Has Hogan ever had to face a genuine shoot from an opponent?

[lowandmighty]

I don't mean a shoot interview, I mean during a match has anyone refused to cooperate with Hogan and turned it into a contest for personal pride?

Just like the infamous match between Koji Kitao and Earthquake.

I'd like to know if anyone has heard of such a thing involving Hogan so I can see how he would react and what his go to tactic actually is.

If nobody knows, feel free to share what you think would happen depending on who the opponent is.

 

[lil bitch Kid]

After Mania 3, no one would have dared. Hogan went into the original Andre match at 3 not knowing if Andre was going to go along with the slam and even the end. After that, Hulk knew that Vince had his back.

 

[Headman]

Working with Hogan was the biggest pay day a lot of these guys ever saw. I'm not sure why anyone in their right mind would ever shoot on him. With that said Hiro Matsuda supposively intentionally broke his leg during training.

 

[Kris Benwa]

Can we count HBK flopping all around and doing the shovel burying motion while he was coming down to the ring. Other than that I can't think of an occasion besides the ones mentioned And HBK still did the job anyway

 

[RicSpade]

I think and don't quote me on this, but Paul Orndorff and Hulk Hogan hated each other and it was evident by Orndorff in interviews and I think even on one of Hogans DVDS, so I wouldn't be surprised if just once he went rogue on Hogan, now if were talking Hogan before he was a star Hogan also stated when he wanted to learn wrestling, the first week they purposely broke a body part just to see if he'd come back and if he did they'd train him, so putting those into retrospective it makes it at least once

 

[berlinbrawler]

Can we count HBK flopping all around and doing the shovel burying motion while he was coming down to the ring. Other than that I can't think of an occasion besides the ones mentioned And HBK still did the job anyway

I actually think this is one of the biggest wrestling myths of the last 10 years. Michaels did not bury Hogan in that match (the buildup to it is another matter). Sure, he oversold the hell out of anything that happened in it, but considering that in Hogan matches (especially in his post 1990-career) realism is the very last thing anyone ever expects to see, it didn't hurt the Hulkster that he apparently beat up someone out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon. Hulk Hogan has been a ridiculous character and (especially) wrestler for ages. If you sell his offense in any other way, all you'll achieve is putting the audience to sleep. Compare that match to Hogan vs Orton a year or two later. Orton did not oversell. Damn, that match was TERRIBLE.

As a matter of fact I would go as far as to say it was one of Hulk Hogan's best matches ever, no thanks to the aging, immobile Hulkster. If Michaels' intent was indeed to bury Hulk, it backfired.

 

[Mustang Sally]

After Mania 3, no one would have dared. Hogan went into the original Andre match at 3 not knowing if Andre was going to go along with the slam and even the end.

Come to think of it, can you imagine either of these guys in a shoot fight? I can't.

They were both so ponderous and immobile that smaller, quicker people would destroy either one of them in a real fight. Hulk Hogan was a cartoon character; a fine showman, but a man who couldn't hit his target unless the guy was (illogically) standing right in front of him......which is what pro wrestling is all about, no? Real fighting doesn't work that way.

Come to think of it, Andre was exactly the same.

So, no......I don't think Hulk Hogan was ever in a genuine shoot. First of all, he'd be embarrassed in that type of encounter. Second, as has been mentioned already in this topic, a wrestler who dared to perform in that manner against Hogan would be standing on the unemployment line the next morning.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

Closest would probably be Jarrett laying down for Hogan in WCW and Hogan's reaction basically being "really? This is why this company is failing" and he pinned him and left. Russo then had a shoot on him afterwards.
Closest I can think of other than the Michaels match.

Though I'm sure the Iron Sheik probably did at some point or at least wanted to.

 

[Fabulous Freebirds]

I don't mean a shoot interview, I mean during a match has anyone refused to cooperate with Hogan and turned it into a contest for personal pride?

Just like the infamous match between Koji Kitao and Earthquake.

I'd like to know if anyone has heard of such a thing involving Hogan so I can see how he would react and what his go to tactic actually is.

If nobody knows, feel free to share what you think would happen depending on who the opponent is.

I think Big Van Vader in WCW "potato" Hogan in one of their matches on a WCW ppv. I remember reading that since Vader went into business and decided to stiff Hogan with punches that were legit, he got in trouble with management.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

Supposedly, some of his matches as a younger performer in Japan, there were individuals that were a point of concern, one rumor I remember hearing about was in regards to Tatsumi Fujinami. I mean, who really knows, wrestling is a circus act and these promoters and performers mindfuck you at any chance they have.

I have to say though, that anyone who was trained by someone like Hiro Matsuda has to have a tough streak in them, so while I'd never consider Hogan a "shooter", I think to make it in a business like the pro wrestling world for as long as he has, there should be a bit more credit thrown his way than just him being a mere showman.

Regardless, by the time Hogan became THE attraction in wrestling, only a foolhardy individual with no desire to earn money would have tried anything cute, in my opinion.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

I think and don't quote me on this, but Paul Orndorff and Hulk Hogan hated each other and it was evident by Orndorff in interviews and I think even on one of Hogans DVDS, so I wouldn't be surprised if just once he went rogue on Hogan, now if were talking Hogan before he was a star Hogan also stated when he wanted to learn wrestling, the first week they purposely broke a body part just to see if he'd come back and if he did they'd train him, so putting those into retrospective it makes it at least once

Not sure where you're getting your information... Orndorff didn't hate Hogan. Hogan put Orndorff on the map. Did they have a competitive rivalry? Yes. Orndorff felt since he was the superior worker, and had a similar muscular build that he should be in Hulk's spot... But he made a ton of money teaming with and working against Hulk. He never shot on Hogan, or even thought about it because he knew Hogan was top money. I suggest you go watch Orndorff's shoot interview with RFVideo(could be wrong on that), where he talks about Hogan being a money train that he never wanted to let go of.

Also Orndorff is considered by many to be one of the top 5 bad asses in any locker room, he didn't need to shoot because he had the respect of Hogan and the locker room already, and like I said, he was making a killing working with Hogan.

Also the whole leg-breaking thing during training is publicity, nothing more.

 

[ewright006]

Can we count HBK flopping all around and doing the shovel burying motion while he was coming down to the ring. Other than that I can't think of an occasion besides the ones mentioned And HBK still did the job anyway[/QUOTe

that match was hilarious!! and i felt really bad cuz we all know that hbk shouldve won that match BUT because its hogan for some reason wwe wanted to give him the "w'. well at least hbk made up for it in his promos lol he killed hogan in those promos! they were priceless.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

For years many claimed that the Warrior win was shoot, that he intentionally moved and f***ed up Hogan's back when he missed the legdrop... It was shit of course but at the time it did look somewhat plausible.

I think the nearest he got were Rick Rude and Bret Hart in the early 90's and he dodged those bullets. One of the things that stopped Hogan going into that feud with Hart was knowing Bret could shoot on him if needed to take that belt. Bret was a pro but you could easily imagine Hogan deciding mid match or at the start that he wasn't dropping the belt and it becoming another "screwjob" type deal. Hogan was smart enough in the main to either keep the tougher wrestlers in his circle or making money with him.

Guys like Tonga/Haku, Quake, Hennig, Bossman and Taker were always "looked after well" by Hogan in the back so they had no need to use their skills on him and as someone said about Orndorff, if they were on the money train they weren't likely to derail it out of ego. It was only guys like Rude who wouldn't play Hogan's game that "lost out" so to speak, had Rude gone into a match with Hogan and Hogan not wanted to play ball then he would have dismantled the Hulkster just for the insult of him saying he was "too small". So Hogan just point blank didn't work with him and when Rude's injury came just as he was entering WCW, that bullet was again dodged. Had those two met in WCW, it wouldn't have been pretty for Hogan... and you would very likely have seen Rude return to the E in a main event spot rather than Hogan risking it.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

Again, I love these threads that discuss what we "think we know" about the wrestling business. There's no shortage of moralists and "know it alls" that just can't fathom the idea of accepting what happens on screen is really what matters. What you hear about afterwards is just sheer conjecture and speculation.

Guys like Rick Rude, I loved to death as a kid. Hell, he got to end Warrior's first IC Title reign. Who knows what the future could have held had he stayed in the WWF? He might very well have ended one of Hogan's title reigns, I can't say that for sure, but none of us can either. I am going to say none of us really know who's truly the toughest in the arena of professional wrestling, of course some are going to appear tougher than others. But I'll say this much, they all have to have something to make it in the wrestling business.

Again, we're talking about the wrestling business here, misdirection and sensationalism are the order of the day for this stuff. Like I said in my previous statement shooting on Hogan and screwing up what was supposed to happen in the storylines was career suicide. Regardless of what we think we know about Hogan collectively the guy took on a HUGE role in the wrestling business of being its standard bearer, and through the good and the bad he had that label. Everything from the 80s boom to the steroid scandal rested heavily on his and Vince McMahon's shoulders.

Sure, Hogan had a great degree of clout, I think that's a no brainer, but again when it comes to these Hogan threads, people tend to leave out the authority of Vince McMahon in their arguments. Vince by my guess even in Hogan's heyday must have had a HUGE say in who Hogan would work with and who didn't. But then again I could be wrong, who knows...maybe Hogan always had Vince by the balls on every little thing. Give me a god damn break.

Hogan worked with several people that were never his "size", Piper, Flair, Savage, Hennig and so on. If Hogan was that scared of the technical masters he'd have never laced up a pair of boots, he'd have probably tried his hand in body building instead. Bottom line even if Hogan isn't this "shooter" type, I'd think that he'd still hold his own in a business that demands a physical wherewithal and bearing.

The biggest question I have for those who have that opinion on Hogan's ability in the ring, let me ask you something. Do you think any of you could do it? Again, let's try to remember what made us fans in the first place, it was all about the suspension of logic and belief. If you really give a shit about who can beat who in a real life fight, go watch boxing or MMA.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Once the roid trial was on all bets were off when it came to protecting Hogan, the vultures were circling and someone like Rude, roided or not felt their time had come in the WWF.

Everyone has a Tonga story but there are quite a few about men who should be "tough" fearing Rude. Nash in particular moved hotels rather than fight him after a backhanded comment. In Rude's case he had been an arm wrestler first, that scene was built on fighting and Rude knew how to do it. Like many he'd been a bouncer but one who was known to set up fights so he could "work out", even while he was wrestling. Someone like Hogan would have had people step in or protect him before any kind of major fight took place so the answer is more that who knows what Hogan could do... maybe Hogan could rip his head off or maybe he'd go down like Brooke.

The thread isn't about suspension of disbelief, we know Hogan could do that well... it's whether he could handle himself had Sheik tried to break his leg for Gagne's money and the like. Or if someone didn't care about the "professional suicide" as you put it... after all with notoriety that would bring, the NWA/WCW would have hired them in a heart beat...

 

[sdelfin]

I've never heard anything about Orndorff hating Hogan. He has always been quite complimentary toward Hogan in shoot interviews as far as I've seen.

As for Vader stiffing Hogan a bit, that's just what Vader always did, according to stories. Maybe Hogan didn't appreciate Vader's style, but that was just his style. Makes me wonder if Hansen worked stiff with Hogan that one time in Japan in 1990 or so as that was his style as well.

 

[Dedamn666]

Yes, Undertaker shooted on Hogan it says in his book. The tombstone on the chair jarred Hogans neck and he ended up in hospital

 

[THTRobtaylor]

That wasn't cos Taker was shooting... It was cos Flair screwed up with the placement of the chair so Taker actually planted Hogan's head on it, rather than between the legs of it so it would look good on camera but not injure him.

 

[Wald]

Why would anyone shoot on Hogan? He made everyone a tonne of money back in the day, to the point when the house show schedule got posted people were upset that they weren't on Hogan's tour.

I think people over-estimate wrestlers shooting on other guys like that, it simply doesn't happen outside of maybe a potato or two being thrown. But that's usually to wise up a guy that he's working stiff or slow. I mean look at the Hitman and HBK back in the day. Bret is even on record as saying that Michaels never took liberties with him and he didn't with Michaels either. I remember he saying that when he did the figure four around the ring post all Shawn would have had to do is not hold the Hitman's weight correctly and Bret would have been cracking his skull of the ground below. Michaels didn't though because wrestlers, even ones messed up like Shawn was at the time, are professionals at the end of the day. If a guy does something like purposefully injure another guy in a ring he'll never get booked again, no-one would work with him

 

[Kliq69]

Come to think of it, can you imagine either of these guys in a shoot fight? I can't.

They were both so ponderous and immobile that smaller, quicker people would destroy either one of them in a real fight. Hulk Hogan was a cartoon character; a fine showman, but a man who couldn't hit his target unless the guy was (illogically) standing right in front of him......which is what pro wrestling is all about, no? Real fighting doesn't work that way.

Come to think of it, Andre was exactly the same.

So, no......I don't think Hulk Hogan was ever in a genuine shoot. First of all, he'd be embarrassed in that type of encounter. Second, as has been mentioned already in this topic, a wrestler who dared to perform in that manner against Hogan would be standing on the unemployment line the next morning.

Bullshit on all accounts. It was well known Andre hurt people on a regular basis when they attempted any unsavory with him, or if he just plain didn't like them. Especially in Japan, Andre, like most of the wrestlers of that era, were treated as gods and they often abused that shit.

Hogan, on the other hand, might have had a very cartoon like style in the ring, but he wasn't trained in the modern ways that are done today. One of the first things that wrestlers got taught back then was how to prevent a guy from shooting on you and taking control of a match. The treatment of the trainees was merciless. If you thought Bob Holly was a hard ass, imagine him on some pcp and someone just killed his dog.

You ever heard of the Dungeon? Of Stu Hart? You think he was the only one like that? It was very much the norm for most wrestlers of that time period or before. The reason for this, of course, was that the "sport" was at the time regulated by athletic commissions and thus their results, payouts, etc had to be accurate and reported for each "bout". Normally this was set on purpose. Winner gets $1000 dollars (quite bit of money then) and the loser gets $100 (pretty good money too) where the $1000 was one wrestler's pay for the night and the $100 was the others. Well the promotions were required to payout the winners purse to the winner regardless of any previous agreement. So if a big name came to town with a large fee, guys would sometimes take a shot on him to try and take his purse. Other times it was to protect people from winning belts they weren't supposed to.

You also discount the size/strength factor. There is a reason every form of organized combat has weight classes. Size does matter. Only small people think it doesn't. When you're talking 6+ inches of height and over a hundred pounds in weight, it's not a fair fight. When you combine that with the fact that both of them were abnormally strong humans. Andre hurled 300+ lbs men around like they were Misterio. Andre's assistance or not, Hogan got him in the air. That's strength. That's them "working" and taking care of their opponents and not angry. Either one of those guys could have seriously injured just about any random person at any given time.

As far as anyone "shooting" on Hogan? Might have before his WWWF run, but not after. He had too much pull where ever he went for anyone to be stupid enough to try.

 

[Wald]

Actually didn't Doc Hendrix tell a story on one of the roundtable shows about Hogan showing up at a wrestling school in the 70s and asking to learn so the trainer basically broke his leg on the first day to see if he'd come back after the injury and still want to be a wrestler?

Hendrix was saying it as a putdown to anyone who thinks Hogan never had a love for the business

 

[THTRobtaylor]

We all know that story, it's one Hogan has dined out on his whole life... it may even be half true but there is no way it's as bad as told. Matsuda more likely damaged some muscles or a ligament rather than snapped his leg.

Just like it's a great story that Sheiky Baby was offered money by Gagne... it may well have happened and Sheik is probably so crazy that Hogan thought he might have done it. But he didn't do it so you'll never know either way but it helped Hogan and Vince's aura of the time and thus is now gospel.

A true "shoot" is the kind of Jacques Rougeau and Dynamite or Bruiser and Gonzalez. Those are shoots, where bad stuff goes down through genuine animosity. Hogan has never been a position where someone hated him enough to really say boo... just "can I get a programme with you Hulk?"

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

I'm not sure I ever bought the Hogan/Andre "Will he do the honors?" schtick that Hogan has presented. It sounded too contrived, to be honest...too kayfabe. In a venue of that size, at an event of that size, it had to be very clear that Hogan would have to go over Andre. I don't believe something like that would be left to chance, though with Andre long since gone, there's no one to dispute Hogan's version.

As for whether anyone else would ever shoot on Hogan, I think there's something to be said for the fact that Hogan was 6 foot 7 inches and nearly 300 pounds in his prime. At the point that someone tries to legitimately shoot on you, I don't think anything is off limits, and I wouldn't want someone that size trying to kick my ass. That's the case with Andre as well. Sure, a really confident and strong grappler could potentially shoot on him, but at what cost? It's not just what happens in the ring...it's what happens later on in the back as well, and a pissed off 7'4" Giant had to be a very VERY intimidating figure.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

When it comes to professional wrestling, I am of the school of thought it's all got the potential to be bullshit. Just because these urban legends and scuttlebutt we hear is by people who are all about putting on a "show" on a regular basis. Now, that's not discounting how tough these guys are, I mean I watched the match where Rick Rude held Hogan in place for a Canadian Backbreaker. So no one is discounting how tough a dude he was or any other legend in the business. But who knows what his demeanor was really like behind the scenes?

My opinion, if people are going to call Hogan's "leg break" during his early days of training into question, all other stories about other wrestling legends are subject to conjecture. And when I say all stories I mean just that....ALL. Like JoeyJoeJoe said, I think Hogan's telling of "not being sure" of Andre is complete and utter hype. In my opinion I always felt that statements like that were to sell retrospective DVDs and were very likely at the behest of Vince and WWE. If Andre were around today, to tell his side of things, he'd probably have gone along with that story too. Going back to shooting on Hogan though, well I want to say that regardless of it was Hogan or not, shooting on someone seems to be something that undermines the essence of one maintaining a livelihood in the wrestling business. People that would shoot on anyone in any match I am sure would be shortening their livelihood in the business. Therefore anyone in their right mind that would "shoot" would find themselves in the unemployment line quickly. I appreciate the OP's initiative in this thread but it's a topic that quickly denigrated into nothing but typical reliance on "hearsay".

Again, I risk the label of being a complete and utter Hogan apologist, so be it. It's just that anytime we take this stuff too seriously, I think we all have to dial a bit back and realize just what pro wrestling makes its reputation on, and that is to sell a story, and with the internet these days the lines between fantasy and reality are blurred even more than ever.

 

[thebarber]

People forget hogan was legitimately 6'4 and 280lbs in his prime and was trained by a legendary shooter in matsuda. Just because hulk didn't perform with a technical style. It is fair to say he could look after himself should the issue ever arose. In the 80s a lot of the talent weren't built or skilled like today's athletes. Hogan would have been fine