Hall of Fame or Not?

[BooCocky]

Tim Hardaway is not a HOF'er. He was a very good basketball player but I wouldnt call him great. He did record 5000 points and 2500 assist faster than anyone not named Oscar Robertson but that alone isn't enough for the bid.. Hardaway does have 5 All Star selections but I don't believe that is enough to get him into the Hall Of Fame. When I think of Tim Hardaway I don't think of him as a great player, I see him as an all around good player. If there was a Hall of Good he would be in it. But to put him with the elite is out of the question.

Next up: Dick Lebeau (As a player and a coordinator)

 

[Theo Mays]

Dick Lebeau should be a HOF. I think he gets in this year. He was a solid CB back in his day and he is one of the best coordinators in NFL history. He constantly puts up a top notch defense and his scheme is so complex that it picks apart an offense.

Next: Fred McGriff

 

[Big Sexy]

I think Dick LeBeau is definitely a hall of famer but I don't think he will get in. First of all you can't combine his accomplishments as a player and a coordinator. The way the NFL votes is based on one or the other. Seeing as no coordinator has ever been elected to the Hall of Fame that eliminates all of those accomplishments.

As a player however I believe LeBeau should still be in. He is tied for 8th all time on the interception list and as a player he started 171 straight games, which is a record for cornerbacks. He missed out on his first opportunity to make the Hall after his 25 years of eligibility were up, but he has now been selected as one of the senior members to appear on the ballot.

He still has a chance and he definitely deserves to get in, but I don't see him getting inducted, especially looking at some of the candidates that are up for consideration this year. Guys like Chris Carter, Shannon Sharpe, Richard Dent, Andre Reed, Emmit Smith, Tim Brown, Aeneas Williams, and even Jerry Rice (if his preseason stint in Denver isn't held against him).

Next up: Tim Brown

EDIT: Theo beat me to it so forget Tim Brown and stick with Mcgriff

 

[The Brain]

Fred McGriff is an interesting choice. I'm shocked that he only got 21% of the vote as I thought he had a real chance of getting in the hall. He was consistently great thoughout his career. You could mark him down for 30-35 home runs and 90-110 rbi every year. He ended up with 493 home runs and 1550 rbi for his career. Had he hit only seven more home runs I guarantee he would have received a lot more support in the voting. He is also a five time all star. That doesn't sound like much considering He played for 19 years, but the competition at 1B is always tough. Although we can't say for sure, McGriff is consdiered a clean player despite playing during the steroid era. When I think back of the great 1B over the last 25 years McGriff is definitely on the list. He is borderline, but I think he should be in the hall.

Big Sexy wanted to go with Tim Brown so I'll stick with him for next up.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Tim Brown is a tough choice for me. I never thought at any point during his career he was one of the top three wide receivers. However, he has amassed some pretty good stats when he retired. He retired second in receiving yards, third in receptions, and third in receiving touchdowns. He also had over three thousand punt return yards and a thousand kickoff return yards. I would slightly choose him as a hall of famer based on his accomplishments at the time of his retirement.

Next up: Steve Largent

 

[Big Sexy]

Ummmm. Steve Largent is already in the Hall of Fame. He was elected on his first ballot in 1995. When he retired Largent had the record for most receptions, receiving yards, and receiving touchdowns in a career. He was also a 7 time pro bowler and well deserving of his induction.

Next up: Richard Dent

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Ummmm. Steve Largent is already in the Hall of Fame. He was elected on his first ballot in 1995. When he retired Largent had the record for most receptions, receiving yards, and receiving touchdowns in a career. He was also a 7 time pro bowler and well deserving of his induction.

Next up: Richard Dent

My bad on that one.

Dent definitely deserves to go into the HOF. He was one of the lynchpins for the 1985 Bears defense in which he lead the NFL in sacks with 17. He had one of the greatest postseason games of all time against the Giants with 3.5 sacks. Finishing your career with 137.5 sacks is a hell of an achievement and was one of if not the best defensive ends of his time.

Next up: Trevor Hoffman

 

[Stormtrooper]

Next up: Trevor Hoffman

Major League Baseballs all time Saves leader (at least until Mariano Rivera outlasts him and passes him). To me there is no way he DOESN'T get in the Hall of Fame, even though I find him to be both great and overrated. Rarely does it seem that he comes through in the big games, but he is still one of the best of all time. All but 1 season between 1995 and now he has had at least 30 saves, 9 of those years over 40, and twice he led the league in Saves. It also cannot be forgotten that only 6 times his teams (San Diego or Milwaukee) over .500. That is a remarkable feat, having that many saves for bad teams, which is why I would put him in in a heartbeat.

Next up: Boomer Esiason

 

[NotoriousBigQ]

I don't think Boomer gets into the Hall. Just looking at the quarterbacks during his time like Elway, Montana, and Marino, I just don't see how Boomer was dominant enough during his time in the NFL to get into Canton. The completion percentage at 57% is definitely not helping his cause.

Next: Gary Sheffield

 

[scorpioking1026]

Gary Sheffield won't make it into the Hall. Granted he has been a beast during his career and he got over the 500 HR mark last year with the Mets but he is also connected with Bonds and steriods. Not only that but he also played nonchalent defense and he made the big mistake of calling Joe Torre a racist which everybody who votes for the hall will agree is total fabrication. Not every voter agrees that Torre is the best manager but they all do respect the man. He also said Jeter wasn't all the way black and also got into a minor fight with a Red Sox fan at Fenway.

Its my opinon that in order to make the Hall of Fame you have to be in the Top 5 at your position during your career. With the steriods era people get eliminated but just for arguments sake lets include them. Where does Sheff end up? My Top 5 OFs since 1988, the year Sheff joined the majors

1) Griffey - Really wish he never got hurt or else he would have broke Aaron's record
2) Bonds - Only cuz I'm including the steriods guys
3) Ichiro- He's a future HOFer
4) Manny Ramirez- again cuz im including the steriods guys although he always sucked in the OF and known just for his bat so
4b) Vlad Guerrero- What pitcher likes to see him at the plate
5) Larry Walker- Best Canadian player of all time

Also I'm not including guys like Puckett, Gywn, and Rickey Henderson since they are alreadin in the Hall. If I was the owner of a team and had to make my OF these would be the guys that would be on the top of my list. Sure Sheff might have more HRs then other guys but unlike the guys on my list he was never one to carry a team if need be. So no to Sheff. Then again I also don't think Dawson should be in either and that Alomar should be.

Next: Don Mattingly

 

[The Brain]

I'm going to have to say no to Don Mattingly. I don't think he will get in seeing as how he has not come close after several years on the ballot. I don't think he belongs. He had a nice career, but not a hall of fame career. He looked like a hall of famer after his first few years. He was incredible for about five or six years. Then the injuries hit and his skills began to deteriorate. Five years does not a hall of famer make. He was great at first but simply didn't have the longevity.

Next: Larry Walker

 

[Dr. Stinger A. Zoidberg]

I'm going to say yes to Larry Walker. He is a player that I feel is overlooked. I mean the guy hit 49 homeruns in 1997 with 130 RBI. Plus, add in a .313 career batting average, and you're looking at a top-tier player. Now, he is a 5 time allstar, and has an MVP award from 1997. Yeah, you can make the argument that he wasnt great in the postseason, but neither is A-Rod, and hes going in one day. Over 17 seasons in the outfield and at 1st and 2nd base, he made a career 48 errors. Thats averaging about 3 a year. I think Walker goes in.

Next up: Roger Clemens

 

[LSN80]

Roger Clemens should be a first ballot Hall of Famer. the man has won 7 CY Youngs I believe, and holds the record for such. How could a writer in their right mind not vote him just based upon this? I can't think of a VIABLE reason. But there's much more.

Clemens is one of 4 men to record over 4000 strikeouts in his career. He has over 350 wins in his career. People may argue that that's because he had such a long career that inflated his stats, but teams didnt have to sign him if he wasn't still a valuable pitcher. In fact, he seemingly improved with age. Most pitchers decline, He had the lowest WHIP and ERA in the last years of his career.

I know the guy was a diva(no pun intended) and insisted on all kinds of outlandish treatment that was rediculous. He also was surrounded in controversy, with him being named by several sources, including the Mitchell report, for using steroids. But Clemens has never admitted it, and no DEFINITIVE proof has been shown that he did. Id bet he did, but that's not here or there. Noone has been able to prove it, and this is still a country where one is innocent until proven guilty. So he should be a first ballad Hall of Famer, despite being a world class jackass.

Let's go next with the home run king, Barry Bonds.

 

[Dr. Stinger A. Zoidberg]

To be quite honest I dont think Bonds should be in the HOF. Yeah he is the all time leader in Home runs but, Many of those were hit when he was being investigated for Perjury. Also, the *supposed* use of steroids and HGH comes into play as well. If you take a Barry Bond baseball card from each year he played in the majors and line them up side to side, you will see that he gets significantly bigger each year.

From a baseball standpoint, all the guy could do was hit. He was barely able to run, and was a terrible outfielder. He didnt have that good of an arm. He was pretty much a poor man's Manny Ramirez. Also, lets not forget that some people say he wasnt exactly a pleasure to be around in the locker room.

So I say, Bonds does not go into the Hall.

 

[The People's Peep]

After a talk in the sports bar, I have decided to revive this thread. I brought up whether or not John Smoltz will make it to the hall. I think that he will. It most likely wont happen on his first year on the ballot, but he will eventually get in. It's not every day that you see someone excel as a starting pitcher and a closer.

Not only was he good at both positions, he was one of the bests around no matter what position he was playing. As a starter, he kept his ERA around 3.00 or lower. He won 15 games 6 times and even won 24 in 1996. As a closer, he has 154 saves in only 4 years as a closer.

Its obvious that he was better as a starter. But he still has over 150 saves to go along with over 200 wins. He's in for me.

 

[The Brain]

I think Smoltz is a sure thing. The only reason he is overlooked is because he lived in the shadow of Tom Glavine who lived in the shadow of Greg Maddux. Smoltz was an excellent starter before ever going to the pen. Then he was an excellent closer. After that he became an excellent starter again. If he never moved to the pen he'd have close to 300 wins. The 154 saves makes up for his low, but still very good, win total. He also has over 3000 strikeouts. His 3.33 ERA is impressive considering he pitched during a hitter dominant era. Add all that to his amazing post season numbers and I'd say Smoltz is a lock.

Originally in this thread the last poster was supposed to give another player to discuss. Anyone can come on here and comment on a previous player too, but I'll throw another name out for discussion.

Next up, Juan Gonzalez

 

[Buffalo Dave]

I'm gonna have to say no to Juan Gonzalez. What is gonna hurt him is that he wasn't durable. In the 17 years he played he only had 6 years with a 140 or more games. He only had 3 all star appearances. Did have 2 MVP's in 96 and 98, but a lot of people don't feel he was the right choice both years. Although he put up 1400 RBI's and 434 HR's he didn't even have 2000 hits. Gonzo's feilding wasn't all that great either.

Next - Randall Cunningham

 

[Big Sexy]

I'm going to say no on Randall Cunningham. I'm personally a fan and I would put him in after a while but I don't think he's getting in. He was the first quarterback that could win a game with his arm and his feet. In his prime he was getting 500-700 yards rushing a season including one season with close to 1,000 yards. His passing number were also solid. He threw just short of 30,000 yards and his passing numbers aren't that much worse then Hall of Famer Jim Kelly's and they played around the same time.

He had a good record as a starter but he never won or even went to a Super Bowl. He came close as the 35 year old starter for the 15-1 Vikings team in 1998 but Gary Anderson fucked that up. Still, his passing numbers combined with his rushing numbers and his influence on the game, to me should be enough. However, I don't think he gets in.

Next: Ben Wallace

 

[PsychoBlack]

With Ben Wallace i'd have to say yes just because he is one of the greatest defensive payers that basket ball has ever seen. Hes up there with the likes of Rodman and Payton. I know he didn't provide much on the offensive side of the ball but he didn't need to his job was to rebound and play defense and he did just that

Next:Curtis Martin

 

[The People's Peep]

Curtis Martin was already done. Becker made his case already and I agree with him. He is definitely a Hall of Famer. He is in the top 10, if not the top 5, in many rushing categories such as 4th in rushing yards and 7th in yards from scrimmage. He also put up over 1000 yards in every year of his career except the last one.

So yes. He is probably one of the 20 best backs the game has seen and will definitely make it to Canton.

Next up: Rafael Palmeiro

 

[The Brain]

Rafael Palmeiro should definitely be a hall of famer. He is one of only four men to have 500 home runs and 3000 hits. The others are Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, and Eddie Murray. That’s some pretty good company. Typically if someone has either 500 home runs or 3000 hits they’re a lock. Palmeiro has both. He also ranks 15th in career RBI with 1835. I always felt he was underrated during his career.

While Palmeiro should get in the hall of fame next year, I don’t think he will. A lot of players who played during the steroid era are going to be left out for a while. Mark McGwire hasn’t come close in four years on the ballot. He never tested positive. Palmeiro did. I hope Palmeiro will eventually get in, but I think it’s going to take a while.

Next up: Barry Larkin. He didn’t make it last year, but it was only his first year on the ballot. Should he get in? Will he eventually get in?

 

[PsychoBlack]

Barry Larkin is a yes for me. His numbers at the plate might not be there but the guy was a leader and an excellent fielder. He also has the accolades having 12 all star selections 9 silver slugger's 3 gold gloves as well as the 1995 mvp award.

Next: Marshall Faulk

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

Marshall Faulk should be in, and this is without my hometown bias to the guy. He is a case of not being a pure running back though that might turn a few off on him. 12,279 rushing yards in his career isn't a stand out stat but 19,154 yards from scrimmage is. He gets in if the voters appreciate the versatility of him and don't take into account the pure rushing, while he had a few good years around 1,300 yards it doesn't stand out. A Superbowl ring doesn't hurt his chances either.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FaulMa00.htm

Next is Todd Helton.

 

[The Brain]

I was hoping someone else would answer this because I’m really not sure about Helton. His first seven years were unbelievable. He was as good as anybody and it looked like he was on his way to being a lock for the hall. Then in 2005 his power numbers dropped significantly (a first round fantasy bust for me that year). He still has a .326 career average. I’m afraid the longer he plays the less likely it may be that he gets in. His power numbers aren’t going to increase much and his lifetime batting average is more likely to go down than up. In my hall of fame thread I said he would get in, but I also said he was a borderline choice. His career numbers are similar to Dale Murphy (except for the batting average) and Murphy has not come close to getting in. He also reminds me a bit of Don Mattingly (although I think Helton is better) who started off his career great, but slowed down after about six years. Mattingly has not come close to getting in either. Helton is going to need to keep his career batting average up to get in. He’s only hitting .240 this year and if that career average drops below .300 he’s not going to make it. Even though I said yes in an earlier thread I think I’m going to change my mind and say no now. I only say that because it looks like his average will go down. If he can keep it at least where it is now I’ll say yes. I could see him being like Andre Dawson and getting in after several years on the ballot.

Next up: Dennis Rodman

 

[Theo Mays]

There is no doubt that Rodman was an insane defender and one of the greatest characters in the history of the NBA, however I just don't think he had a Hall of Fame career. The guy was no doubt a great player, but I'm not sure I could classify him as a Hall of Famer. He was just one of those guys that you either loved having on your team or hated with all you had. He was never much of a scorer, but the guy was one of the best rebounders to lace up some shoes. Not enough to get him in though.

Next up: Ricky Watters