Honest Questions About Homosexuality

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What they f*ck happened in the thread section here
Now this is a spin-off thread from one of the election threads (please don't ask me which one) but I expressed sincere queries about homosexuality and SavageTaker has taken out the time to answer some of them.

I thank him for his participation and if anybody else has any questions I would suggest they ask here in the most dignified manner.

But please, allow me to have the first page here.



I'll get right to my first questions:

1) When did you realize you had feelings for the same sex for the first time, and what/if anything triggered it? ( If this is too personal, please refrain ST)


2) How has the community around you reacted to you coming out?
 
1) When did you realize you had feelings for the same sex for the first time, and what/if anything triggered it? ( If this is too personal, please refrain ST)

I first realized I had feeling for guys when I was in 7th grade so I was about 13 then if I remember correctly but I didn't want to accept it. At that time, I told myself that it was just a phase and that eventually, I too would like girls just like the other teenage boys. As you can see, it wasn't a phase and I've come to the reality that I'm gay and there's nothing wrong with that. It's something I can't control even if I wanted to and throughout the years I've learned to accept who I am.

To be honest, nothing really "triggered it." For years, I would act "straight," and pretend I liked girls but I never had a girlfriend. I just suddenly realized I liked boys as more than friends but like I said, I didn't want to accept it so I kept my feelings hidden for years.
2) How has the community around you reacted to you coming out?

Surprisingly for me, mostly everyone has been accepting of it. As a matter of fact, most of the straight guys who know I'm gay have actually been cool about it, which is something I didn't expect. I thought they would find it disgusting and immoral but that's not the case. Most of them have told me that as long as a gay person doesn't flirt with them and doesn't try anything with them, they have no problems with it. It's still easier to tell girls though because they do tend to be more understandingg and I usually get along with them better since I'm not really the type that likes sports and today's video games like guys my age do.
 
If someone, like me for an example, has apprehensions that homosexuality is something that is forced and aggrandized through pop culture, as in, if you never knew there was such a thing, it would go away; Would such an assumption be incorrect?
 
If someone, like me for an example, has apprehensions that homosexuality is something that is forced and aggrandized through pop culture, as in, if you never knew there was such a thing, it would go away; Would such an assumption be incorrect?

I don't think it would be correct. Even if homosexuality wasn't force and aggrandized by pop culture (which I don't think is a completely accurate statement) you'd know about it becuase there would be groups that still fought for our rights. It might not be as big of an issue as it is now, but it's something that people would still know about because it's one of those contreversial topics that we have to deal with now since homosexuals don't have all of the rights heterosexuals do and because of many other factors.
 
Alright.

Why do you think it is difficult for some straight people to digest homosexuality? A certain number of straight folks who are secure about their sexuality find it repulsive, are they right in harboring such emotions?
 
Alright.

Why do you think it is difficult for some straight people to digest homosexuality? A certain number of straight folks who are secure about their sexuality find it repulsive, are they right in harboring such emotions?

I think it's difficult for straight people to digest homosexuality because it's something different, something they aren't used to. Let me provide an example for you. If someone who's been living in America their whole life and they were in the middle or upper class decides to travel to a country like India, they will more than likely experience some culture shock. India has a lot of poverty and some cities are absolutely dirty (as in there's trash anywhere on the streets) and a lot of the people are completely different than the people here. If you've lived in a clean area and you went there, you'd be out of place.

I think the same could be said about straight people who grew up seeing men and women together. If you've grown up that way and then you suddenly see two men together, you might feel confused as to why that's going on and might not be able to assimilate it like you would seeing a random straight couple at the mall or anywhere else.

As far as heterosexuals who are secure about their sexuality finding homosexuality repulsive, personally I don't feel it's right for them to have those type of emotions and don't think they're correct. Does that mean I would be correct if I thought being straight was repulsive? Of course not, but the great thing about America is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Even though I think opinions can be wrong, it doesn't mean you or anyone else can't have one. So although I disagree with those sentiments, it's okay for them to feel that way because it is within their rights which I can't deny them.
 
Well put.

Now I need to ask, Sex is a measure for reproducing and keeping a species alive scientifically speaking. In this day and age however it is a means of the ultimate pleasure. However in a hetero relationship it is applicable as it is how nature works, male impregnates the female.

Is this why a homosexual relationship is deemed unnatural?
 
Well put.

Now I need to ask, Sex is a measure for reproducing and keeping a species alive scientifically speaking. In this day and age however it is a means of the ultimate pleasure. However in a hetero relationship it is applicable as it is how nature works, male impregnates the female.

Is this why a homosexual relationship is deemed unnatural?

I wish there was a clear cut answer to this but there really isn't. I honestly haven't really read any articles or opinions about why people think homosexuality is unnatural since I think it's something that is completely natural and uncontrollable, but I guess it's possible that's part of the reason. It could also be that for centuries people have thought that men and women being together is the correct thing so to see men and men or women and women together, it might just not seem natural to them for whatever reason.

Sorry if I couldn't really answer the question like you'd expect, but I don't think I'm the correct person to answer that since I'm not familiar with the reasons. Maybe someone else can chime in and enlighten us.
 
If someone, like me for an example, has apprehensions that homosexuality is something that is forced and aggrandized through pop culture, as in, if you never knew there was such a thing, it would go away; Would such an assumption be incorrect?

Can you elaborate what you mean here? It sounds like you're saying, 'What would you say if I said that if pop culture and the media didn't keep talking about homosexuality and making it OK, then it would just go away' - but that's a pretty harsh position so I'm doubtful that's what you mean.

I think this somewhat answers your question though: Homosexuality has been around for thousands of years, there's a lot of evidence of homosexual behaviour and activities in many ancient cultures and societies, so it's not a byproduct of modern life, it's existed for a long time.


Alright.
Why do you think it is difficult for some straight people to digest homosexuality? A certain number of straight folks who are secure about their sexuality find it repulsive, are they right in harboring such emotions?

Evolutionary biology suggests that aversion to gay people could be the byproduct of an adaptation. Our 'purpose' is to propagate our genetic code, and being gay isn't conducive to this because if you're gay it's unlikely you're going to have kids, and thus you won't be propagating your genes. Thus it makes logical sense that evolving in a way that made it so that one didn't find the same sex attractive at all, or the thought of sex with a same sex person was repulsive could be beneficial. If that is indeed the case, than that is a good reason why we might view homosexuality as disgusting or repulsive, because we evolved to find it disgusting as a means for avoiding fruitless sexual endeavours.

It's not wrong to find thoughts of having sex with the same sex to be repulsive, it seems like we evolved that way and it's entirely natural. I personally don't enjoy the thought of having sex with another man, it's not for me, but that doesn't have to infect your thoughts on other people who do enjoy that.


Well put.

Now I need to ask, Sex is a measure for reproducing and keeping a species alive scientifically speaking. In this day and age however it is a means of the ultimate pleasure. However in a hetero relationship it is applicable as it is how nature works, male impregnates the female.

Is this why a homosexual relationship is deemed unnatural?

For one, even if something was unnatural, it doesn't means it's morally or ethically bad necessarily, that's the naturalistic fallacy.

Regardless of that though, if anything, homosexual is a natural thing. The fact is that there is a lot of evidence to show that homosexuality has been around for a long, long time and had permeated other societies and cultures. I think it's likely to say that homosexuality is a genetically inherited trait, there doesn't seem to be much evidence for that, but homosexuality keeps occurring so there's likely a reason for it.

There's some hypotheses with some evidence behind them to suggest that a homosexual son for example is more beneficial in certain circumstances than are heterosexual sons, like when there is a lot of competition among males for other females, and thus it would be profitable to have a gay son that would help existing relatives find mates and have children rather than competing himself.

There's another hypothesis about homosexual sons being more caring and giving than heterosexual relatives, and thus that's a potential benefit. There's another hypothesis that when a woman has a male child, some of the male hormones linger about in the mother, and the mother's body creates enzymes that destroy these hormones. After having two or three male children in a row, these enzymes could become too good at their good, or there might be too many of them, and when the next male child comes along, those enzymes destroy too much of that child's male hormones and thus the outcome is a gay child - there's some evidence for that hypothesis.

The point is that evidence suggests that homosexuality isn't a choice, it's a byproduct or an adaptation - we don't know which and we don't know exactly how or why it happens - but to call it unnatural makes no sense because it's naturally occurring across thousands of years.
 
I wish there was a clear cut answer to this but there really isn't. I honestly haven't really read any articles or opinions about why people think homosexuality is unnatural since I think it's something that is completely natural and uncontrollable, but I guess it's possible that's part of the reason. It could also be that for centuries people have thought that men and women being together is the correct thing so to see men and men or women and women together, it might just not seem natural to them for whatever reason.

Sorry if I couldn't really answer the question like you'd expect, but I don't think I'm the correct person to answer that since I'm not familiar with the reasons. Maybe someone else can chime in and enlighten us.

I think Salv has made those points but almost all are hypothetical.

I'll get to you soon Salv.


ST, I'm kinda bummed Sly's burning you out in the other room but I'll understand if you wanna wrap this up here.

Anyway, two more:
1) Do you think people who lobby against homosexuality have a point to raise?

2) Do you believe that if someone is given guidance as to why homosexuality is unnatural early on, he will come out of the phase? I mean, is it all curiosity turned confusion?
 
Anyway, two more:
1) Do you think people who lobby against homosexuality have a point to raise?

2) Do you believe that if someone is given guidance as to why homosexuality is unnatural early on, he will come out of the phase? I mean, is it all curiosity turned confusion?

I don't know if you're directing these questions towards SavageTaker or just anyone, but unless you tell me otherwise I'll answer them anyway.

1 ) They have a point to raise, but I don't think it's a good one. I've yet to hear a solid argument for those who lobby against homosexuality - being uncomfortable with it isn't a good reason in my opinion.

If I had to speculate on what's actually going on, I would say that it's a natural response for a person (this example a male) to find the thought of having sex with another man repulsive. There's very good logic, and there's evidence to suggest that we evolved this way to steer us away from having sex that won't bear children. Young men don't find older women more attractive than younger women generally because of this as well: a sexual endeavour with an older woman is less likely to yield successful children than is a relationship with a young fertile woman.

Thus, it makes sense that disliking and being turned off by homosexuality is a byproduct of the adaptation of avoiding gay sex. This is the same reason we're turned off by incest, we have an aversion to it because it's going to yield mentally deficient children because inbreeding. However we know this is what's going on, and consciously you can change your attitude about it.

Men are biologically programmed to try to have sex with every fertile woman he can, but we don't do that because in western society and culture that doesn't fly - we restrain ourselves despite our natural inclinations, the same can be done for the finding homosexuality repulsive. The response is natural, but changeable, and we should change that response because it's destructive to gay individuals and because we don't need that adaptation anymore.

2) Do you believe that if someone is given guidance as to why homosexuality is unnatural early on, he will come out of the phase? I mean, is it all curiosity turned confusion?

There really isn't evidence to suggest that's the case. The current scientific reasoning for homosexuality suggests that there is a mix of biological and cultural factors - most likely that the biological inclination is either there or it isn't and certain cultural or societal factors may make that inclination stronger or weaker - but either way it's there. None of these Christian camps where they try to cleanse their homosexuality work, and any gay person will tell you it's not a choice, that's simply how they are.
 
I have a completely serious question...


In your opinion, is it still homophobic if someone goes "I'm not homophobic, but I don't personally find it something I want my son/daughter doing"?

I'll try to put this into another "discriminating" factor that I personally have experience with.

In high school, I dated a white girl for six months before she introduced me to her parents. Now, her parents knew that I was black and for a while her father tried as hard as he could to not seem like a racists... and really, he's not. He's a cool guy and we still get along great.

But as much as he tried, he just couldn't get used to the fact that a white person was dating a black person. I know, it sounds racist but the way I see it, it would've been more racist to hide it than to come clean about it.


Is that virtually how one of the same sex supporters would see it?
 
In your opinion, is it still homophobic if someone goes "I'm not homophobic, but I don't personally find it something I want my son/daughter doing"?

I'll try to put this into another "discriminating" factor that I personally have experience with.

In high school, I dated a white girl for six months before she introduced me to her parents. Now, her parents knew that I was black and for a while her father tried as hard as he could to not seem like a racists... and really, he's not. He's a cool guy and we still get along great.

But as much as he tried, he just couldn't get used to the fact that a white person was dating a black person. I know, it sounds racist but the way I see it, it would've been more racist to hide it than to come clean about it.


Is that virtually how one of the same sex supporters would see it?

I posted this in another thread also, but I think it depends on why someone wouldn't want their son or daughter to be homosexual. There are legitimate reasons why you might not want a gay son or daughter, just like there are some legitimate reasons why you might want a boy over a girl, however it seems like a lot of people are just disgusted at the prospect of having a gay child and they don't know why.

You can be perfectly calm and still be a homophobe, and you could be perfectly fine around Black people and still be racist, you don't need to be a raging lunatic to fit the definition. So I would say that if someone says they don't want a gay son or daughter, I'd question if they were homophobic, but I'd find out the reason for it.

Also I don't think hiding or admitting one's homophobia or racism changes much. I wouldn't say, yeah he's a racist but at least he admits it, I wouldn't give anyone props for that. Only good thing is that maybe then they would realize that they're doing something wrong and try to fix it.
 
I think Salv has made those points but almost all are hypothetical.

I'll get to you soon Salv.


ST, I'm kinda bummed Sly's burning you out in the other room but I'll understand if you wanna wrap this up here.

Don't worry, I'm not burned out just yet by Sly.

Anyway, two more:
1) Do you think people who lobby against homosexuality have a point to raise?
Absolutely not. Just because someone is gay doesn't mean they are all that different than straight people. Homosexuals still pay their taxes, they still go out and vote and there is a plethora of other things that homosexuals do that heterosexuals do too. Therefore, when I see people lobbying against homosexuality it really irks me. The differences between between gays and straights are so minimal that they shouldn't even make a difference to be honest.

2) Do you believe that if someone is given guidance as to why homosexuality is unnatural early on, he will come out of the phase? I mean, is it all curiosity turned confusion?

Let me put it this way, if someone is gay then they are going to be gay no matter what people tell them. Sure, they might be led to believe that it's unnatural and it's not right, but I firmly believe that eventually something will make them open their eyes and make them accept who they are. Like I mentioned with me earlier, at first I thought it was just a phase and that eventually I too would like women. But as you see now, that wasn't the case at all. So yes, I think they'll eventually come out of that phase. It may take a couple of years or even decades for some people, but I think it would eventually happen.
 

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