Honestly great post man. What I was trying to say with the "hogan not jobbing" issue was he never seems to have the biz in mind. He has creative control in how he is booked. You can say no to that all you want but you know its true. Orton had alot going for him with the whole legend killing gimmick, and he had alot to gain from that match. and as far as the shoot goes, Im really not talking out of my ass when I brought that up... I really just cant find the link. its going back a few years ago.
As far as HBK goes and the whole "christain" issue. That had nothing to do with my argument. If bret hart was a consummate professional, HBK prolly would've faced him at mania. was bret a professional? Ask Montreal.
And if i'm not mistaken, Michaels "lost my smile" thing was his on air reason for leaving. (pretty sure he had an injury could be wrong)
Now, For Hulk Hogan.... Do we agree that he needs to give it up?
Hey boss, yeah I mean it's not that I ever doubted Hogan's creative control or ego, but I think it's sometimes unjustifiably overblown when you think about what some of the rumor mill says. I mean I brought up HBK's christian beliefs because it seems like because he all of a sudden found christ after his sabbatical from the ring it all of a sudden makes it seem as if HBK can do no wrong in his later career and that he never did any wrong in the first place. I mean don't get me wrong I have much issue with the Montreal situation if it was indeed as true as the WWF/E made it out to be, for as much as a Bret Hart fan I am, that whole concept of arguing with Vince over how he was going to drop the belt really annoyed me as a fan. To speak in fairness to Hogan, I never remember there being rumors about him arguing with Vince to that extent. But at the same time, the stories of Shawn Michaels past years and the subsequent sanitation of his image just make me gag because I feel it's just all a WWE PR stunt. At the time of his program with Hogan, I would have preferred of course to see a longer running feud to go past one match, but I wasn't there to see what went down backstage to know what really caused the ego clash. And if you want to believe the rumors, which I am not keen on absolutely buying but believing it's possible, there's scuttlebutt that Michaels had MAJOR issue with dropping the title to Austin and Taker had to talk him into it rather forcibly. Again it's only speculation, but I never heard of anyone having to physically threaten Hogan in the past over a job, granted he was the top guy so that may sound easier said than done, but at the same time, there were plenty of stars in WCW that I am sure Hogan had to compete with a lot more than we might think. Piper, Nash, Hall, Flair, and Savage I am sure all had their egos that made Hogan's run behind the scenes difficult at times. And let's not forget even with all his creative control, how do you explain David Arquette waking out of WCW Thunder one night as World Champion. That's why I argue how foolproof Hogan's creative control card was.
Then with Orton, it's not that I don't believe you, but I would like to see the video, I mean it's possible, but we are only getting one side of the story here. Randy Orton by far had a great roll with his legend killer gimmick, but from what I have heard and shown you in those links, even after serving his suspension, I hold out the possibility and believe that it's very likely that Orton's attitude problems did not help him when he took on Hogan at SummerSlam 2006. Again, I don't doubt the ego factor of Hogan, but I don't think it's as black and white as the yellow journalism of wrestling news makes it out to be.
In closing, I sure as hell agree with you that Hogan is just too old to have the same role in wrestling. Personally speaking, I'd prefer to see Hogan in a Jack Tunney role where he serves as an impartial figure in pro wrestling with TNA as their president. You know to make the big announcements and decisions. So yeah I think he needs to give up that idea of being the top guy, but at the same time I do believe there are efforts that are being made and that I think Hogan's negative rep just gets overblown at times, especially with information that is shady at best, especially when the WWE has the advantage of being able to tell the story in their own way. (Just watch Shawn Michaels: My Journey and read some interviews from WWE Magazine over the years and you'll see what I mean.)
Otherwise, I appreciate what's turned out to be a respectable debate. My only aim when I post like this to try to show things from more than one angle, because I just feel too much on the internet is skewed and while Pro Wrestling isn't a subject that's as Earth shattering or profound as something like World History or Politics, it' s a subject I still want to speak about in a more focused and open minded fashion. I believe in your latest post you have shown that, so you have my appreciation. Look forward to more postings!
