• Xenforo Cloud has scheduled an upgrade to XenForo version 2.2.16. This will take place on or shortly after the following date and time: Jul 05, 2024 at 05:00 PM (PT) There shouldn't be any downtime, as it's just a maintenance release. More info here

IC25's New Article: "If You Can't Be Good, At Least Be "GOOD..."

Where was this column the past couple times Bischoff was smoking a cigar recently? What is with all this moral righteousness lately that seems to only be about TNA? When has moral ever sold in wrestling since Hogan? Cena? Don't make me laugh, he rose to popularity based on the same attitude era style as everyone else.

NEWSFLASH! Heels do things that are not good. Read all about it in Thefuckingobviousshit Times.
 
Sorry, the cigarette was a "cheap heat" sort of manuever. This guy is such a rebel, outcast and he's proving it by smoking a CIGARETTE <gasp> before a match.

Remember you have OLD PEOPLE writing the story lines and booking these matches....very few young members on the TNA creative crew.

In the movies, when the bad guy is sure of victory, he's smoking, drinking or doing some other illicit (maybe not illegal) thing.

I smoke. Wish I didn't, working on quitting, etc. However, my kids see me smoke everyday and they know they don't need to pick up this disgusting habit. My wife and I educate them on it. It's an addiction that's hard to overcome, but I'm working towards that goal. As I step off of my soap box, keep in mind, it's ENTERTAINMENT.....plain and simple and they went with cheap heat this time.
 
When I was 13, I saw The Sandman for the first time in ECW. It was the Barely Legal pay-per-view, and during his entrance when he was drinking beer and smoking a cigarette, all I could think of was that this is the coolest motherfucker I've ever laid my eyes on.

Today, I'm 25, and call me a pussy, but I have still yet to even take a puff from a cigarette, or a sip of alcohol.

I know I don't speak for everyone, nor am I trying to pass myself as proof that pro wrestlers don't have an influence on kids, but at the end of the day... people make their own choices. Kids included. They are solely responsible for whatever choices they make in life, as long as they're mentally stable, or weren't literally forced into doing something they didn't want to do.

Now, to Jeff Hardy... I love his new character, the "Anti-Christ of professional wrestling." I've been very vocal about how highly I think of it and Hardy's performance as that character, even though I feel TNA has heavily dropped the ball with it.

Anyways, I do feel the smoking thing played to Hardy's current character, and to the match last night. TNA obviously wanted to give the fans some sort of visual that Hardy was thinking this match was about to be a cakewalk, and the best thing they could come up with was him smoking a cigarette on his way to the ring. It was just like Damon Wayans' character in the comedy/Boxing film, The Great White Hype. Damon Wayans was so sure he was going to beat his opponent, that during training he smoked constantly and ate at a ridiculous rate.

To show a fictional athlete smoking, it's just a simple psychology measure to make that person look overconfident, and that's the only thing that was behind Jeff Hardy smoking the cig on his way to the ring last night, which in my opinion is no big deal at all.
 
How much does WWE pay you guys? TNA is featured in your news sections 40% of the time and all you ever do is bash them like WWE cut you a check. Can I get a WWE check, too? I'll tell everybody they're neato!

Aww poor TNA Fanboy,TNA is only talked about 40% of the time :lmao:

You know if TNA wants to let Jeff Hardy smoke before a Match thats their deal. The reason guys like Stone Cold,Sandman,and Big Show/Giant drank Beer and Smoked was because the Business was edgy back in the late 90's because it had to be.

Today its a different business and you don't need stuff like that going on to get over. I dunno im not against Smoking if you want to do it go ahead but at the same time I would never do it.
 
Are you serious OP?

Get the stick out of your ass, the guy is a freaking heel, he's a dirtbag, psychopathic, egomaniac. Smoking a cigarette is the least of his character flaws.

Gotta love the over thinking internet fans grasping at straws, to something he didn't see, so he can put his username in a title.
 
GUYS! Would you please stop all the bickering? Let's all sing together. Together with Jeffro himself!

[YOUTUBE]ep7VlfHW2hM[/YOUTUBE]

See, that shit would've been horrible if he was a face. But he's not. He's a heel. It's about damn time we got a TRUE heel we can all detest for who he is and what he does, not have a FAKE heel, dressed in a suit, speaking in a robotic manner and repeating the same shit over and over again.
 
GUYS! Would you please stop all the bickering? Let's all sing together. Together with Jeffro himself!

[YOUTUBE]ep7VlfHW2hM[/YOUTUBE]

See, that shit would've been horrible if he was a face. But he's not. He's a heel. It's about damn time we got a TRUE heel we can all detest for who he is and what he does, not have a FAKE heel, dressed in a suit, speaking in a robotic manner and repeating the same shit over and over again.

I ain't mad. I honestly think he's just trolling and doesn't really believe this crap. Jeff Hardy turning heel was the best move he ever made. Plus he can snort in peace without a pesky conscience! Plus, if you love WWE so much, he had all those roids during the time he was working there. What kinda people keep big weight except dealers. Do the math.
 
Are you serious OP?

Get the stick out of your ass, the guy is a freaking heel, he's a dirtbag, psychopathic, egomaniac. Smoking a cigarette is the least of his character flaws.

Gotta love the over thinking internet fans grasping at straws, to something he didn't see, so he can put his username in a title.

People like you aren't why I write those OpEds. I write those to drive discussion into the forums, no matter if it's in agreement or disagreement with me. Maybe if you could form an argument without 50% of it stooping to a level of petty insults you'd be considered intelligent enough to do the same thing. But probably not.

Read JMT's and SSC's responses. Well structures, intelligent posts. They make GREAT points.

My point is simply that TNA, as an organization that promotes itself as 'professional wrestling' and 'an athletic contest' depicted its champion with either a cigarette or a joint haning from his mouth just days after pleading guilty to basically being a one-man drug cartel. Freedom aside, I think there's an issue here, and I lay that out pretty simply.

As for all of the TNA whiners in here who think TNA isn't getting a fair shake, I have news for you - that's BUSINESS. They aren't putting out a product worthy of praise right now. 2-3 years ago, I liked TNA far better. They've regressed so quickly it's insane. You want praise for the product? Hope they get better. Hope they go back to how they did things.

And above all, avoid cheap heat by trying to make a guy a bigger heel by giving him tobacco. WWE got CM Punk over HUGE as a heel for doing NONE of that stuff. That's creativity.
 
So a heel CM Punk openly mocking the face children's hero Jeff Hardy's drug problems is creative and "good" but heel Hardy smoking a cigarette is so bad? Double standard much? Hardy has not pleaded guilty to anything yet. The idea that TNA is significantly worse off than it was 3 years ago is as ridiculous as pretty much everything else you have said in this thread.
 
I just don't get why this has all of a sudden became an issue when worse shit has been happening since that first Frenchmen started to suplexing himself onto a bed of stone *****s. The bitter truth is smoking is far less of a negative influence then a wrestler doing a backstage attack on a cookie cutter face. The truth is even before 10 year olds knew this shit was as real as The Bold and The Beautiful they were watching the Four Horseman break Dusty Rhodes' ankle.

A scene with Hardy smoking is minuscule in it's controversialness when comparing it to an accepted wrestling tactic such as crunching a guy's head with a steel chair.

You're a good writer and you kept my interest in reading even though the subject matter and perspective presented almost fit the criteria for overly politically correct bullshit. Nonetheless I look forward to your next editorial and hope it's as debatable and different as this one.
 
So a heel CM Punk openly mocking the face children's hero Jeff Hardy's drug problems is creative and "good" but heel Hardy smoking a cigarette is so bad? Double standard much? Hardy has not pleaded guilty to anything yet. The idea that TNA is significantly worse off than it was 3 years ago is as ridiculous as pretty much everything else you have said in this thread.

Yeah TNA was not that much better in 08 than it is now. But I don't think this was done to somehow propel the WWE into ethical superiority TNA, but I do agree he has a shitty arguement.
 
He hasn't done anything different than what Hollywood's been doing for ages. Does it glamorize smoking? Hell yeah, but the choice is still the young ones'. To put between to periods, smoking is around because of peer pressure, social adjustment and the celluloidal grandeur that exhibits it.

...And Nicotine, yeah that too.
 
People like you aren't why I write those OpEds. I write those to drive discussion into the forums, no matter if it's in agreement or disagreement with me. Maybe if you could form an argument without 50% of it stooping to a level of petty insults you'd be considered intelligent enough to do the same thing. But probably not.

Read JMT's and SSC's responses. Well structures, intelligent posts. They make GREAT points.

My point is simply that TNA, as an organization that promotes itself as 'professional wrestling' and 'an athletic contest' depicted its champion with either a cigarette or a joint haning from his mouth just days after pleading guilty to basically being a one-man drug cartel. Freedom aside, I think there's an issue here, and I lay that out pretty simply.

As for all of the TNA whiners in here who think TNA isn't getting a fair shake, I have news for you - that's BUSINESS. They aren't putting out a product worthy of praise right now. 2-3 years ago, I liked TNA far better. They've regressed so quickly it's insane. You want praise for the product? Hope they get better. Hope they go back to how they did things.

And above all, avoid cheap heat by trying to make a guy a bigger heel by giving him tobacco. WWE got CM Punk over HUGE as a heel for doing NONE of that stuff. That's creativity.

Again, get the stick out of your ass, all it was to do was to show Hardy didn't think of Anderson as a threat. If you think a cigarette is going to impact his trial or has some kind of bad message, you're really over thinking wrestling. There is only an issue if you are over thinking it, looking for some kind of straws to grasp to bitch at Hardy, as if there isn't enough with him already.

It's not even about heat, it was a simple gesture of arrogance. He wasn't looking for heat.
 
People like you aren't why I write those OpEds. I write those to drive discussion into the forums, no matter if it's in agreement or disagreement with me. Maybe if you could form an argument without 50% of it stooping to a level of petty insults you'd be considered intelligent enough to do the same thing. But probably not.

Read JMT's and SSC's responses. Well structures, intelligent posts. They make GREAT points.

My point is simply that TNA, as an organization that promotes itself as 'professional wrestling' and 'an athletic contest' depicted its champion with either a cigarette or a joint haning from his mouth just days after pleading guilty to basically being a one-man drug cartel. Freedom aside, I think there's an issue here, and I lay that out pretty simply.

As for all of the TNA whiners in here who think TNA isn't getting a fair shake, I have news for you - that's BUSINESS. They aren't putting out a product worthy of praise right now. 2-3 years ago, I liked TNA far better. They've regressed so quickly it's insane. You want praise for the product? Hope they get better. Hope they go back to how they did things.

And above all, avoid cheap heat by trying to make a guy a bigger heel by giving him tobacco. WWE got CM Punk over HUGE as a heel for doing NONE of that stuff. That's creativity.

Instead of doing drugs they just used CM Punk him to shit on everyone who has a drug problem or drinking problem which I guess is OK with WWE fans because Punk is awesome. Jeff Hardy is not so this is why we are here.

Anyways he came down, took a drag of a cigarette, stomped it out, and got in the ring. All I see it as is a way to make it look like Hardy thought he was getting into an easy situation. Like he was laid back and didn't care. People have used alcohol and tobacco before on TV. Sandman and Austin are two that come to mind. I didn't see anyone having a problem with it or pumping the do the right thing fist. Smoking is seen all over TV and Movies and isn't illegal. Hell these companies sponsor sporting events sometimes. Kids are around adults all the time who smoke cigarettes also.

If you want to get technical you should tell your kid not to commit vehicular manslaughter because we have seen both companies do that this past year. Or how about attempted murder because Edge certainly should go to jail along with Abyss for his attack on RVD with Janice.

Now if you or anyone else would like to make the point that it is a scripted show and fake then you can't have it both ways. You can't think one thing is bad, but think somethings are good. I also would like to know if this would be an issue if it wasn't Jeff Hardy? I see people comparing this to his actual real life issues. Well last time I checked cocaine, pills, and pot is not a cigarette and is in fact legal unlike the other things I mentioned.
 
Who cares if he was smoking a cigarette, just because it was on tv wow never seen that before it s probably something he does at home to, Randy Orton smokes cigarettes to nobody on here making a big deal out of that, why? cause it wasn't on tv, no, cause he's a WWE god and most people on here are WWE smarks!!!! Get over it and quite bashing TNA over every litte thing they do if you hate them so much dont watch there product, or let your kids watch, its there health if they want to ruin it so what.
Lulz, you're one of those people that go on about blind WWE smarks, yet don't you think by constantly defending tna that that makes you a blind TNA smark? It's not who did it, or what company they did it on, it's the fact that they did it. If I was at a show like that and I lit up a smoke I would of been kicked out. so why should the wrestlers be able to do it.
Lol dude wasn't it back in the 80s the guy smoked in Roddy Piper's face with a cigar? So what is the difference?

What's the difference? the difference is, that was thirty years ago. Times have changed. more facts have been found about smoking. more laws have been made about smoking. I can see where Irish is coming from, why have Hardy come out with a smoke when there would of been alot of smokers in the audience dying for a smoke that couldn't light one up.
 
Hardy smoking a cigarette on his way to the ring had nothing to do with his character. So far TNA has not used his drug addiction as a part of his on screen character so I think we should leave that speculation aside.

It was just done to show that Hardy was very casual about facing Anderson. He knew Anderson was beaten up and would not stand much of a chance against him. But again he did not need to smoke a cigarette to convey that fact. It could have been easily done without him smoking, perhaps the situation could have been heightened a bit by better commentary, and thus avoiding any controversy that might harm TNA's image in any way.

That being said, I wonder how many fans sitting in the arena actually cared that Hardy smoked a cigar. I don't think that the first reaction of a wrestling fan is "OMFG! How is Hardy allowed to smoke a cigar while I can't?"

His reaction will be something like "Man this sucks. Anderson's just been through a gruelling match and now he had to face Hardy. That's so unfair. Oh here comes Hardy. Look at that smug son of a bitch! Everything's been handed to him on a platter. God I wish I could just smack his face!!!"

As you can see there is no mention of a cigar in the reaction of a true fan. So while I do feel that Hardy smoking the cigar was certainly avoidable, its not something we should really make a big deal of. Most fans have probably forgotten about it and so should we. After all it is not that important to analyze everything.
 
Between this thread and the other thread, there are way too many people espousing similar ideas for me to go around and quote everyone. So, at the risk of and attempting to avoid forming strawmen, I will do a bit of a "Reply All" to the thread, and hopefully capture the gist of many of the ideas espoused here. It's not like it matters, no one reads posts this far into a thread anyhow.

"Jeff Hardy smoking a cigarette got him heat as a heel."

Undoubtedly true. There are two quite active threads about Jeff Hardy smoking; as far as an attention grabbing tactic, it was quite successful. However, some people seem to have the idea getting heat as a heel is the only goal of being a heel; that if doing something gets Jeff Hardy heat, then that something was the right thing to do. I'm not at all interested in the legal/illegal aspect of this- you can't legislate morality, although we've been trying since we started growing our crops in rows. So let's take a hypothetical example. In my state, marijuana is effectively legal. You can be in possession of a fairly ridiculous "personal usage" amount, and the worst thing that can happen to you is a $100 fine. So Jeff Hardy walks down the ramp, puffing away on a joint as he makes his way to the ring. It's legal- does that make it OK? Another hypothetical- Jeff Hardy gets in the ring in Washington, D.C., and wipes his bare ass with an American flag. Perfectly legal- but does that make it OK? They all get heat, but none of that heat is of the self-sustaining variety, nor does it serve to give the face room to contrast. It's just a bad guy doing bad guy things for the sake of being a bad guy.

Although I won't think this will be an issue here as the incident occurred on PPV, but there are also advertisers to think about. Being associated with anyone who is even perceived to support smoking is asking for trouble; if it were a regular occurrence, the advertisers would throw a fit.

"Jeff Hardy smoking a cigarette enhanced his character."

Spare us all the bullshit, please. Jeff Hardy is not about to become the Enigmatic Smoker. It was a form of cheap heat; how does smoking a cigarette leave room for future development around that plot point? That's enhancing a character; adding new, in character details which you can work into and around your ongoing storyline.

"Parents shouldn't be letting their kids watch TNA."
"The parents shouldn't let their kids smoke."

People are approaching the "but what about the children" argument with the answer, "well, why don't their parents simply not let them...." Think back to when you were 13-14. Did your parents have total, absolute control of you, to the point of knowing exactly what you were doing with your friends after school, to the point of being able to tell you what to watch on TV when they weren't home? Either they didn't, or you're lying. As a parent, you try and do the best you can to prepare your child for the universe around them, but you are in competition with several other sources; teachers, friends, and America's babysitter, the television. My parents did a pretty good job; three children, one of them works in advertising and new media, one of them manages the hospitality staff of a hotel in a major U.S. city, and the other is still working their way through school. Despite all of their best efforts, all three of us became smokers. It's not like we didn't know the risks; our parents were at pains to educate us. But at some point, all of us made the decision for ourselves to smoke. Save your self-righteous "I've never met you but your parents must be awful" crap; I'm quite confident of the job they did. Anyone who can claim to control their kids utterly beyond the age of 12 is fooling themselves.

"The WWE did (this) x years ago, why are people upset about this now?

Another lesson from my parents; just because someone else does something, that doesn't make it OK for you to do it too. WCW showed Big Show smoking on the way to the ring; that doesn't mean it's OK for TNA to do it now. It wasn't OK for WCW to do it back then. The WWE pulled a hand out of Mae Young's vag? I've never looked at the WWE as a responsible corporate actor and role model, even though they try to play the part.

"It's TV-14, so kids shouldn't be watching anyways."

People aren't concerned about their 8 year-old son smoking. They are concerned about their 14 year-old son smoking, and at 14, you're still a kid. People imitate television- just listen to people spout off Family Guy jokes on a Monday morning. (Someone is bound to take that point to the edge of ridiculousness by saying something ******ed like "so does that mean my son is going to get into a fight with a giant chicken", and if you want to go that far with it, that's a journey you can go on alone.) No one's going to go out and smoke "because Jeff did it", but they are going to say "Jeff Hardy smoked a cigarette before a match, and he's an athlete- maybe these things aren't so bad." TV-14 is not carte-blanche. That would be TV-MA.

There are lots of excuses for why it's ok for Jeff Hardy to smoke on the way to the ring; but I've yet to hear a compelling reason as to why it was necessary.
 
To be completely honest, I don't see what the big complaint here is. I'm not a smoker and I do think smoking is a mild form of stupidity but Jeff Hardy lighting up a cigarette isn't a big deal.

Do I think that Jeff Hardy has been underwhelming as a heel? Yes I do quite frankly as he hasn't nearly lived up to the amount of hype TNA put into this, though that hype wasn't nearly what the IWC put out.

Just because Jeff Hardy smokes a cig on camera isn't some huge endorsement for kids to go out and do the same thing. There are still kids jumping off of stuff in the home and breaking their arms trying to fly like Superman but people aren't making federal cases out of it. Jeff Hardy lighting up isn't going to destroy or pollute the young minds that tune in to watch TNA.

When I read about all the complaints made by smarky internet fans and smarky columnists as to how wrestling has lost it's edge, I just can't help but shake my head a little. Over the course of the past few months, it's become quite obvious that the smarks don't really want something that's legitimately edgy or controversial. What they want are tired and outdated cliches that are dressed up and hyped as being controversial. About a month ago, Cody Rhodes cuts a promo at a house show in which he states "I hate Mexicans". Now while I don't believe that he actually does, the obvious racial implications of such a statement are plain to see. It's legitimately controversial, it got people talking and most of the talking I saw and read about seemed to be criticism. A few weeks ago on Raw, John Cena & Jerry Lawler did an impromptu "roast" of Vickie Guerrero and made a number of fat jokes that had the IWC all up in arms, saying it's gonna make kids unhappy with their looks or some teenage girl at home was gonna kill herself and all that other shit. Now, Jeff Hardy lights up a cigarette on a ppv and people are up in arms that he's sending a poor message, or that he's poisoning the minds of young people and so on and so forth. It's a little late to be worrying about the sort of message young people are getting from Jeff Hardy, don't you think? When you consider the fact that TNA put the World Championship on a drug addict and someone that the company knew was facing multiple felony drug charges, lighting up a cigarette doesn't even qualify as a blip on the radar for me.

When it comes to controversy, the IWC wants lame & tired content like wrestlers cursing every now and then, women dressing provocatively & behaving like hookers on speed and bleeding during matches. None of these things are the least bit controversial these days and, quite frankly, they haven't been for a long time.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
174,827
Messages
3,300,736
Members
21,726
Latest member
chrisxenforo
Back
Top