If It Weren't For The Demons: Jake Roberts And Scott Hall/Razor Ramon

[Mitch Henessey]

These two wrestlers had hot streaks back in the day. Okay well maybe Razor Ramon/Scott Hall was more hot than Jake Roberts, but both of these guys had some good runs in the world of pro wrestling back then. But we all now these two also had demons that plagued them outside the ring. Scott Hall has had his infidelities, and drug and alcohol abuse, and on the other hand Roberts has also had his bouts with drugs and alcohol. Roberts also had to deal with tragedy of his sister being murdered. Let's take a look at the highlights of both of their careers:

• Jake "The Snake" Roberts- The creator of the DDT, and one of Taker's Wrestlemania victims, was always known for his extensive ring psychology. Robert's promos were chilling to watch because he displayed that dark charisma. He's had feuds with Andre The Giant, Ted Dibase, and the Macho Man. I've heard in countless interviews(like Jim Ross in Beyond The Mat) that Roberst's ring psychology was so good, he could've been a lot more than he was in his prime.
• Scott Hall/Razor Ramon- The "Bad Guy" played the role to perfection during his time in WWF. He was HBK's opponent in the now famous ladder match from Wrestlemania 10. He was apart of the Clique, and had some good runs as IC champ. Then he became Scott Hall once he jumped ship to WCW, along with felow Outsider Kevin Nash. He was one of the original memebers of the NWO, and was still played the "Bad Guy" role pretty damn good. He won the US title twice, was a seven time WCW tag team champion, and was WCW world TV Champ. He was also a two time world champion, once for WWC and once for USWA, and was also a tag team champ along with Curt Henning in AWA.

Now I know Scott Hall has all the gold, but Jake Roberts was still a notable star back in the day. Razor Ramon had his toothpicks, and gold, while Jake Roberts would terrorize people with snakes. What I want to know is, If not for their demons, where would would Scott Hall and Jake Roberts be now? Would they be apart of WWE? Would they still be wrestling on a regular basis? Over the past couple of years, Scott Hall and Jake Roberts have popped up in TNA every now and then, and Scott had a brief run in TNA from 2002-2005, but nothing really worth remebering. And Scott Hall has said, "He's too old to be changing his ways", but If not for the demons, maybe Scott Hall could be TNA legends champ right now? Maybe Jake Roberts could be a road agent for WWE? What are your thoughts?

 

[byrnside]

You bring up a very good point. I think Scott Hall could still be wrestling, but Jake would probably be way too old to do it. As far as the two guys in their prime, I'd take Jake Roberts any day of the week. The guy's promos and ring psychology were second to none. I for one, never understood why he wasn't a contender for at least the intercontinental strap in his WWE stint. It's a shame that neither of these guys have been able to beat their "demons" as you say. Jake could be such a valuable asset to the WWE as a road agent.

 

[No Count Pup]

Without his demons, Razor Ramon could have been THE BIGGEST STAR of the 1990s. Where would he be today if not for his various problems? He'd probably be a WWE commentator. I doubt he would be a road agent. His personality and gimmick would have been too awesome to be kept behind the scenes. A person with Ramon's charisma would be a prominent on-screen role in today's WWE.

Ramon could have been a multi-time WWE or WCW World Champion. It's a shame that it never happened. However, I was glad to read that he won a world title in 2007 (the WWC Universal Heavyweight Championship).

Jake Roberts could have been as big as Stone Cold or Randy Orton. He did things his own way, without regard to authority. In that sense, he was very Austinesque. Roberts was also a master ring psychologist, much like Orton. Imagine a match between Roberts in his prime and Orton in his prime.

Like Ramon, Roberts could have been a multi-time WWE Champion. Unfortunately, that never came to past.

What would Roberts be doing today? He would probably do the same thing I suspect Ramon would be doing. He'd be a commentator. Who knows, maybe even a GM. Either way, he'd play a prominent on-screen role.

 

[Jobber Bob]

we all are aware that scott hall has probelms with alcohol. we all know he is viewed

mainly as a drunk. and being 51 many people have given up on him, thinking he has no

more potential and will just make things worse, i too thought the same way until i

watched his new youtube series called "Last Call With Scott Hall", watching that it made

me realise he still has the caresmah he had in his prime. sure he isnt in great shape, but

he could be perfect for color commenter. if you havnt seen the show. watch it, and you

will see exactly were im coming from.

 

[BladeRunner]

Ok, maybe this is just me playing devil's advocate, heh. But as people, everyone's got flaws. Some are alcoholics, some are thieves, some are lousy dancers. But what I'm saying is, these 2 guys are a combination of some good and bad things. But without everything there is about them, the totality, they may not have gotten as far as they did. Like maybe some of the things we all label bad are actually some things that gave them that extra push that led them to where they were? I don't know, I'm just saying.

Like for example, someone who's obsessive compulsive, we might label as needs help, but that also might be the reason their house is so clean . I'm just saying sometimes the things we call flaws can also be the very things that work to people's advantage.

Yeah those guys have had hard lives and I feel for em. But I wouldn't trade the memories of em, flaws and all, for the world.

 

[Mitch Henessey]

Without his demons, Razor Ramon could have been THE BIGGEST STAR of the 1990s. Where would he be today if not for his various problems? He'd probably be a WWE commentator. I doubt he would be a road agent. His personality and gimmick would have been too awesome to be kept behind the scenes. A person with Ramon's charisma would a prominent on-screen role in today's WWE.

Ramon could have been a multi-time WWE or WCW World Champion. It's a shame that it never happened.

He definitely had the potential to be the biggest star of the 90's. He had the perfect character, the look, and loads of charisma to match. Lots of people forget how popular Razor Ramon was during his time in WWF. I to would've loved to see Razor be a WWE or WCW champion. Think of the promos, and segments that could've been between Razor, Stone Cold, or The Rock, if he had stuck around in WWF.

 

[waylonmercy]

Ok, Scott Hall was very good but definitely had NO chance of being a top star. He had great charisma and was a good worker but never showed that flair to be top notch. Jake Roberts was great in his day but also was not main event caliber. Having great ring psychology and promos didn't make you a main eventer in WWF of the 80's. Hulk Hogan ruled the WWF 80's. Jake Roberts would have had to be roided up to get to that main event spot.

That's just my opinion.

 

[Midnite Express 2009]

While everyone agrees that Jake Roberts was a great mind general, he wrestled in the era and same company of one, Hulk Hogan. The WWF was stocked and loaded with talent that while not on par with the NWA at their height, was still able to overshadow certain other stars. Jake was doomed to be where he was at because of the fact that Hogan was the show. Now, had Jake maybe moved back to the NWA and had a feud with Flair, then HE'D be listed as one of the NWA World Heavyweight Champions instead of Ronnie Freakin Garvin (I still don't get what Dusty was thinking then)...

As for Scott Hall he was basically destined to be in the nWo. But let's just suppose he never left the WWF. Then more than likely he would have been at the same exact place he was at when he left, a four time I-C champ and nothing more. He could have possibly been in DX but I honestly think it wouldn't have worked so good as it did with the younger Hunter.

So basically they are where they are not because of their demons but just time and circumstances. At least IMO

 

[smalltownfan]

If it had not been for the demons, Jake Roberts would be in the WWE Hall of Fame and/or be a great mentor or manager to someone like, oh I don't know, the Undertaker or Randy Orton. In his prime, Jake Roberts was one of the most demented people to ever step in a wrestling ring. Randy Orton reminds me a lot of Jake these days. Jake "heard voices in his head" long before Orton did. His promos were bone-chilling and he could strike from anywhere at anytime just like a snake.

Scott Hall, although I'm not sure about the HOF, would have been awesome if he would have just said No. He could have ridden off into the sunset after his NWO days or even returned to WWE and joined HHH in whatever group he was leading or step in to help HBK every now and then. I remember Scott when he was in AWA and the guy was chiseled. He leaned up and became Razor Ramon and I will never forget his NWO run. He could very well be in TNA right now with Kevin Nash if he had his act straight because look at what Nash has done. He's a new man and is in perhaps the best shape of his career. Scott could have been right beside him, but now he may be too far gone to be helped at all.

 

[PEP3]

SCOTT HALL
Personally, I don't think there would be anything different about Razor Ramon's resume up until about five years ago. To be honest, I don't think his "demons" kept him from anything during his run in WWE. He was one of the federation's top stars during his hey-day, earning a place in history as the first man to hold the IC title more than twice. He made history again as the co-originator of the Ladder match in WWE. I don't think his struggles with addiction kept him from achieving anything.

His excesses really started to show themselves later in WCW, but again, I don't think he would have ever been more there than he was. They pushed him to the moon, putting him in the main event (but not World title) level of the company for several years. He did everything EXCEPT win the World title in both federations. That's pretty damn good by anyone's standards.

In the case of Hall, I think it's where his alcoholism has taken him MORE RECENTLY that's the real problem. Clearly he's unable to be a reliable employee, a team player or able-bodied worker NOW. That means that while he MIGHT have still had a few good years of main-event level pushes in him (a la Kevin Nash), he's been sidelined and relegated to obscurity. At this point, even if he cleaned up his act, Hall is past his prime.

 

[PEP3]

JAKE ROBERTS
As several people have said, Roberts' demons weren't what kept him from achieving greater success in the WWF, it was the way the company booked its matches during that era. Remember, when Roberts was working for the company, title reigns meant significantly MORE than they do today. Not only did champions hold titles for much longer periods of time, 90% of the wrestlers coming into the company would never see WWF gold. (Whereas in this day and age, it's hard to find a guy on the WWE roster who HASN'T had a title at some point.)

That said, Jake was just one of countless other incredible talents who toiled in the WWF midcard without ever getting a sustained main-event level push or taste of championship success. It doesn't mean any of these people weren't unbelievably talented, didn't have significant untapped potential or wouldn't have made amazing champs. They simply never got booked to have the belt(s).

On a much more personal note, Jake Roberts, before he was recruited to WWF and even during his early days in Stamford, was my absolute favorite wrestler. I followed him from his days in the Mid-Atlantic region as part of the Legion of Doom, through his time in the the old Mid-South region and his feud with "Dirty" Dick Slater (which saw Jake famously DDT Slater's valet, Dark Journey, after being "blinded" by spray paint in his face) right up to his debut in WWF. I remember when he used to wrestle in what looked like pajama pants (or maybe hospital scrubs). In fact, I thought he "sold out" when he started wrestling in those fancy spandex tights with snakes on 'em.

Like Hall, I think that Jake's addiction issues really play a prominent part in what he's doing today. While I can't say for sure that he couldn't have achieved more at his prime if he wasn't strung out, I can strongly suspect that if he had his act together today, he'd make an excellent manager for any number of up-and-coming heels. With his promo skills, I'd bet he could get nearly ANYONE over!