Hogan Opinions on The Rocks Return Retort to Hogan

[Slyfox696]

Hogan was indeed right and let's face it, he should know about a past star returning to take the spotlight off of the current stars

Oh yeah? He should? Why do you say that?

No, it couldn't have. Remember who Cena is. He's the biggest name in professional wrestling today. He's the biggest draw in America. And you think that a promo by someone that plenty of Cena fans would struggle to remember would bury him? I fail to see the logic.

Uhh, yes, it could have. Despite what the IWC would have you think, Cena's fans aren't limited to children. He has PLENTY of teenagers and adult fans as well. The whole Cena hate started because he feuded with IWC darlings Chris Jericho and Kurt Angle.

To say that being put down by another IWC hero couldn't have hurt him is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Барбоса]

Oh yeah? He should? Why do you say that?

Sure, Hogan never to my knowledge tore down a talent on the mic like Rock's return did but he should at least know that he has done something similar in the past. His periodic appearances in the WWE, coming in for a one off victorious match, could be said to have taken empahsis off those in the main events.

Is that Hogan's fault? No and I concede that he and HBK quite rightly had the main event spot at Summerslam as the rest of the card was pretty under par/dire. TNA might be a slightly different story.

Again I think that Hogan is indeed right about what he said (although the fact that Rocky's promo has seen, almost forced, Cena to come up with the promo goods in his reply) but there is a slight tinge of hypocrisy in the fact that it is Hogan saying it.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Hogan was the main attraction in Summerslam 2005 and 2006 and people still complain that Orton should have won.

 

[Slyfox696]

Sure, Hogan never to my knowledge tore down a talent on the mic like Rock's return did but he should at least know that he has done something similar in the past. His periodic appearances in the WWE, coming in for a one off victorious match, could be said to have taken empahsis off those in the main events.

So now it's his fault McMahon asks him to wrestle in a match, and his star power is greater than those in the main-events? I don't understand. Did Hogan ever come out and say "hey, I'm the whole show, and these other guys don't deserve to be on my stage"? If not, you don't really have an argument here.

Is that Hogan's fault? No and I concede that he and HBK quite rightly had the main event spot at Summerslam as the rest of the card was pretty under par/dire.

Fair enough.

TNA might be a slightly different story.

Not really. He's CLEARLY the biggest star TNA has ever had walk through the doors. If his being in the spotlight helps put TNA on a different level, then it's worth it.

but there is a slight tinge of hypocrisy in the fact that it is Hogan saying it.

And I'm just not seeing the hypocrisy. No one has put over more workers in their career than Hogan. I'm not talking about "losing", as the IWC generally misunderstands it, I'm talking about legitimately putting over. Do you remember Zeus? If so, then that's all I need to say about Hulk Hogan.

 

[Slyfox696]

Hogan was the main attraction in Summerslam 2005 and 2006 and people still complain that Orton should have won.

And conveniently forget the fact Orton had just come back from a 60 day unprofessional conduct suspension, and had just been made to look like a jobber to Kurt Angle.

One year after his feud with Hogan, Orton was champion. That's called Hogan putting another talent over.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I can understand why Hogan isn't liked because of his backstage politics and whatnot but I still can't get out of my head the fact that guys used to go up to Hogan and thank him for putting food on their table. That says a lot and how much one man can do a whole lot for a business. People like to compare Hogan and Austin but I never had anyone answer the question that I've always asked, "Who has Austin put over in his career?"

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Sure, Hogan never to my knowledge tore down a talent on the mic like Rock's return did but he should at least know that he has done something similar in the past. His periodic appearances in the WWE, coming in for a one off victorious match, could be said to have taken empahsis off those in the main events.

Like who? It's no secret that Jericho wasn't the first choice to be undisputed champion and he was basically Stephanie's lackey in his feud with HHH. Of course the nWo returning didn't help but nonethless, Jericho wasn't going to look good coming out of that. I didn't mind Hogan getting the title for a one month run even at the expense of HHH. I would have liked to have had HHH hold the built until Summerslam so Lesnar could take it off of him.

 

[Барбоса]

So now it's his fault McMahon asks him to wrestle in a match, and his star power is greater than those in the main-events? I don't understand. Did Hogan ever come out and say "hey, I'm the whole show, and these other guys don't deserve to be on my stage"? If not, you don't really have an argument here.

Some of the things attributed to Hogan regarding his match with Orton in 2006(?) were a little derogatory towards Vince and Cena.

Not really. He's CLEARLY the biggest star TNA has ever had walk through the doors. If his being in the spotlight helps put TNA on a different level, then it's worth it.

But will he step aside if it is proven that his association with TNA is doing no good? Or worse still, is actually a detriment to its development? A very tough thing to prove, I know and it will not be his fault if TNA decide to keep paying him for doing very little.

And I'm just not seeing the hypocrisy. No one has put over more workers in their career than Hogan. I'm not talking about "losing", as the IWC generally misunderstands it, I'm talking about legitimately putting over. Do you remember Zeus? If so, then that's all I need to say about Hulk Hogan.

Don't get me wrong, 1980s Hogan and pre-nWo Hogan was more than willing to put over his opponents and again it was not his fault that Vince and then WCW were happy to have him triumph in the end. That is what wrestling is all about.

However, has he gone out of his way to protect his character's superhero image, even if it was potentially to the detriment of his opponent? I think so. nWo Hogan and beyond has been less willing to do the job. For every defeat to Rock at Mania 18, losing the title to Taker and tapping out to Angle, there is the balls up with Sting (x2), Fingerpoke, beating Orton and HBK.

Then again, the overriding question is not whether Orton, HBK or Cena lost anything from their encounters but did they gain anything? Right now, I would say that Cena actually is in a position to benefit from Rock's promo.

 

[Chrome]

Wow, the idiocy is running rampant in this thread.

1) Hogan is absolutely right. He and McMahon see things differently.

2) I agree with Hogan about his comments on Rock and Cena.

3) There is NO ONE in pro wrestling who has made more guys main-eventers than Hulk Hogan. For all of you saying he "buries" people, you are fucking nuts. He has put over more people than anyone in history.

Of course, you'd have to understand what "put over" actually means, so I can see why some of you fail to understand this point.

4) Blaming the death of WCW on Hogan is ignorance at its finest. Anyone who knows anything about the history of WCW knows how dumb that position is.

I agree with everything above.

 

[Chrome]

And conveniently forget the fact Orton had just come back from a 60 day unprofessional conduct suspension, and had just been made to look like a jobber to Kurt Angle.

One year after his feud with Hogan, Orton was champion. That's called Hogan putting another talent over.

FACT dude I like you more and more now LOL

 

[Chrome]

However, has he gone out of his way to protect his character's superhero image, even if it was potentially to the detriment of his opponent? I think so. nWo Hogan and beyond has been less willing to do the job. For every defeat to Rock at Mania 18, losing the title to Taker and tapping out to Angle, there is the balls up with Sting (x2), Fingerpoke, beating Orton and HBK.

ALL wrestlers protect their image.. its a business.. and putting some one over doesn't mean you have to LOSE or JOB to them.. Hogan has made more main eventers than anyone .. 1980's AND 1990's including the NWO. Everyone he wrestled in NWO mainevented and got tons of notority.. But if your definition of JOB is LOSE too then lets see he lost to BigShow in WCW, Lex Luger, Sting, Goldberg, Ric Flair, BILLY FUCKING KIDMAN... etc.. your memory seems to be jaded.. Heck even people in there shoot DVD's claim that as bad as WCW management was, Hogan was always cool with them. Xpac, Vampiro, Sunny, and a lot of other mainevent & mid carders in the DVD's all stated the same thing. EVERYONE benefited from Hogan's involvement. INCLUDING the NWO.. the NWO would not have been as popular if it wasn't for Hogan.

hell who made Undertaker a main eventer? HOGAN did everyone forget that in the early 90's HOGAN in WWF in is Prime still put over a GREEN Undertaker too? (Much like he did for Bigshow when he was green) Hogan also put over Yokozuna, the Rock, heck everyone who faced him made more money and gained more popularity regardless if they won.. like say... Psycho Sid etc. He also put over, Ultimate Warrior, Kurt Angle, Brock lesnar, etc the list goes on and on.

Heck if there was no Hogan than Bobby Heenan would have had no purpose.. everyone he managed was to take out hogan in some way or form. Not LOSING to them didn't mean he didn't put them over.

 

[Daniel]

Uhh, yes, it could have. Despite what the IWC would have you think, Cena's fans aren't limited to children. He has PLENTY of teenagers and adult fans as well.

I didn't say that Cena's fans are limited to children. However, they are a large part of his fanbase and the ones who make him the 'cash cow' of WWE.

The whole Cena hate started because he feuded with IWC darlings Chris Jericho and Kurt Angle.

To say that being put down by another IWC hero couldn't have hurt him is absolutely ridiculous.

The IWC is a small minority of wrestling fans who aren't relevant in this situation. The majority of the IWC hates Cena regardless of what he or anyone else does, it's his core fanbase that matters. And his "core fanbase" wouldn't be affected by what The Rock says.

 

[Slyfox696]

But will he step aside if it is proven that his association with TNA is doing no good? Or worse still, is actually a detriment to its development? A very tough thing to prove, I know and it will not be his fault if TNA decide to keep paying him for doing very little.

That doesn't make sense. Does Vince McMahon step aside when his running of the company causes problems? Does Stephanie?

Hulk Hogan's job is backstage now. He only comes on camera because it's good for the company to have him on there. And there will never be a time when Hulk Hogan on TV is a bad thing.

Don't get me wrong, 1980s Hogan and pre-nWo Hogan was more than willing to put over his opponents and again it was not his fault that Vince and then WCW were happy to have him triumph in the end. That is what wrestling is all about.

However, has he gone out of his way to protect his character's superhero image, even if it was potentially to the detriment of his opponent? I think so. nWo Hogan and beyond has been less willing to do the job. For every defeat to Rock at Mania 18, losing the title to Taker and tapping out to Angle, there is the balls up with Sting (x2), Fingerpoke, beating Orton and HBK.

See chrome's response. He nailed it.

Then again, the overriding question is not whether Orton, HBK or Cena lost anything from their encounters but did they gain anything? Right now, I would say that Cena actually is in a position to benefit from Rock's promo.

Well, Orton went from a suspension and being made to look like a jobber, to a World Champion a year after his feud with Hogan.

Yeah, I'd say he gained. And HBK was never going to gain or lose from Hogan. That was simply a matchup of two big established stars. Hogan was just the far bigger star.

I didn't say that Cena's fans are limited to children. However, they are a large part of his fanbase and the ones who make him the 'cash cow' of WWE.

Well, you did implied it, when you said plenty of Cena fans won't remember who Rock is. So either you were deliberately being misleading, or you were implying Cena's fans are mostly children.

Either way, it looks bad for you.

The IWC is a small minority of wrestling fans who aren't relevant in this situation. The majority of the IWC hates Cena regardless of what he or anyone else does, it's his core fanbase that matters. And his "core fanbase" wouldn't be affected by what The Rock says.

Except the IWC was the group who began the influential "let's hate on Cena" schtick back in 06 and 07, so my statement remains true.

 

[X]

3) There is NO ONE in pro wrestling who has made more guys main-eventers than Hulk Hogan. For all of you saying he "buries" people, you are fucking nuts. He has put over more people than anyone in history.

SURELY you jest. Surely. I can name on one hand the people Hogan put over clean. Warrior, Billy Kidman, The Rock...yeah I'm already out of names.

Honestly man that's just flat out false. Guys like Foley and The Rock put over more people than Hogan ever dreamed of.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Whether it did or not is irrelevant to the fact it COULD have. Why take that chance for a guy who is rarely around? And it would be one thing to say that stuff about, say, The Miz, because he's a heel, and he's not the number one guy in the company, the biggest moneymaker.

Why take that chance? Your biggest current star vs. the biggest star before him. It would draw like no other match they have, and it needs to get personal. I have to admit, I'm still a bit confused as to where this is all going since I don't see it ending up in a big Cena vs. Rock blowoff at Mania. That's the only problem I see.

But he's not. We're on the Road to Wrestlemania, and people tuned in to see if Rock was coming back and see Undertaker come back. Once Rock is gone again, and we don't have cryptic returns, do you think that rating will stay that high?

No, it won't. However, I've read Vince wants a million buys for Mania. I'm not saying it's possible, but apparently that's what he wants. Giving Rock the spotlight on one or two episodes of Raw isn't a big deal, even if he's tearing into their biggest star. I agree they took a chance on Rock/Cena trading insults, but I think it was a good choice. Even if it would have diminished Cena, I doubt it would have hurt WrestleMania 27.

And finally, what does ratings have to do with making money? You can get 5.0 ratings, but if people don't buy your merch, don't go to your live events and don't pay for your PPVs, what good is a rating? Don't get me wrong, ratings are important (as it shows the interest in your product), but one week's ratings are not enough justification for a guy who is never around to come back and bury your top moneymaker.

When you're trying to get a million buys for Mania it's a good enough reason.

Hulk Hogan was absolutely right, and no one can deny it.

Odd, seems like a few have done so already.

 

[shattered dreams]

Remember when Rock buried all of WCW via Booker T? That worked out real well ...

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

WCW was six feet under long before The Rock did anything.

 

[X]

Remember when Rock buried all of WCW via Booker T? That worked out real well ...

You gotta be fucking kidding me.

That was ALL Vince McMahon. Had nothing to do with The Rock. The Rock was well known for being a guy that was ALWAYS willing to put ANYONE over, no matter their position on the card. He put over everyone, Triple H, Mick Foley, Chris Jericho, Goldberg, everyone.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Mick Foley put over The Rock more than the other way around.

 

[shattered dreams]

That was ALL Vince McMahon.

Which is the topic of this thread, correct?

Personally, I would be hard pressed to describe the rock as selfless.

WCW was six feet under long before The Rock did anything.

Yes but the invasion storyline was in its infancy.

 

[X]

Let's see...the opinion of everyone who's ever worked with The Rock...or Shattered Dreams, WrestleZone poster.

I think I know who's opinion I'm going to take more seriously on the matter. The Rock has always been a very well liked guy backstage.

 

[shattered dreams]

Yeah, Foley only had positive things to say about the way the rock handled business ...

Also, I will play the game too and take the opinion of the majority of the people that worked with Hogan over yours.

Rock has been in business for himself for a long time prior to that recent promo. I understand why, and do not blame him, but I have a hard time believing everyone is thrilled about how he treated the business, that gave him the platform to his success to begin with, in a time when it really could have used some help.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Personally, I would be hard pressed to describe the rock as selfless.

Then, as so often is the case, you would be wrong.

Yes but the invasion storyline was in its infancy.

When WCW was sold? It was sold because it was dead. SD, just..stop. You have no argument here, and I think you know it.

Also, I will play the game too and take the opinion of the majority of the people that worked with Hogan over yours.

I've heard as much negative about Hogan as positive. Maybe some of them were just jealous douchetards, but it's what I've heard.

 

[shattered dreams]

Nick, I do not think you understand what I am getting at. The Rock, probably via Vince, buried WCW. This was at a time when they were launching a major story where the audience was supposed to take WCW etc. seriously. Sting has said it played a major role in his decision not to join the company (IMO Hogan's comments about what happened here have similarities to what Sting said happened then). There was a lot that could have been done with WCW and some of the guys from it but Vince's ego or miscalculation led to the whole thing failing on many levels. Ultimately, many of us look back at this failure to incorporate what WCW offered as the beginning of the downfall of the business.

 

[X]

Yeah, Foley only had positive things to say about the way the rock handled business ...

Errr...yeah....he did actually. Foley and The Rock were/are friends. The only "heat" they've ever had was after the '99 Rumble and The Rock felt like shit about that anyways and Foley forgave him.

Also, I will play the game too and take the opinion of the majority of the people that worked with Hogan over yours.

So then you'll be taking the majority opinion, that Hogan is a blood-sucking scumbag only interested in getting himself and his buddies a payday? Because that's pretty much been what EVERYONE has said about Hogan for the last 20 years Shattered.

You really didn't think that through.

Rock has been in business for himself for a long time prior to that recent promo.

How the fuck do you figure? By putting aside his multi-million dollar acting career just to come back for Wrestlemania when he could be making more money acting in films?

Seriously, you're talking out of your ass here.

I understand why, and do not blame him, but I have a hard time believing everyone is thrilled about how he treated the business, that gave him the platform to his success to begin with, in a time when it really could have used some help.

First of all I was talking about Rocky putting people over...which, you know, would be in the timeframe he actually WAS with the company, before he left for Hollywood. During that time he was one of the most well liked guys backstage and was always willing to put other people over. Further more when he returned two weeks ago all reports are that everyone backstage was thrilled he was there and there was no heat on him at all. And why should there be? Unlike Hogan, Piper, Austin and others his acting career actually took off.

Nick, I do not think you understand what I am getting at. The Rock, probably via Vince, buried WCW.

More talking directly out of your ass. First off, The Rock didn't bury jack shit. If you think Booker T's loss at Summerslam is what buried WCW in the WWE, you are seriously delusional. They buried WCW in every way, at every level, by Vince's order. Had nothing to do with The Rock, who after beating Booker T then went on to feud with Jericho and put him over. WCW was buried long before Summerslam, and it had nothing to do with The Rock.

This was at a time when they were launching a major story where the audience was supposed to take WCW etc. seriously. Sting has said it played a major role in his decision not to join the company (IMO Hogan's comments about what happened here have similarities to what Sting said happened then). There was a lot that could have been done with WCW and some of the guys from it but Vince's ego or miscalculation led to the whole thing failing on many levels. Ultimately, many of us look back at this failure to incorporate what WCW offered as the beginning of the downfall of the business.

Again, all of that was Vince's and creatives fault---not The Rock's. At all.