement. EB ties to reality type programming, especially tied to wrestling. Waltman being one of the guys that is basically confirmed in and he says he is on this board, then Nash hints we might be seeing him again sooner than later. A lot of the other names have ties to WCW and/or TNA in the past. Being in Florida and the potential to be a "rival" to TNA. The potential for Abyss to be the guy they signed and this is why he is terrorizing top guys in TNA. The smoke and mirrors behind the scenes where they can convince TNA to destroy itself distractedly infighting while the new rival company puts a hurt on them. Maybe Angle wins the title and takes it with him to the rival in a superswerve. Or is it EB and Hogan orchestrating the infighting and the wolfpac is going to be this "board"? EB as special ref retires kurt angle in "screwjob" at an inopportune time for TNA. It just seems unlikely that a company would be able to keep everyone quiet about such a huge launch if they had the necessary infrastructure to run such a big company. But if they only needed wrestlers and already had other infastructure it could be done. That plus TNAs national TV deal seem interesting coincidences.

So am I crazy or is there something here? If this came remotely true I think it would be groundbreaking about the way stories are told in wrestling. Then again I just might be dreaming of an excessively elaborate for wrestling idea like I have a tendency to do.

 

[Tougie]

That is a hell of an idea, and I honestly never would have considered it. I figured "They" was just a figment of Abyss's imagination. (Abysses? However you spell it). But this would be a huge move for TNA. Lets face it TNA wont get anywhere near WWE in the next 5 years, so instead of trying to compete with WWE, they create their own rival company. Certainly unprecedented and I would defintely watch every week anticipating to see what would happen next. Seeing who would jump from TNA.

Could you be dreaming way outside the box? Yes, but its not like TNA creative is doing that now. Hopefully they see this thread.

 

[brighamosity]

Honestly I'm not even sure what you're getting at. Are you suggesting that this Wilpon Wrestling Group is trying to buy out all their contracts or something? That they will have an alliance? I personally won't give this Wilpon group a second thought until they get some credibility. I fell for that back in 2002 when there was this WXW group (I don't remember the name, but it was around the same time TNA debuted, maybe a little earlier.) and it had a bunch of the ex-WCW guys. I want to say even Hogan may have been involved with it. But anyway, it didn't go anywhere. So now I don't take any of these groups seriously until they get at least a tv deal. And by that, I mean where I can actually watch it. I don't even pay any attention to ROH.

 

[Blush]

This concept also popped into my head while brainstorming where this could all be going. I was also considering something to do with B.G. James (His promo's denouncing Vince/WWE were brilliant) and some others, but having this new money backer/partner/alliance entering to upgrade TNA is much more appealing. When Jerrett posted those pictures on his twitter, I was wondering if they were going to a new location/building. They'd definitely need a bigger budget for that.

All of this is supposedly coming out in a month or two (?), so I'll cross my fingers that it's a complete expansion for the betterment of TNA.

I'm also intrigued with the current storyline mixed with reality. I was also pondering if it was all a work a few weeks ago while re-watching the Rise and Fall of ECW. I was telling a friend that I had a complete revelation while watching it in comparison to TNA, and all of the pieces were beginning to fit into place. TNA's placement was all coming together and all of the horrible craziness was on purpose. (Other than unintentional awfulness)

Either that or I was delusional from lack of sleep and being over worked..

 

[Chadmw]

Unfortunately I think "they" is going to turn out to be a group consisting of Sting, Kevin Nash and maybe a few others that believe Hogan and Bischoff are bad for TNA.

Think about it, who did Sting basically single out with the whole "Deception" thing, RVD, now "They" had Abyss go after and take out RVD. My guess is the next person Abyss goes after is Jeff Jarrett who has been siding with Hogan and Bischoff

 

[goldbergiswrestling]

I dont know if I fully understood what ur thinking behind this was but if its what I think then this is an insane idea, however unlikely it is it would be awesome. imagine 2 seperate companies owned by 2 seperate companies withe 2 seperate financial backers working together but in their own way to be mutual beneficial while kayfabe rivalry. That would be what the brand seperation was missing, you knew in the end that it was the same company the same feel to the shows. but if the wilpon group starts a new show a new company and organization run by Paul Heyman backed by Wilpon that works together with TNA run by hogan/bischoff backed by Dixie Carter it will be something completely new and I would be interested to see how it plays out.

 

[naimliss]

I like your creativity but I think you're reading into this way too much. I don't really know exactly where you were going with this either but I must say I know for a fact this won't happen. First off, it would not benefit tna and it would just take away from where they're going if you think they're gonna let some other company or "group" intertwine with their business. I've heard of the group but I honestly never even saw any connections. It won't happen and I hope never does because tna is getting good right now, they don't need some type of angle like that. YODEL

 

[Zeven_Zion]

It's certainly a nice idea, I'll give you that. It's deffinitely good TV but unlikely to happen.

I personally think that 'they' will just turn out to be voices in Abyss' head. ( if 'they' are not Fourtune ). I mean, if there are 'they' that means that there'll be a third stable. So...two heel stables and one face stable? Doesn't make any sense. The ONLY way that would work is if they made Fourtune a tweener stable. I have a feeling that absolutely noone supports the ECW faction and we all support Fourtune because they stand for TNA and we're watching TN-fucking-A. Why would we boo the guys who love TNA. Weird. Have the ECW guys in that thing, have them be faces, have Fourtune battle them, and also have "They" who will be heels wanting to really "take over", where Fourtune can fight too and just come up with shit from that.

However, I think that's too complicated. It'll turn people off for sure. Two stables battling it out sounds pre-tty good for me.

 

[Find'er Woo'er Ryder]

It's certainly a nice idea, I'll give you that. It's deffinitely good TV but unlikely to happen.

I personally think that 'they' will just turn out to be voices in Abyss' head. ( if 'they' are not Fourtune ). I mean, if there are 'they' that means that there'll be a third stable. So...two heel stables and one face stable? Doesn't make any sense. The ONLY way that would work is if they made Fourtune a tweener stable. I have a feeling that absolutely noone supports the ECW faction and we all support Fourtune because they stand for TNA and we're watching TN-fucking-A. Why would we boo the guys who love TNA. Weird. Have the ECW guys in that thing, have them be faces, have Fourtune battle them, and also have "They" who will be heels wanting to really "take over", where Fourtune can fight too and just come up with shit from that.

However, I think that's too complicated. It'll turn people off for sure. Two stables battling it out sounds pre-tty good for me.

well MEM and world elite were 2 heel factions and they fit in perfectly once they alligned. and i think thats a great turn for tna if that does happen which would be pretty cool. and i have a feeling that it might be lol if not that then idk who else can be "they" besides voices or that one dude that use to manage abyss back in like 07 and also brought in rellik saying that was his son or something like that some one help me with the name

 

[yur_momma]

sorry to break it to you guys but mike tenay already said on "the whole f'n show" that the Fortune group was the "they" he was talking about. go rewatch it if you can he clearly says this is who abyss was talking about.

 

[tjkyle316197]

I personally won't give this Wilpon group a second thought until they get some credibility. I fell for that back in 2002 when there was this WXW group (I don't remember the name, but it was around the same time TNA debuted, maybe a little earlier.) and it had a bunch of the ex-WCW guys. I want to say even Hogan may have been involved with it.

Lol, WXW...

http://www.wxwwrestling.com/index.php/superstars/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Xtreme_Wrestling

Not necessarily a failure...

As for the OP's idea, brilliant. I'd prefer it. I mean, between WWE and TNA, (even as they get slightly better) would prob beat out Wilpon unless they get some REAL talent. TNA started out with WCW/ECW/WWF rejects and made them into something, but with the names the the Wilpon has signed, it wouldn't look like they could even beat Superstars in the ratings.

Yes, I suppose I could give him credit and a chance to show the IWC and WWE/TNA U's what they can do, but thinking about it I'd say that at a business perspective the OP's idea makes sense.

 

[shattered dreams]

Nice to see that some people at least sort of get it. Believe me I do not have all the answers, which is why there are disjointed ideas in here. I would say the too complicted issue makes it seem less likely given all the "not really sure what" type comments. However, the general execution would probably be a little more straight forward than trying to explain an intricate 6 month story based on pure speculation. The one thing I fully believe is that TNA would be insane to have "they" be voices in Abyss' head. No payoff to such a big storyline would be a terrible idea.

While there are several possibilities as to how "real" this wilpon group could be within this idea, I was basically suggesting that the group as its own independent company is nothing more than an elaborate work that the wrestling media got duped into. That what actually happened is that TNA found a few people and possibly another investor to allow them to operate in the shadows for essentially a big launch of a second brand, if you want to call it that. Like others have caught on, essentially creating a kayfabe rival promotion. Like WCW had considered with eventually giving NWO their own show or like Bischoff always had said he would have done if WCW won the monday night wars with WWF. Like someone mentioned, they were able to throw people off the trail by convincing people they were in poor financial state. Something I am increasingly believing is not remotely true, even if this story never happens.

I will say each time I go into a little more detail this idea seems somewhat more unlikely but there do seem to be an awful lot of coincidences and it seems like it would be awesome if they were able to fill in the details better than me (something they are clearly capable of).

 

[dwith]

To me it's a very strong possibility. Because their were hint's by Jeff Jerrett about the whole situation, but then as the Wilpon group came public, Jerrett wasn't allowed to disclose anymore hints because of pretty much a gag order.

And we have also heard that x-pac signed with Wilpon group, and Nash said X-PAC would be back, so maybe TNA has picked up Wilpon group as a investor, and they will work with each other swapping talent, and have the backing to tour live show's like WWE with the help of the Wilpon group..

I hope that's what it it. Their's alot of money in the Wilpon, and it might be the boost TNA need's to get out and tour bigger stadiums..

 

[Greydon]

I think that this is too crazy to be true. But crazier things have happened. But if this does haooen it will be good to see TNA get out of the Impact Zone. They can then turn around and use the Impact Zone, as an arena for a development territory Like FCW.

I am hoping this happens, but at the same time I don't. If Wilpon is backing TNA hopefully they TNA, will allow Wipon to bring in a backstage staff that they think will work.

Maybe the Twitter feeds that are going on...Is part of a grander scheme of things. HMMMMM!

 

[MrHashasheen]

Honestly I'm not even sure what you're getting at. Are you suggesting that this Wilpon Wrestling Group is trying to buy out all their contracts or something? That they will have an alliance? I personally won't give this Wilpon group a second thought until they get some credibility. I fell for that back in 2002 when there was this WXW group (I don't remember the name, but it was around the same time TNA debuted, maybe a little earlier.) and it had a bunch of the ex-WCW guys. I want to say even Hogan may have been involved with it. But anyway, it didn't go anywhere. So now I don't take any of these groups seriously until they get at least a tv deal. And by that, I mean where I can actually watch it. I don't even pay any attention to ROH.

You're talking about World Wrestling All-Stars, I think. They were from 2001-2003, I think. They would have had a chance to get over more if they didn't do cartoonish booking.

 

[ABMorales787]

I think people are looking WAAAYYY too much into this. This is comparable to the Bryan Danielson situation. Why would WWE go through the trouble of luring the IWC into believing something and then reveal a real life situation to be nothing more than a work to get attention to their company? Same thing here. Why would TNA officials go through the trouble of spreading a rumor about a new company, just to reveal it as a work for TNA Wrestling? It would make much more sense that there is a cross-promotion deal going on, but then again, how do you cross-promote with an incomplete promotion? Who happens to be attempting to buy out your talent?

 

[shattered dreams]

Hmm, so now they are wwp (worldwide wrestling promotions) and are not coming in october? Or is that more misinformation to throw us off the scent. Or maybe it was supposed to be but TNA does not have the money for it right now. Anyway, more fuel for the fire. The minor league park where TNA set their attendance record through some heavy promoting was a mets minor league team and this latest rumor has jerry jarrett being/looking to get involved.

Regardless of if this somewhat unlikely scenario transpires I hope the name of this company indicates they would have some type of extended world x-cup feel to it if they could ever launch. Kind of a battleground for tna, roh, chikara, aaa, njpw and others. That would be equally interesting as it would be infeasible.

 

[Rayne]

Yes. The end result of a teaser plotline, the big payoff for the audience, is that "they" is a yet unformed and questionably capitalized group of businessmen that most of the audience hasn't heard of. That'd go over really well I think though- there's nothing that guarantees audience response like suddenly bringing out a group of people that only internet nerds who comb over dirt sheets have heard of. That'll surely get TNA to pop those needles back to 1.5.

I admit it would be in the typical TNA style of booking; get 10% of your audience excited, and make the other 90% wonder what they hell they are watching and who the hell booked it.

Beyond that- ugh, wrestling marks.

 

[shattered dreams]

You could not have misinterpreted the concept any worse. Who the fuck said anything about businessmen? In this scenario Wilpon is at most an off screen investor. We are talking about guys like Vader, steiner, waltman (no one ever heardof these guys?) and others being in cahoots with some in TNA management and it all being under the same umbrella, where "money issues" are merely a work. We also never said it was particularly likely. It is interesting that this guy called Jericho just might happen to be available around January 2011. Although, if they were waiting for jericho to launch it would seem to suggest wwp is its own thing.

 

[Rayne]

No, I quite understood your concept, but it still relies on the idea of working the small percentage of your audience that reads internet dirt sheets with a major plotline before the whole audience, at a time in which you are trying to expand your audience by providing a more broad offering.

Simply put, it makes no sense. Which does not necessarily exclude it from being possible. But Vader, Stiener, Waltman- these are definitely proven guys you can build a company around and absolutely wouldn't be a cheap way to get the "where are they now" viewers to give Impact a 1.3 for one night.

And don't make me laugh about Jericho. (Too late. ) Him leaving his WWE money for TNA or some rich guys from the South makes even less sense then this Wilpon group nonsense, all of those "he'd do it for the lighter workload!" bromides you hardcore TNA marks tell yourselves aside. When Chris Jericho decides to leave the WWE, it will either be for non-wrestling television or a personal vanity project like Fozzy. Why on earth would he take a step down from the money-printing WWE machine when he could go to work for a promotion that appears to be hemorrhaging cash? I guess he could always work with Hogan and Bischoff again, just like he's said he's always wanted to.

 

[shattered dreams]

No, I quite understood your concept, but it still relies on the idea of working the small percentage of your audience that reads internet dirt sheets with a major plotline before the whole audience, at a time in which you are trying to expand your audience by providing a more broad offering.

No it doesn't. The only reason the need to work the IWC exists is because they tend to spoil every big story before it hits. The essence of the story works on a mass level. "They" is something like wcw or the attitude era taking down parts of TNA with help from the inside. The working the IWC is simply a way to put together something big without it getting spoiled, not an integral part of the storyline.

Simply put, it makes no sense. Which does not necessarily exclude it from being possible. But Vader, Stiener, Waltman- these are definitely proven guys you can build a company around and absolutely wouldn't be a cheap way to get the "where are they now" viewers to give Impact a 1.3 for one night.

The whole point is that the company also takes some current TNA stars immediately so no one is suggesting those guys are who they build around. They are simply a point refuting your idea that the casual fan never heard of any of these guys.

And don't make me laugh about Jericho. (Too late. ) Him leaving his WWE money for TNA or some rich guys from the South makes even less sense then this Wilpon group nonsense, all of those "he'd do it for the lighter workload!" bromides you hardcore TNA marks tell yourselves aside. When Chris Jericho decides to leave the WWE, it will either be for non-wrestling television or a personal vanity project like Fozzy. Why on earth would he take a step down from the money-printing WWE machine when he could go to work for a promotion that appears to be hemorrhaging cash? I guess he could always work with Hogan and Bischoff again, just like he's said he's always wanted to.

So WWE is running a possible quitting angle with him for the hell of it? I did not say he would be leaving I said he could theoretically be available then. WWE might give him more money but it takes more time and is very your either with us or against us as far as outside projects go. Your entire "logic" is built on the concept that TNA is hemorrhaging cash, something you have zero proof of. There probably is a price at which Jericho would consider a light schedule among some people he likes. To say it is entirely impossible is a joke. TNA could afford Hogan/bischoff, Flair, Jeff Hardy, RVD and Kurt Angle but it is inconceivable they could ever Jericho?

 

[Rayne]

Your logic is getting circular now. So TNA is- in spite of all recent history of hyping signings as soon as they're made- concocting a months long plotline strictly within the confines of the internet, so they can have their 3rd invasion angle of the year not be spoiled to internet fans. For this, we have a wrestler talk about "they" for months on end, and to the casual fan, it's cover for yet another invasion, but to the INTERNET FANS, it's this miraculous swoop of brilliant story writing. I know you've got a dream, but this is just getting silly. No one cares that much about the IWC.

TNA could afford two retired wrestlers with alimony payments, a career midcarder who only made money with the WWE pushing him, a career midcarder with a cult, and one guy who was legitimately big when he went over years ago, when TNA was clearly on its way up with an open future. Compare that to now, when TNA looks like a bad joke in the industry, with its locker room in all but open rebellion and a bunch of bingo hall headliners main eventing shows.

I get you have an idealized notion of how the business works, but based on Chris Jericho's role right now- the go-to guy when the WWE needs to get someone over (a huge role), it's a huge step down in his career to go to TNA. For what it's worth, I think he's going to take some time at the end of his contract and take a break from wrestling for a little bit. Everyone knows his contract is coming up, that's been no secret; why not make an angle out of it and keep fans guessing?

And, as I'll say again, stating "you can't prove that" in no way shape or form implies the opposite is true. You're right- I can't break out a spreadsheet, run my finger down it and point to a big red number and go "here!" But I do this thing called "critical thinking", where you look at the sources of income vs. the cost of their expenses. Unless they've got a very large hidden source of income (Bob Carter doesn't count), they're operating in the red.

Here are some reasons why TNA would announce they are profitable after the Hogan/Bischoff fiasco:

1) It validates the idea in question of hiring Hogan/Bischoff.
2) America loves winners; people want to see a profitable television company. No one watches a show that they know is losing money because they assume it will suck, the rare late night Adult Swim cartoon not withstanding.
3) It creates investor buzz for the inevitable TNA spinoff and IPO, which is the end-game for anyone creating their own business, unless it's merely a vanity project (see: WCW. TNA is different, because at least WCW made sense in a television companies portfolio. Were I a Panda Energy investor, I'd want the board to give good answers as to why they were investing in professional wrestling.)
4) It sets you up for better deals with advertisers, where you can demand a higher rate.

Logical reasons why TNA wouldn't announce a profit?

1) They aren't making one.

 

[shattered dreams]

This is getting really off-topic and if you do not understand the difference between theoretically possible and probable then I am not going waste my time with that. Who invaded TNA this year? No one. ECW was not an invasion, Fourtune is not invading, they work there. How is the "they" storyline not building to some sort of invasion? Abyss continually talks about them taking over.

No one cares much about the IWC but WWE is working them on Jericho's possible retirement? WWE makes lots of IWC type references on NXT and Cena used the heel rumors to try and sell a PPV. The whole danielson thing. Right no one ever works the IWC over extended time periods. You also do not get it still. It is not supposed to be interesting to just the internet fans. So, Jericho's jobber to the stars role with no outside wwe flexibility is going to keep him in wwe and I am the one that does not understand the business?

Since when does TNA hype all signings recently? They have hyped almost no signings since hogan. Almost all of them have debuted before TNA specifically announced them.

Cool more unconfirmed dirt sheet material described as fact. TNA locker room openly rebelling, no evidence of some large scale disillusionment but it is clearly happening because some people said it on the internet. No company would ever let that bingo haller dreamer headline a show. Or did wwecw do it on occasion and when they did he outdrew the same guys wwe is pushing right now?

Ok, critical think me up a tangible list of their costs and expenses. Then maybe we can debate if I agree with you. Any idea what their rating is worth in various foreign countries? Me neither but the difference is that I do not pretend I have all the answers when I have essentially none. The only persons pay I think I know secondhand in all of TNA is velvet sky. So me not being a pompous buffoon I would tend to avoid guessing their payroll. I am not sure if you know as much as you think you do about business. Especially since it is not uncommon at all for young companies to operate in the red.

The only one of your why do its that is relevant to telling public is the least sensical one. I have watched a tv show for a lot of reasons but because they told me they make a profit is not one of them. I tend to be a quality of programming mark myself. I also think Dixie has mentioned making profits at various times over the past couple of years, I think she even did in the youshoot earlier this year. There are definite advantages of keeping competitors etc. in the dark about your exact financial situation when you have the luxury. Otherwise why would any company ever stay private?

 

[Rayne]

If you are prepared to say that TNA doesn't hype their signings, two days after Dixie Carter tweets about her hot new free agent signing that everyone's been asking about, I really don't know where else to go with this argument. That's just ignoring the obvious.

 

[shattered dreams]

If you are prepared to say that TNA doesn't hype their signings, two days after Dixie Carter tweets about her hot new free agent signing that everyone's been asking about, I really don't know where else to go with this argument. That's just ignoring the obvious.

She did not announce who it was, which was the whole question at hand and you know it. I assume since that is the only point you attempted to refute, however poorly it may have been done, that you concede that you are wrong about your other random tna dirt sheet catchphrase criticisms. Just have the decency to take the off-topic ravings to the complaints thread.