Is Christian the greatest "Marty Jannetty" of all-time?

[Lord_Frish]

I think most people here are trying, for the most part unsuccessfully, to criticize the way the term "Jannetty" is being used in this thread. I don't think that anyone is disagreeing with the idea that Christian was the lesser of the tag team of E&C. They just see the term "Jannetty" as meaning a member of a tag team who almost completely bombed after the split of the tag team. The person who made the thead is defining "Jannetty" as the less successful member of a tag team. Which no one has any doubt about.

Personally to me, the term "Jannetty" refers to someone who no one really remembers outside of the tag team. In which case I don't think Christian falls into that category. But under the definition used in this thread I would say Christian is the most successful.

To the guy who mentioned Scott Hall. He was successful before the Outsiders which makes me feel it is unfair to include him in the list but the definition of a "Jannetty" is pretty flaky to begin with as this thread has indicated. Scott Hall definitely was not as successful as Kevin Nash was though.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

Sorry, you're right, I didn't quite read the first post. I kind of just assumed from the title. Brain pretty much said it best: Christian > Jannetty, but they are both less successful than their former tag team partners.

So as far far as if Christian is the ultimate "Jannetty" he's got to be pretty far up on that list. Bully Ray is making strides in TNA, while Devon continues to not matter at all, but since they worked as a tag team for the past two decades I don't think the rule applies to them.

I might consider Jim Neidhart as well. Not that he wasn't successful, he just didn't go very far in WWF without Bret, who went on to become one of the greatest stars of all time. Better than Edge, some might say. Jeff Hardy was easily more over than Matt Hardy. But Jeff also never stayed on top, or was nearly as meaningful to the WWE main event scene, as Edge was. Christian is arguably better than Matt Hardy, so there's another case to be made there.

But I'd say, considering there's very little objectivity about this, you may be right. Christian is probably the biggest Jannetty in history. Except for one guy... Marty Jannetty, who was the single biggest Jannetty of all time. Nobody, not Edge, Jeff or the Undertaker, was as good, or as meaningful to the history of the WWE like Shawn Michaels. So I think, Marty Jannetty actually deserves to the win his own award here.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Ehm, I don't quite recall Jim Neidhart going on to do anything of significance to be honest, while Bret Hart was the face of the WWE in a time when being in the WWE wasn't all that special because after the steroid scandal the roster was pretty thin and hadn't many stars. Bret would go on to win multiple World titles, had already several singles titles under his belts, others when he went to WCW, while Jim never really recovered from the split of The Hart Foundation.

So, lets look at Christian. For one, I think you're forgetting WWE offered him a new deal when he left in 2005, he rejected it. He wanted to go to TNA. And it was the right decision. While Edge made a great heel on Raw during that time and had his feuds with John Cena, Matt Hardy, Kane, Ric Flair and whoever else, Christian was having great match after great match after great match in TNA, which earned him the respect of a lot of fans who before that, didn't really respect him.

Is he the Jannetty of the team? Yeah, sadly, as someone who much prefers Christian to Edge I hate to say it but he is, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing when you look at Edge's list of accomplishments. And it's not like Christian is a slouch, why wasn't he pushed more than Edge? Will never truly know. I think Edge was just there at the right time and had the right idea for a character, not to mention the whole Lita thing helped him a lot.

Either way, I'll always prefer Christian. Better wrestler, enjoyed his career much more, found his work more entertaining because Edge did a lot of shock-rock stuff such as the live sex celebration while Christian was just the really good and often funny wrestler.

 

[S.J. Maximus]

I find it completely insulting to put Christian in the same group as the "Jannetty"s you have named and as Marty Jannetty himself. Christian's accolades speak for themselves, he has held the tag titles more than anyone in the history of WWE besides like 3 guys (Edge, Kane, and Billy Gunn I believe) can boast to being one of the few grand slam champions in history (World title, IC title, European, Tag Team Title). As a matter of fact, he probably will be the last grand slam champion (since the European title was made defunct years ago) which is a solid accolade to go with his 2 WHC reigns and 4 Intercontinental reigns.

In my opinion, Christian is easily one of the most successful stars of all-time, therefore he is not a "Jannetty" but he's simply a "Christian", a guy who was able to continue achieving after breaking up. I think the assertion that Edge is so much better than him can be argued, because in the end it was Vince/Creative who decided to give Edge the edge (no pun intended) over Christian, but they both were very charistmatic people with near flawless in-ring ability

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The comparison to Marty Jannetty I'm not sure I get... the only thing similar between Marty and Christian is that they were both the second fiddle in their tag team, but Christians success as a singles wrestler is miles beyond Marty's.

So if you are asking "who was the greatest tag team star to break off as a singles star but be the lesser member of their tag team"? Then maybe.

This is the misconception. Jannetty was NEVER the weaker of the two Rockers, in fact he was very much portrayed as the more experienced captain of the team, more likely to succeed in the long term. Two things hurt him badly to turn his career.

The Charles Austin incident, where Marty was deemed to have broken a jobbers neck with the Rocker Dropper (despite the botch being with Austin taking a flip rather than a faceplant) was clearly an accident, but it cost WWE huge money ($26.7m) although the judgement wasn't settled till a few years later, after...

Shawn made his first "screwjob" by blatantly lying to Vince about events around their Royal Rumble match in 93. The match had gone down a storm on the circuit but Vince had decided for the PPV to throw Sherri, in and radically alter the dynamic. Janetty clearly hurt his shoulder during the match, Heenan even commenting you could see the bump where it had potentially dislocated. Vince was disappointed in the pair of them but kind of understood that Janetty had been hurt, until Shawn got in his ear and said Marty had been partying all night and was still drunk.

Vince immediately fired Jannetty... which many saw as harsh, and he didn't take it well, starting his cycle of partying. The saving grace came via an unlikely source, Curt Hennig heard of what had occured and Shawn admitted he had lied. Perfect went straight to Vince and told him, and Marty was given one of the few "Billy Martin's" in WWE History (for those who don't know being reinistated as if nothing had happened, with a bonus for inconvenience) and got his IC reign in that famous return... Was Marty mad, sure, did he potato Shawn a bit, sure... but it again made for a great segment and started Marty's IC reign off strong.

Sadly, by then he was into his self destruct mode mainly out of guilt over the Austin thing and when the judgement came in the plug was pulled quickly - he was given more chances but he couldn't live up to it... When the Rocker's finally reunited during Shawn's feud with Kurt Angle, there was talk of them (from Shawn of all people, who looked like he had the best time he had had in years during that match) making a run of it, and Marty was clearly in good shape and over... but for whatever reason they didn't go there and his trainer job was also quickly rescinded...He was consigned to this insulting thing where people say "The Marty Jannetty of a team".

The guy had the IC title and the Tag titles post Rockers, more than the team had.

Christian is not a "Marty Jannetty of the team", nor was Marty Jannetty, who had a respectable, short mid card career and several stints as a lower midcard/opener. That's more than a Koko B. Ware and more than Rocky Johnson, Tony Atlast, Tony Garea, Jim Duggan or Jimmy Snuka achieved for the HOF.

Christian was always a top talent, who spent some time after the split of E&C building momentum in the mid-card, he was always pushed, always given tag and IC titles and most importantly, patient. When Vince balking at pulling the trigger on a main event push against Cena coincided with his contract expiring, he did the extra couple of nights required to end his storyline rather than the Lex Luger path to TNA. When he went to TNA and was given that push, he didn't waste it or get in trouble backstage, he was professional, raised his and TNA's profile and then was welcomed back to the E in a role to reflect his achievements.

Had Edge not had to retire, would he have gotten the World title? Probably not or if so it would have been a short reign, but he didn't get it as an Edge "replacement", the "Shawn of the team's" retirement simply opened up a spot that he was in line to take due to his hard work and popularity.

You don't here about Jay Reso getting DUI's or divorcing/having affairs or other things that bring WWE into disrepute... he even went to a TNA show he didn't want to go to cos it helped the E get Flair back for a night. He took one for the team... you hear that he's a well loved guy by the fans and locker room, does the job without complaints but is ready to step up and steal the show whenever he gets the chance. For Janetty you also hear that about him, but he had his demons and he couldn't beat them. That's stil a Hall Of Famer through and through however... Janetty could have been what Christian had a couple of bad things not gone wrong right at the start.

If you want to use tag wrestlers who never lived up to the hype then say the "Tony Atlas" of the Soul Patrol, the Brutus of the Dream Team or the Crush of Demolition... the're all FAR more accurate than using Jannetty and comparing Christian to any of those guys is downright offensive.

 

[SD619]

A question for those who have been watching wrestling longer that I have: Weren't Sting and Warrior a tag team? I am not particularly sure who I would classify as the "Jannetty" of that team, but both have accomplished more than Christian.

Other than them, I think of all the "Jannetty" of tag teams, Christian has a claim to be the best.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

People don't remember Jannetty? But they remember and rave about him being thrown through the window as being a classic moment/best heel turn ever... They don't remember him but his returns through the crowd were what The Shield do now week in week out... He played a major role in getting Nash and Waltman into their careers...and without him Shawn never goes anywhere as he was a vanilla midget with an attitude problem...Marty kept him straight long enough to show his potential.

Good call on Neidhart, in truth he did far less than Marty did, was let go almost as many times and was even given the indignity of wrestling once was WHO? Marty at least was allowed to be himself even in the New Rockers (ugh).

That people are arguing the semantics for the thread is sad... 20 years ago he'd only just dropped the belt back to Shawn, that he did't have long term success is immaterial in as 93 to 94 he was pushed as strongly as Shawn was.

Warrior had the inferior career of the Blade Runners, his success lasted four years total with two short stints after... Sting has been a top name since the day they split,25 years plus ago!!!

I get people will look at a tag team and always compare, just stop referring to Jannetty as meaning lesser... He did more in a short space of time than most former tag guys of his era managed in years after their team split... No wonder the guy drinks with this kind of shit on top of eveyrything else lol.

Look at it coldly, how many tag guys of The Rocker's era actually made it to the highest level? Bret, Shawn, Simmons, Sting... Those were the ones who carried a company. Scott Steiner and Booker would be closest after that... And then no one... Look at the talented guys who couldn't translate to successful solo careers like The LOD, Barry Darsow and Crush, Dynamite Kid, Mike Rotundo, Rick Steiner, Stevie Ray, Buff Bagwell, Hercules, Warlord, Barbarian, Bloom and Enos and Samu...

Forget Outsiders and their like, their WCW team was so brief that it was immaterial, their success together came from their solo stints.

Both Marty and Christian have strong solo careers, one peaked quickly but had a lot of success in that time, the other was a slow burn... But both did better than all those guys... If it's about wasted potential go with Warlord, if it's less success solo, use Animal... Far more accurate.

 

[shalliin]

People don't remember Jannetty? But they remember and rave about him being thrown through the window as being a classic moment/best heel turn ever... They don't remember him but his returns through the crowd were what The Shield do now week in week out... He played a major role in getting Nash and Waltman into their careers...and without him Shawn never goes anywhere as he was a vanilla midget with an attitude problem...Marty kept him straight long enough to show his potential.

Actually, aside from the Heartbreak Hotel segment, most people now don't remember his multiple returns/firings until he himself brings them up. The only other time they remember him being around after the feud from the break up is when he tried to reform the rockers as the New Rockers with the badly named Leif Ericson or Cassidy or something like that(wasn't it al snow? i don't remember)
Ask 100 random fans and maybe 2 or 3 remember Jannety for anything other then those moments and that his name has itself become used the way it is to describe the lesser talent of a disbanded tag team. And I've never heard of him having anything to do with Nash or Waltman getting into the biz, but if he did, shame on him. Nash is almost forgivable, but bringing Waltman into the public eye is inexcusable. I still have nightmares about his matches and entrances.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

I dont see Christian as a main eventer in any sense of the word. He doesn't hold enough of the IT factors that make a wrestler a credible champion / star. His build and look is boring, ever since he cut his hair. He doesn't have the mic skills, he doesn't have the "charisma" that the wwe claims and he simply does not belong in the WHC picture.

A few things that are arguable with that statement ... first is the IT factor, in any given point in time anyone can hold the World Title. If you look at guys like The Miz, Chris Benoit or Yokozuna both guys aren't really the 100% complete package but a good story or angle can make them believable World Champions.

Second is the Mic Skills ... in the E&C Days. When they were the one of the most over tag teams in the Attitude Era. Christian carried most of the Mic work than Edge. Christian was the one was the one agitating the crowd and the crowd ate it up.

Third is Charisma, I say Christian has enough that he got himself over for the past years. 2004 and 2005 were the best examples, he never got the 100% backing from creative but he was able to step toe to toe with guys like Cena and Jericho in feuds and angles. Even at one point was more over than Edge.