Well, my title says it all. Back when Randy, Batista, Triple H, And Flair were all together. HHH and Flair didn't really need a big push. But Randy and Batista are another story. It skyrocketed there career. And every now and then you can hear on commenting, "remember the good ole' days when he was a part of evolution?" anyway... if it helped give younger talent to superstars, why is TNA having Kazarian and AJ join into fortune? I can see them as the to veterans with more experience, like Ric and Triple H did, however, evolution helped out all of the superstars. I honestly cannot see AJ and Kaz teaming together and working with younger stars to give them a bigger push. Now, unless Flair gets two or three younger stars who need a push, that would be different. But otherwise, I cannot see fortune helping any of the current roster. Those are just my thoughts, what are yours?
If Evolution could do it, why can't Fortune?
- Thread starter Kaelthes
- Start date
16mikeytot
DAMN My Ex-Gf just got implants!!!
Well you can't really compare the two stables because one of them is in WWE and the other is in TNA. But to your point of comparing the stables lets see Triple H was arguably the top guy in the company at the point well raw (Lesnar on smackdown) I don't think you can compare A.j Styles to Triple H. Lets see Orton was going to become a star regardless if he was in evolution or not then you have Kazarian a guy who was told to put on a costume a guy who's very bland. Evolution really just made Batista in my mind as I heard he was going to get released but apparently Triple H had faith in him. I don't think you can compare the stables WWE is a yacht while TNA is a little sailboat. Even if Fortune is successful I don't think it will be mentioned as all time great just because Flair leads the stable. Fortune will be no Evolution.
Randy Orton's success is a fluke. I really think he's a case of everyone else is so bad he looks good and you can thank Evolution for that.
As for comparing Fortune to Evolution? We don't have any official members yet so I have to reserve Judgement. As for the most likely lineup of
Beer Money - Doesn't need the rub but now they won't constantly in the tag title picture I hope.
Desmond Wolfe - He can slowly become Nigel again if booked right in his role.
AJ - Will end up being the first person ejected from the group, and then be it's biggest nemesis. Good way to end a mediocre heel turn although it was his best heel run yet, just badly timed.
Kaz - Has the most to gain from being in this group. Perhaps Flair can help legitimize him and have people take him seriously. It's a shame that he's as good as he is but can't get the fans behind him. He can use any high profile exposure he can get.
The one thing we know for sure is this group will probably be more like the Original 4 Horsemen than Evolution ever was. Flair is on fire right now, if TNA continues to allow him the room to be the real Ric Flair, his stable will benefit from it.
As for comparing Fortune to Evolution? We don't have any official members yet so I have to reserve Judgement. As for the most likely lineup of
Beer Money - Doesn't need the rub but now they won't constantly in the tag title picture I hope.
Desmond Wolfe - He can slowly become Nigel again if booked right in his role.
AJ - Will end up being the first person ejected from the group, and then be it's biggest nemesis. Good way to end a mediocre heel turn although it was his best heel run yet, just badly timed.
Kaz - Has the most to gain from being in this group. Perhaps Flair can help legitimize him and have people take him seriously. It's a shame that he's as good as he is but can't get the fans behind him. He can use any high profile exposure he can get.
The one thing we know for sure is this group will probably be more like the Original 4 Horsemen than Evolution ever was. Flair is on fire right now, if TNA continues to allow him the room to be the real Ric Flair, his stable will benefit from it.
The Scarred One
The Greatest of All Time
Other than being inspired by the Four Horsemen, Evolution and Fortune have nothing in common.
Evolution represented the past, present and future of the WWE while Fortune seems more like the future of TNA.
Triple H and Ric Flair have already established themselves long before Evolution, but Randy Orton and Batista needed the rub from them desperately to have futures in WWE. Orton would've struggled without Evolution and Batista probably would've been fired. To me, Evolution was the perfect stable because everybody involved benefited. With a lot of stables in the past, only a few members saw tremendous success following their involvement. But they all came out winners in Evolution. Triple H did his part in creating new stars for the next couple of years while Flair remained relevant with his involvement. As for Orton and Batista, those two have proven to be big names since breaking away from the group.
Fortune, on the other had, seems more like the Four Horsemen when they first started out with Flair, Tully Blanchard, Arn Anderson and Ole Anderson. They were all pretty much young or yet-to-be established guys looking for their big break back then. The same goes with the likes of AJ Styles, Kazarian, Desmond Wolfe and Beer Money. Now, Styles has established himself as the face of the promotion and will always be considered a hero in the eyes of the TNA faithful, despite his lukewarm heel run. Kazarian is bland as bland can be and could most definitely use the rub from the group. Wolfe can go in the ring and could use a rub similar to Kazarian, especially since he's been booked like a punk once Hogan and Bischoff came in. Beer Money work great as a tag team and could use a little extra polish as well.
Evolution represented the past, present and future of the WWE while Fortune seems more like the future of TNA.
Triple H and Ric Flair have already established themselves long before Evolution, but Randy Orton and Batista needed the rub from them desperately to have futures in WWE. Orton would've struggled without Evolution and Batista probably would've been fired. To me, Evolution was the perfect stable because everybody involved benefited. With a lot of stables in the past, only a few members saw tremendous success following their involvement. But they all came out winners in Evolution. Triple H did his part in creating new stars for the next couple of years while Flair remained relevant with his involvement. As for Orton and Batista, those two have proven to be big names since breaking away from the group.
Fortune, on the other had, seems more like the Four Horsemen when they first started out with Flair, Tully Blanchard, Arn Anderson and Ole Anderson. They were all pretty much young or yet-to-be established guys looking for their big break back then. The same goes with the likes of AJ Styles, Kazarian, Desmond Wolfe and Beer Money. Now, Styles has established himself as the face of the promotion and will always be considered a hero in the eyes of the TNA faithful, despite his lukewarm heel run. Kazarian is bland as bland can be and could most definitely use the rub from the group. Wolfe can go in the ring and could use a rub similar to Kazarian, especially since he's been booked like a punk once Hogan and Bischoff came in. Beer Money work great as a tag team and could use a little extra polish as well.
FozzyRocks2009
Dark Match Winner
Evolution could do it because they had HHH to carry Flair and the faction. Ric Flair sucks he is old, should be retired not wrestling AGAIN. He is a hasbeen probably the hasbeen of hasbeens. Having Flair start and run a new faction at his age is like putting a trolling motor in a race car and telling it to run the Daytona 500.....and at lap 2 it goes boom! And just to throw salt in a wound Flair tapped out his own move what a loser. I never saw HHH lose to a pedigree!
Dum Dum Dudley
Alberto Del Rio's English Announcer
I think Evolution's dynamic was the key difference. Legendary mouthpiece (Flair), top guy in the company (HHH), young powerhouse (Batista) and young rookie (Orton). I look at Fortune and I struggle to find a like for like, and I love it. Beer Money can't be split into these catergories, which I think is great, as they are as close to an old-school tag team as we'll see today.
I can't see AJ in the HHH role because he's in the Jericho role; he flutters between the divisions and does the business where needed.
Ric Flair will always be Ric Flair and will continue to be the mouthpiece but I would love to see the dynamic shaken up. I'm all for Desmond Wolfe being the 'Randy Orton' of the group (despite the age gap) but I think Beer Money play such a vital role in Fortune that you can't just straight up compare Fortune to Evolution.
I can't see AJ in the HHH role because he's in the Jericho role; he flutters between the divisions and does the business where needed.
Ric Flair will always be Ric Flair and will continue to be the mouthpiece but I would love to see the dynamic shaken up. I'm all for Desmond Wolfe being the 'Randy Orton' of the group (despite the age gap) but I think Beer Money play such a vital role in Fortune that you can't just straight up compare Fortune to Evolution.
It's Damn Real!
The undisputed, undefeated TNA &
Slightly different dynamic, to be honest, but I don't doubt that Fortune can be somewhat similar to what Evolution was able to accomplish in that it'll help push younger talent, but I doubt two of those spots will go to top-level performers the way they did with Flair & HHH for Evolution unless you count AJ and either member of Beer Money, Inc. (presuming any of the three make it) as those top-level performers on the same level as Flair or HHH at the time.
Nothing against BMI or AJ, but I wouldn't put them at that level just yet.
Nothing against BMI or AJ, but I wouldn't put them at that level just yet.
The Prod1gy
WCW Cruiserweight Champion
You cant really make any comparisons yet considering the stable has not being put together yet, also that is some big shoes to fill if you are already hoping for them to be ANYTHING like Evolution.
Evolution was a one time stable, like The 4 Horseman. Trying to duplicate a classic stable never works. Look at Legacy, Main Event Mafia etc. I am not trying to shit on Fortune before it starts but it seems it is destined to fail.
Again, I know I am sounding harsh by saying it is destined to fail but I believe it is just due to the fact of how long it has taken and is taking to put the stable together, also the two main leaders Aj and Kazarian cannot stand eachother.
The stable could succeed but I honestly don't believe it will be remembered as a successful stable.
Evolution was a one time stable, like The 4 Horseman. Trying to duplicate a classic stable never works. Look at Legacy, Main Event Mafia etc. I am not trying to shit on Fortune before it starts but it seems it is destined to fail.
Again, I know I am sounding harsh by saying it is destined to fail but I believe it is just due to the fact of how long it has taken and is taking to put the stable together, also the two main leaders Aj and Kazarian cannot stand eachother.
The stable could succeed but I honestly don't believe it will be remembered as a successful stable.
Well I don't know why people point at Beer Money. They aren't in the group. And it seems they won't be. I see it as a way to solidify AJ Styles, because signs of discention are already showing there. A way to give some character to Kazarian, who really needs it. And Desmond Wolfe's ticket to fame. He has been Ric Flair one true enforcer for the past 4 months. Helping him with every beat down possible. It's already placed him on a story against Samoa Joe and it might include Rob Terry, which means the possibility of Wolfe getting the Global title. One thing missing to see how it will go and that's who will be the 4th Horseman?
Evolution and Fortune aren't the same. DX and the 4 Horsemen weren't the same. Don't compare stable's because their objectives and dynamics are never gonna be the same. Just look at The Legacy and how "well" it went.
Evolution and Fortune aren't the same. DX and the 4 Horsemen weren't the same. Don't compare stable's because their objectives and dynamics are never gonna be the same. Just look at The Legacy and how "well" it went.
WaldoBrown
Dark Match Winner
when evolution came up i watched wrestling in a completely different way i LOATHED evolution or evil lotion as i always called them they always had the world title and whenever someone would come close to beating hhh ric flair or batista or orton would come out and cause hhh to win, it was bullsnit but now i dont watch wrestling like that i read the dirt sheets and half the time i know whats going to happen except for raw, so i cant really think of fortune having as big of an impact to me as it seems not only i but the rest of the wrestling world has grown up now i hope this new faction wont be as bad as the mem or angles little doowap with tomko and aj styles and will actually put over new main event players by teaming them with kaz and styles and as im lookin at the tna roster page to help me think of (imo) the two or three best choices (why is daniels, hall, and xpac still on the roster page?) but anyway i think they should put kiyoshi in there or that other new puro guy okada who might be playing suicide at some point (idk tna is so inconsitsent) or even orlando jordan who was getting great heat (although i did find it a little racy that they attracted heat to him by having him be gay) maybe cut the gay part out and put him in there or even the young bucks idk tna has so many under used ppl hell even magnus and ive never even seen him wrestle lol well i probly have idk is he any good
If I am correct, at the last paper view, it was a tag match... if AJ and Kaz won they would be a fortune member. That is what I was saying when I meant they have more experience, both former champions and high flyers. They also have some potential to be "leaders"....
Quotation from an idiot
If Evolution could do... 07-13-2010 01:45 AM Milkyway! That first comment, very well could have been the DUMBEST thing I have EVER seen on this site. That unfortunately is saying something. Moron.
Hey Asshole, if you have an opinion, share it with all of us. Let me show you how
Fuck Randy Orton, and Fuck you for negative repping me because I said he was shit. He is, get over it
He started out as a face fighting Bob Holly, joined raw to face another marquee name Steven Richards and low and behold he's 5 months into his career injured already.
He wasn't shit in Evolution but HHH's errand boy and enforcer, then became a legend killer because Hunter got HBK to lay down for his buddy. I could go on but I don't have time to talk about the dude who stole the diamond cutter from another overrated piece of crap. The highlight of his career was winning the Title the first time and getting pwned by Batista afterward.
Hell he's so boring I actually cheer for Cena when they face each other.
I want you to show me how great he is Milky, I'd love to get into the shit he had to say about Eddie Guerrro, his suspension and taking shit's in peoples bags.
If Evolution could do... 07-13-2010 01:45 AM Milkyway! That first comment, very well could have been the DUMBEST thing I have EVER seen on this site. That unfortunately is saying something. Moron.
Hey Asshole, if you have an opinion, share it with all of us. Let me show you how
Fuck Randy Orton, and Fuck you for negative repping me because I said he was shit. He is, get over it
He started out as a face fighting Bob Holly, joined raw to face another marquee name Steven Richards and low and behold he's 5 months into his career injured already.
He wasn't shit in Evolution but HHH's errand boy and enforcer, then became a legend killer because Hunter got HBK to lay down for his buddy. I could go on but I don't have time to talk about the dude who stole the diamond cutter from another overrated piece of crap. The highlight of his career was winning the Title the first time and getting pwned by Batista afterward.
Hell he's so boring I actually cheer for Cena when they face each other.
I want you to show me how great he is Milky, I'd love to get into the shit he had to say about Eddie Guerrro, his suspension and taking shit's in peoples bags.
The 1-2-3 Killam
Mid-Card Championship Winner
Fortune can do everything that Evolution did, and with the help of Ric Flair they can probably be the best thing...on TNA. But Fortune isn't going to get to the heights that Evolution did, simply because they're in TNA. This isn't an anti-TNA post by any means don't worry.
Evolution was the biggest thing in WWE for a very long time, and people remember them because of that. Evolution made Randy Orton and Batista, and it took Triple H to a new level of awesome. Ric Flair and the boys backstage may have the skills to take Fortune to that level, building Kazarian and...whoever, and making AJ a more credible main eventer, but...in TNA they're not going to get to the same level of popularity. They may be the biggest thing in TNA, but...it's not the same stage. Also, at the time WWE was ripe for the picking when it comes to a new faction. But in TNA, factions have been everything for the last two years it seems like. I dont' remember a time when a group of people didn't somehow control the fate of the product. If Fortune wants to get the attention of the fans, they need to uncover new ground. They need to do something different that the Main Event Maffia, the Hogan/Bishoff regime vs. Sting thing, and all the other groups did. Hopefully Fortune won't be about taking over TNA. It won't be a political manuever... I'm hoping that it's just about being the best and proving it to the world, or something like that. But still...TNA isn't at the point where a faction is going to be new and exciting. But that's what Flair is good at isn't it? And that's what they'll use him for...
Evolution was the biggest thing in WWE for a very long time, and people remember them because of that. Evolution made Randy Orton and Batista, and it took Triple H to a new level of awesome. Ric Flair and the boys backstage may have the skills to take Fortune to that level, building Kazarian and...whoever, and making AJ a more credible main eventer, but...in TNA they're not going to get to the same level of popularity. They may be the biggest thing in TNA, but...it's not the same stage. Also, at the time WWE was ripe for the picking when it comes to a new faction. But in TNA, factions have been everything for the last two years it seems like. I dont' remember a time when a group of people didn't somehow control the fate of the product. If Fortune wants to get the attention of the fans, they need to uncover new ground. They need to do something different that the Main Event Maffia, the Hogan/Bishoff regime vs. Sting thing, and all the other groups did. Hopefully Fortune won't be about taking over TNA. It won't be a political manuever... I'm hoping that it's just about being the best and proving it to the world, or something like that. But still...TNA isn't at the point where a faction is going to be new and exciting. But that's what Flair is good at isn't it? And that's what they'll use him for...
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
Evolution, to some degree, was a group that lived up to its name. Ric Flair was a great mouthpiece and was a huge star back in his day and still is, Triple H is among the biggest stars of the modern era and Orton & Batista were billed as the future I suppose. One reason why it worked out well is because everyone involved played the roles they were given well.
Now, while I know there haven't been any official members of Fortune named yet, it's all but obvious that AJ Styles & Kazarian are going to be the first two. C'mon, let's not even bother to pretend otherwise. However, from the beginning, TNA has taken a different direction than the WWE did with Evolution and I'm not so sure that it's a good direction. In Evolution, Ric Flair treated the other members with respect and as if they were equals. Thus far, Flair has treated all the leading candidates of Fortune as if they're nothing more than a bunch of green, punk kids even though most of the leading candidates are among the most talented bunch in TNA. In Evolution, the spotlight was shared and spread out. In Fortune, thus far, Ric Flair has been booked as the center of attention and has overshadowed the others.
Personally, I think that TNA needs to go in a different direction with Ric Flair to some degree. Ric Flair can be a fantastic mouthpiece and that's the role he's suited best for. Let him run his mouth for Fortune, let him help to hype the crap out of them and do all the things a great mouthpiece is supposed to do. But, don't make him the center of attention, don't run the members of the group down as he's been doing for a while and stay out if the ring himself. At least, that's what I think anyhow.
Now, while I know there haven't been any official members of Fortune named yet, it's all but obvious that AJ Styles & Kazarian are going to be the first two. C'mon, let's not even bother to pretend otherwise. However, from the beginning, TNA has taken a different direction than the WWE did with Evolution and I'm not so sure that it's a good direction. In Evolution, Ric Flair treated the other members with respect and as if they were equals. Thus far, Flair has treated all the leading candidates of Fortune as if they're nothing more than a bunch of green, punk kids even though most of the leading candidates are among the most talented bunch in TNA. In Evolution, the spotlight was shared and spread out. In Fortune, thus far, Ric Flair has been booked as the center of attention and has overshadowed the others.
Personally, I think that TNA needs to go in a different direction with Ric Flair to some degree. Ric Flair can be a fantastic mouthpiece and that's the role he's suited best for. Let him run his mouth for Fortune, let him help to hype the crap out of them and do all the things a great mouthpiece is supposed to do. But, don't make him the center of attention, don't run the members of the group down as he's been doing for a while and stay out if the ring himself. At least, that's what I think anyhow.
Fourtune can't do it for many reasons:
They don't have a Triple H. Like Triple H or not, at the time of Evolution he was unmistakably the top heel and a true STAR for WWE. He was CREDIBLE. Fourtune has Ric Flair holding the spotlight and basically taking center stage consistently over any other younger star connected to the stable, instead of having Ric Flair in the background adding credibility and teaching these stars, but not stealing the spotlight for himself as was his role in Evolution.
Most importantly though it all has to do with the booking of the angle. Evolution was booked, each and every one of them, to look strong and credible. They held championships, they dominated, and they were booked to look like the best wrestlers present and future for the company. Fourtune hasn't been booked even remotely close to this. From the start they lacked credibility and value because Ric Flair belittled them and made them out to be nothing, so the angle was dead right off the bat. But since then they haven't been made out to be the top stars in the company, or the best talents in the coming future of TNA.. they've been losing, there's been in fighting, their directions been everywhere, and TNA has dropped the bar incredibly in my opinion. You can't compare Evolution and Fourtune, especially right now, because one was done well and the other has been done poorly so far.
They don't have a Triple H. Like Triple H or not, at the time of Evolution he was unmistakably the top heel and a true STAR for WWE. He was CREDIBLE. Fourtune has Ric Flair holding the spotlight and basically taking center stage consistently over any other younger star connected to the stable, instead of having Ric Flair in the background adding credibility and teaching these stars, but not stealing the spotlight for himself as was his role in Evolution.
Most importantly though it all has to do with the booking of the angle. Evolution was booked, each and every one of them, to look strong and credible. They held championships, they dominated, and they were booked to look like the best wrestlers present and future for the company. Fourtune hasn't been booked even remotely close to this. From the start they lacked credibility and value because Ric Flair belittled them and made them out to be nothing, so the angle was dead right off the bat. But since then they haven't been made out to be the top stars in the company, or the best talents in the coming future of TNA.. they've been losing, there's been in fighting, their directions been everywhere, and TNA has dropped the bar incredibly in my opinion. You can't compare Evolution and Fourtune, especially right now, because one was done well and the other has been done poorly so far.
I disagree with you here because AJ, in TNA terms, is definitely credible. The problem here is not that they don't have a guy to lead them, but rather that they cut AJ's push short and castrated him in the process with the whole "Flair likes Kazarian more" story. If they'd let AJ continue his title reign and built a real blow-off match between he and RVD, then Fortune could have had a very believable top heel as its focal point.
I dont see it going over too good right now... TNA isnt in the best shape, and they really need to rethink the whole program right now, I can see the ECW angle helping them out and that should help with the ratings, but I would focus on giving good solid matches right now, and just trying to get TNA going again...
