Is anyone else dissapointed by Jeff and RVD's last few matches?

[KKarvox]

I'm sorry if it's just me, but does anyone think that Jeff Hardy and RVD' ringwork in TNA has been somewhat sub-par? I don't know if it's just my imagination, or perhaps it was their opponents, but they just didn't seem to be on par with some of the great matches i've seen out of both men.

Starting with RVD's match against James Storm the other week. RVD seemed extremely slow during the match, not painfully so, and it wasn't a bad match per se, but I expected a much more exciting and high paced match. Granted i've only watched Impact for the last few weeks at it's 8 o'clock start time, so i haven't seen much of James Storm's work, so it could easily be him that made the match seem slow.

However, Jeff Hardy's match against Robert Roode this previous Monday looked down right bad to me. I'm a huge mark for Jeff, and I was pretty excited when i switched to Impact from Raw and saw him coming out, but then i saw his match. It was slow, sloppy, and he relied almost completely on his signature moves, one after another. That wouldn't bother me so much, but he also didn't seem at all into the match, and he looks kind of out of shape, granted, he has been somewhat out of shape for a couple of years, but you don't notice it as much until he takes his shirt off.

But what do you guys think? Am i just being to harsh, or do both of them, mainly Jeff, seem to have lost a few steps in the ring?

 

[Coco]

Hardy and Van Dam were both getting slow during their last few years in the WWE and have both had a predilection for botching over the years. So yes, I'd say you're being too harsh. If you were expecting RVD to cut a pace like he did in 1999 or Hardy to look like he does when he has Punk of Triple H to make him look good, it's clear that you were way off base to begin with.

 

[Fan_of_Wrestling]

Yeah I get what you're getting at... but I do think your being harsh... I mean we haven't seen them in a decent feud or a match that means anything... no PPV main events or anything like that. I think they'll both pic up the pace when they are given more matches and more time.

P.S. Coco... good point this aint 1999. Not to mention that RVD hasn't been wrestling regular enough in recent years. Same can be said for Hardy, neither man seem to be the kind of guys that will work hard backstage to get rid of ring rust before they debut in TNA. It might be worth seeing if they get better with a few more matches in TNA.

 

[klunderbunker]

Van Dam is 39 years old. The pace he's setting now is a rather average one but for someone of his age it's damn good. 11-12 years ago when he was in ECW he was one of the most exciting guys in the world to watch because he was incredibly fast. You also have to keep in mind that for a few years he's been on the indy scene or just not wrestling meaning he's not likely in the most rigorous shape. You can run on a treadmill all you want but it's not like being in a ring. Throw in the more or less once a week schedule on TNA and it's not surprising that he's not as quick as he used to be.

 

[mont3818]

I always thought Jeff Hardy was a horrible wrestler. He's exciting and popular, but really sloppy and he half-asses it in the ring. I'm not suprised there, I'm just glad more of you are starting to notice. And RVD is usually great. But wow I'm suprised he's 39! So I guess thats to be expected. Poor dude. I wanna see him have at least a couple good matches in TNA.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Hardy has always been trashy and slow. I actually thought he was better now than he was in WWE, but maybe that's just me. I like the matches. They weren't bad but weren't good either. Hardy's horrible though. Not his fault too, I think he's PRETTY banged up.

As far as RVD goes, he's got a reason. He's not that young anymore and it's understandable. Still good though.

Also, I don't think the matches were important enough for them to amp it up and everything. You know how wrestlers are, if the match is important they're twice as good. These were just tiny little matches.

 

[16mikeytot]

Hardy has always been trashy and slow. I actually thought he was better now than he was in WWE, but maybe that's just me. I like the matches. They weren't bad but weren't good either. Hardy's horrible though. Not his fault too, I think he's PRETTY banged up.
As far as RVD goes, he's got a reason. He's not that young anymore and it's understandable. Still good though. Also, I don't think the matches were important enough for them to amp it up and everything. You know how wrestlers are, if the match is important they're twice as good. These were just tiny little matches.

How has hardy always been horrible? He was great in his tlc matches, against Punk, Morrison, and Edge. But to the subject of Hardy slowing down I believe Jeff isn't as interested in Tna matches as he was in wwe matches just saying. As for RVD I'd say age is the factor and he claims to smoke weed so maybe the weed is slowing him down.

 

[beefthelegend]

It was slow, sloppy, and he relied almost completely on his signature moves, one after another. That wouldn't bother me so much, but he also didn't seem at all into the match, and he looks kind of out of shape, granted, he has been somewhat out of shape for a couple of years

So what you are saying is that it was typical Jeff Hardy then?

Sorry....i couldn't resist. But he's always been god-awful. I don't know how he got so over...but TNA is botching capitalizing on that, so...yeah. No surprise there. They;ve botched the momentum that Angle, Christian, Hardy (the first time), Samoa Joe (from ROH), Hogan (the first AND second time), Flair, Booker, Anderson, Rhyno...yeah, i think that sums it up nicely.

They did alright with the Dudleyz. I suppose.

But on topic: Yes, it is no surprise to see those two running out of gas. RVD hasn't wrestled significantly in about 3 years, and Jeff...well....Jeff was never very crisp-as it were. But now they are getting older. And slowing down is to be expected. It's not like they are Hogan or Flair slow. But as fan_of_wrestling said, both have a predilection towards botches anyway.

Give it another 6 months, and then you can accurately judge them.

 

[The Poster]

am i the only one who always thought rob van dam was overrated? he botches a half a dozen moves every match he has, and its always been that way. in old school ECW, no one really gave a crap, including me, but things change. he cant get away with the same stuff in WWE and TNA that he did in the old ECW. and now he's what? 40 something? cant say im too surprised to hear he's a bit slower.

 

[The Sparks]

The allure of both of these guys has never been technical wrestling. It has always been high spots, inovative moves and their unique characteristics. Have there matches in TNA been bad? Yes they have because they are working with sub-par wrestlers compared to when they were in WWE. Compile that with age, ring rust and a lack of big-stage atmosphere and it will come to less than par work. I think the biggest factor is booking. Vince McMahon knew how to book Jeff Hardy. Hogan and Bischoff have no clue and that makes a differnce. Paul Heyman knew how to book RVD and McMahon was starting to learn before RVD let the weed screw that up, Hogan and Bischoff have no clue how to use him now. Things may and probably will change for them in the future as Eazy E and the Huckster (meant to leave the L out) learn more about the 2, but how much is hard to say. Give it time and keep an open mind but do not expect the RVD of ECW/WWE or the Hardy of the last 3 years.

 

[Alex_U]

RVD and Hardy are very entertaining in the ring, they create a feel to each match, but sorry to say, they aren't what they used to be. I am a HUGE mark for RVD, but I will say that since returning to wrestling since his WWE days, and I mean when he was Champ, has been hard to watch. Even when he made guest appearances he was..... Simply bad. He's moves are getting worse and worse as the years go by. Like for example his spin kick., where the opponent catches his leg and he turns to kick them, it takes over 5 seconds for that move to be done, back in the day it was less than 2. He is getting older, but he is still entertaining. He can sell moves like no other. Also, given the ring in TNA is 16'x16' and the ring in the WWE is 20'x20' there isn't as much room for them to perform there High-Risk moves. Yes I know the x-division does it, but after you have perfected your skills in a larger ring it’s hard to adjust, or at least I would assume it would be. RVD will one day soon, be back to the standards that his fans have come to expect. He probably knows that he looks lack-luster in the ring, and I would hope he could fix this problem, before Hulk or Eric does.

Now Jeff....... poor Jeff. The man looks horrible. He still has his look going for him, but he is out of shape, slow in the ring, and relies too much on his signature moves to create excitement in his matches. I think the problem is, he was never that great of a WRESTLER. The only matches people remember him in are TLC, Ladder and other matches that had stipulations. He is nothing more that an over-glorified stunt man (Kind like Bam Margera, no one really likes him but he is entertaining to watch)

Also, something to think about, Yes they both signed on for TNA but do you think this is where they saw themselves starting there? Teaming together, look at Jeff’s face when he is celebrating in the ring. For instance, when Eric Young made them his TT partner, Jeff looked unimpressed and disappointed. Maybe he expected more and is waiting to be used correctly to use his full potential.

All I can say is I am happy nun-the-less to see RVD in the ring again, regardless if it is his best work or not.

 

[wushady]

I'm not disappointed with RVD at all he hasn't been wrestling full time in a few years. He's pushing 40 also of course he's going to slow down a bit, but he still has it. I've been more disappointed in the way TNA has used him than in his performance.

Hardy on the other hand I feel has been sloppy for a while now. Long before he left WWE I stopped enjoying his matches. He's hugely popular and can do some high spots. Other than that I don't expect much out of his matches.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

RVD has most definitely lost a step, but that is too be expected when you are 39, going on 40 years old. Especially with his specific style. Guys like HHH and Undertaker can wrestle into their 40's for a few reasons. 1. They stay in good shape. They work in the ring and gym year round, and I'm not sure RVD does the same (lately). 2. They work at a much slower, methodical pace. Their style fits that of a 23 year old wrestler, or a 50 year old wrestler. RVD relies upon speed, which he doesn't have as much of anymore.

Jeff Hardy is an entirely different deal. While he relies upon speed as well, I don't think his age (32) has a lot to do with it. He has a lot of miles on him, he's been wrestling for a long, long time (his first WWF match was in 1994). But I think theres a lot more to it.

I watch Jeff Hardy, right now, and I honestly think he's high in there. I think he comes to work all F***ED up. I may be wrong, but he just looks messed up. I look at the guys eyes, and wonder what he is on. I could be 100% wrong, but I just get that feeling that he is in a really bad place in his life right now.

So I think we are seeing just about all we are going to see from a nearly 40 year old Vad Dam, and that is still better than half of the guys on tv today. But with Hardy, I think we are seeing a guy who doesn't care about anything anymore. He's there because he needs a job. I'm not sure what TNA's drug testing policy is, but they need one. This guy just looks unhealthy to me.

 

[Woooooo]

how can you see in hardy's eyes that he is f'd up, he wears crazy colored contacts. and why is RVD getting hate for being a midnight toker? They are athletes that put their bodies through way more than average people and if he wants to smoke to relax himself, then let him blaze away. i thought RVD's counterculture persona was a good deal of his appeal. i think like a couple people pointed out, its both ring rust and anti-climatic booking. not to mention that hardy doesnt put on a good show til ppv's.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I wouldn't necessarily say that I'm disappointed. The matches haven't been the full on epics that I'm sure many TNA fans were expecting for some strange reason, but they've been pretty good, solid matches. I think that the expectations of some fans are simply too unrealistic.

Rob Van Dam is looking down the barrel of 40 years of age and he was barely been inside of a wrestling ring for well over 3 years before he made his return to TNA. Some ring rust is to be expected and RVD just can't be expected to be quite as agile and fast as he was 15 years ago. Van Dam is still in great shape and still very athletic, it's just that he seemed to be nearly superhumanly athletic once upon a time. RVD has been known for a fast paced, high spot offense and that style in and of itself can be something of a curse when one gets older. Rey Mysterio is someone that's had to alter his ring moveset to some degree and some say he's a better overall wrestler now than he ever was. I think some have reveled a bit too much in RVD's past glories inside the ring and are having trouble facing the here and now.

My only real complaints about RVD and Jeff Hardy involves the way that TNA's booked them since their arrival. With the exception of Hulk Hogan, Hardy and RVD are TNA's two biggest aquisitions since Kurt Angle and TNA hasn't really done all that much with them. They've been paired up as a team but they're nowhere near the tag title scene, they've been used to give Eric Young a rub and that's something that not a whole lot of people are buying as Young is light years behind either one of them. I don't think a lot of people will be all that satisfied unless either or both wind up as serious contenders for the X Division or TNA World titles. Their names and talent, at this point, have been wasted in TNA in my opinion.

 

[Lyson Rayne]

This is just an idea, but maybe neither man feels like it right now? I mean I agree with alot of the other posters about neither man being too technically sound and the influence of age, but look at how RVD and Hardy have been booked. How can they possibly be into their positions as Hogan's random teammates? Their matches havn't been too memorable as of late, but hopefully once they break off and actually have characters and feuds, not just assumed personas developed in another company, they'll have the desire to put on great matches. Bad example, but it's alot like when you're watching a match. If it's boring, or not built up at all, seemingly a filler to draw ratings purely from a certain competitor's popularity, then you'll pay half attention to it and unless it realy picks up the pace, you'll stay half entertained. However, when the opposite occurs you'll watch every move, every spot, every punch, because you're wrapped up in the story, and the match i.e. suspended disbelief. If Hardy and RVD aren't into their current set-up, they aren't going to go 100% unless their job depends on it, but come on, they're not getting fied anytime soon, its fucking RVD and Jeff Hardy.

 

[Caitiff]

How has hardy always been horrible? He was great in his tlc matches, against Punk, Morrison, and Edge. But to the subject of Hardy slowing down I believe Jeff isn't as interested in Tna matches as he was in wwe matches just saying. As for RVD I'd say age is the factor and he claims to smoke weed so maybe the weed is slowing him down.

So, the fact that someone is mildly entertaining in a spotfest means that he's a good wrestler? By that logic, the Public Enemy is on par with the Hart Foundation.

Jeff Hardy is, in my opinion, the single most overrated wrestler in the last decade. Even more than Cena. Even more than Batista. Don't get me wrong. Jeff Hardy has that "it" factor that makes people want to pay attention. But, that does not translate to quality in ring work. Has nobody paid attention to Hulk Hogan in this regard?

 

[KKarvox]

Alright, i'll admit i was a little off-base on RVD, given his age, but Hardy seems have less of an excuse. He seems like is is still burned out, and if he is, why would he even return to the ring yet? His mind seems to be other places, which is understandable, but he is supposed to be a top star, and he has put on far better matches. It's seems to me he could care less, and that he is only there for the paycheck.

I didn't mean to offend anyone, but I was just a little disappointed with their last few matches, granted i'll take back what i said in terms of RVD. My expectations were somewhat high given the way they have been talked up lately.

 

[3,000 Pound Gorrilla]

Both Jeff Hardy, and to a slightly lesser extent RVD, have always been spot-monkeys. They both have relied on a few moves that are flashy (whisper in the wind, rolling thunder, etc.) and never really been super technical wrestlers. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing Jeff throw himself off 700 foot ladders and RVD drop kick a chair into someone's face from across the ring. But, they are getting older, and their bodies can no longer keep up with the pace they set for themselves when they were younger. It may still be a bit early to judge, because both men have not been wrestling solid schedules for a while now, but I think Jeff may be the only one to get it almost all the way together. RVD is on the down slope of his career, and you can't get your "quick" back, they way you can get your muscles back or lose a few pounds. So, I say give 'em time, see what happens but, I for one, do not expect much more from either man. Neither really have the passion for the business they (presumably) once had, IMO. Hardy has other "stuff" going on in his life and RVD only wants a reduced schedule. And there you have it.

 

[tasha16213]

I love Jeff Hardy always have and i will be the first to say wtf is going on with him in tna i loved him in his last couple months with wwe and i think that most of the problem is that wwe pushed hardy and tna isnt pushing him in the right way why is hardy not being pushed for the tna title? I no he has the whole court thing right now but that shouldnt matter if they hired him there where going to get the heat from it no matter what and he still is on every tna show anyway in some way or another. Also I think that tna is scared of losing Jeff Hardy so they let him just do what he wants.


RVD i dont no much about him he really doesnt seem to be getting pushed either rather than the babyface that runs in and saves the day right at the last min. Him along with jeff seem to get beat down by beer money alot. I dont think that tna is using either men in the right way

 

[Alex]

Seeing as both of them have put their bodies on the line for at least fifteen years each, it's understandable that they wouldn't be as good as they once were. RVD is nearly 40 and for a guy of his age and what he's gone through he is in really good condition, Jeff seems to be preoccupied with his court case and is possibly still burned out from last year.

Also the way they're being used can you blame them, these are two of wrestlings biggest names and they're in tag matches, now they're probably being used to put Beer Money over but that would be better suited to Team 3D a tag team with accomplishments, RVD and Hardy should be helping out the single competition.

 

[UFOcalling]

I'm sure you guys must have seen it by now, but there is a report on WZ's main page that reads:

F4WOnline.com is reporting that there is growing concern amongst TNA officials that Jeff Hardy might once again be dealing with past issues that plagued him during his last run with the company, and also lead to his release from WWE prior to debuting with TNA. It's being reported that Kevin Nash suffered a concussion during the cage match he had against Hardy when Jeff hit the Swanton Bomb on Nash's head.

Many backstage TNA officials believe that Hardy's work since returning to TNA has been sub par, with examples being that his promos are mostly babble and appear incoherent, his ring work is unusually sloppy and his behavior is erratic.

I think both RVD & Hardy are phoning it in right now, and are really only there for the easy-paycheck. Hardy is probably depressed over his current legal-situation. I'm not a licensed psychotherapist, but what do most drug-addicts do when they're depressed? ...you guessed it.

RVD never really seemed into it...EVER. He's always been really laid-back, and that's why people liked him to begin with. RVD has never really struck me as the type of wrestler that's there for any other reason than to collect money so he can buy drugs. Sorry, but that's my opinion. Yes, he is/was exciting as hell to watch, but like anything (or any wrestler) you eventually get bored seeing the same thing over and over. I'd have to imagine that you'd get bored DOING the same things over and over too.

 

[16mikeytot]

So, the fact that someone is mildly entertaining in a spotfest means that he's a good wrestler? By that logic, the Public Enemy is on par with the Hart Foundation. Jeff Hardy is, in my opinion, the single most overrated wrestler in the last decade. Even more than Cena. Even more than Batista. Don't get me wrong. Jeff Hardy has that "it" factor that makes people want to pay attention. But, that does not translate to quality in ring work. Has nobody paid attention to Hulk Hogan in this regard?[/QUOTE

Im not saying Hardy is a great wrestler. Im saying I enjoyed his fued with Punk. I enjoyed some of his matches with Edge and I loved his world heavyweight title match against John Morrison.

 

[Caitiff]

Mikey, that fued was decent, but that's because Punk sold the fued. Jeff Hardy had next to nothing to do with the quality of it. Even the ladder match was carried by Punk. So, "Jeff Hardy had a good fued with C.M. Punk" isn't a statement of Hardy's ability. C.M. Punk, like Chris Jericho or Shawn Michaels, could have a decent fued and match with a cardboard cutout of his opponent. And, frankly, in Jeff Hardy's case, that's not too far off from what actually happened.

As far as the other matches are concerned, everyone in wrestling, unless they're completely worthless, has opponents that they have good chemistry with. In John Morrison's case, it was the fact that he wrestled a similar style to Hardy, but with just enough differences that you almost got a spotfest, which is pretty much the only thing Jeff Hardy is good for.

Edge? Well, they'd had how many matches against one another over their careers? After a while, muscle memory takes over, and the timing makes up for everything. But, as his match with James Storm proved, he's not very good at working a good wrestling match with someone who he's neither able to rely on to carry him nor has hundreds of hours of ring time with. If it weren't for the fact that teenage girls and bi-curious preteen boys get a bit excited by the sight of Jeff Hardy, he wouldn't have had the career he's had. And, his success is really a slap in the face of his brother, who is a much better wrestler, in all regards.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

how can you see in hardy's eyes that he is f'd up, he wears crazy colored contacts. and why is RVD getting hate for being a midnight toker? They are athletes that put their bodies through way more than average people and if he wants to smoke to relax himself, then let him blaze away. i thought RVD's counterculture persona was a good deal of his appeal. i think like a couple people pointed out, its both ring rust and anti-climatic booking. not to mention that hardy doesnt put on a good show til ppv's.

I guess I'm not the only one who is concerned....

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/art...rned-over-the-well-being-of-jeff-hardy-100177

I'm not talking about the color his eyeballs, you dope. I am talking about the way they are half closed and looked glazed over. Contacts or no contacts, he looks high. As the article states, his promos are not helping either. He just seems out of it....like he's on something. And he probably is.

This isn't me bashing Jeff Hardy, I have always liked him. I just don't like seeing him when I think he's all f****d up. He was never the best "wrestler," but was always entertaining. I honestly think, at this point in his life, some jail time would do him some good. He needs to get clean. I have been around a few drug addicts in my time, and looking at him reminds me of them. He just doesn't seem "all there" to me.