Is the WWE "retraining" its fans?

[tvcolosi]

I posted this in the Raw section, but it really has to do with the WWE as a whole....

During the height of the "Attitude Era" just about every match had weapons, every match went to the floor, every main event had blood, and every interview had 5 curse words... Not to mention everyone was "too tough" to actually tap out. I am actually seeing the "PG Era" as a good thing in the long run. and here are some examples as to why...

1. This puts more emphasis on the in ring ability. Look at most Daniel Bryan matches, they take place completely between the ropes, except for the suicide dive spot he likes.

2. Street fights, eXtreme Rules and NO DQ matches have a little extra zing now that they are less frequent...

3. I think eventually and only on PPV's Blood will be brought back, when you haven’t seen the proverbial "crimson mask" in a few years, it will have a bigger impact on that match. It can also be used as a story line device, you get a special feud one day and you can dust off the old First Blood match.

4. Ass, there I said it, and when John Cena said it 2 weeks ago, and it had an effect on that interview. You knew that it was a little more important, a little more special. That match then did deliver on Monday; I thought Punk pulled a very good match out of Cena.

So in conclusion:
If weapons aren't always used, weapons become a big deal.
If brawls around the arena are rare, then they are a big deal
If Blood is sparse, blood becomes a big deal
If Curses are few and far between, then they are a big deal...

So I think they are changing our mindset in the long run. The business became over exposed, and it was getting stale as a result. The WWE actually was ahead of the curve, and I think is "retraining" us.

This is just one man’s opinion... What are your thoughts?

 

[ABMorales787]

In basic, I agree with you. But to be honest, this runs with the times. Back in the 80's the sign of blood meant big even if it was a lot more common back then than now. The use of a chair to hit somebody was also a big deal. The 90's changed that and made stuff like jumping off ladders and self mutilation seem like an artform rather than a moment of shock. Then in the early new millennium, necrophilia was a hit. Joke aside, the point is that as times change so do people's interest. Eventually the dynamic has to change to suit the newer times.

 

[MonkeyRko]

i don't understand how everyone now says they enjoy the PG-era now? it seriously sucks! wrestling should have some swears, im not saying like using the F word but like not allowing them to say "Ass" is compete B.S, like come on i hear more swears in family guy and they Bleep it out but i still know what there saying and kids do watch family guy! the whole PG thing is really lame its not so much trying to have kids come to a wrestling event coz there were kids in the attitude era as well its just making wrestling have really kidy promo's usually by john cena and plus is this PG thing trying to target stupid kids? coz come on!! my cousin who is 7 years old thinks wwe sucks now and he watches old school wwF!!

 

[The Idiot]

As I've said before...I will always defend the attitude era for everything it brought, but I agree with the TS here. Just as in life...too much of anything is never good. As far as "retraining" the fans goes...whether they are doing that intentionally or not, it seems to be the case, especially for the younger audience. The old school fans will always be wanting a little more because it's something we were used to back in the day...so it's not going to work as well with them.
In the end I would love to see a mix of the two. Continue with the PG era that we were brought up with in the 80's and save the blood and extreme rules for PPVs and curse words every so often to build up a big feud.

 

[MizterColemine]

I think they are attempting to compensate for decline in revenue over the years by targeting a wider audience. It's not so bad that we should blame them for toning down that which is bad for kids to begin with. If you think about it in a broader context, Hollywood does it constantly. A movie that would have been R-rated has to edit out some F-Bombs, boobs, or tone down the blood so that it will make more in theaters by allowing entry of those under 17. Same concept with WWE. Its not those of us who have been watching since childhood will up and stop watching, but now they have dumbed some things down so that a kindergartener will understand, and now the WWE's content resonates with the kids, the parents aren't as upset because the catchphrase their mimicing doesn't have "punk-ass bitch" in it. The kids aren't trying to draw blood from eachother in the back yard anymore (theoretically of course). And this is a good thing... right?

 

[Radio GaGa]

you haven’t seen the proverbial "crimson mask" in a few years

If I recall the events from... IDK 3-4 months back, Randy Orton was bloodied 2 straight weeks on Raw, one time with that original crimson mask, when he was hit on the head with a comentators monitor... Bur you are right, it added that extra ZING to the whole show

 

[#1Contender]

I personally am sick of the "PG era". I feel WWE higher ups are "feeling out" fans thoughts as well. The talent is constantly making references to the show being PG during their promos and they do it in an almost annoyed tone. Not to mention the subtle ways they're introducing PG-13 subject matter, (the new Nexus initiations, Cena saying "ass", CM Punk in general, at the Slammy's having the Holy S**t moment of the year instead if the OMG momnet of the year.) It might be wishful thinking but there seems to be some sort of change happening.

 

[tvcolosi]

Also it makes the talent show through, guys like Jericho and Punk shows you can use PG words and put out some of the best promos in the business.

If you have cake and ice cream everyday, then what would be so special about your birthday... If you got presents everyday, what would be so special about Christmas. At the pace they were going, someone would have to be decapitated for us to see something new. That to me is also why I think TNA is a little stale, they are trying to use Boobs, blood , and swears to pump the ratings with mediocre (at best) story lines. You can be physical and personal without blood and swears. It all boils down to the story, and the in ring action IMO.

 

[bluejt16]

i don't really care about PG or attitude but i do want to talk about the swear words. now i don't if it's just me being british but ass isn't really a bad word, certainly not in the WWE. one of the big faces going into the rumble is mark henry and last time i checked the first line in his ring music is "somebody's gonna get their ass kicked" so the ass word obviously really doesn't bother the WWE.

 

[The Pizzaman]

The 90s were the attitude era and blood flowed like fine red wine. Hairs were being introduced to peoples heads on a regular basis and wrestlers could be just that bit more angry both in ring and on the mic. Who can forget Rick Flair nearly busting veins in his neck as he was so angry and soon he was bleeding out in the ring due to a set of brass knuckles. In today's WWE the match between Mankind and Undertaker would never happen. But that was then and this is now. Now Im a fan who has watched so many gruesome matches with wrestlers bleeding and having broken bones being stretchered out of the arena. I understand that WWE is "family" orientated and the will be kids at the event and that's completely fine. The only problem I have is that because of the PG rule it ruins certain events like extreme rules and hardcore matches just dont happen any more. Now as I said at the beginning the blood being spilled during the attitude era was very common and it did take away some of the enjoyment and it also meant that wrestlers were damaging themselves more often than they are now. So why is it that the WWE still has events such as extreme rules where there are no rules and yet no one bleeds? Cage matches and no one bleeds? How can this be believed? When someone get hit with a foreign object they will more than likley bleed or there will be visible cuts and we all know that most of the time when a wrestler bled it had nothing to do with the move or object used to hit them but they had concealed a sharp edged item in to their ring attire and they did a small cut to themselves without being seen to create the illusion. But the visual impact was what made those matches. I understand that pg rating is there to widen the audience and to allow children into events which I say is a good thing but at the moment there are kids programmes that have more violence and cursing than at a WWE event. If the PG rating is to be believed then Extreme rules will have to be renamed or another theme of event needs to be thought up. I just hope that they can also cater for the old school fans who grew up watching Mick Foley, Terry Funk and the entire old school ECW roster every once in a while. Let Extreme rules be what it says it is. EXTREME!!! How can the likes of the Undertaker and Kane be believed if they cannot be extreme as they were when they entered the WWE. In the long run WWE will start losing fans and start running kindergartens in the audience.

 

[MicksterG951]

I dont think its retraining, more like evolving with their fans. They started PG for kids and as the kids of the PG "Era" grow up, the WWE will change with them. I also belive there will be another Attitude Era and then another PG era. Its all just a big cycle

 

[warchildrex]

well, we have to remember...this isn't the first time this has happened.

i grew up in the "federation years." my dad watched with me, but recalled many times how bloody wrestling had been when he was first watching. to him, dusty rhodes' characterization was an insult, because he had watched dusty bloodied so many times in previous matches...

watching old tapes when i was young, i was amazed at how often the wrestlers finished big matches or feuds covered in blood...and wondered how come it didn't happen anymore.

slowly, as wwf gained ground, and solidified its fan base, it started taking more risks with more mature content. sunny was such a hugs change in the female valets...instead of the classy, demure miss elizabeth, or the villainous sherri (with her "loaded" purse), we had a female valet that outright flaunted her sexuality, and used it as a weapon to aid her chosen performer. then we started to see blood a bit more often...hogan at mania 7, hart at mania 8. the blood was a bit shocking back then...i still remember them censoring blood on wwf tv (brutus beefcake's losing battle against a spur comes to mind).

but, as things became a little more uncertain, the tv product became more safe. less overt sexuality, less blood. after the mid-nineties boom, both wcw and wwe felt safe enough to take chances with edgier product...unfortunately, that boom ended, and things had to move back to a safer level.

as things are improving, and as wwe takes strides back into the mainstream, i think we'll see more edge. maybe not as much as the attitude era, but then again, who knows? if the product is raking in enough money, it may very well go that far.

so yeah, i agree with the op...a new generation is being trained, and now i can watch it with my son and remember how commonplace weapons, tables, chairs, and blood were in my day...whereas he's a bit more shocked by a spectacle like the nexus invasion.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Historically speaking, the WWE has gone back to a format that has always been the bread and butter of professional wrestling. That bread and butter is a PG format designed to appeal to a broad audience. The Attitude Era was an interesting time but it was a fad, plain and simple. That sometimes rubs some of the IWC raw, but it's the truth. The Attitude Era had tons of shock value and brought in huge ratings during the Monday Night Wars. When the Wars ended, so did the huge ratings and this was long before the WWE officially went back to a PG format.

In most ways, I prefer the PG Era to the Attitude Era. As I said, the Attitude Era was primary about generating shock value, which would hopefully pop a rating. Not saying that there's anything wrong with that, but when I turn on my television to watch a wrestling program, I want there to be some actual wrestling. During the AE, most of the time we saw 30 minute promo and/or backstage segments at a time with maybe 10 minutes of wrestling on a regular basis.

I consider myself to be somewhat "simple". I don't need to watch segments in which a wrestler is tied up about to get his dick chopped off by a katana or simulated sex with a simulated corpse. Give me a few good promo segments, some interesting storylines/feuds and a handful of good wrestling matches and I'm perfectly satisfied. I want to be entertained first and foremost and the PG Era does that just as well as the Attitude Era did and does it better in some ways.

 

[moneymaker90]

This is pure business. Vince believes that the best market nowadays for his product are kids and you really can't say he is wrong. 90% of the IWC is never going to be fans of the PG but then again they are a very small percentage of the company's followers. Vince is still getting good TV deals, ticket sales for house shows are higher than ever and he probably never made so much money in marketing products sales.
The bottom line is Vince is still getting tons of money every single day, and he is not going to change his product unless he finds a better opportunity and you can not blame him for that.

 

[The Wolf]

You have a point but the need to find a middle ground.

The Attitude Era lost sight of the great old fashion technical wrestler and it was bout the brawler.

Now it is trying to be all bout the "kids" and take out the brawler.

Kurt Angle is the perfect example IMO of what the core of wrestling should be. He is one of the best technical wrestler of all time, but when needed he can brawl. Jack Swagger I can see taking Angles place in wrestling.

You need the rest and other combinations as well for it to work ie Morrison is very well rounded. Kofi is a great high flyer but was saw that he can brawl as well. CM Punk is a great technical and judo (as fans we always love the Martail Arts wrestling mix). HHH Technical and Power and Brawler.

Agree Disagree Suggestions

 

[Mustang Sally]

Historically speaking, the WWE has gone back to a format that has always been the bread and butter of professional wrestling.

That's true, and WWE has always been the trendsetter in determining how to give people the most enjoyment out of watching wrestling. They aren't always correct in their deductions, but when you're the leader of the industry, you've got to make the hard decisions. Personally, I would rather see some more Attitude Era in today's programming, but that's just my opinion.

As to the original premise of this thread, I say that pro wrestling has done a marvelous job of retraining fans over the years. If they left everything the same, the "sport" might have become obsolete years ago. I'm always amused when I see how Bruno Sammartino turned his back on WWE because he decided he didn't like the direction wrestling was moving. I say that if everything stayed the same way it was when he was performing, there might not be a pro wrestling for him to hate.

Change is necessary, and no one understands that better than VKM.

 

[tvcolosi]

The best part is people that say that they don't watch anymore. Once a mark always a mark. I am a mark, and proud of it, my heart started pumping a little quicker when the HBK HOF announcement was on a few weeks back. I am tired of wrestling fans who think they are too cool for wrestling. One of the guys replied that we need swears in wrestling, really do we "need them". I agree that they add push and meaning in a promo. That's why they need to be used much more sporadically. I truly think we will see the return of these things in the coming months. You have to take it away for a while for it to be noticeable that it is back.

 

[andjbock]

I don't check the forums often, but saw this thread and wanted to comment.

One thing I just want to toss out there is the correlation between the American economy and its associated value system as it pertains to the WWE. Basically, harsher times and economic climates result in them scaling back and taking less risk.

If you look at the WWE vs. the American economy & core values over the past 30 years they sync up pretty similarly with the type of product the WWE has put out.

Obviously there are many other factors that go into the equation, but I think this is the true determining outcome for how the WWE runs its operation.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the dot com era ran parallel to the Attitude era, just like how current PG style is running at a time when the economy is in a recession. Conservative beliefs are also much stronger now than they were 10-15 years ago, and war and the economy are responsible for that.

So when/if they economy recovers, I think you'll see the restraints loosened some and things like blood or sexual overtones will once again be more acceptable and work their way back into WWE programming (to some extent).

But I don't believe the WWE will revert back to an Attitude era on its own without extraneous factors dictating that decision for them.

 

[CH David]

I saw a PG Era sucks portion of a post. People that still use the "PG SUX!!!!!" argument are both hilarious and downright pathetic. You can blame the rating for not seeing Attitude Era stuff, but to say that the product sucks because of it is simply false. Even though I'm perfectly happy with the product now, sure you can have some better writing for feuds and what not. But that is on creative, not the rating. Christ just get over it.

Sorry for that. To answer the thread title, I don't see how it can't be a yes. During the old days there was blood, violence, and swears when necessary. They all enhanced matches to show true hatred in the story. Then we switched to seeing it constantly throughout the Attitude Era, and some of it was quite unnecessary. Blood flowed like water, swears were every five seconds, and we had some violent shit go down. Well the fans got used to it all. Nothing was a shock anymore, and what people fail to realize is that it's a problem. In a day where we have spoilers posted on wrestling websites and rumors going around, not a lot can shock people or surprise people. Well when the time comes, you will see blood in heated feuds, will see people swear at each other (not as much as the Attitude Era), and you will get the damn violent match that blowoff matches should have.