Is kayfabe damaging wrestling?

[It's...Baylariat!]

In other words, forget character acting and just have wrestlers shoot all the time and go into business for themselves? You're joking right?

First off, Vince's version of kayfabe and, say, Jim Cornette's version of kayfabe are different. Vince thinks his folks have to be in some sort of costume in order to get over. Cornette believes in personality carrying over in real life. Think about this. Back in the older days, you never seen the Four Horsemen having a beer with Dusty Rhodes or Magnum TA, even though there was never real heat between those guys. Yet, people were convinced that the Four Horsemen wanted to actually murder Dusty Rhodes. It's called personality and playing your role to give a sense of realism, without being real at all.

Cartoonish acts like having Nexus wear their armbands doesn't do anything to protect the kayfabe aspect. All Barrett has to do is be his character. No need for an armband. Kayfabe isn't damaging wrestling, but BAD kayfabe is damaging wrestling.

 

[robertg316]

Simply Hilarious!

Pro wrestling without kayfabe is just wrestling. As in the SPORT! Pro wrestling as we know it is not classed as such and should not be viewed in the same way. What do you propose? HHH going on Leno talking about his new baby with Steph and taking an office job in WWE and then going on Raw the next night and hitting Vince with a sledgehammer! Then what? Back on that same talk show a week later;

HHH - 'oh hey man,about last weeks Raw, im not fired or in jail for that or anything........after all its all fake anyway Jay,you know that'

LENO - ' of course i do Paul, I did work for WCW, anyway thanks alot for your time and dont forget to tune in next week folks when HHH DDT's Republican nominee in the 2010 race for U.S. Senate Linda McMahon through a table,ha ha those darn mother in laws hey'

(HHH leans over and high 5's Leno)

 

[Djm]

I can't figure out why people that seem to despise the Internet and how it 'killed wrestling' come onto forums like this.

Anyway, I don't think kayfabe should be eliminated. That said, I don't think we should all be expected to turn our brains off and act like we're all 9 year olds, either.

Since we all know that it's scripted, I think blurring the lines between reality and fiction is a good thing. Most non-Internet fans won't know the difference, and the Internet fans get all worked up over what's a shoot and what's a work, and become even more interested.

 

[goodlay]

This is completely illogical. You do realize taking kayfabe away from pro wrestling would basically get rid of everything we know and love about WWE and TNA?

It'd basically be like if a TV producer just decided to abandon all of his actors/actresses TV characters and was just like "You know what, just go out there and be your real self".

What so many people fail to realize about wrestling is that it's just like any other TV show. You have to have kayfabe, or else what do you have? Just some men running around in skimpy outfits.

Also I think it's ridiculous to get angry/sad if/when you see a wrestler in public and they aren't in character. Why the fuck would they be in character? Do actors/actresses play their TV characters in real life? No, and for good reason.

People who think kayfabe should be killed off entirely aren't thinking clearly. You do realize if kayfabe was taken away, that we couldn't have 95% of the angles/storylines that are done/have been done?

Wrestling without kayfabe wouldn't make it "real". In actuality it would just take out all of the drama and entertainment.

 

[ABMorales787]

If you don't want kayfabe, go watch MMA. There's a reason these are two totally different field's. One's strives on realism, athleticism and sport while the other relies on building personality and story. Guess which is which. MMA is exactly what the OP is describing. Focusing on realism and sportsmanship. But there's a reason why wrestling still exists and it hasn't devolved into a Russo-oriented form of MMA:


Only the media cares that WWE "fakes it". Not the fan's. You think a 30 year old would care that Undertaker doesn't go into a mall on his trench coat and eyeliners? No. WWE want's the mainsteam acceptance it once had. What WWE doesn't realize is that they often try too hard. They go through too far lengths for it. However that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with kayfabe. Tell a kid that Kane isn't real demon or that Jeff Hardy was a meth-head. See if they care.

 

[Monkey_Mania]

Exactly what Killjoy said. When I'm watching the show, I could give a shit less if it's fake. I see Sheamus out there dismantling Daniel Bryan, I think "Oh fuck, he's gonna kill that twat." It doesn't matter to me if they use Kayfabe or not. I will always watch because I love Wrestling, and kayfabe won't make me like it any more or any less.

 

[rb624]

Kayfabe no longer exists. Once McMahon told the world that the matches were scripted, kayfabe was gone forever. "Kayfabe" is the illusion that something is real. The foundation of that illusion was that the industry NEVER admitted to wrestling as being anything other than 100% legit. The illusion was never perfect, but how could it be? But they felt that as long as they kept up the illusion by not admitting it was fake, the fans would keep coming. It was the mystique more than anything. They didn't maintain kayfabe for the few fans that thought wrestling was real. They kept it up for the 99% of fans who knew it was fake but loved buying into the illusion. The industry thought that if they ever officially smartened everybody up, the illusion would be shattered and no one would want to watch anymore.

So when fans today refer to the storylines and the made-up characters as being kayfabe, I can't help but think to myself that that isn't the true meaning of kayfabe. I don't know what word should be used instead, but kayfabe isn't it. I'm not saying the Montreal Screw Job or Jake Roberts being drunk or the Iron Shiek's hatred for Blair are fake, but pretending to shoot is the only way left to practice the art kayfabe.

 

[multiverseman.com]

Haha @ the kayfabe defenders. You're not gonna harm pro wrestling one iota by telling the world it's fake, which they already know. I think it's corny to have these guys go around and pretend to be their characters. It's not doing anything but placating old schoolers that think everyone ELSE is being fooled by it, thus wrestling is protected. Nobody's gonna stop watching because Wade Barrett appears on Conan and talks about how fun it is to pretend to fight some guy.

My question would be, how far would you want to go with getting rid of kayfabe? Let's say Randy Orton and John Cena have a grueling, brutal match that leaves both men on the brink of death. As soon as the show is "over," would you anti-kayfabe guys want them to bounce up smiling, slap each other on the back, and say, "Good match, pal!"

In my opinion, if you would have a problem with the above scenario, you can't really say you want to get rid of kayfabe.

That's nonsense. Everything on TV and inside the arena is part of the show.

Everything else isn't. It's that simple.

 

[TUFFY54]

Great Thread!

I almost totally agree with you. Obviously, there are times when they should stay in character in public. For example, when they are doing something for a kids show or Teen Choice Awards, they should definatly be who the kids see on TV. However, when they try to pull that crap in outside interviews its emberassing as hell.

A few years ago Kane went on sports center to promote the movie See No Evil. Notice I didn't say Glen Jacobs. "Kane", the demonic half brother of the Undertaker was actually being interview on sports center. It was so emberassing that the anchors were trying not to laugh.

I do think that Vince kind of regulates how they act in interview based on what show they are on. I stated above that "Kane" was on sports center. Vince knows that a lot of kids watch sports center. However, Glen Jacobs has been on Fox news talking about the Libretarian Party. He was funny and well spoken and wore a collard shirt. Now, this was undoubtably becuase Vince knows that no little kids are watching Fox news.

A great place to hear wrestler interviews is on the Opie and Anthony show on XM radio. Its uncensored and they don't let anyone be in character. Thats why I like Cena. A few years ago Cena did their show at the height of his SuperCena gimmick. During the interview he said "fuck", and talked about drinking beer and going to strip clubs. It made me realize that he is a real person that is simply acting. Triple H has also done the show many times and talked about the behind the seens of the Katie Vick video and about X Pac and Chyna's sex tape. About 6 months ago Austin did a great interview and talked about how he thought the PG product was lacking.

In closing, while I'm almost always against breaking kayfabe on the wrestling show itself, I definatly think it should be broken in "public". It's like people have said: Christian Bale does a wonderful job of playing Batman in the movies. However, if he went on the Tonight Show and pretended to be Bruce Wayne people would think he was a total joke.

 

[AndyUK]

Agree with this thread. For me, it is one of the main issues because I've been told so many times by people that wrestling as fake, like it is some sort of huge news or something and it is very annoying. They're actors playing roles, it is hokey to play your character out of the ring in 2010.

To be fair though, it doesn't exist that much anymore with all of the Superstars interacting on Twitter, heels talking like normal people during the Stand Up for WWE promos etc. I don't get why WWE are so caught up in Nexus and Serena maintaining their characters when all of that happens.

They shouldn't come out and admit that it is fake on TV but wrestlers shouldn't have to play their characters off screen. Its stupid. They're actors playing roles.

 

[LSN80]

Without Kayfabe, the wrestling industry would be dead in the water. You can blame alot of things on declining viewership and buyrates, but kayfabe is NOT one of them.

I wouldnt watch if Kayfabe wasn't a part of wrestling. The larger then life characters that are portrayed, both in the ring and in promos, are what make wrestling special. I don't care about the individual in real life, any more then I care about the actor playing my favorite TV character. I assume theyre one and the same, and like it that way.

So no, kayfabe should not be eliminated. It would be detrimental to any company that does so.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

You know what the television euivalent of destroying kayfae would be? Imagine you are watching a movie and at the climax when the hero is handing out the antagonist the beating of a lifetime the screen suddenly freezes up and a message comes up in big red letters: THIS IS ALL FAKE. THESE GUYS ARE BEST FRIENDS IN REAL LIFE. THEY DO NOT HATE EACH OTHER.

Or say when you are watching a sci-fi flick, this message pops up: TIME TRAVEL IS NOT POSSIBLE. Would you have enjoyed "Back to the Future" or " Terminator" had this message popped up the every other scene?

Destroying kayfabe is a shit idea altogether. It will only take wrestling backward rather than forward. The kids are drawn to it because they feel it is real while us fans don't really give a damn. So by destroying kayfabe you lose your fanbase in the kids to please whom? The media? Well the media is a monster looking to make a buck every time you fuck up. So in order to gain the approval of a select few, approval that is in no way is their consistent view about you, that is subject to change in accordance to your ratings, are you ready to lose a loyal fanbase. We might continue to watch(not sure, though) but I'm pretty certain that the children would not be pleased.

The best way to go is the way Vince Mcmahon is going. He is proclaiming that it is an entertainment industry. He even calls his company World Wrestling ENTERTAINMENT. It is something that kids don't give a damn about and yet it is earning the approval of those who looked down upon pro wrestling.