Is it time to end the brandsplit? | Page 3 | WrestleZone Forums

Is it time to end the brandsplit?

Well, Spawn, I can't say I disagree entirely with you. I do agree that the writing is shitty, but my opinion is that it is because average writers aren't given much to work with. The company chooses who to push, so the writers have to make it work, and it gets old. I'm not going to paste the whole message, but I will rebut a bit.

First of all, I think the bad story lines have more to do with the brand split than anything else. The writers have to write 75% of the time about the titles. Too many titles ruin the soup, more than too many cooks. If you took your top writers and told them to write 40% of the show about the champions, you could work a staff for midcard, for cruisers, for women, etc. I agree that specialists are needed, the only problem being, in the current state, those shitty writers are writing the top storylines. I believe that one championship storyline would improve the card all the way down. Feel free to disagree, my logic could be wrong.

I like Finaly too, no argument here. As I said above, if written correctly, everyone would be given a shot. There are only certain guys that deserve time EVERY show. The way the WWE works, you can use 4-6 of them in one tag match, that including promos takes up 20 minutes of a show. All the feuds and histories can be tied up neatly into a package. I look at WWE like a TV show. I was a fan of the West Wing. That show had 8 major characters, all with two story lines about them. But so many of the storylines overlapped, that resolution, or at least continuance could happen for multiple angles at the same time. The WWE needs to be creative, but I think a well rounded show featuring several characters weekly seems attainable, especially with 4 to 5 hours of time to do it in.

Tag feuds take seconds to start. TNA does this effectively time and again jsut by having one team interrupt an interview and taking it from there. If Cody Rhodes and Holly are telling Diva Search Winner Todd Grisham about how dominant they are, and Cantino come up and tell them about their singles losses, you can start a match. If London and Kendrick talk about loving the fans and Cade and Murdoch walk up and tell them that they better love the fans because they don't have the size to compete, we can find out after this break. A tag match doesn't take a lot of build-up. A singles feud does. A singles feud needs motivation for two "loners" (all wrestlers seem to be loner tweeners now) to have a conflict. With tag teams, the psychology goes that one is braver with his backup next to him. Shit is talked, bonds are forged, hostilities heated, and so on.

ECW already looks like a minor league show. I jsut want Kane off of it. Why does Kane have to be champion of the shit characters while Snitsky gets to fight HHH?

I grant you that competition kept ratings up, but there is no competition now. TNA would get crushed by WWE head to head, based merely on brand recognition. The WWE needs a way to get ratings up. You have to figure that some of the roughly 10 million viewers go in and out of shows based on a weekly basis. If you have compelling storylines, there is a likelihood that all the people who watched last week, will watch again, and the guys who missed last week, but are tuned in this week would be added. Now instead of 5 million hardcore week to week fans can be added to the 10 million on and off guys, Make WWE must see tv again. You don't need TNA or WCW to do that, you need good stories. With more combinations of feuds, I think it is more easily attainable with a brandsplit.
 
fromthesouth, you talk about things getting stale because of too many belts and because plots always revolve around the same guys. How will that change if you remove some of the belts and merge the brands? I bet things will get even more stale.

Ok, so you got 1 brand. Now wrestlers want air time. Here are the current top cards - guys that can be champion at any given time:

Bastista
Cena
HHH
HBK
Jericho
Orton
JBL
Big Show
Kane
Edge
Undertaker

Thanks to the three brands we have more top guys than previously (Cena, Orton, Batista, JBL and Edge are a product of the brand split). Now those guys want air time, so we need 5 or 6 matches to book them. And there's your show: that list of wrestlers. There's your RAW and your Smackdown until one of them gets hurt, retires or leaves the company unhappy about not being utilized properly, i.e. a mid-carder taking his spot. You talk about things being stale. You want those same 5-6 matches day in day out, on all the brands??? A show only has 2 hours. You can't seriously believe Batista or JBL or any of them will go back to the Tag Team division? All those guys will want to be in the hunt for the World Championship. With a brand merger, the WWE will lose even more talent to TNA.

The WWE is too big for one show. The pond has gotten bigger but the amount of fish has increased too slowly. The problem is the WWE needs more big names, not drive some of them away by shrinking the pond again. And it will shrink if you have the same guys appearing on all the brands. Smackdown might as well be called "Raw 2" in the brand merger.
 
You guys keep saying the same thing, and not answering my response. It's a contest of who can use the same argument the most almost. Watch a WWE show. I don't think a lot of you are. If you name 10 guys, how are those ten guys going to need five matches? If you ever watched the product, you would see that on the week to week show, they sell the PPV by taking two to three of the feuds and making a tag match main event out of it. Now we're talking about two or three matches. You make one of those matches the main event on Raw, the other on SD!

Do you remember pre-brandsplit? On one show the Rock would promo, and Austin would wrestle. On the other it would be reversed. Some weeks they would wrestle on the same show. These guys had one show of action, one of talking.

You guys have this myopic view that the WWE is going to blow their loads and if Batista and Taker are feuding, then Batista and Taker are going to fight every show. That would be stupid. The WWE makes matches to sell PPV's. That's why there are DX reunions. HBK is feuding with Orton, HHH with JBL. So HBK and HHH fight Orton and JBL in a 15 minute match. That's four of your 10 or 11 guys. Now they're used, and the rest will be used similarly. Even if they do that on EVERY show, that is only 45 minutes of usage. Taking out time for commercials, that leaves HALF THE FUCKING SHOW for the undercard. The top card is more important, so it deserves more time. Plus, we are going to watch anyway, so the WWE's concern is to keep the interest of the casual fan. A top-card focus does that. So what if they leave 10 minutes for a Shelton Benjamin vs CM Punk technical clinic? We like that, but you know what, who fucking cares?

Anyway, back to my point. One match a week on TV for most of your list, maybe two matches for one of the feuds. A promo for all ten of those guys. We have used less than two hours of the five the the WWE gets on TV. After you take out commercial time, there is 2 hours plus, or 40% of the time to develop every wrestler. Carlito is cool and all, and Santino is funny, but is there a reason they need to be on TV every week? Part of the reason that the Machine Guns and LAX are so over is that they are not overexposed. With this stupid brandsplit, after you get past the top of the card, we are stuck with Chuck Palumbo on TV. Let's do a fictional run through of a week of TV, and you will see where I am coming from.

Monday 8-815
HHH, Vince, Orton, and Regal argue about belts.
ads
819-826
John Morrison and the Miz kill London and Kendrick (Don''t worry, Kendrick does one cool thing, leaving the IWC to write about how underrated he is, Paul London still fails to Ricky Morton correctly, leaving me to remind you that these guys suck balls)

827-832
Cena insults Orton, they fight, Taker gets involved
ads

835-838
In Regal's office, Orton begs for a match, and it is granted. Since Taker has to fight MVP at the next PPV, the match is Cena and Taker Vs. Orton and MVP.

839-848
In the ring, Y2J's highlight reel features Batista and Kane as a preview to their PPV match this Sunday, shit is talked, punches are thrown, security gets TV time.

849 Regal says if they want to fight, they can do it on SD!, as partners against DX!!!!!!!

ads

852-859
First main event - Umaga vs HBK
ads
902-912 conclusion, main event 1 HBK wins

915-927
Rhodes and Holly lose the tag belts to Shelton and Burke
ads from 920-922

928-932 Carlito says he doesn't care who has the belts, he and Santino are #1 contenders.

933-946 Jeff Hardy defeats Kennedy and Big Show in a three way first blood match, ads in the middle
ads
947-1007
Edge beats Matt Hardy in a Lita blowup doll on a poll ladder match, lot's of classic action, after a hole is ripped in the doll's chest Lawler utters the classic, "Her dogs just turned into pupppies!!!"

Tuesday ECW
900-908
CM Punk and Kelly beat Burchill and Katie

ads

911-924
Morrison beats Miz in a team captain match.
ads

927-929
As Morrison and the Miz are arguing backstage, Burke and Shelton, flashing gold, tell them it doesn't matter who the captain of the (insert home crowds worst local team) is because they still suck. Punches thrown
ads

932-934
Regal makes a match for the PPV, TLC Rhodes Holly, Santino Carlito, Burke Shelton, Morrison Miz

937-942
Kane squashes Tommy Dreamer
ads

944-1003
Y2J vs Jeff Hardy in a classic. Jeff regains the IC belt, fade to black

SD!
700-707, we recap the Orton HHH belt drama. Preview Orton MVP vs. Cena Taker
ads
710-718
Vladamir Kozloff loses to Chris Harris
719-721
In the locker room Cena and tells Taker he doesn't like him but they have to get along. Taker punches him.
722-727
Crowd cheers
ads
730-747

DX vs Kane and Batista
ads
749
Y2J does something to get involved in a triple threat falls count anywhere elimination match in the PPV for the IC strap with Hardy and Kennedy

ads

800-813
MooreWang beat Chuck Palumbo and Burchill. Moore then grabs the mic and says this was for you Ricky Morton and tells London to suck it.

ads
815-824
Kennedy and Umage lose to Hardy and Y2J

825-834 with ads in the middle, post match brawl, Orton walks to the ring and reminds us that his dad being on the road imparied his communication skills.

ads

837-900

main event.

By my count, 35 guys got used. A championship feud, Orton and HHH developed. A midlevel top card feud between Taker and MVP was moved along. Same with Kane and Batista. An IC level feud between Jericho, who promos with the top guys, and wrestles in the midcard, Hardy, and Kennedy. Cena and JBL's feud got moved along. The tag picture was more developed than it is on real TV. Beth Phoenix was nowhere near the TV. All positives.

Note: This is not my saying that they can use 35 wrestlers a week. That was a fictional runthru of a week to illustrate that the card can be filled top to bottom. With the brand split, every feud is for a championship. Anything that isn't gets settled on Raw or SD!, which kills it's heat. Don't critique my booking here, as it wasn't the best effort in story writing, I just wanted to show how to use the card without a brand split. I used over half the roster in ONE week. Like I said, not the whole roster has to be used every show, but certain guys do. I even used some heat killers which could be replaced with other guys, so I don't want to hear who I left out, except for the top guys, any name can be substituted in any situation. That caveat is for you Kenny Dykstra fans.
 
Obviously three brands is one too many. I'd get rid of Smackdown, not because its crap, but because Raw is the A brand, and ECW is a training camp. Therefore SD is of no consequence, except nostalgia for WCW fans in a way.

I'd also get rid of the IC belt - Its a famous piece of history, but its been raped in recent years, and hardly ever gets on a PPV. Judgement Day, its not even on the line. I'd set up a unification belt with the US title (belt v belt), and obviously book the US title holder to win and thereby 'retire' the IC belt.

On Raw, i'd have the WWE Championship, the WHC, the US Title and the World Tag Team Gold. The WWE Championship would be the brand promotional title and the WHC would be main 'wrestling' championship.

The Womens title i'd move to ECW together with the WWE Tag Titles (renamed to ECW Tag Titles). ECW Championship of course is the premier title.

Three-fifths of the roster would be on Raw, while the rest would be on ECW. Best way for ECW to get ratings is to keep women's wrestling there and make it more extreme.

Oh, and get rid of all the Duggans and the like.

Basically, there are too few wrestlers for three brands, but more than enough for two.
 
If there are enough wrestlers for two brands, why is Batista fighting a Raw guy for the THIRD time in FOUR PPV's? There are plenty of guys on Raw who Flair influenced that could be Batista in this story. But, they have to use SD!'s second face. Give me a fucking break.

Neither company has enough guys to properly fill out a card with heel/face matches. HHH and Cena fight each other, Batista has to fight face HBK and face Y2J time and time and time again. A couple of turns at the top of the card don't help either because the balance will still be off, just the other way. You can't just elevate someone because the undercard cupboard is bare.

Combining the brands allows for turns, elevations, and balance. MVP can move up in combined brands because he won't have to be the ENTIRE heel portion of the midcard on SD!. Heel Batista and heel Edge would destroy Taker, and no one could be elevated to help him because the only guy worthy of being moved up is a heel, MVP, but like I said he is anchoring the midcard. This brandsplit has led to limited stories and feuds. Ending it opens up such an opportunity to everyone. HHH is far less likely to hold anyone down at this point too. His best friend is the ultimate guy at putting someone over (HBK), so he sees that it won't hurt his legacy. Plus, during his first few title runs he was fucking the bosses daughter. Now the WWE is his inheritance. I'm sure he wants to maintain its relevance well beyond his career.
 
i agree with el matador. I think brand separation is a good thing, and want them to stay separated. Some cross promotions are fine, but in general i think it's better to have separate shows. My main reasons (some of which have been mentioned previously) are as follows:

1. Combining would have too much clustering around the titles. With only 1 main title, 1 mid title, 1 tag team just doesn't seem enough for the number of wrestlers.

2. Stories/feuds. With the way it is now, stories and feuds build on a weekly basis. If the shows were combined, then they would have to continue to build every show for them to make sense. If they weren't, then they might as well have 2 separate shows.

3. In order to give the number of wrestlers something to do, we'd see a lot more thrown together impromptu teams. some may see this as a positive, but it seems like on both raw and smackdown, we already don't see a whole lot of 1 on 1 matches, most are teams thrown together based on something that happened at the beginning of the show. If the brand split ended, pure 1 on 1 matches would become even more of an endangered species.

4. From an administrative standpoint, a brand split gives the wrestlers on the opposite show a night off. Considering how busy their schedules are, they probably appreciate only having to be on TV once a week.

5. Seeing the same wrestler/wrestlers on every show would wear out their welcome quickly. For example, I like the undertaker as much as anyone, but would i really want to see him every show? No. Spacing things out prevents specific wrestlers from becoming stale.

I'm sure there are other reasons if I thought about it more. I'm not saying that the brand split is a perfect solution, but I think ending it would raise more problems than it would solve.
 
The number one reason the WWE refuses to end this dumbass split is that they have two touring companies, and the house show division of the company is the most profitable it has ever been.

If the current state of the WWE reminds you of the 90's you are too kind, or too stoned to remember correctly. First of all ratings are less than half of what they were at the peak of the wars. Secondly, the only reason they remind you of the 90's is that the same guys are at the top of the cards. If you discontinue the split, the younger guys get to work with the vets. The vets will get pushed harder, and the youngins will get seasoning. The talent pool is dilluted. There are a lot of top guys, and alot of bottom guys. The only true midcardsers are Matt Hardy and MVP. Everyone else is either in the world title match rotation or Jamie Noble. If you combine the brands, there can be a midcard. People can get moved down. Others, up. An MVP/Cena feud would be good, a Matt Hardy HBK feud would be entertaining. Kane and CM Punk fighting Batista and Carlito would be great fun. Saying JBL and Cena will never accept demotions is stupid. Let em go make a quarter of the money in TNA and elevate MVP. Remember, the best Rock and HHH matches were IC level, not WHC level.

Smackdown is nothing like WCW. First of all, teh top heel faction doesn't control the show. Vickie has yet to just PUT the belt on Edge. Chavo won't beat Taker and then job out in the "finger poke of doom II." TNA is more like WCW in the 90's. Mainly because the guys at the top of the card, Booker, Steiner, Sting, are the same. The X division is like the cruisers. SD!, beyond Taker and Edge and Matt Hardy and MVP and Kane is shit. MooreWang is a fun team. Jesse and Festus don't suck, but if that's the best I can say, then.......

The state of the business is shit. Raw has so much potential at the top of the card, but there is only so many times Hardcore Holly should be on TV. (That number is 0, by the way.) Putting MVP and Matt Hardy on the Raw roster is what WWE needs to at least appease the hardcore fans. That opens up exciting feuds. If you add Taker, Edge, Batista, Kane, and Rey, you have an awesome show, top to bottom. You could even have, gasp, non title feuds. The belts seem like props instead of cherished goals. If two guys are feuding over something other than the belts, you get that reality back to the show. I think that Batista and HBK's feud is an example of that. The promos are intense and all bets are off. Orton and HHH just seems contrived. Hey guys, we can't think of anything, so have the same match for the 12th time, this time in a pool of gators, and next time, on Jupiter.
 
The system should work that this. There should be 2 brands Raw and Smackdown, ECW should fold. The rosters should be divided evenly and once divided the superstars stay on their respective shows. Exclusive talent remain exclusive. No more random people jumping around. There should be one world title and one tag title and these are the ONLY superstars who go to both brands. This will especially help the tag division to have more depth and will add prestige to the titles and make them seem more important. In terms of the world title we will no longer be getting the same world title matches at every pay per view. Now that the ONE world champion is going between both shows world title matches at pay per views with alternate between both shows and it will help to keep things fresh and it will help to build up matches more. Its pretty simple to figure out really.

Also, there should be a greater distinction between the two brands themselves. They should each have a completely different look with completely different production teams. Instead of having one website(wwe.com) there should be two seperate web sites one for raw and one for smackdown. These are just a few ideas i had. Thoughts?
 
The damn brand split should have ended half a decade ago. It's a 2002 angle gone wrong and a philosophy that confuses the casual fan, leads to repetitive angles and booking, and too many championships of the same value, which devalues each title and eventually waters down the product of each brand. (3 world championships, 2 mid card championships, 2 womens championships, two tag team championships, no low card championship). What is what and who is who and does this mean anything? It was an intriguing idea at the beginning, but it shouldn't have become the central component of the company's long-term business model. What began as a power struggle storyline between Ric Flair and Vince McMahon in early 2002 has grown into a 3 brand cluster with confusion from every direction and no identity to speak of that defines each brand. ECW is hardly relevant and it's pretty much a slap in the face to what ECW truly stood for during the years it operated as a company under Heyman. ECW is simply a watered down version of both Smackdown and RAW; nothing more and nothing less. Smackdown is the B Show that some fans simply skip due to pre-tape early in the week. Although I believe that it's more intriguing than RAW and its characters are more defined, it's difficult to convince another fan that especially when most don't care enough to watch the show consistently. RAW, has improved with the addition of Punk as Champion, Kofi Kingston as the Intercontinental Champion, and a proven Michael Cole as the play-by-play announcer, but it's only a matter of time before Cena or Batista take the title and we're back on the same track where the same guys that we've seen at the top for years are on top again. I hope I'm wrong. Plus, when was the last time RAW had a General Manager and why was Vince in charge of the brand to begin with? Questions that still haven't been answered yet.

It was an illusion of competition that never panned out, which should have been obvious from the start. Earlier in this thread, I've read that ending the split would put several low carders in a position of being cut, well that's true, but most of those guys aren't being pushed anyway and are just floundering in each brand with really nothing to do on tv. Those guys are only slightly useful to the E in dark matches and house shows. If most mid-carders aren't being pushed as we know they could, then the status of the lower card performers are even worse. No Cruiserweight Championship, European Championship, or Hardcore Championship anymore to place some value for your low card position and give something for those low card performers to strive for in the company. Overall, the low card position in either brand is undefined.

My thoughts haven't changed since day one when this began. The company survived 40 years under one brand, one roster. Their biggest financial periods in terms of gross income increments occurred when there was one brand, one roster. There's no reason why they can't succeed at it again. Keep it simple stupid.
 
It's so easy to say that WWE should get rid of SMACKDOWN and concentrate on the A show which is RAW but the hard thing is to find a solution to get both shows going.

ECW definitely has to dissolve.

Anyone who wants to get rid of SMACKDOWN must not have been watching SD since the brand split. It was the A show then and RAW was the B show.

SMACKDOWN at the time had Hulk Hogan, The Rock, Triple H, Chris Jericho, Edge, Kurt Angle and many more. And even when Triple H moved to RAW later in the year, he was replaced by Undertaker who is an even bigger star. SMACKDOWN later on also got Brock Lesnar, Big Show and Rey Mysterio to further boost their roster.

RAW only became the A show when the f***ing USA/WWE deal was reached and soon after, they moved Cena and Kurt Angle to RAW.

Now, the solution to get both brands going is to keep seperate Tag Titles, Mid Card Titles and Low Card Titles but unify the WWE and WHC and go with a single champion on both shows like they did in 2002/2003. They also should be having a single Womens Title to be used on both shows.

I know it won't be easy for the Undisputed Champion to work both shows so the solution to that would be to give the Champion (and whoever else is working two shows) the rest of the week off which means no house shows for them.

The company must choose their priority. Is it going to be the house shows or the main shows?
 
to get rid of smackdown is like saying that hbk should of beaten brett clean at survivor series. it just shouldn't of happened. ecw is the shit show so get rid of that move the good people e.g matt hardy mark henry and all that to raw and smackdown. i ebt u any money that smackdown will be the a show in 8 months . i mean look at their roster. hhh, edge, mvp, jeff hardy, kennedy, finlay and i bet undertaker comes back if he doesn't do that biker gimmick again. their is a A show right their. i would only get rid of ecw
 
that can never happen there are too many wrestlers in the wwe and a lot of wrestlers wouldnt be on tv for a long time, and that doesnt help other wrestlers that barely get on tv these days anyway
 
People say end the brandsplit but i don't see why should they end it

1. There are just to many wrestlers to have one brand like the old days. All though it was easy on the wrestlers the company has expanded since then with alot more mid-carders, so more people get a shot.

2. They make alot more money with the brand split. Smackdown can do a show in Texas and get a $100,000 gate while Raw can do a show in California and get maybe a $200,000 gate being that they're the A-Show. I wouldn't be surprised if ECW started going solo.

3. More people get a chance to be on the main roster. It also gives them a chance to some what push new stars regardless if they do they always have a chance if they want to. i.e. CM Punk
 
Thats what i'm saying why end the brand split when they are making more money off of it and also it gives alot of stars a chance. If they end it most of the stars will be buried by HHH and them and will not be giving a chance and the shows will be even shittier. Not to mention stars will ge hurt after wrestling alot.
 
People say end the brandsplit but i don't see why should they end it

1. There are just to many wrestlers to have one brand like the old days. All though it was easy on the wrestlers the company has expanded since then with alot more mid-carders, so more people get a shot.

2. They make alot more money with the brand split. Smackdown can do a show in Texas and get a $100,000 gate while Raw can do a show in California and get maybe a $200,000 gate being that they're the A-Show. I wouldn't be surprised if ECW started going solo.

3. More people get a chance to be on the main roster. It also gives them a chance to some what push new stars regardless if they do they always have a chance if they want to. i.e. CM Punk

I see what your saying, however with a combined roster, they could do a combined show at a bigger arena and sell it out and make that kind of money.

How many times at Raw and Smackdown do you see half of the upper deck tarped off? That never happened in the good ol' days.

Smackdown for example, just looks awful to watch on telly, with the crappy blue light over the audience, just further trying to hide the fact that at an arena that holds prob 7,000 people, 4,000 have turned up.

I would like to see it going back to the days when Raw and Smackdown would sell out 15,000 seater arenas every week. With all the star power turning up at every show, that could definitely happen.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
174,846
Messages
3,300,837
Members
21,727
Latest member
alvarosamaniego
Back
Top