In Their Prime (Part I) Shawn Michaels VS Dolph Ziggler

[Midnite Express 2009]

We've all heard how Dolph Ziggler has been compared to Shawn Michaels (whether or not those comparisons are accurate isn't really the subject) and so I'm wondering, if there was one match between these two and both men were in their primes, who would win and why? Let's say it's about 20 years ago, which would bring us to 1993, the start of the Shawn Michaels era in the WWF. Dolph can remain who he is as far as age and his rise as well. Again, who wins, especially if the WWF/E title was on the line? And how would that one match go on to define the winner's career?

 

[uvx]

Shawn would win, simply because he is the greatest of all time.
And HBK was in his prime just before he broke his back, not 93.

 

[Brewski]

You understand who wins matches is scripted right? Whoever makes more sense to win would win. Probably Shawn because he was a bigger star.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Shawn would win, simply because he is the greatest of all time.
And HBK was in his prime just before he broke his back, not 93.

How'd you figure HBK is the greatest of all time? You've been watching too many WWE DVDs, feeding you this exact line time and time again.

In terms of who would win - this is wrestling, it's fake. I'm guessing Shawn would since he was and is deeper up McMahon's ass than Ziggler ever will be.

 

[jholcomb22]

The biggest problem with this post is we don't even know what Dolph's prime is. I have a feeling his next three years are going to be something special. It is way to early to be having this debate. Shawn in his prime or 5 years past it would wrestle circles around Ziggler at this point.

 

[kcoe24]

Shawn cause there is money to be had in him. There is not money to be had in Dolph at the moment (I assume you mean dolph's prime is now). Crowds loved and hated Shawn cause he was a face or a heel. outside of smark crowds. Crowds don't care about Ziggler. and HBK was a better wrestler. Greatest ever no but better than Dolph.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

I don't get all of the comparisons Ziggler gets these days... I appreciate his work ethic and his ability to sell moves... But that's about all he has. He's cringe-worthy on the microphone. I never thought I would be sad to see Vickie Guerrero leave his side, and was admittedly one of the people that thought she was holding him back... but since Vickie has left Dolph his appeal has went down(at least for me).

The guy is a great athlete but he doesn't do anything that really sets him apart from the rest of the ladder climbers on the current roster.

On to topic, Dolph isn't anywhere close to Shawn Michaels(even in 1993). The main difference between Michaels and Dolph is everything Shawn did seemed natural and fluid. Shawn knew when to sell big, and didn't when it wasn't necessary. Dolph will sell big for anybody and in my opinion that hurts him. Plus everything Ziggler does seems really forced. I'm just not a big fan of him. I would compare Ziggler more to Barry Horowitz than Shawn Michaels.

 

[Midnite Express 2009]

The reason why I choose 1993 was because Shawn was just about to take off at that point. He was young, fresh, cocky with a new personality after he split The Rockers and so on. And yes, I do understand it's fake, it's scripted, it's wrestling, etc etc. I am simply asking who would you book to go over in a match if it were between 15-20 years ago, starting in 1993---but it doesn't have to be the Shawn Michaels of 1993 per say. Just the "prime of his career" Shawn Michaels, pre back injury.

Dolph Ziggler yes, still has a ways to go as far as reaching Shawn Michaels' status IMO, but who else is even in the same ballpark right now, comparatively speaking? I think that's why all the comparisons are being heaped upon him (fair or unfair). I would say, if it were 1993 Shawn Michaels, he'd certainly get booked over today's Dolph Ziggler because I'm not too sure you can build a company around Ziggler just yet. Shawn WAS the face of the WWF for years until Austin came along (of course Bret Hart was in the same situation, and was a great performer). Ziggler, he's #3 at best right now, and that's being generous. Shawn was himself, seems Ziggler is actually trying to be Shawn Michaels (i.e. managers, cocky attitude, bodyguards, etc) instead of being himself.

 

[sajsSAMynwa1892]

I don't get this thread, who would win? Whoever Vince wanted to win obviously. The general point of comparing Ziggler to Michaels i also disagree with, Ziggler bumps big more like Mr Perfect than Michaels. If you mean Ziggler is the best now or will be as good as Michaels, i have to say that is a bit presumptious. Firstly he has more than a long way to go to be as good as Michaels, who is without doubt the best performer of all time(not technical wrestler but performer). Secondly he is not the best in WWE or the world right now, last year he was outperformed in the WWE by Bryan and Punk, in TNA by Hardy and in particular Aries, in NWJP and DDT by Ibushi, Tanahashi, Nakamura and Okada, and in ROH by Steen. I think Ziggler may at one point be able to call himself one of if not the best, but not now, making this thread moot IMO. Actually if it was moot i wouldn't of commented would i hehe

 

[Radical Canadian Goose]

Great, another Dolph Ziggler thread. Wow, Dolph Ziggler is the greatest, I have never seen anybody like him. He always puts on the match of the night. When I grow up I want to be just like Dolph.

Ok now seriously, enough... ENOUGH. We all get that Dolph has the potential to be the future of the business (I'm leaning towards lifetime upper/midcarder) and we get that 2013 could be the year of Dolph (please no).
Who would win between Michaels and Dolph in their prime? Really, this question should be asked when Doph has retired (hopefully by next year) because we seriously don't know if he has really peaked yet

Also, another point that I wanted to make was that the mic skills between the two are not even comparable. Why do you think Dolph needed Vickie and now AJ by his side.

And I also agree with most others who said, You do know that Vince and creative makes the call?

 

[THE Great GAMMA]

How'd you figure HBK is the greatest of all time? You've been watching too many WWE DVDs, feeding you this exact line time and time again.

In terms of who would win - this is wrestling, it's fake. I'm guessing Shawn would since he was and is deeper up McMahon's ass than Ziggler ever will be.

1993-1996 No one out performed HBK in a big match environment. This is proven in him winning Match of the year from various publications from 93-96 consecutively. win lose or draw in his prime no one could touch HBK in terms of in ring performance in his prime hell even after his prime 04-2010 he won match of the year every single year.

As for Dolph vs HBK both in their primes...the winner would be....the fans. If they were allowed to work thier own match it would just be amazing to watch regardless of who wins.

 

[The Life Of Pablo Ren]

Well, the thing is... has Dolph hit his prime yet? I don't think he has, maybe this time next year, he'll be in his prime... Dolph while his in-ring work is mostly there, I feel still needs a bit more time before we can consider him to be in his prime.

Based on today's Ziggler and HBK in his prime, Shawn wins, no doubt.

 

[SD619]

Remember HBK vs Shelton Benjamin? HBK vs Ziggler will be more or less the same. It will be a very athletic match with a few exciting spots and Shawn seemingly in trouble for the middle portion of the match, and then Sweet Chin Music, 1-2-3.

 

[enviousdominous]

I think it's too early to be asking this question.

I see Dolph as more of a Curt Henning than a Shawn Michaels.

Curt we all remember never truly reached the limits of his potential, I believe that this was because Hogan wasn't about to sell to anyone from AWA.

Fast forward 25 years, we have Dolph at the mercy of Cena or whatever mainstay they want Dolph to put a shine on.

Of course Dolph would lose today, he's the kind of heel who doesn't sacrifice his marketability when he loses. I think that if the crowd warms up to him and he's allowed a clean finish to marquee match, he'll have truly realized his potential and we can start asking how he would fare against other big names in their prime.


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[j2dlyc]

Ill buck the trend and say Ziggler. Michaels is a huge star and one of the best ever, but he got as far as he did because of who he was and who he knew, rather than what he was. Without the clique, Michaels arguably would never have reached the lofty heights he reached. Ziggler, to his credit has reached his position with seemingly no backstage favour guiding him. Take VKM out of the picture and pitch the two against each other based purely on who they are and I say Ziggler edges it.

 

[BaconBits]

Shawn would obviously be booked to win. He would probably make Dolph look good/great along the way, but he's still winning, and that's a guarantee. He was the face of the company in his prime, and Dolph isn't even close to that level at the current time.

That said...

Could you imagine the match between these two? Holy fuck imagine the flopping. If they did a move where they hit each other at the same time they'd be looking like two fried eggs flipping around in the middle of the ring. (even better, imagine how awesome it would be if they were having epileptic fits of rage in the middle of the ring and Scotty Too Hotty came in the ring and did the worm in between them). If Shawn got Zig Zagged, he'd flip and flop and roll and shit and he'd end up hanging from the lights in the rafters. When Dolph took Sweet Chin Music, he'd end up seizing his way three towns over. Imagine if a non-wrestling fan happened to catch a glimpse of that... they'd be appalled that Vince McMahon had the cojones to make fun of epileptics.

 

[HellBoundPower]

I think that watching these two go at it in their primes (though I don't think Dolph has hit his prime yet) would be a fun match to watch. They're both great in the ring, both can sell well, as well as dish it out. They would put on a helluva contest and would have the fans eating out of the palm of their hands. The winner would definitely be the fans, and I'm sure Shawn would get the 1, 2, 3.

 

[WrestlingSabermetrics]

HBK had a quicker ascension into his prime and Dolph is yet to get there (when looking back ten years from now, it'll probably be '14-'18), so if we were to book them both in their primes I'd have HBK win simply because he got to the top faster and I'd be impressed by that. If we booked HBK at his peak we wouldn't technically know that it was his peak and what the backside of his career would be like. Thus, I'd see more potential in him. That's not to say Dolph isn't great, I think he's one of the best in the WWE right now. It's just, in this hypothetical prime bubble, I'd be more inclined to pick HBK.

 

[wrestlingfan]

Thing is alot of people will say HBK became the legend he is after he came back from his first retirement, and that was maybe when his best matches and feuds came out.

Honestly don't see the Ziggler-HBK comparisons. Ziggler reminds me more of a Ric Flair/Mr. Perfect. John Morrison reminds me of HBK.

 

[PsychoBlack]

Shawn would win, simply because he is the greatest of all time.
And HBK was in his prime just before he broke his back, not 93.

Shawn's not the greatest of all time. Not even top 10.

Now that that's out the way Shawn is MILES ahead of anything that Ziggler has done to this point. Ziggler is a glorified mid carder, and while Shawn isn't exactly my favorite he was a legit star unlike Ziggles who can't get over the hump. He's had multiple chances to be at the top and each time he's failed so until Ziggler finally climbs over that hump it's HBK all day here.

 

[Moneyinc]

Shawn's not the greatest of all time. Not even top 10.

Now that that's out the way Shawn is MILES ahead of anything that Ziggler has done to this point. Ziggler is a glorified mid carder, and while Shawn isn't exactly my favorite he was a legit star unlike Ziggles who can't get over the hump. He's had multiple chances to be at the top and each time he's failed so until Ziggler finally climbs over that hump it's HBK all day here.

Very arguable when you consider how exciting the Rockers matches were and how important he was to the company all the way up until he blew up and won the title from Bret Hart. Rockers matches were always one of the most exciting on the card. No matter what character Shawn took to he did it very well. Wrestlemania 9 against Tatanka, Summerslam 92 against Martel. When shawn was asked to be an undercarder he was the best at it, and when he was asked to be a main eventer, he was damn near the best at it. To say he isn't top ten is a bolder statement than to say he is. Especially considering his in ring capabilities are pretty much as good or better as his brilliant characters that will always be remembered. HBK, the Rockers, DX. There aren't many wrestlers if any that have done more as far as building characters and showing versatility when it comes to building characters. His in ring work as a Rocker was as Graceful as you will ever see from an American professional Wrestler and it continued for a long, long time.

Back on topic.

Dolph has a waaaays to go. He has to prove that he has the ability to get the crowd 100 percent behind him. One thing I love about Dolph is he sounds like Owen Hart a little bit on the mic. I'm sure he studies Owen tapes. Dolph just seems to be a student of the old school. The way he sells getting punched is almost identical to Mr. Perfect. The royal rumble saves from where he held on to the ropes like Perfect and HBK used to do gave me a nostalgia trip. I see more Perfect in him than HBK except for the Super kick he has been using.

Dolph is not in his prime. He seems on a very similar rode that HBK was on as a heel. The crowd wasn't really sure what to think. They knew they had a star but they also knew that they didn't really like his personality too much. All it is going to take is one great story line, and Dolph to keep improving his Mic and ring work, and he will blow up. Everybody with a keen eye for old school WWE talent can see that Dolph is the next big thing. His vest with the spikes at Royal Rumble was awesome as were his Show Off shorts. It is interesting to me how well WWE is marketing his look compared to how terrible they do with some of the others like 3MB. It makes me think that Dolph has his own say in clothing designs and stuff like that which would be a very good sign for him having good taste.

What people forget is how much better guys like HBK got especially on the MIC. Go watch a Rockers promo. Shawn wasn't terrible but those promos were so much more one dimensional than the ones later in his career. Smart guys in this business have the ability to get better with literally every promo. If you keep learning and working at it, you can make yourself a star (as long as you've got the look/skills)

The ONLY thing about Dolph is he seems to be a better heel than face. Kinda like Owen Hart and Mr Perfect in the way that they are better showing a smerky attitude. Characters like this are rarely faces in the WWE. It is one thing to be a bad ass with a bad attitude and turn face, it is another to be an annoying little Owen Hart like runt and turn face. We will see what happens.