If CM Punk Did a Similar Shoot in TNA...

[GI Cake]

Since lurking through a thread that discussed TNA making money with footage of CM Punk on TNAOndemand.com. A strange thought popped to my head, what if CM Punk stayed with TNA? And what if he was content working with them up until now where he blasted and shook up the wrestling world to it's core.

But would it have had the same power and effect if it were on a Impact taping? Would everyone from Fox to ESPN be talking about Punk mouthing off about his boss on T.V? Would it even been wiped under the rug due to the low 1.25 average rating Impact earns weekly.

So my question too you are.

[*]If CM Punk had a TNA styled promo shoot, would it have the same effect as it does now?

 

[californiachef84]

I don't think that anything good TNA ever does will be recognized by most WWE fans. They have their brand loyalty and nothing short of John Cena, Randy Orton, Triple H, The Rock, & Stone Cold signing with TNA will ever change that. It used to be that all of us had our favorite pro wrestlers that we liked. We liked them so much that we would make sure to tune in to see them regardless of what show they were on or what company they worked for. When WCW died, all of that began to change. Sadly we have reached the point of "brand loyalty", instead of watching our favorite wrestlers. Once the likes of Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy, RVD, Hogan, etc... leave the WWE, then these WWE loyalists say "I never liked them anyway", or "They were never that good to begin with, WWE didn't need them".

With that said, to answer your question... NO!!! CM Punk in TNA running the same angle today would mean absolutely NOTHING! WWE fans would be quick to point out that "Russo is just copying the same angle that Punk did when he was in ROH in 2005". Or even better yet, "Punk is a nobody, and who cares about him?"

That is just the prowrestling enviroment that we live in. Sad, but true...

 

[Gore Illa]

No because

1. "Shocking" things happen in TNA all the time. They overuse shock value, unlike WWE, where they rarely use Crash TV booking anymore.

2. The crowd wouldn't react to it, it would be people yelling shit and it would sound like he made the speech at a high school Graduation.

However, if I was TNA, I would have AJ Styles win the BFG Series and face Anderson at the event. The final show before TNA, have TNA do a scripted "shoot" on the Hardy/Victory Road incident, Hogan and Bischoff, Russo's rehashing of WCW ideas, and TNA's constant hiring of WWE guys. Have him do the "Mr. TNA" gimmick. Of course it would be scripted but don't let that leak to the dirt sheets. Do what WWE did and blur the lines of reality and kayfabe. It would create hype and be a nice moment to look back on.

 

[navyveteran]

It wouldn't work because TNA has a very limited audience and very little star power. All of their bigger stars are former WWE stars. WWE pulled it off because they are the bigger brand and has much larger national appeal.

TNA has a lot of growing to do to ever have a storyline like this have any sort of real "Impact".

 

[mr_dna]

No it wouldnt have no where near the same effect. The things he said in the shoot was things people have heard about WWE,VKM and the family for years thats why old fans are comeing out the wood work. Plus WWE has 10x the media covrage TNA has.

In all truth if punk was still in TNA he would be a nobody really. The only guys who really get Media covrage outside TNA programeing is Ex WCW/WWE guys that the media already knows.

When was the last time AJ Styles was in the media or Christopher Daniels.

 

[Wainy]

I wouldn't have the same mass media effect, as there is no mass media influence posed by TNA. However...

Wouldn't it be good to have someone like, A.J, Samoa Joe, Bobby Roode, Eric Young, Kazarian or Chris Daniels to come out & just say. "TNA is fucking shit right now. Five years ago, it was one of the hottest, most exciting wrestling products in the world, with T.V taping regularly putting on 4 & 5 star matches on a weekly basis, now, it's a chance for Hogan & Bischoff to use a microphone, & to take people who seemed to have unlimited potential (Mr Anderson, AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Christopher Daniels, Frankie Kazarian, Eric Young, Low Ki, Matt Bently, Lance Hoyt, Gail Kim, Awesome Kong, Amazing Red) & either lose them, ruin them or just plain waste them"

Then, to make it super controversial, just add:
"Your ex wifes a psycho, your fuckin' a girl your daughters age, your sons a murderer, your daughter appears to have gone 25 years with Downs Syndrome completely un-diagnosed, your friends are pretty much gaurenteed a job no matter how much of a fuck up they are, & Vince Russo hates wrestling & doesn't know how to write for it".

It may not create much of a mass media buzz, but in the world of pro wrestling, it would be huge.

My money's on Eric Young if it ever does happen!!!

 

[Azane]

It wouldn't have anywhere near the power, because it's TNA

Making fun of Dixie Carter, Eric Bischoff or Hulk Hogan is pretty much the norm on their shows.

They overuse the anti-boss for heat or face value.

 

[TellMeWhy]

It wouldn't work because TNA constantly workshoots. AJ Styles did something similar with Bischoff in February about him and Hogan coming into TNA and ruining it. It worked in WWE because WWE barely does it. Besides, environment plays a factor. TNA is just not as big as WWE so the media won't pick up on things that TNA does that if WWE did, could be potential coverage

 

[LegendKiller716]

A big reason it wouldn't work is because everybody behind the scenes has been on air at some point, so the words wouldn't mean as much.

However the biggest reason is that it's TAPED! CM Punks promo was so awesome because nobody saw it coming. It wouldn't have the same effect if you read it in spoilers first.

One final thought. It wouldn't have a big effect because TNA mentions TNA, ROH, WWE, NJPW, etc. on damn near every episode of Impact.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Time to break the party.

What do you mean "constantly" does worked shoots? The last two were AJ's and Anderson's and that was MONTHS ago. We've had a total of three worked shoots in the last two years. Two from Anderson, one from AJ Styles. If I'm missing some please correct me.

No, TNA doesn't overuse worked shoots. As you can see, they're being done whenever they're needed, not all the time.

That being said, would Punk doing a shoot like the one he did a few weeks back have the same effect on the business? Absolutely not. Why? Well, it's TNA. As soon as Punk is done shooting the IWC won't go head over heels to praise it, despite Punk being one of their darlings. Things like this will be said and done ...

1. TNA does shoots all the times. This is just another one of those. No big deal.
2. A lot of the IWC will go out of their freaking way to nit-pick and destroy the segment to the point of no return so they can convince THEMSELVES it sucked, so they don't have to say they liked something about TNA, even though they did but they don't want stuff like that in TNA, they want them in the WWE so that's where the "everything TNA sucks and everything WWE rules" comes from. That's why people like that are a lost cause.

Look at them now. They're creaming over a worked shoot - been there done that. Creaming over "The Reality Era" which set on TNA 'bout a year and a half ago. They'll skeet all over a cruiserweight division, or a decent Divas Division. But only when the WWE does it. When AJ Styles cut that great shoot promo you could hear a pin drop. This was the promo of AJ's life, yet nobody said shit. When TNA started adding much more realism to their product with the weird backstage promos, ReAction, blurring the lines between what's real and not the IWC took a big dump on it and labeled it stupid for the hell of it. The X-Division were a bunch of spot monkeys. Give me a break.

Not to mention that TNA simply doesn't have the popularity WWE has. This will have ZERO impact on anything. Heck, the only thing Punk's shoot in WWE had impact on is the IWC, TMZ which is not too hard to do and something on ESPN. The ratings are still the same, nothing's going up, the crowd is not reacting to Punk as they did in Chicago which tells you just how much this thing really works. Punk gets the occasional "CM Punk" chant, but is that really a measure of his success?

If this shoot has such little effect on WWE and shows no signs of working (on a grand scale, not Chicago) aside from giving the IWC a stiffy, imagine what miniscule impact it will have in TNA.

And don't tell me the boss-hate is overused. We're talking a shoot here. There's plenty of stuff to open the IWC's ears. PPV buys, ratings not going up, the move to Mondays sucking, bringing in old guys, taking away TNA's identity, Dixie being a mark, say something about Russo, crap on Hogan and Bischoff the HARD way.

But it wouldn't work as good. TNA fans would like it, the world wouldn't despite the fact that it's the voice if the IWC, they'll know it's a work, the IWC will demolish it and turn it into a bad thing, the scum sheets will crap on it as much as possible because TNA hate is popular, the fan boys LOVE reading it and feeling better about their brand, that generates hits and it'll all be forgotten in two weeks.

Total Nonstop Action - damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[He's Phenomenal]

I'm not even sure what was said by Punk or what effect (if any) it's had. But I pretty much agree with Zion in that people would just criticise the angle if it was taking place in TNA. TNA just can't do right in a lot of peoples eyes but the weird thing is they continue to watch it. Stupid I know but its true.

 

[Rampage Bentley]

Time to break the party.

What do you mean "constantly" does worked shoots? The last two were AJ's and Anderson's and that was MONTHS ago. We've had a total of three worked shoots in the last two years. Two from Anderson, one from AJ Styles. If I'm missing some please correct me.

No, TNA doesn't overuse worked shoots. As you can see, they're being done whenever they're needed, not all the time.

Look at them now. They're creaming over a worked shoot - been there done that. Creaming over "The Reality Era" which set on TNA 'bout a year and a half ago. They'll skeet all over a cruiserweight division, or a decent Divas Division. But only when the WWE does it. When AJ Styles cut that great shoot promo you could hear a pin drop. This was the promo of AJ's life, yet nobody said shit. When TNA started adding much more realism to their product with the weird backstage promos, ReAction, blurring the lines between what's real and not the IWC took a big dump on it and labeled it stupid for the hell of it. The X-Division were a bunch of spot monkeys. Give me a break.

You're right. The thing is, when WWE does something like this, it usually signals that they're shaking things up and changing the way they do things. When TNA does something like this it usually means they gave up on their last idea and this is what we're going to get for the next six months.

I agree with you, AJ gave the promo of his life, and it didn't really resound with anyone, because it fit, and was clearly 100% storyline. And I agree with you that TNA doesn't overdo worked shoots, but what they do overdo is things contained in them. How often do you hear TNA talk about WWE? Usually a couple times a night. Mentioning the competition and the competitors from said competition is a nightly occurence. Punk's promo was a big deal because WWE has a list of do's and dont's that TNA doesn't have, and when those do's and dont's get broken, the craps gonna hit the fan.

Not to mention that TNA simply doesn't have the popularity WWE has. This will have ZERO impact on anything. Heck, the only thing Punk's shoot in WWE had impact on is the IWC, TMZ which is not too hard to do and something on ESPN. The ratings are still the same, nothing's going up, the crowd is not reacting to Punk as they did in Chicago which tells you just how much this thing really works. Punk gets the occasional "CM Punk" chant, but is that really a measure of his success?

If this shoot has such little effect on WWE and shows no signs of working (on a grand scale, not Chicago) aside from giving the IWC a stiffy, imagine what miniscule impact it will have in TNA.

What the hell do you expect from him? Is the only way to be successful to have huge rating spikes within a matter of weeks? He's pulling in the same numbers Cena did, is the measure of success really to instantly outdraw Cena? Did you hear the pop Punk got on RAW this week? (if you watched it) it was three times the pop Cena got, and they weren't in Chicago. His new shirt sold out twice and he's been maintaining the ratings during the biggest lull of the year.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

You're right. The thing is, when WWE does something like this, it usually signals that they're shaking things up and changing the way they do things. When TNA does something like this it usually means they gave up on their last idea and this is what we're going to get for the next six months.

With all due respect, I can see you're not a typical WWE/ROH/Everything fan boy, but what exactly happened after The Nexus was introduced? You say usually signals they are shaking things up. Fine, I hope it does. But what was shaken up after The Nexus came about? Nothing, to be honest.

One could say that it signaled the coming of the Youth Movement, but that's just another idea that flopped tremendously and as soon as WWE was done strapping belts on younger talent they went runnning back to John Cena, Randy Orton, Christian as of late and as of a few weeks ago CM Punk who has already been Champion two times before.

True, it shake things up but for a short period of time. What you described in your TNA reference is called long-term booking. You know, that thing fans accuse TNA of not having? Storylines span over months and the only people that have a problem with it are (from my observation) the people who never really get into anything TNA related in the first place.

I don't see the ratings going down, do you? But I don't see them going up either. There's no need for praise, no need for scorning. I enjoy it. 1.7 million people do so as well. No harm thus far.

I agree with you, AJ gave the promo of his life, and it didn't really resound with anyone, because it fit, and was clearly 100% storyline. And I agree with you that TNA doesn't overdo worked shoots, but what they do overdo is things contained in them. How often do you hear TNA talk about WWE? Usually a couple times a night. Mentioning the competition and the competitors from said competition is a nightly occurence. Punk's promo was a big deal because WWE has a list of do's and dont's that TNA doesn't have, and when those do's and dont's get broken, the craps gonna hit the fan.

Once again, please watch TNA more and don't trust other posters' biased opinions. I can tell you're a smart guy, you're better than that bro.

But to correct you, TNA doesn't mention the WWE two times every show. Stop overexaggerating. Have they taken obvious shots at them? Absolutely. But to say that it happens all the time is a little silly. It doesn't.

And as far as the do's and don'ts thing goes - well one of the reasons why I'm having a hard time getting back into the WWE product, be it SmackDown or RAW is the existence of too many don'ts. It's funny that the minute WWE removed pretty much all of their don'ts the Punk thing happened and all of us loved it. I'm just saying, maybe WWE is being too concervative and won't think out of the box and allow themselves and their talent to think freely and be creative with it. Much harder to be creative when you have a stack of rules you need to religiously follow.

What the hell do you expect from him? Is the only way to be successful to have huge rating spikes within a matter of weeks? He's pulling in the same numbers Cena did, is the measure of success really to instantly outdraw Cena? Did you hear the pop Punk got on RAW this week? (if you watched it) it was three times the pop Cena got, and they weren't in Chicago. His new shirt sold out twice and he's been maintaining the ratings during the biggest lull of the year.

I don't know what ratings he's been maintaining when they're down.

June 6 - 3.2
June 13 - 3.3 for normal 2hrs
June 20 - 3.3 for normal 2hrs
June 27 - 3.1 (night that Punk angle started)
July 4 - 2.4 (feel free to ignore this one)
July 11 - 2.9
July 18 - 3.2
July 25 - 3.2

I'm just saying, it doesn't seem to be as successful with the mainstream audience as some think. Come on, man, it's been a month. This when the angle was BRAND new and all the buzz was happening and the ratings froze in time. It'll eventually start to die down, especially with mainstream media where news and things flash for seconds and disappear. TMZ is not gonna cover this all the time. Now it's just a storyline. I blame a lot of it on WWE because they brought Punk back too quickly. They could've played around with it and kept it alive. Send his ass to some talk shows, radio shows, podcasts, get him on Stern if you're feeling brave. But no, they brought him back in two weeks. Now I know they need something big for Summerslam but Mysterio and Cena could've worked. Have Cena win at SS and THEN bring Punkster back. They had the right idea for a moment.

If the angle couldn't draw an audience when it happened, when it was fresh, exciting, new and hot as all hell what makes you think it'll draw an audience now? It won't. They have to come up with something new and while one can dream about WWE coming up with something just as sweet I highly doubt they could. The Champ vs Champ thing won't generate as much interest, and even if it does as we saw no one really gave a damn aside from the IWC and the main reason for that is because this angle WAS for the IWC. They catered to us and it didn't work. TNA does it too and it doesn't work. But hey, they bring back Rocky and WHAMO, ratings are up at the drop of a hat. Why? Because they catered to the masses, and the masses love The Rock. The IWC loves Samoa Joe.

I took the ratings breakdown from another poster on another forum and as he said - if this was over the ratings would be going up not sideways. You can attribute it to competition with other programs such as the HR Derby on July 18th, but here's a fun fact ...

2010 - Raw before the derby - 3.35. Raw against the derby - 3.33
2009 - Raw before - 3.6. Raw against - 3.5.

 

[Derf]

It wouldn't have had the same impact, and you'd have to be an idiot to think it would. WWE is a globaly known company, TNA is not. WWE is LIVE, TNA is not. The live aspect of the shoot is what made it such a huge deal. Had it happened in TNA, and if they really wanted to play it off as a shoot, they'd have not shown it on the taped show a few days later, and the whole effect would have been pointless.

Did I mention no one's ever heard of TNA? Hell, if Punk did stay there and cut said promo, it wouldn't have made a difference because no ones heard of Punk in said situation. The WWE made themselves huge, they made Punk huge, and used their hugeness to make this segment work, with everything to the refeences to other companys, to insulting the boss, right till his mic was cut and the show ended early. None of that can be done on a taped show. Thats not a shot at TNA, as the exact same angle wouldn't have worked even on Smackdown.

 

[mlp420]

It wouldn't have the same effect because a lot of TNA's storylines are aimed at IWC complaints anyway.

The whole "Ex-WWE guys hogging the main event over TNA originals" was addressed with the Main Event Mafia vs TNA Originals.

Samoa Joe refusing to sign a contract extension with TNA if he didn't win the TNA title was around the time people were bitching about TNA taking to long to put the belt on him.


Fortune vs. Immortal is based on the idea that "TNA was going great until Hogan and Bischoff started changing things!" (which is total BS.)

Destination X is self explanatory.

I think Samoa Joe's current storyline is heading down this road too.

 

[WrestlingIsReal]

if punk did the shoot style promo in tna?
10 people would have seen it and no one would have remembered it.

 

[ShawnBronald]

Here's the thing: TNA does the whole worked shoot thing all the time. It doesn't matter who does it, it would never have the impact (seriously, no pun intended) as it would in WWE. Of course, WWE has done worked shoots too, but they're usually uneventful. The reason Punk's was such a big deal is a.) his contract really was up, b.) WWE is PG, so a lot of what Punk said could be considered going overboard and most importantly, c.) everyone knows how particular Vince is regarding what is said and it really felt like Punk crossed the line. Ultimately, I think the fact they cut his mic when they did is what got everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) talking.

So no, I don't care who said it or what they said, a worked shoot or even real shoot never would have had the same notoriety as Punk's did in WWE. Period.

 

[Awesome]

It would be impossible to do that promo on TNA - the reason it was so effective was that it centred around WWE and the Mcmahon family. If it were in TNA who would he be complaining about Spike? Dixie? Fact is they are not the Mcmahons or the WWE, the mainstream just wouldn't give a shit if he were shooting on such non-entities.

Another couple of reasons no-one would care

a) it's taped. The fact Punk did it live made all the difference. People were able to suspend disbelief because it was able to at least create the illusion that this was a legit shoot. If it happened on a taped show then the audience would know for a fact it wasn't legit, because if it's on a taped show then the powers that be obviously approve or else they would have cut it from the show.

b) There is absolutely no atmosphere at a TNA show. If the live crowd aren't buying into it, no-one else will.

 

[donnelllangs]

Some people think that it wouldn't work in tna. They are right. Truth be told it didn't work in the wwe either. Sure it got great media exposure, but in the end raw did a 2.4 one week, a 2.9 the next week and back to it's usual 3.2 it get's each week. So no new fans, more money or higher ratings come from this. Good storyline at best. What wwe did with the promos from cm punk has to come from a lot of their wrestlers and the match can't be prdictable. Then maybe more money, new fans and higher ratings will come. Tna has to work harder all around to get close to the wwe.

 

[VinnieSunshine]

At the risk of being repetitive...it wouldn't work.

1) Punk wouldn't have been as big of a star in TNA as he is in WWE.

2) Im sure it would've been hinted at happening at some point.

BUT...the main reason is because...


TNA IS TAPED! If he would've cut that promo, it would've been spread throughtout the net. Most fans would've known about it beforehand and spread the word. It wouldn't have had the same impact as it did with WWE.

TNA doesn't have the mainstream media attention that WWE has and it wouldn't have evolved into the storyline that WWE is running (changing of ownership, duel champions). In all honesty...who in the TNA lockerroom on the active roster is the big draw for them? Thats one of the most compelling things about the story.

Wrestling fans are making the comparison to Punk being this era's Austin, how Punk vs Triple H is the new Austin vs McMahon. If TNA were to do this with Punk, fans would bitch that TNA is copying WWE storylines now! I can see the posts now...

"TNA has run out of ideas, now they are copying storylines from WWE and the attitude era. TNA needs to fire everyone and bring in new writers and bookers. Get rid of Hogan, Bischoff, and Russo! Stop rehashing storylines from 10 years ago!"

WWE rarely uses the shock factor anymore and they save it for summer mostly. Thats partly why this is working. This will die down around Survivor Series...by WM everyone will write it off and forget about it.

 

[VinnieSunshine]

Some people think that it wouldn't work in tna. They are right. Truth be told it didn't work in the wwe either. Sure it got great media exposure, but in the end raw did a 2.4 one week, a 2.9 the next week and back to it's usual 3.2 it get's each week. So no new fans, more money or higher ratings come from this. Good storyline at best. What wwe did with the promos from cm punk has to come from a lot of their wrestlers and the match can't be prdictable. Then maybe more money, new fans and higher ratings will come. Tna has to work harder all around to get close to the wwe.

The 2.4 was July 4th so I can understand that. The 2.9 was the following week coming off of a holiday. That episode didn't really offer much more to the storyline and also, if people knew Punk wasn't on the July 4th show, its possible they didn't tune in. Ratings also only account for watching it LIVE, DVR IS NOT counted into those figures.

But like Punk said in an interview...its not about the ratings anymore. People have to look past that. Its a new era, the reality era. Media and the fans got talking about this...doesn't mean all of THEM tuned in to watch every week.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

The 2.4 was July 4th so I can understand that. The 2.9 was the following week coming off of a holiday. That episode didn't really offer much more to the storyline and also, if people knew Punk wasn't on the July 4th show, its possible they didn't tune in. Ratings also only account for watching it LIVE, DVR IS NOT counted into those figures.

But like Punk said in an interview...its not about the ratings anymore. People have to look past that. Its a new era, the reality era. Media and the fans got talking about this...doesn't mean all of THEM tuned in to watch every week.

Stop throwing that "Reality Era" term around as if it's happening. In case you haven't noticed WWE's overall product is still the same as before, so as of this writing there is no such thing as a Reality Era. If there is, then The Miz is indeed the most "Must See" superstar on WWE's roster.

Now, as far as this "ratings don't matter" bullshit. Really? Are you sure? Something tells me you wouldn't be preaching that if RAW was pulling 4.0's week in and week out.

The day a company says "fuck it" and no longer cares about the ratings is the day it'll be bought by Sinclair Broadcasting.

 

[nwasyko]

in an era where DVR count for probably 50% of a shows viewership, maybe im exagerating, but thats how most people watch things these days...

 

[VinnieSunshine]

Stop throwing that "Reality Era" term around as if it's happening. In case you haven't noticed WWE's overall product is still the same as before, so as of this writing there is no such thing as a Reality Era. If there is, then The Miz is indeed the most "Must See" superstar on WWE's roster.

Now, as far as this "ratings don't matter" bullshit. Really? Are you sure? Something tells me you wouldn't be preaching that if RAW was pulling 4.0's week in and week out.

The day a company says "fuck it" and no longer cares about the ratings is the day it'll be bought by Sinclair Broadcasting.

I was paraphrasing Punk's interview.

I dont care if its the reality era, attitude era, PG era, or babies only era! All I know is that I am entertained.

To be completely honest with you...I dont even care about ratings. I never cared if the ratings were 4.0 back in the day or if they remain 3.2 forever. Ratings dont mean a thing to me.

 

[Awesome]

Now, as far as this "ratings don't matter" bullshit. Really? Are you sure? Something tells me you wouldn't be preaching that if RAW was pulling 4.0's week in and week out.

The day a company says "fuck it" and no longer cares about the ratings is the day it'll be bought by Sinclair Broadcasting.

I won't say "ratings don't matter", but we have to acknowledge they are not the most important thing. First off, not everyone watches live on USA, some DVR it, others watch online streams. I also hate to break to y'all, the WWE is watched in more countries than the USA. Maybe ratings are going up in other markets, it's never reported so it is somewhat of an unknown variable. So ratings aren't too dependable in gauging the success of a program.

While ratings matter, I'm sure other things matter more. For instance, how much merchandise is Punk shifting? Are buys of mitb and Summerslam increasing? These are things which will ultimately be a bigger gauge of success - WWE are a capitalist MNC, at the end of the day it's all about we profit.

We should also remember that ratings didn't spike after the Austin 3:16 promo. It took a long gradual shift in the overall product to bring those ratings. I think Punk should be given a similar opportunity rather than making any knee jerk reactions based on short term ratings.