Innocent Until Proven Guilty?
- Thread starter JBowling
- Start date
despite mj having a trial his life is being celebrated. lets be honest hes even found his way on to a wrestling forum. i dnt know wheather or not he did what he did but micheal jackson is an icon despite his problems. no matter how big you are you have issues. benoit although in the public eye also had problems. it cant be argued his final hours were beyond imaginable before then he was also an icon. maybe his end wasnt exactly as socially acceptable as a heart attack but all it was was an end. i cant see why we cant celebrate the wrestling accomplishments of benoit much like jacksons music will be.
that being said wrestling has a bad reputation within the media unlike pop music....
that being said wrestling has a bad reputation within the media unlike pop music....
one vietnam was not fake at all. my dad fought in that war . the stupid french got america into that war. also michael jackson is innocent . those kids & their family were only after money & lieing their ass off.. if michael jackson was child molester we would have found out earlier then when those cases happen . michael jackson was around too many kids in the past to have been a child molester & would have been caught along time before those case were brought up. so Michael jackson is no child molester & benoit is guilty of what he did.
Spaceman Spif
Getting Noticed By Management
Yeah I know it wasn't fake, but there are some who for some reason believe it was. Anyways, again difference of opinons, you say innocent, I say guilty with Michael, however the main question was, should what Benoit did, keep him from the Hall of Fame or being recongnised by the WWE as such. Again I say what he did to his family, though horrific, should not keep him out of the Hall Of Fame or blacklisted from the WWE.
Ambiguous Turd
Mid-Card Championship Winner
I guess the fact that Nancy Benoit placed a sealed envelope in her Security Box stating that "if anything happened to her, her husband was responsible" and her telling her sister how afraid she was to be around Chris which was going to lead her to leaving her husband, doesn't really mean anything.
Hey, as long as you're a fan of Benoit, none of the obvious matters, right? Same thing with OJ Simpson.
You can say Michael was not guilty (proven in court). You can say Benoit was guilty (proven based on evidence). Great. The thing is both had a greater part of their life they should be remembered for. The big difference, is one was and still is a mainstream media icon who died unexpectedly. The other was a wrestler which in most cases means nothing in the real world who killed his family and himself. However, Benoit got his moment in the light. Remember RAW that night? A tribute to what a great wrestler he was. He even got some props that night on CNN and other stations for his wrestling until the details of the event came out. As for being wiped out of the history books by the WWE, this goes to the real world comment. How many people outside of wrestling fans and those in the business (before the event) knew who Chris Benoit was or what he did for a living? Everybody knew who Michael Jackson was. If wrestling was as mainstream as Vince likes to think it is Benoit wouldn't be forgotten by the WWE. Is child molestation (alleged) better than murder? In this case yes because he was proven innocent so you have to say he didn‘t do it. If he did actually do it and got off (no pun intended) then it’s just as bad as murder. Again though, there was proof for both cases. It all comes down to the fact that one was real media world, and the other was in the wrestling media world. That's the big difference between the 2.
I'm sure the NFL wouldn't allow O.J Simpson to be in the hall of fame if he was found guility of the murders. So why the hell would WWE let Benoit? He was a great wrestler and he suffered a lot physically and mentally but it doesn't give him the right to kill his family. Which was proven, there was lots of physical abuse to Nancy before Benoit killed her also. If your an alcholic, drug addict, or even abuse your wife now and then, its not great but better then being a frickin SERIAL KILLER. The thing with Micheal Jackson is he sold as many albums as The Beatles and Elvis Presley almost and changed the face of music forever. That doesn't excuse him for what he did if he did do it. But people are more forgiving to a superstar like Michael Jackson then Chris Benoit. Everyone around the world knows Michael Jackson but Chris Benoit... yeah I'm sure there are still many people in the world that don't know who the hell Chris Benoit is. IMO Micheal Jackson is a messed up in the head as Benoit, except Jackson actually believed it was no problem sharing your bed with young children. Pretty strange. The point is Jackson was already a superstar and in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame before the accusations. Benoit was a nobody until Wrestlemania 20. I'm sorry but if Hulk Hogan killed his wife and kids 10 years ago, which I would love... but I wouldn't look at him in the same light either and wouldn't want him in the HOF either.
ksuperman06
Dark Match Jobber
the truth of the matter is this, could beniot not have done it? yes he could have been framed to look like it, there are many people out there who could commit a henious crime and cover it up to make someone else look like they did it. did michael jackson do it? dont know but i do know that he paid 30 million to the kids family to shut them up from spilling any of the details after he was found innocent.......seems to me if i really am innocent i aint paying my hard earned money to keep someone quiet. beniot has done a lot for the business and to just write him out of history is bullshit and vince mcmahon knows it thats why the crappy federation he has now is doing the whole pg thing so that this will all die down and that his involvement will be forgotten about just like he did with the whole hogan steroid thing then the whole hitman screw job and now this. vince mcmahon is the biggest piece of scumbag shit that you can ever find. and id say it to his face if he wasnt a ********ing asshole.
Sure, Micheal Jackson was aquitted of his crime. So was OJ Simpson back in 1995.
Benoit was dead when they found him, and therefore beyond the reach of the law. If he had been alive and tried for murder, everyone would feel the same way about him as they do about OJ, especially considering there was fingerprint and DNA evidence.
Besides, the IP address that did that was traced back to WWE, so how do we know that it wasn't Benoit himself that put it there?
Benoit was dead when they found him, and therefore beyond the reach of the law. If he had been alive and tried for murder, everyone would feel the same way about him as they do about OJ, especially considering there was fingerprint and DNA evidence.
Besides, the IP address that did that was traced back to WWE, so how do we know that it wasn't Benoit himself that put it there?
Why don't you share the evidence that points to someone other than Benoit?? Simply saying, "I heard he loved his kid more than anything" doesn't prove anything.
The FACT is all of the forensic evidence points to Benoit. There isn't a single shred of evidence that points to anyone else. Anyone who suggests otherwise is just a desperate conspiracy theorist.
{begin sarcasm} Exactly! Why does everyone focus on the millions of Jews Hitler killed? What about all the good he did for Germany?? Look at Volkswagen!! The people's car!! I don't get it! You kill one person, two people, a million people, and suddenly you're labeled a "murderer!" So unfair! {end sarcasm}
Honestly man, get a life and a clue. Take off your tin foil hat. The CIA isn't trying to read your mind.
Hey,
Long time lurker, first time post and I wish it was under better circumstances but this thread hit close to home.
Both Chris Benoit and Michael Jackson were role models of mine, (I'd probably place them #1 and 2 of people who's example to follow.) Chris Benoit was a hard working, dedicated and seemingly loving man who did everything he could to make sure I went home happy every show, and I did.
Michael did the same, and was a world renowned humanitarian outside of his musical accomplishments.
I tried to keep an open mind through both cases and wept when I found out about Chris. Unfortunately, the evidence is clear to me that he did it. Future evidence points to brain damage which of course no one covers because they want to make the big bad wrestler the monster and it's sickening.
MJ on the other hand... not to sound offensive, but I wonder if anyone who thinks he's guilty ever even looked at the evidence? Almost all of it was flimsy or conflicted with "eye witness" accounts. Professional psychiatrists during the trial said he in no way fit the profile of a pedophile. I remember laughing so hard when the little brother testified that he watched jackson assault him to a "climax" while the boy was asleep. Is that even possible?
The second family had a history of trying to rip off celebs and the dad who represented his son in 1993 never liked Jackson, (I recently read that he sedated his son for the first confession that he was molested.) Say what you will about settling out of court, but even if this was an admission of guilt, what the fuck kind of father are you to accept money? If it were my son, I'd want the bastard's head on a platter. Not to mention that the kid is now living in a $2 million home.
I don't mean to bash anyone who thinks he's guilty, but seriously, how can you? I'd welcome any evidence that points to it because everyone I ask points to how he has a bunch of kids at his house and he's only with boys, which one, while it may be weird to some, there's nothing wrong or illegal with it. Two, anyone who cared enough to watch footage from the ranch saw there were plenty of girls too. Hell, I'll even mention the evidence that sounded bad to me. In 1993 there were some art books confiscated with nude boys in it. However, there was no DNA evidence to incriminate him and the books were legal. On top of that, there were inscriptions that pointed to the idea that they were for art purposes, and keep in mind this was only found during the case where it WASN'T taken to trial for lack of evidence. Out of all those kids, it happened to be two boys who pressed charges. Personally, I think it was to prey on the public's fear of homosexuality and pedophilia in one swoop, (which is further proven to me by the guy who can't type a sentence without the word "******" or "homosexual."
Anyway, sorry to go so far off topic. Like I said, both men meant an awful lot to me. So to answer the question, I think they should both be honored for their service and sacrifice to entertain us. I'm still bitter about Benoit being erased from WWE history, but from a business standpoint I can understand it. All I know is that when I have kids, I'm going to show them both Benoit and Jackson and honor them by keeping them alive in future generations. I feel if my kids could have the dedication of Benoit and the compassion of Jackson, the world would truly be a better place. Whether or not they're officially honored, it's up to us since we're truly the ones with the last word.
Long time lurker, first time post and I wish it was under better circumstances but this thread hit close to home.
Both Chris Benoit and Michael Jackson were role models of mine, (I'd probably place them #1 and 2 of people who's example to follow.) Chris Benoit was a hard working, dedicated and seemingly loving man who did everything he could to make sure I went home happy every show, and I did.
Michael did the same, and was a world renowned humanitarian outside of his musical accomplishments.
I tried to keep an open mind through both cases and wept when I found out about Chris. Unfortunately, the evidence is clear to me that he did it. Future evidence points to brain damage which of course no one covers because they want to make the big bad wrestler the monster and it's sickening.
MJ on the other hand... not to sound offensive, but I wonder if anyone who thinks he's guilty ever even looked at the evidence? Almost all of it was flimsy or conflicted with "eye witness" accounts. Professional psychiatrists during the trial said he in no way fit the profile of a pedophile. I remember laughing so hard when the little brother testified that he watched jackson assault him to a "climax" while the boy was asleep. Is that even possible?
The second family had a history of trying to rip off celebs and the dad who represented his son in 1993 never liked Jackson, (I recently read that he sedated his son for the first confession that he was molested.) Say what you will about settling out of court, but even if this was an admission of guilt, what the fuck kind of father are you to accept money? If it were my son, I'd want the bastard's head on a platter. Not to mention that the kid is now living in a $2 million home.
I don't mean to bash anyone who thinks he's guilty, but seriously, how can you? I'd welcome any evidence that points to it because everyone I ask points to how he has a bunch of kids at his house and he's only with boys, which one, while it may be weird to some, there's nothing wrong or illegal with it. Two, anyone who cared enough to watch footage from the ranch saw there were plenty of girls too. Hell, I'll even mention the evidence that sounded bad to me. In 1993 there were some art books confiscated with nude boys in it. However, there was no DNA evidence to incriminate him and the books were legal. On top of that, there were inscriptions that pointed to the idea that they were for art purposes, and keep in mind this was only found during the case where it WASN'T taken to trial for lack of evidence. Out of all those kids, it happened to be two boys who pressed charges. Personally, I think it was to prey on the public's fear of homosexuality and pedophilia in one swoop, (which is further proven to me by the guy who can't type a sentence without the word "******" or "homosexual."
Anyway, sorry to go so far off topic. Like I said, both men meant an awful lot to me. So to answer the question, I think they should both be honored for their service and sacrifice to entertain us. I'm still bitter about Benoit being erased from WWE history, but from a business standpoint I can understand it. All I know is that when I have kids, I'm going to show them both Benoit and Jackson and honor them by keeping them alive in future generations. I feel if my kids could have the dedication of Benoit and the compassion of Jackson, the world would truly be a better place. Whether or not they're officially honored, it's up to us since we're truly the ones with the last word.
twiztidmuhfuka
New Member
michael jackson is rotting in the deepest layers of hell right now, where he belongs. nuf said. feel free to argue all you want it wont help or cool him off any. as you sit there all outraged, typing ur hateful responses just refusing to believe that that sick fuck is screaming in agony even as you type.
He did put out "thriller" which we are obligated to say everytime someone mentions he likes to have sex with kids.
And Benoit did win the main event of Wrestlemania XX, which we are obligated to say everyime someone mentions he killed his family.
So all in all, WHO GIVES A SHIT!!!!!
And Benoit did win the main event of Wrestlemania XX, which we are obligated to say everyime someone mentions he killed his family.
So all in all, WHO GIVES A SHIT!!!!!
sting4life
Dark Match Jobber
Wait a second, are there people out there that still think that Benoit didn't kill his wife and kid? Second, Jackson may of been found not guilty in court,but how many innocent people give the "alleged" victim 20 million.
First there was Mt. Rushmore, now maybe it is time for Mt. Wrongly accused with O.J, Benoit, and Jackson.
First there was Mt. Rushmore, now maybe it is time for Mt. Wrongly accused with O.J, Benoit, and Jackson.
If I ran the WWE, though I respect what Benoit has done, I would write him out of the history books as well.
Despite what you think, there is sufficient evidence that proves Benoit was responsible for the murders, while I think the whole brain damage issue comes to play and am open to the concept that he may not have known what he was doing. The facts are Benoit killed them. Despite my beliefs on his state of mind, I wouldnt want someone responsible for two murders to be associated with my company and would do everything I can to get rid of any trace of him.
Now your claims about Michael, with the kid from 1993 coming out and claiming he made it all up, and the average evidence we have had against him. I want you to provide decent evidence to support your claims that Michael was a child molester. Go on, and saying he payed a large sum to the family to keep them quiet does not count as sufficient factual proof that he did do such claims. Whether it was right or wrong, I imagine Michael didnt want it to go any further, and seeing as he had the money.. Well why not? Im sure he isnt the first person to pay money for things that arent true. He had an already severely tarnished career at stake.
How many victims take money over making sure the abuser doesn't stay in prison?
Like I said, the victim in that case was full of shit. There's more evidence proving that than the other way around. Which is why it never went to trial.
Still waiting on that incriminating evidence that leans towards Jackson actually doing it. No hate here though, I just want knowledge to see the other side. Lack of hate is another thing he taught me.
Spaceman Spif
Getting Noticed By Management
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5906855
Here's an article that goes over some the evidence that police and investigators did find against Jackson, interesting read, and makes me believe more that he was indeed guilty, however again I state that, while I believe him to a pedophyliac, it should not tarnish his accomplishments and contributions to the music world. Just like OJ was an amazing football player and Chris Benoit an extrodinary wrestler. Will Benoit make it into the Hall Of Fame, no, should he, I think yes, but who knows, it's all just a matter of opinon now.
Here's an article that goes over some the evidence that police and investigators did find against Jackson, interesting read, and makes me believe more that he was indeed guilty, however again I state that, while I believe him to a pedophyliac, it should not tarnish his accomplishments and contributions to the music world. Just like OJ was an amazing football player and Chris Benoit an extrodinary wrestler. Will Benoit make it into the Hall Of Fame, no, should he, I think yes, but who knows, it's all just a matter of opinon now.
Well, hell thats proof! A mans fingerprints found on the bodies of two people he lived with, by that token my ex girlfriend didn't kill herself with paracetemol, I killed her, because my fingerporints would have have been everywhere because we lived together for years. Well done detective, just off to hand myself in.
OK. You're banned, but I'll give your post a whirl.
Which I find completely sad. He was never proven guilty of those crimes. I mean, it's really just "He said, He said." It's terrible if it really happened to the boys, but I'm not gonna judge a man without knowing all the facts. Or he gets found guilty of child molestation. I trust the court system, what can I say?
And what treatment would that be? The one where some of us, myself included, count Benoit's horrific actions as the stuff of a man who had mush for brains and finally snapped? Or the other reaction where people condemn him for what they believe to be inexcusable actions, whether he had control over his body and mind or not?
So? TMZ reported Michael Jackson died before CNN did. Are you not going to believe that?
Also, if you're going to go with the "No one saw him do it" angle, might as well let any alleyway murder go, because no one saw them do it.
Because people don't like even the accusation of being a child molester. Sorta like 50 years ago, being accused of being a adulterer was horrendous, and you were ostrichized forever. Now it's still looked down upon, but people are much more forgiving now.
Well. Jackson is getting honors for his music. The people who give Jackson the benefit of a doubt are celebrating him as the man he was. The people who don't are celebrating because an accused child molester is dead. Meh.
Benoit does get honor for his contributions. You never read the "I love what Benoit did for wrestling, but I could never forgive him..." posts? Really? They're everywhere.
Honestly, Double Homocide and Suicide is worse than being accused of molesting a child. And even if Jackson did molest the child, it's not as bad as killing your mentally ******ed son with a choke hold, killing your wife, then hanging yourself. Scars the kid, sure. But doesn't choke him to death.
And if you were to excuse any action, people can much more readily excuse Benoit's actions. Autopsies have proven he had the mental workings of a old, old, old Alzheimers dude. Those concussions and steroids did a number on his brain, to the point where it can be argued Benoit didn't have any real control over his thoughts.
Michael Jackson, however, may have molested a child. Sure, you can argue he was abused by his crazy ass bastard of a father and was really, really traumatized. To the point of thinking he was a perpetual boy. But people these days are going to tear you apart for even being accused of child molestation. Ever read the Scarlet Letter?
I just dont understand how anyone can sit there and try to come up with a reason to defend Benoit. Perhaps his brain was that fucked up to the point that he didnt have control, perhaps not. The brain is an infinitley complex machine that NO ONE fully understands. The fact remains that he killed his little boy and his wife. If you are that screwed up and depressed , kill yourself. I wish that the whole Benoit thing had never taken place, because I like everyone else here was a huge Benoit mark. Now as to if he deserves to be in the HOF , the answer is no. NO NO NO NO HELL NO. You cant say look at his legacy and everything he accomplished blah blah blah waaa waa waa. He killed a friggin 5 year old. If the Dhali Lhama lived his life the way he has, and then went on a drug induced killing spree, he would not still be idolized. Benoit deserves no better.
Motor City Mayhem
The Canadian Rover.
Simple. Micheal Jackson was never prooven that he was a child molester, people might think that but he wasnt. Chris Benoit, My favorite all time wrestler, although he wasnt seen doing it and the whole Wiki thing, WWE wasnt going to just say "Well no1 saw him and some guy reported it on Wikipedia so were going to keep on promoting him foreever" especially if the WWE wants to be PG.
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
As much as I would like to agree with you in saying Benoit didn't do it - you can't honestly believe that. When Benoit died he was one of my favourite wrestlers, and when I first heard of the deaths I assumed someone had broken in and killed all inside. However, as details emerged it became obvious this was the work of Benoit himself. Ask yourself this - would you feel so strongly if Benoit wasn't a wrestler? I don't think so.
Michael Jackson, while controversial stories have followed him, was never proven guilty. I'm not going to say he didn't do it, because I don't know that for definite. But I also don't know if he did. If he was convicted it'd be a very different story, I'd probably welcome the death. But I think when someone dies it's time to stop the rumours and just let those who loved him mourn. It doesn't matter anymore.
Michael Jackson, while controversial stories have followed him, was never proven guilty. I'm not going to say he didn't do it, because I don't know that for definite. But I also don't know if he did. If he was convicted it'd be a very different story, I'd probably welcome the death. But I think when someone dies it's time to stop the rumours and just let those who loved him mourn. It doesn't matter anymore.
Ok I came across this post before but didn't have time to write anything about at the time. First thing is I've noticed there has been some deleted comments since I last checked in, which is a shame cause I found some of them absolutely hillarious. I think it was from a user called Bigguy or something like that. I guess there were some reasons why his comments got taken off..oh well. Anyway back to the topic, I was definately a big fan of Benoit and obviously it was a real shock when I found out about the whole murder-suicide incident. Like alot of people, I thought there was someone else involved and was kinda hoping there was someone else involved but obviously all the evidence points to Benoit doing it. Vince really had no other choice but to erase Benoit totally from the WWE so I can't blame him for that. Benoit was one of the all time greats but unfortunately there is no way the WWE would want to associate themselves with a man who murdered his wife and child. I know there's the issue with his brain being messed up at the time and he didn't know what he was doing but there's no way the WWE could use that as an excuse if they chose to put him in the HOF and keep his name within the WWE. As far as MJ is concerned, he was found not guilty and what he was accused of was not as awful as murdering your wife and your own child. Having said that, I really thought MJ was messed up with alot of the things he done. For example saying that it was ok to take kids to bed with you, the incredibly disgusting plastic surgery he got done to himself...ugh. Anyway he was a great singer/performer so I guess that's really what people do respect him for.
Similar threads
