Has Punk done it?

[the_vipers_enigma]

Now we all know that there are some superstars that we all agree are bigger than the WWE Championship. Such guys are Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, HHH, Cena, SCSA, The Rock and more. They all have reached a point in their careers were they simply do not need the title to be relevant. My question for you is do you think CM Punk has reached this point in his career? I mean he is massively over and is the longest reigning WWE Champion in the last 6 years which is definitely impressive and by the looks of it the WWE is very high on him and he has become a permanent main eventer.

 

[theBec2101]

I don’t think he is bigger than the belt. I don’t really know if the title needs CM Punk to be relevant. But I do know he was on the way out the door till he got the belt. So I guess the title makes him relevant or at least trying to get the belt makes you relevant. You could say he forced the company’s hand, or you could say lack of options as well. I mean you got Cena, Orton Cena, Y2J, Cena, or Punk o-yea there's always Cena. I guess they wanted to shake it up a little bit.

 

[Nada]

Well let us realistically consider where Punk would at this years Mania if he goes into it without the WWE belt? Do you see him against a major star or in a throwaway match? Last Mania he was overshadowed by Taker v Hunter and Rock v Cena, understandbly so.

But this year, will his match matter at all unless he faces a big star? I doubt it

 

[LegendKiller716]

I want to start off by saying Punk is by far my favorite current wrestler (#3 all time), but with that said, no Punk is not bigger than the belt. I would still put Punk in that second tier class along with guys like Sheamus, Del Rio, and Orton. They all have names, but those names alone won't sell a PPV. It takes a long time to be put in that special class and IMO the only WWE full timer that can say he's bigger than the belt is Cena. Love him or hate him, that's truth.

 

[CRuckVoV]

I want to start off by saying Punk is by far my favorite current wrestler (#3 all time), but with that said, no Punk is not bigger than the belt. I would still put Punk in that second tier class along with guys like Sheamus, Del Rio, and Orton. They all have names, but those names alone won't sell a PPV. It takes a long time to be put in that special class and IMO the only WWE full timer that can say he's bigger than the belt is Cena. Love him or hate him, that's truth.

I agree that Punk is not bigger than the belt, but he is way bigger a presence to the title than any other champion. He is in a way synonymous with the title as it is part of him and his character. I remember watching and old Smackdown clip sometime after SummerSlam where he was cutting a promo with Christian and looking back it was strange seeing him without the belt around his waist.

As far as Cena being bigger than the belt, I think the only reason Cena can be considered bigger than the belt is the same reason that Punk can't be and that's because the WWE wants it that way. They're going to aggressive push Cena as their top guy, but in reality there's nothing separating Cena from Punk as a performer besides the bosses blessing

 

[JaylisJayP]

I want to start off by saying Punk is by far my favorite current wrestler (#3 all time), but with that said, no Punk is not bigger than the belt. I would still put Punk in that second tier class along with guys like Sheamus, Del Rio, and Orton. They all have names, but those names alone won't sell a PPV. It takes a long time to be put in that special class and IMO the only WWE full timer that can say he's bigger than the belt is Cena. Love him or hate him, that's truth.

This is exactly how I feel, as well.

If Punk were bigger than the belt, he'd have been main eventing PPVs with or without the belt, but certainly WITH the belt, and he wasn't. Bottom line is Punk can't sell a PPV. Sorry Punk fans, I'm a Punk fan but it's true.

Cena, Lesnar, HHH, Taker, HBK, Rock, Austin are top tier names of past and present.

Punk is in the middle of tier 2 with Edge, Foley, Randy Orton, etc..

And, just my opinion, but Sheamus is even one tier lower. Down there with Big Show and Kane. Daniel Bryan is in this tier but he's on the rise.

I honestly feel the reason Punk is so huge right now is that everyone else aside from Cena is just lacking that entire package. In fact, the one guy I'd put right under Punk if he'd ever REALLY get a chance is Kofi Kingston. The guy has mic skills and he just needs a better-defined identity to go with everything else.

Punk gets tons of credit for being his own man and basically pushing himself to super-stardom.

Here's the best test for answering the "Is he bigger than the belt?" question. Would you pay to see him wrestle someone on a tier below him? I wouldn't. Punk vs. Sheamus, Punk vs. Ziggler, Punk vs. Miz....doesn't stand up too well in a main event slot.

Will be VERY interesting to see the buyrates for Punk vs. Ryback (maybe I'll eat my words), but I think everyone buying it strongly feels that Cena and/or Vince will be making an appearance...with that outside chance Lesnar shows up, as well.

 

[CRuckVoV]

This is exactly how I feel, as well.

If Punk were bigger than the belt, he'd have been main eventing PPVs with or without the belt, but certainly WITH the belt, and he wasn't. Bottom line is Punk can't sell a PPV. Sorry Punk fans, I'm a Punk fan but it's true.

Cena, Lesnar, HHH, Taker, HBK, Rock, Austin are top tier names of past and present.

Punk is in the middle of tier 2 with Edge, Foley, Randy Orton, etc..

And, just my opinion, but Sheamus is even one tier lower. Down there with Big Show and Kane. Daniel Bryan is in this tier but he's on the rise.

I honestly feel the reason Punk is so huge right now is that everyone else aside from Cena is just lacking that entire package. In fact, the one guy I'd put right under Punk if he'd ever REALLY get a chance is Kofi Kingston. The guy has mic skills and he just needs a better-defined identity to go with everything else.

Punk gets tons of credit for being his own man and basically pushing himself to super-stardom.

Here's the best test for answering the "Is he bigger than the belt?" question. Would you pay to see him wrestle someone on a tier below him? I wouldn't. Punk vs. Sheamus, Punk vs. Ziggler, Punk vs. Miz....doesn't stand up too well in a main event slot.

Will be VERY interesting to see the buyrates for Punk vs. Ryback (maybe I'll eat my words), but I think everyone buying it strongly feels that Cena and/or Vince will be making an appearance...with that outside chance Lesnar shows up, as well.

There's nothing Punk can do if the company insists on pushing someone else and refuses to get behind him. No matter what happens, they're going to go with Cena, so that's not Punk's fault.

 

[silrock316]

Punk IS my current favorite wrestler and NO he is NOT above the belt. The Undertaker, John Cena, The Rock and HHH are the active guys that do NOT need the belt to have a fued truely matter.

With that said there is plenty of guys, Cm Punk included, that with a good PERSONAL storyline could headline a ppv or two without the belt. Building on the personalness of the aforementioned feuds/matches.

However, I think CM Punk is in the middle of a heel run that, if put together well, like it is right now, could turn CM Punk into the BEST HEEL since HHH when he was fueding with Austin and then the Rock. Punk has the respect of mostly all the fans, including the internet fans and he has been loved by the kids and he means something to all of them, whether they like him or hate him right now. So he is CLEARLY relevant. If he fueds with Ryback and then fueds with Cena again and goes on to play the heel in a fued with the Rock and finishes his heel run in a possible dream match for me against Austin, after ALL of that I truely believe he could stand on his own without the belt and have a true legacy burned into WWE history and the hearts of fans of all kind.

Heres hoping he continues to do well as a heel and doesnt get turned into a babyface before he is ready to go down that road again because I really think he can be GREAT GREAT the way he is being booked right.

Putting him a mini stable with Lesnar and Heyman wouldn't hurt either.

 

[Azane]

Punk is on the edge right now, in having his name along the list of Austin, Rock, EVEN Hogan and Flair, but I think he has just a little further to go to hit that point.

I definitely think he can maintain a strong persona without the belt, but he very much was this generations Stone Cold for a time. this year long reign has felt much less forced than when Cena or JBL did theirs, and as such, I think the length has helped him tremendously


His drawing power is only growing right now, and I think it would continue to grow with or without the belt.

He probably needs 1 or 2 amazing feuds to push him above the belt, let's see where it goes.

 

[Lockard23]

Not yet. But in the next 2-3 years Punk will be. At this point, he has very little left to prove and after a couple more great reigns he won't need to be champ anymore. Besides, if he does retire in 2015 like he said he might, he won't have a chance to be "too big" for the title. By then, he will be gone.

 

[LeviCook]

CM Punk is not bigger than the WWE Championship. Since his big push he has pretty much stayed in the title picture rather he is champion or just a contender. We haven't seen much feuds lately from Punk that doesn't involve the title. CM Punk is a great wrestler and extremely entertaining. Seems like no matter what he does he finds a way to make you want to watch. With that being said this wasn't always the case. Punk always had that ability but it wasn't until he cut the famous promo that got him over that we saw this from him. For all we know he could fall back into obscurity. I doubt that will happen but we'll have to wait and see. Punk still has some accomplishments he could obtain. The main one being, main eventing Wrestlemania. All the superstars that are bigger than the WWE Championship are bigger because they have held the title multiple times. I don't want to doubt Punk but i'm not sure if he will reach that point, at least not in the next couple years. At this point i feel like Randy Orton is closer to achieving that over Punk. Punk still has a lot to prove to the WWE fans. Which isn't a bad thing, that means he still has something to go after. If Punk can stay at the level he is at now for the next 3-4 years then he will most likely become bigger than the championship. But in all honestly i don't think that should be the case. Not just with Punk but with every wrestler. The WWE championship should be seen as the biggest prize in wrestling and what EVERY superstar is going after. If the title meant what i believe it should mean, a lot less superstars would hold that belt. Off the top of my head, Del Rio would not have been champion. It would be only held by superstars who had truly made it to the top and earned it. The superstars should be the ones who make the title rather than relying on the title to make the superstar. If the title was only held by the best, it would make the title seem like it's actually worth something besides just a prop. They need to cut down on early title changes as well as undeserving superstars being champion. Use the United States and Intercontinental title to build your superstars. Let them feud over those. Will also make those titles more relevant.

 

[Kelso1ftw]

I think Punk is trying to bring up the Title to the point where no one should be above the title. That's the whole point of the title, it goes for the best and the biggest draw and no one should be over the title. The title should be the main event, and that is more or less what he wants to accomplish. That is where this whole respect angle is coming from because he has been placed 2nd to other story lines when the WWE championship should always be the big story that is going on. I don't think punk wants to ever be above the title, he just wants to push the title above everyone else no matter how its done. The prestige factor has been missing for quite some time with most of the championships (especially the mid card titles). I think that needs to become more of a focus in the WWE and working on draws and selling storylines that go with the championships and build them up again.

 

[XXJJ]

No not at this time. I think he needs the title. Also, you have to see how he does when he is not involved with the WWE title to really judge if he is above the title.

I think Cena and Orton are the only two current wrestlers that are above the title in the WWE. I dont think either guy needs the title and they can stay relevant and credible without winning the title.

 

[RicSpade]

For those people arguing for the sake of arguing, I'll stop you right there, watch his DVD, Triple H that people make the belt special, and Punks first runs, that Punk before he became himself the Belt tried to make Punk. Now it is different though, Punk is more over then he was the first two times, and he showed he can be over as a face, heel, and tweener. Now does that mean he is big enough of an attraction he doesn't need the belt? Its not that simple see Cena is a major draw, but if on the card he's facing Jo Schmo from addleberry idaho, no one is going to give a damn, its a two way street, Punk is a big enough draw to be in a high profile match without a title and be relevant, but like Cena or Hogan or a Flair, just having the name on the marquee means nothing if its a squash in the process...

 

[dtroppe]

The answer is an easy no. Wrestlers that are bigger than the belt are mega-superstars. Punk is not even close to this level. Not Even close. Ratings steadily decline when Punk is prominent on the card. That doesn't even matter- look at Punk as a star- you think the average person knows who CM Punk is. No way. Did they know who Hogan was- yes. Austin-Yes. Rock- Yes. Goldburg-yes. Cena - Yes. HHH- probably at least on sight. Undertaker- probably. Brock Lesner- yes. Cm Punk- no. He is just a mid card type guy who is at the top for the sole reason that there is no other talent in the WWE except for John Cena and the Part time guys.

 

[dotty_84]

To answer your question, no. Could he be, of course he could. Everyone can give your Austin, HHH, Taker, The Rock, Cena examples and that's great but who did they have fueds without the strap around them? Equally impressive top tier guys think how quickly Punk could be made to look if he had guys on a roster like Hart, HBK, Angle without a belt involved it'd make him seem a lot more important. Who has Punk had fueds with and i mean legendary names? Taker? that didn't go well, that one match when CM Punk was on fire against HHH and that was barely a fued and that really pissed on CM Punks hot summer shoot promo. Cena is the only guy where Punk could show his real worth, give him a shot with an Austin, The Rock, he'd be shining like a diamond.

 

[Fansince1992]

People might flame me for this but i think his size lets him down, and this will never make him bigger than the WWE Championship. Punk would fit better for a title if WWE had different weight classes, so if the WWE Title was called the WWE Light Heavyweight Championship he could then be/become bigger than the title.

Another argument is if a star has amazing in-ring cababilities and amazing Natrual Charisma (like Punk has), is this enough to guarantee being bigger than the top title? People could say, what about Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels? These 2 are around the same size as Punk, I dont know they just look better physically defined than Punk is.

In a way what Kevin Nash ranted about a few months ago about "Larger than Life" superstars made some sense.

I think Punk could get to the stage of becoming "bigger than the WWE Title" but like others have mentioned, he needs multiple title reigns, and i think his size might prove to becoming a factor in him reaching this stage.

 

[zakkdreamz]

I would say no, not yet. He needs something more, though I don't know what that something means. More title reigns, maybe - but then, HBK held the belt what, 4 times? 5? And punk is a 4 time? 5 time? champion. Not that I'm saying that Punk is anywhere near HBK's caliber, and I suppose I just answered my own question, but IMO if it was about the number of title reigns, he and Edge both would have been there already.

So, assuming it's not about title reigns, what is it about? Let's say for funzies that he pins Cena clean in December, the Rock clean at the Rumble, and hell, even the Undertaker clean at WrestleMania. Perhaps 'Taker is a bit too much, but if he were to do some of those things, would he be there then?

We can say that it's just a matter of time before he hits that point, more title reigns till he hits that point, better feuds until he hits that point. Personally, I don't think that title reigns is what's going to do it. I think it's more about him going over cleanly in some more major feuds. Perhaps the long awaited Austin v Punk match would do it. I don't know - I think he should have been there by now, and am disappointed that he's not.

 

[wrestlingfan]

No, Punk isn't known to the mainstream like Cena is. He isn't a household name, that non-wrestling fans know, and that's something he may never be. This was the same guy a year ago, who even with the WWE Championship in the heat of the shoot promo, wasn't allowed to get into an arena, because the security guard thought he was a stowaway.

 

[Mebzone]

No and i dont think he ever will be...he is in the era of cena and will never get pushed like cena..The problem is the wwe caters to children now and cm punk is the cena for the older viewers. Maybe if the pg rating goes away before he retires but if not i dont see him ever being...HBK in my opinion is the greatest of all time but he never really was bigger than the title...only people i think are is Rock, HHH, Taker, Cena, Austin, and maybe Brock but idk yet. Cm punk just isnt even close to being on their level

 

[vampirek]

'To be the man, you have to beat the man' - Ric Flair

This quote comes relevant here, no Punk isn't above the title but he is the man at the moment. People can throw in The Rock, Austin, Taker etc but what do they all have in common.... they aren't active wrestlers and when they do have matches are big moments because of how rare they are. Cena is deemed above the title but when not in the title picture who are his feuds... thats right guys who are doing the odd match a year, built up as once in a lifetime... of course that will be bigger than the title because the title will still be there the next day. At the moment Punk is the man and nobody active is above the title, that will change when Lesnar, Rock and Undertaker turn up and the only reason they are above like mentioned is they'll be gone the next day.

 

[braveh]

In short no! Because he has never been a good face in the WWE.

He was great in ROH, he was a good heel for years in the WWE and he had the chance to be a great face last summer but he blew it.

In the end CM Punk didn't have the wrestling mind to be a great face, he didn't have the physique to be a great face, he didn't have the whole package.

Some people are going to come in here and say if Vince just kept him off tv longer, if Vince didn't undermine him bla bla......my answer is that great wrestling minds like Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan, they beat the odds. They get over even when every little detail doesn't fit their agenda. CM Punk isn't that. Unfortunately.

 

[DarkFlame]

To be totally honest, and it's painful coming from a Punk mark, I'd say no he isn't but there are few and far superstars who are! But, be totally honest, would you pay to see HHH v Funkasaurus or Austin v Jindar Mahal? No, of course you wouldn't!

People have mentioned Austin as being above the WWE Championship but, they forget that Austin v Scott Hall @ WM X-8 bombed and stunk like a rotting carcass, as did his involvement in the Lesnar v Goldberg match @ WM20!

These guys don't need the chamionship to be relevant, but they do need relevant opposition to draw! I mean who really thinks that Punk v Ryback is gonna be anything besides a stinkfest with interference from vince to HHH to Lesnar to Cena to My mum! Now, Punk v Orton, Punk v Ziggler, Punk v Bryan, I think any of those 3 scenarios, played out properly as a feud, could easily draw.

Anyway, random rant over, the answer is still unfortunately no, although he doesn't need the title to be relevant or a draw he isn't yet bigger than the title in the way HHH, Taker, Cena etc are! IMO

 

[braveh]

These guys don't need the chamionship to be relevant, but they do need relevant opposition to draw! I mean who really thinks that Punk v Ryback is gonna be anything besides a stinkfest with interference from vince to HHH to Lesnar to Cena to My mum! Now, Punk v Orton, Punk v Ziggler, Punk v Bryan, I think any of those 3 scenarios, played out properly as a feud, could easily draw.

I think it's going to be 10 times more relevant than Punk vs Bryan and 5 times more relevant than Jericho vs Punk.

As for the Jericho angle, they thought they could just do some kind of homage to the Hardy/Punk feud and get away with it but it just felt so old and tired.

The Punk/Bryan feud was every ROH mark's wet dream, it was what the IWC wanted....but nobody outside of a small circle of wrestling fans would give a crap about these two wrestlers.

Ryback vs Punk has so much potential. Ryback must win HIAC though!!!

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Punk certainly hasn't become bigger than the belt but I will say as a heel CM Punk does not need the belt to be an effective heel as from 09-11 I always felt CM Punk was far and away the best heel the WWE had. When Punk had his SES he had as much heat as Jericho did when he knocked out Shawn Michaels wife, its very rare you can see people garner that much heat on a consistent basis. He's not a bad face but his character screams heel, its just so easy to hate a character like that.

All in all as a heel I wouldn't say that CM Punk needs to be champion to be relevant, he's good enough to be relevant on his own. Just give him a good face to work with and Punk will be fine.