Int. Region, Third Round: Ultimate Submission: (1) Ric Flair vs. (9) Antonio Inoki

[klunderbunker]

This is a third round match in the International Region. It is an Ultimate Submission match held in the 02 Arena in London, England.

Rules: This match lasts thirty minutes and the person with the most submission victories in the time limit wins. Assume no weapons will be used during the match.

#1. Ric Flair

Vs.

#9. Antonio Inoki

​

Polls will be open for five days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Assume the wrestlers are at full strength after their first two matches.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Bernkastel]

This is one match I've been waiting for, and it should be one hell of a doozy. For those of you that aren't aware, Flair and Inoki have met before in North Korea - which is probably as neutral a ground as any - and Inoki won. And to debunk the "But Echelon, Inoki was the guy that orchestrated the event" while that's true, WCW and NJPW both offered up talents to fuel the card. You had Americans, Mexicans, and Japanese.

http://www.cagematch.net/?id=1&nr=8232

And it's not like the Japanese swept the whole thing either. Inoki as a face, fought and defeated Flair as a heel in a neutral area as it should have been.

I don't look as region or city as having any sort of impact, as American fans [especially casuals who were fans of WCW and Flair's] would have watched the battle in North Korea as it was historic. Inoki's bout with Mohammed Ali also helped his star power in the States, as did dethroning Bob Backlund and winning the WWE championship. Plus he's got that nifty WWE HOF ring to show for his accomplishments.

Inoki's win/loss record against big International names is scary when put into context...

Against Andre - 111 wins/44 losses
Against Hogan - 33 wins/15 losses
Against Lou Thesz - 2 wins/0 losses
Agaisnt Bret Hart - 14 wins/0 losses
Against Sting - 1 win/0 losses
Against Vader - 22 wins/7 losses
Agaisnt Bob Backlund - 4 wins/12 losses
Agaisnt Harley Race - 13 wins/13 losses
Against Dusty Rhodes - 12 wins/5 losses
Against Roddy Piper - 14 wins/0 losses
Against Karl Gotch - 6 wins/2 losses
Against El Santo - 2 wins/0 losses

Flair as a heel won quite a few, but he also lost allot to big stars too...

Against Sting - 52 wins/127 losses
Against Roddy Piper - 65 wins/51 losses
Against Hogan - 11 wins/84 losses
Against Dusty Rhodes - 28 wins/49 losses
Against Randy Savage - 24 wins/91 losses
Against Ricky Steamboat - 24 wins/38 losses
Against Shawn Michaels - 8 wins/48 losses
Against Andre - 0 wins/8 losses
Against Bret Hart - 5 wins/48 losses
Against Harley Race - 13 wins/13 losses
Against Terry Funk - 16 wins/1 loss

This shows that Flair, being a natural heel, lost more big matches than Inoki, who was a natural face. And it's not like Inoki hasn't lost in Japan before, as Hogan beat him for the IWGP world title.

The stipulation works well for both men - it'll be the figure four vs the sleeper and octopus stretch. But in the end Inoki should win this match. He's beaten Flair before in a neutral setting, where neither men had a fan base, with both WCW and New Japan running a joint show.

Vote Inoki.

This is my post from last year. Same stipulation again this year.

Inoki should win. He's beaten Flair before in a true neutral setting in North Korea. And London isn't exactly hometown for either men. Flair loses big matches. Inoki wins big matches. If Flair put over Inoki once, then he'd do it again. Hogan did it. Backlund did it. Sammartino did it. Thesz did it. Andre did it.

Inoki is the bigger star too. He started the biggest wrestling boom period in Japan following the death of Rikidozan, founded and ran the longest running and most successful promotion in the country, and is probably the most decorated and successful international star ever. Sans maybe Hogan and Mascaras.

Vote Inoki.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

This is my post from last year. Same stipulation again this year.

Inoki should win. He's beaten Flair before in a true neutral setting in North Korea. And London isn't exactly hometown for either men. Flair loses big matches. Inoki wins big matches. If Flair put over Inoki once, then he'd do it again. Hogan did it. Backlund did it. Sammartino did it. Thesz did it. Andre did it.

Inoki is the bigger star too. He started the biggest wrestling boom period in Japan following the death of Rikidozan, founded and ran the longest running and most successful promotion in the country, and is probably the most decorated and successful international star ever. Sans maybe Hogan and Mascaras.

Vote Inoki.

I'd put Flair in the category of international stars. He wrestled in New Zealand, Japan, Canada, Mexico, etc. And sure Flair takes a lot of losses. But there's something about a one-and-done match that makes Flair nearly unbeatable. When the chips are down and there's a win that has to be had, Flair comes through lots of the time.

And the majority of Inoki's wins over their top stars are in Japan, where he had influence on booking his promotion. In a neutral setting, it's all down to who has the tendency to submit or pass out. As far as I know, I don't know many instances aside from a Sharpshooter or Scorpion Deathlock that seen Flair submit or pass out. The Figure Four has made MANY folks tap or pass out. Names like Luger, Windham, Rhodes, and Terry Funk even said 'I quit' to the move. Terry Funk, known as one of the toughest men to ever lace up wrestling boots, quit to the Figure Four leglock.

So vote Flair here and don't feel too bad about doing so.

 

[Bernkastel]

I'd put Flair in the category of international stars.

I meant to write foreign. Sure, Flair is technically in that category too, but he was never as successful as Inoki.

And sure Flair takes a lot of losses.

And Inoki wins most of his. In Japan or in the States. Inoki is a natural winner. Flair is a natural loser.

But there's something about a one-and-done match that makes Flair nearly unbeatable. When the chips are down and there's a win that has to be had, Flair comes through lots of the time.

You mean like the "one and done" he had against Inoki and lost? Inoki practically invented "one and done."

And the majority of Inoki's wins over their top stars are in Japan, where he had influence on booking his promotion.

And yet Inoki has a winning record in the States, including a few over some well known HOFamers like Iron Sheik. In fact he's never lost a match during his time with either WCW or WWE. WWE even agreed to job out their champion Bob Backlund to him in Japan. That shows Inoki's integrity as a draw.

In a neutral setting, it's all down to who has the tendency to submit or pass out. As far as I know, I don't know many instances aside from a Sharpshooter or Scorpion Deathlock that seen Flair submit or pass out.

I can't remember Inoki ever submitting in a match off the top of my head. I'd have to look it up. With Flair I can.

Figure Four has made MANY folks tap or pass out. Names like Luger, Windham, Rhodes, and Terry Funk even said 'I quit' to the move. Terry Funk, known as one of the toughest men to ever lace up wrestling boots, quit to the Figure Four leglock.

Inoki is superior to any of those guys. He's proven that he can beat Flair in a neutral setting and he would do so again.

Vote Inoki.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Ric Flair has appeared in Britain many times, has featured on our TV screens predating that and is a legend to wrestling fans from these shores. Antonio Inoki never appeared here, never appeared on our screens; so he is unknown and would get absolutely no reaction.

This would be even less of a "neutral setting" than the US for Flair. There is no way Inoki would go over him here.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Korea ain't that neutral. The match was for a festival of some sort and part of the festivities was going to visit Rikidozans grave so it would make sense Inoki (Rikidozans student) would go over Flair in that situation, I can't count that as a truly neutral setting.

I think in England though Flair would have the advantage but Inoki has the stipulation advantage, he knows a lot of different ways to make his opponent tap. Inoki would take it in the draw department as well, even though it was a different region Inoki is the bigger draw. Other things to take into account is Inoki has beaten world champions like Bob Backlund before so he's certainly credible enough to take Flair outside of Japan. Overall I think I'm gonna wait to vote on this as it could go either way but as of now I'm leaning towards Inoki.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Korea ain't that neutral. The match was for a festival of some sort and part of the festivities was going to visit Rikidozans grave so it would make sense Inoki (Rikidozans student) would go over Flair in that situation, I can't count that as a truly neutral setting.

I think in England though Flair would have the advantage but Inoki has the stipulation advantage, he knows a lot of different ways to make his opponent tap. Inoki would take it in the draw department as well, even though it was a different region Inoki is the bigger draw. Other things to take into account is Inoki has beaten world champions like Bob Backlund before so he's certainly credible enough to take Flair outside of Japan. Overall I think I'm gonna wait to vote on this as it could go either way but as of now I'm leaning towards Inoki.

Again, Britain is not neutral. It's wrestling fans, by and large, only know two things - US wrestling and (age permitting) classic British wrestling. As such, Flair has a HUGE homefield advantage against a Japanese unknown.

 

[Tastycles]

Ric Flair used to go abroad and lose. That was his career, for the longest time. I don't see this as being any different. Talk about the crowd, I'll say this. I went to the Olympic boxing in 2012 and the crowd got massively into one match. Why? Well it was some Japanese guy against an Azeri fighter, and the Azeri got knocked down 6 times in one round and was basically only allowed to continue due to shenanigans. Then the Azeri was announced as the winner and the crowd went ape shit. Ignore the donkey at the end:


What does this show? The British audience don't like shenanigans so they wouldn't like Flair and would get behind Inoki, who repeatedly beat big names from across the world. Flair would lose.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Again, Britain is not neutral. It's wrestling fans, by and large, only know two things - US wrestling and (age permitting) classic British wrestling. As such, Flair has a HUGE homefield advantage against a Japanese unknown.

That's why I said Flair has the location advantage. Even so its not like Inoki hasn't come to the States and beaten top guys before and its not like Japanese wrestling is popular in the States or anything so Inoki winning in England (even as a relative unknown) is very possible as Inoki winning in the States isn't much different than Inoki winning in England.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Ric Flair used to go abroad and lose. That was his career, for the longest time. I don't see this as being any different. Talk about the crowd, I'll say this. I went to the Olympic boxing in 2012 and the crowd got massively into one match. Why? Well it was some Japanese guy against an Azeri fighter, and the Azeri got knocked down 6 times in one round and was basically only allowed to continue due to shenanigans. Then the Azeri was announced as the winner and the crowd went ape shit. Ignore the donkey at the end:


What does this show? The British audience don't like shenanigans so they wouldn't like Flair and would get behind Inoki, who repeatedly beat big names from across the world. Flair would lose.

Boxing event between two completely unknown boxers vs scripted wrestling match between a legend Brits are very familiar with and an unknown Japanese guy?

Flair will win for getting heat (either face or heel) because Inoki will have no heat in Britain because no-one knows who he is. There is a reason why Mick McManus is a British Legend who attracted massive crowds BECAUSE he was a bad guy who specialized in shenanigans (22 million people out of a 53 million population watched him beat Jackie Pallo).

That's why I said Flair has the location advantage. Even so its not like Inoki hasn't come to the States and beaten top guys before and its not like Japanese wrestling is popular in the States or anything so Inoki winning in England (even as a relative unknown) is very possible as Inoki winning in the States isn't much different than Inoki winning in England.

Thing is, you were claiming Inoki's draw ability over Flair in a location were he has zero draw (and as the US is STILL the world leader in wrestling I'd also claim Flair is the bigger worldwide draw).

 

[Tastycles]

Boxing event between two completely unknown boxers vs scripted wrestling match between a legend Brits are very familiar with and an unknown Japanese guy?

Flair will win for getting heat (either face or heel) because Inoki will have no heat in Britain because no-one knows who he is. There is a reason why Mick McManus is a British Legend who attracted massive crowds BECAUSE he was a bad guy who specialized in shenanigans (22 million people out of a 53 million population watched him beat Jackie Pallo).

Nobody knows who Ric Flair is! I was literally the only person in my school who watched WCW in the 90s, because I lived in a house that had sky, but only crap sky, so wrestling was Nitro on TNT, and even then Flair was the president of WCW and old as fuck. By the time Ric Flair was ever televised in this country, he was old. He is known, if he's known at all, by the casual fan in this country by being an old bloke with saggy tits who feuds with Carlito and Shelton Benjamin.

Mick McManus was on a highly popular British television programme that was broadcast at prime time. The only time Flair was on TV in this country before he was 50 years old was on the channel that came on after Cartoon Network that spent most of the time showing old films like Dr. Zhivago, and a very brief stint when he was in WWF and that was shown on Sky before anyone had Sky.

Flair is marginally more well known in the UK than Inoki, but we're talking a very very small number of people who would recognise the Flair of the 4 horsemen rather than the Flair of Evolution.

Anyway, British fans are more than happy to cheer someone they've never heard of over a heel that they have heard of:

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Thing is, you were claiming Inoki's draw ability over Flair in a location were he has zero draw (and as the US is STILL the world leader in wrestling I'd also claim Flair is the bigger worldwide draw).

Perhaps but by that logic a lot of mid card American stars are bigger worldwide draws are bigger than Inoki, but those mid carders can't regularly pack arena's and stadiums either. It depends how you look at a draw I guess and Flair is certainly no slouch in the drawing department but Inoki is arguably the biggest draw in the history of Japanese Wrestling and its not like Japan has a small population either. You could argue Inoki did more with less as he could pack a 50,000 person stadium to watch his matches and although Flair has done that before he hasn't done it nearly as much as Inoki has.

Back to my original point though, Inoki has walked into places like the States and beat top stars before, there's no reason he can't do it to Flair. I'm not saying Inoki's a lock, I'm just saying the relative unknown argument doesn't work that well with Inoki as his track record outside of Japan is pretty damn good.

 

[HBsam31]

To me Flair is just the bigger legend, and has had success everywhere he went. Inoki is right up there with Flair, but Flair is one of those wrestlers that everyone knows whether they watched wrestling or not. Flair takes this one.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Nobody knows who Ric Flair is! I was literally the only person in my school who watched WCW in the 90s, because I lived in a house that had sky, but only crap sky, so wrestling was Nitro on TNT, and even then Flair was the president of WCW and old as fuck. By the time Ric Flair was ever televised in this country, he was old. He is known, if he's known at all, by the casual fan in this country by being an old bloke with saggy tits who feuds with Carlito and Shelton Benjamin.

Mick McManus was on a highly popular British television programme that was broadcast at prime time. The only time Flair was on TV in this country before he was 50 years old was on the channel that came on after Cartoon Network that spent most of the time showing old films like Dr. Zhivago, and a very brief stint when he was in WWF and that was shown on Sky before anyone had Sky.

Oh, please! "Summerslam '92" happened before the WWF was popular in the UK then? The largest verified live event the WWF has ever held was held in a country who didn't know who Ric Flair was? The WWF was big enough in the UK to have run sell out tours in the UK from '89 (even before Flair arrived) which was well before Ric joined the WWF, won the title at the Royal Rumble in record setting circumstances, lost it to Savage and then attacked his knee with a chair in LONDON. He then returned on their tour later that year as champion, defeating Savage and Hart on these shores. Then he appeared for both the WWF AND WCW the following year and appeared again the following year in World Title matches against Hogan. All of these events happening before Flair was WCW president!

You stated that the UK public wouldn't put up with shenanigans - my point was that Mick McManus proved that they'd give up their time and money to watch guaranteed shenanigans.

Flair is marginally more well known in the UK than Inoki, but we're talking a very very small number of people who would recognise the Flair of the 4 horsemen rather than the Flair of Evolution.

"Marginally"? Most of the US guys on this site (part of the so called IWC) have no clue about Inoki and he has a storied career in their country. He has absolutely zero history here. Ric Flair defended the WWF Championship here, he faced Hulk Hogan for the WCW World Title here. Not only did he appear here, he always featured prominently (20 appearances in a 4 year run from '91-'94).

Anyway, British fans are more than happy to cheer someone they've never heard of over a heel that they have heard of:

Which is always a big thumbs up to the heel. There is more to heel heat than just boos, obtaining cheers for your opponent shows that you are doing your job (again, see Mick).

Perhaps but by that logic a lot of mid card American stars are bigger worldwide draws are bigger than Inoki, but those mid carders can't regularly pack arena's and stadiums either. It depends how you look at a draw I guess and Flair is certainly no slouch in the drawing department but Inoki is arguably the biggest draw in the history of Japanese Wrestling and its not like Japan has a small population either. You could argue Inoki did more with less as he could pack a 50,000 person stadium to watch his matches and although Flair has done that before he hasn't done it nearly as much as Inoki has.

Back to my original point though, Inoki has walked into places like the States and beat top stars before, there's no reason he can't do it to Flair. I'm not saying Inoki's a lock, I'm just saying the relative unknown argument doesn't work that well with Inoki as his track record outside of Japan is pretty damn good.

But he is a non-existent draw in the UK - he is unknown. As such, I'd argue that many of the mid-carders in this very tournament would deserve to go over Inoki in LONDON, ENGLAND were he has zip, nil, nada history. In the US, at least, he has history in that country, so that can be argued in his favor.

Another nail, I see, in Inoki's coffin is his Japanese heritage which means that according to British wrestling traditions - he would be regarded as a heel. This means that we have a well known Flair heel going up against a perceived unknown heel (who is actually likely to be playing face).

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

I meant to write foreign. Sure, Flair is technically in that category too, but he was never as successful as Inoki.

Flair had great runs in the NWA and the WWF/E, something Inoki didn't have. I may be partial to American pro wrestling, but those promotions are considered as big, if not bigger than Inoki's promotion.

And Inoki wins most of his. In Japan or in the States. Inoki is a natural winner. Flair is a natural loser.

16 times world's champion doesn't = loser. In Flair's prime, he never lost big matches. He had time limit draws, but he mostly won his matches when there were high stakes. And North Korea is far from a neutral site.

You mean like the "one and done" he had against Inoki and lost? Inoki practically invented "one and done."

So did Flair. Every territory he went to was 'one and done' for that year. He'd go to the home territory, either beat or draw their top guy, and move on. When there must be a winner, Flair wins.

And yet Inoki has a winning record in the States, including a few over some well known HOFamers like Iron Sheik. In fact he's never lost a match during his time with either WCW or WWE. WWE even agreed to job out their champion Bob Backlund to him in Japan. That shows Inoki's integrity as a draw.

Will all due respect to Backlund, he wasn't seen as on Flair's level back in those days. I can guarantee you if Inoki came to Greensboro or any of Flair's home territories, Flair would go over Inoki... because the NWA Champion simply didn't lose major matches. At worst, it'd be a time limit draw. But in a must win, Flair would get the victory in a hard fought match.

I can't remember Inoki ever submitting in a match off the top of my head. I'd have to look it up. With Flair I can.

Inoki wouldn't tap. He'd pass out. He has too much pride to tap. But Flair's made many, MANY big stars pass out to the Figure Four, which is all he'd need to get the decision. Rhodes, Luger, Funk... Terry Funk even said 'I quit' to the Figure Four. Not saying Inoki would, but I'm saying Inoki would pass out before tapping, which still counts as winning.

Inoki is superior to any of those guys. He's proven that he can beat Flair in a neutral setting and he would do so again.

Vote Inoki.

I can't agree that North Korea is a 'neutral site'. It's still Asia, where Inoki's well known and the promotion was a joint promotion with WCW and Inoki's promotion.

Alas, I'm a huge fan of Inoki, but Ric Flair is one of the all-time greats.

Vote Flair.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

Flair had great runs in the NWA and the WWF/E, something Inoki didn't have. I may be partial to American pro wrestling, but those promotions are considered as big, if not bigger than Inoki's promotion.

Umm maybe...... If you think about when Flair wrestled in WWF it was actually about the same size as NJPW. Both were national brands and NJPW had better competition at the time. Plus Flair's run in WWE sucked.

16 times world's champion doesn't = loser. In Flair's prime, he never lost big matches. He had time limit draws, but he mostly won his matches when there were high stakes. And North Korea is far from a neutral site.

Really? How many times did Flair lose to Hogan in big matches? Or Sting? or Savage? Hart? He never lost big matches? Bullshit, Savage at wrestlemania, Sting at starcade 89 and 90, Hogan vs Flair in WCW. It was constant that Flair lost big matches. He's my third favorite wrestler ever but lying about him to try to get him over is flat out bullshit. And as far as his "prime" He was in a second rate wrestling company that spent all it's time trying to catch WWF. Flair was never once at the top of a top rate company during a successful period. Inoki was. I could say that Booker T did almost the same thing. Hogan was the only reason Flair was ever in a top fed, and the fact is Hogan owned Flairs ass.

So did Flair. Every territory he went to was 'one and done' for that year. He'd go to the home territory, either beat or draw their top guy, and move on. When there must be a winner, Flair wins.

If you don't count the countless DQ's and countouts flair did against local talent sure.

Will all due respect to Backlund, he wasn't seen as on Flair's level back in those days. I can guarantee you if Inoki came to Greensboro or any of Flair's home territories, Flair would go over Inoki... because the NWA Champion simply didn't lose major matches. At worst, it'd be a time limit draw. But in a must win, Flair would get the victory in a hard fought match.

Yeah because flair would never lose to someone like Rick Rude for a Major title, or Ronnie Garvin, or Kerry Von Erich. All of which where jokes compared to Inoki. Or that one and done with Mr. Perfect in the WWE in a loser leaves town match.

Inoki wouldn't tap. He'd pass out. He has too much pride to tap. But Flair's made many, MANY big stars pass out to the Figure Four, which is all he'd need to get the decision. Rhodes, Luger, Funk... Terry Funk even said 'I quit' to the Figure Four. Not saying Inoki would, but I'm saying Inoki would pass out before tapping, which still counts as winning.

Maybe so but it wouldn't matter because Flair would tap first.

I can't agree that North Korea is a 'neutral site'. It's still Asia, where Inoki's well known and the promotion was a joint promotion with WCW and Inoki's promotion.

Alas, I'm a huge fan of Inoki, but Ric Flair is one of the all-time greats.

Vote Flair.

As is Inoki, and most of your arguments are just full of half-lies or full of crap. Flair lost big matches all the time. To Sting, to Hogan, to Savage, and Inoki would be no different.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Umm maybe...... If you think about when Flair wrestled in WWF it was actually about the same size as NJPW. Both were national brands and NJPW had better competition at the time. Plus Flair's run in WWE sucked.

So winning the Royal Rumble and the WWE title in the process sucked huh? Just because Hogan wanted to be the top guy and Vince didn't want an NWA guy on top of his promotion doesn't mean Flair's run in the WWE sucked. It was abbreviated.

Really? How many times did Flair lose to Hogan in big matches? Or Sting? or Savage? Hart? He never lost big matches? Bullshit, Savage at wrestlemania, Sting at starcade 89 and 90, Hogan vs Flair in WCW. It was constant that Flair lost big matches. He's my third favorite wrestler ever but lying about him to try to get him over is flat out bullshit. And as far as his "prime" He was in a second rate wrestling company that spent all it's time trying to catch WWF. Flair was never once at the top of a top rate company during a successful period. Inoki was. I could say that Booker T did almost the same thing. Hogan was the only reason Flair was ever in a top fed, and the fact is Hogan owned Flairs ass.

Flair beat Hogan for his 14th World Title reign. When Flair's presidency of WCW was on the line, Flair came through and beat the biggest star in wrestling history. Sure Flair's lost to Hogan a lot of times, and he's lost to Sting, and Luger, and Garvin, etc, but when you wrestle as much as Flair has, you're going to lose some matches. Thing is, each of those losses were avenged. He beat Garvin clean to regain the title, he beat Sting to win his 7th world title, and beat Savage in the WWF to regain the belt a second time.

And Inoki was in a top rate company. In Japan. Flair was a part of a world wrestling alliance called the NWA that was the governing body of wrestling for nearly 70 years, and from 1983 - 1991, Flair carried the banner for the NWA as it's traveling world champion. How many NWA WHC's has Inoki won? Zero. How many WWF/E titles has Inoki won? Zero.

If you don't count the countless DQ's and countouts flair did against local talent sure.

He won a lot of those matches, too. The DQ's and countouts were booked to make the territory's top guy look strong. In this kind of match, that won't matter.

Yeah because flair would never lose to someone like Rick Rude for a Major title, or Ronnie Garvin, or Kerry Von Erich. All of which where jokes compared to Inoki. Or that one and done with Mr. Perfect in the WWE in a loser leaves town match.

Or his title wins over Dusty Rhodes, Harley Race, Sting, Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Jumbo Tsuruta, and pretty much every meaningful name in wrestling in the past 40 years. And all of those losses you talk about were avenged aside from the Mr. Perfect match because Flair was heading back to WCW.

Maybe so but it wouldn't matter because Flair would tap first.

If Inoki doesn't pass out from pain before then. The man's made Mick Foley and Terry Funk say 'I quit'. I think he can manage to make Inoki pass out to the Figure Four.

As is Inoki, and most of your arguments are just full of half-lies or full of crap. Flair lost big matches all the time. To Sting, to Hogan, to Savage, and Inoki would be no different.

He won big matches, too. And where am I lying? You're overblowing a Japanese wrestler like every other person does on these forums. Flair's wrestled in Japan, and beaten their top stars. Flair is arguably one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, and you're lowering him to a territorial draw? Also, Inoki's lost to inferior wrestlers, too. It comes with the territory of being a top guy in your promotion, or in Flair's case, the top guy in the National Wrestling Alliance.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

So winning the Royal Rumble and the WWE title in the process sucked huh? Just because Hogan wanted to be the top guy and Vince didn't want an NWA guy on top of his promotion doesn't mean Flair's run in the WWE sucked. It was abbreviated.

I'm saying that Flair's run in WWE happened in a time when the WWE sucked and honestly it wasn't good at all.

Flair beat Hogan for his 14th World Title reign. When Flair's presidency of WCW was on the line, Flair came through and beat the biggest star in wrestling history. Sure Flair's lost to Hogan a lot of times, and he's lost to Sting, and Luger, and Garvin, etc, but when you wrestle as much as Flair has, you're going to lose some matches. Thing is, each of those losses were avenged. He beat Garvin clean to regain the title, he beat Sting to win his 7th world title, and beat Savage in the WWF to regain the belt a second time.

Flair lost that match against hogan in every possible way. It was a first blood match in which Flair bleed first. And Hogan had only beat Flair 20 times clean before that. And you said Flair never lost the big match in his prime. While it's just bs. Starcade and Wrestlemania, are there matches bigger than that? Not to mention he didn't even main event mania.

And Inoki was in a top rate company. In Japan. Flair was a part of a world wrestling alliance called the NWA that was the governing body of wrestling for nearly 70 years, and from 1983 - 1991, Flair carried the banner for the NWA as it's traveling world champion. How many NWA WHC's has Inoki won? Zero. How many WWF/E titles has Inoki won? Zero.

He beat Bob Backlund for the WWF title. His reign isn't recognized but he still won the belt and had it. Never lost the belt either. Yes Flair carried the banner as a traveling champion, congrats to him. It doesn't make what I said about them being second rate untrue. The NWA didn't grow because of Flair, it didn't see increased success and he is highly overrated.

He won a lot of those matches, too. The DQ's and countouts were booked to make the territory's top guy look strong. In this kind of match, that won't matter.

So Inoki doesn't need to look strong here? In a tourney where he's viewed as a long shot even while being in the WCW and WWE hall of fame? And if this doesn't matter I don't see how Hogan winning a match and being screwed out of it should.

Or his title wins over Dusty Rhodes, Harley Race, Sting, Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Jumbo Tsuruta, and pretty much every meaningful name in wrestling in the past 40 years. And all of those losses you talk about were avenged aside from the Mr. Perfect match because Flair was heading back to WCW.

No they weren't, Losing to a 25 times and beating him once does not count as avenging anything. Flair jobbed to Perfect who was little more the a third tier guy in the WWF to send him shipping to WCW. If Flair was that big a deal, they would've had it against someone bigger/

If Inoki doesn't pass out from pain before then. The man's made Mick Foley and Terry Funk say 'I quit'. I think he can manage to make Inoki pass out to the Figure Four.

Funk nor Foley are near Inoki but okay.

He won big matches, too. And where am I lying? You're overblowing a Japanese wrestler like every other person does on these forums. Flair's wrestled in Japan, and beaten their top stars. Flair is arguably one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, and you're lowering him to a territorial draw? Also, Inoki's lost to inferior wrestlers, too. It comes with the territory of being a top guy in your promotion, or in Flair's case, the top guy in the National Wrestling Alliance.

Flair lost almost all of the important matches in his career, even when he held onto the belt it was via Dq or countout alot! His "avenged" victory over Hogan is a joke seeing as he had already lost the match, and he lost to Sting twice on the biggest stage WCW had, and not to mention he's 0 for whatever at Wrestlemania. The man lost big matches constantly!!! This would be no different.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

I'm saying that Flair's run in WWE happened in a time when the WWE sucked and honestly it wasn't good at all.

The WWE was fine back then. And Flair didn't have anything to do with the WWE sucking, so he's not the blame here. And even so, in a world where there was Hogan, Savage, Piper, Warrior, and others... Flair held the belt twice.

Flair lost that match against hogan in every possible way. It was a first blood match in which Flair bleed first. And Hogan had only beat Flair 20 times clean before that. And you said Flair never lost the big match in his prime. While it's just bs. Starcade and Wrestlemania, are there matches bigger than that? Not to mention he didn't even main event mania.

Starrcade was the NWA's Wrestlemania, and he headlined that event from 1983-1989. Also, Flair had a MOTY with HBK at Wrestlemania. At nearly 60 years old.

He beat Bob Backlund for the WWF title. His reign isn't recognized but he still won the belt and had it. Never lost the belt either. Yes Flair carried the banner as a traveling champion, congrats to him. It doesn't make what I said about them being second rate untrue. The NWA didn't grow because of Flair, it didn't see increased success and he is highly overrated.

Inoki's title reign isn't recognized because it wasn't sanctioned by the WWWF at the time. And it makes everything you said about him being second rate untrue. The NWA was the governing body of wrestling, and the WWF seceded from that group to be on their own. Up until 1985, the WWF was a regional promotion with moderate national exposure. By then, Flair had been champion on three occasions over Harley Race and Dusty Rhodes, which sold out the venues they emanated from. Flair is the ultimate worker and the ultimate draw for any area of the world. Inoki drew money in Japan.

So Inoki doesn't need to look strong here? In a tourney where he's viewed as a long shot even while being in the WCW and WWE hall of fame? And if this doesn't matter I don't see how Hogan winning a match and being screwed out of it should.

Inoki can look strong in defeat. Passing out due to pain is the ultimate sign of toughness in Japanese culture. There's no shame in it. So why wouldn't Inoki pass out? And why wouldn't he do the job to someone who was as admired as the Nature Boy?

No they weren't, Losing to a 25 times and beating him once does not count as avenging anything. Flair jobbed to Perfect who was little more the a third tier guy in the WWF to send him shipping to WCW. If Flair was that big a deal, they would've had it against someone bigger/

Perfect was a THIRD TIER GUY?! You out of your mind? Mr. Perfect was a great mid-card wrestler who did what was needed of him. He held the IC title numerous times and was over as a heel in an era where being over meant something. Also, once again, Flair was going back to WCW, so he had to lose that match. I know kayfabe wise that counts as a high stakes match he lost, but Flair's won TONS of big matches. And if Inoki will do the job to Vader in Japan in his debut, why wouldn't he lose to Flair?

Funk nor Foley are near Inoki but okay.

They drew lots of money in Japan. Just like Inoki did. They're closer to Inoki than you think. And I might add, as tough as Inoki.

Flair lost almost all of the important matches in his career, even when he held onto the belt it was via Dq or countout alot! His "avenged" victory over Hogan is a joke seeing as he had already lost the match, and he lost to Sting twice on the biggest stage WCW had, and not to mention he's 0 for whatever at Wrestlemania. The man lost big matches constantly!!! This would be no different.

It would be different. Most of those losses come after Flair's prime. He beat Sting after losing to him at the GAB, beat Savage after losing to him at WM. So if you want to have a theory on what would actually happen here, since Inoki beat Flair in North Korea, Flair's after retribution and gets it in England! TO BE THE MAN - YOU GOTTA BEAT ... THE MAN! And Flair's the man here. And will beat Inoki.

 

[nightmare]

Flair wins this already but I am going to point out something that bothers me. Why the hell do some people round here consider Flair's prime to be in 90's WCW & try to point out certain losses during that time as a detriment to his chances? The man was kicking major ass before Ted even thought of trying to catch Vince. I never understood that. In one sentence someone mentions a NWA match & then a crappy WCW match like they were from the same time frame or something. 2 vastly different times in his career & giving Flair shit for WCW while trying to overshadow his huge NWA success is just ridiculous.



All in all, Flair will win this. He would make Inoki pass out for that last fall in a huge moment to end the matchup.