ESPN's Ultimate Rankings

[IrishCanadian25]

For those who have never seen them, ESPN does this really facinating peice each year on all North American pro sports franchises in the 4 major sports: Major League Baseball, the National Football League, the National Hockey League, and the National Basketball Association. 122 teams in all were ranked, and the criteria they were ranked on include: bang for the buck, fan relations, ownership, affordability, stadium experience, players, coaching, title track.

The rankings can be seen here: http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/teamrankings

I will discuss the top 3 and the bottom three, and then invite everyone to answer some questions and let the debate rage on.

The Top 3

#1 - New Orleans Saints- The former 'Aints and again the Saints, and went from last years rank #52 all the way up to #1. Being the reigning super Bowl Champion with Drew Brees as QB helps. Their coach, Sean Payton, placed the Saints #2 in the coaching criterion (behind Mike Scocia of the Angels) and ranked tied for #3 in Title Track (behind the Phillies and Yankees).

#2 - Orlando Magic- Dwight Howard's near-championship performance last year catapulted this franchise, but the #1 "bang for the buck" in pro sports is really what's remarkable about the Magic. Despite a subpar stadium experience (ranked #96), the relatively inexpensive cost and high value of the team from an entertainment perspective really evens that out.

#3 - Los Angeles Angels- #1 in coaching AND affordability, the Angels cozy southern California home is shockingly cheap in an otherwise overpriced suburban area of Anaheim. Their worst category was ownership, which was still ranked 35th.

The Bottom 3

#120 - Washington Wizards- They rank dead last in fan relations. They rank 2nd to last in players (I guess teammates turning guns on one another after a card game dispute taints this team a bit?). All reasons why the Wizards - now featuring John Wall - dropped 20 slots to be one of the 3 worst franchises in North American sports.

#121 - Toronto Maple Leafs- It's depressing when such a storied franchise hits the skids so bad for so long. Dead last in bang for the buck and affordability, this once proud original 6 team isn't even sniffing the playoffs anytime soon. Mats Sundin and Curtis Joseph are NOT walking through that door!

#122 - Los Angeles Clippers- What a shock. They are SO cursed, SO desolate. They were never really in the LaBron sweepstakes, despite being "in" the LaBron James sweepstakes. It's hard enough being in Kobe and the Lakers' shadow, but watching your highly touted #1 draft pick lose his season to injury before a game? That's just awful. That's just the Clippers.


Discussion questions: (you don't have to answer them all, just pick and choose

1. Who is ranked too high? Too low? Any surprises?

2. Where are your favorite teams ranked? Do you think that's accurate?

3. Where are your rival teams ranked? Are you happy about that?

4. Which franchises are on the way up? On the way down?

Feel free to add any additional thought you may have.

 

[Big Sexy]

The biggest gripe I have is the Detroit Pistons at 93. They should be ranked much higher especially in stadium and fan relations. The Palace is one of if not the nicest area in the NBA and the fans love it there. The relationship between the fans and the team is very good as well. Affordability should also be higher as tickets for a Pistons game are not expensive at all. They have gone up somewhat from previous years but not that much.

Ownership should be higher as well. If this covers the entire year then Bill Davidson was one of the best owners in sports. Ownership now isn't that good because of his death but before that they could easily be top ten in that category. The team has obviously had a couple off years but there is no way they should be behind teams like the Blue Jays, Royals, Lightning, Jaguars, etc...

 

[IrishCanadian25]

The Palace is one of if not the nicest arena in the NBA and the fans love it there.

It's still in Detroit, though, no? I mean, no offense, but...

Look at the Detroit Red Wings. They are #2 in the NHL and #8 overall. But in stadium, they are #88. Joe Louis Arena is PACKED with hockey history (much like the Palace) but it's antiquated and...again...in Detroit.

The Prudential Center is in Newark, but it's the most state of the art hockey arena possibly in the NHL.

Affordability should also be higher as tickets for a Pistons game are not expensive at all. They have gone up somewhat from previous years but not that much.

Yes - Pistons tickets have gone up the last few years as the Detroit economy has tanked. I don't think it's just a flat figure of "have the prices gone up or down?" but rather a look relative to the economy. Several pro sports teams have responded to the flagging economy by lowering ticket priced. Arguably, other than Pittsburgh and Cleveland, probably no other city has seen the economic turmoil that Detroit has. What right do they have to raise prices?

Ownership should be higher as well. If this covers the entire year then Bill Davidson was one of the best owners in sports. Ownership now isn't that good because of his death but before that they could easily be top ten in that category.

Last year, ownership ranked #81. Overall last year, they were #64.

Doesn't the fact that with Davidson's death, the ownership being thrown into a state of flux creates a level of turmoil detrimental to the franchise? You don't think George Steinbrenner's retirement affected the Yankees a bit?

The team has obviously had a couple off years but there is no way they should be behind teams like the Blue Jays, Royals, Lightning, Jaguars, etc...

The Blue Jays are dirt cheap and play in a very nice stadium.

The Royals have one of the nicest stadiums in all sports, and tickets are dirt cheap. Because the team sucks.

The Lightning won a title just a few years back and have a team made up of some of the most exciting forwards in the game. Tickets are still a bargain there.

 

[Big Sexy]

It's still in Detroit, though, no? I mean, no offense, but...

Look at the Detroit Red Wings. They are #2 in the NHL and #8 overall. But in stadium, they are #88. Joe Louis Arena is PACKED with hockey history (much like the Palace) but it's antiquated and...again...in Detroit.

The Prudential Center is in Newark, but it's the most state of the art hockey arena possibly in the NHL.

No, the Pistons play at the Palace of Auburn Hills in Auburn Hills, Michigan. It's actually near some fairly wealthy cities and a good 30 minutes away from Detroit.

Yes - Pistons tickets have gone up the last few years as the Detroit economy has tanked. I don't think it's just a flat figure of "have the prices gone up or down?" but rather a look relative to the economy. Several pro sports teams have responded to the flagging economy by lowering ticket priced. Arguably, other than Pittsburgh and Cleveland, probably no other city has seen the economic turmoil that Detroit has. What right do they have to raise prices?

Prices for singular games have slightly gone up but they now have more ticket packages that have come for a lot cheaper. Detroit's economy is worse then probably any other city and a slight raise in prices was inevitable especially with the team not doing as well.

Last year, ownership ranked #81. Overall last year, they were #64.

Doesn't the fact that with Davidson's death, the ownership being thrown into a state of flux creates a level of turmoil detrimental to the franchise? You don't think George Steinbrenner's retirement affected the Yankees a bit?

Davidson's death should knock them down but even last year they were ranked way too low in that category. If the ranking is based just off his death and the fact that ownership is changing it makes sense but if this is based off the whole year they should be a little higher.

The Blue Jays are dirt cheap and play in a very nice stadium.

The Royals have one of the nicest stadiums in all sports, and tickets are dirt cheap. Because the team sucks.

The Lightning won a title just a few years back and have a team made up of some of the most exciting forwards in the game. Tickets are still a bargain there.

The Pistons are still a much better franchise. Plus even though they have slightly raised ticket prices, the Pistons price is still very low. It's not like they are up there with the Lakers and Knicks in terms of cost.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Prices for singular games have slightly gone up but they now have more ticket packages that have come for a lot cheaper. Detroit's economy is worse then probably any other city and a slight raise in prices was inevitable especially with the team not doing as well.

Why was it inevitable?

Just prior to the 2009 season, the San Francisco Giants, Seattle Mariners and Cincinnati Reds froze the cost of tickets for 2009. The Washington Nationals, Oakland Athletics and San Diego Padres lowered tickets by as much as 25 percent.

Also, the Detroit Lions lowered their prices last year. The only other NFL team to do that were the Jaguars. 18 NFL teams raised prices.

Plus even though they have slightly raised ticket prices, the Pistons price is still very low. It's not like they are up there with the Lakers and Knicks in terms of cost.

That's why the Knicks ranked #121 in Affordability (2nd to last) and the Lakers ranked #115. Incidentally, both L.A. and N.Y. are larger and more affluent urban areas than Michigan.

 

[People's Champ]

I have to say I'm pretty happy with the Sharks ranked 12th on this list. The ownership consistantly keeps trying to put out the best team on the ice. They make moves with winning in mind. Prices are resonable, and I love going to HP to watch games. We have an incredible fan base and I just think this was a solid position to be in.

 

[Big Sexy]

Why was it inevitable?

Just prior to the 2009 season, the San Francisco Giants, Seattle Mariners and Cincinnati Reds froze the cost of tickets for 2009. The Washington Nationals, Oakland Athletics and San Diego Padres lowered tickets by as much as 25 percent.

Also, the Detroit Lions lowered their prices last year. The only other NFL team to do that were the Jaguars. 18 NFL teams raised prices.

It was inevitable because the Pistons were losing money. Some teams can lower ticket prices and get larger crowds because of it. The Pistons weren't able to do that so the next step is to slightly raise prices. When the team was going to the conference finals every year they sold out for something ridiculous like 259 straight home games. Those crowds weren't coming anymore when they started losing. And again, it's not like they raised prices a ton it was very marginal increase and also like I said before there are now more ticket packages that can be purchased for cheaper then previous years. The organization is making up for the slighlty higher ticket prices in other areas.

That's why the Knicks ranked #121 in Affordability (2nd to last) and the Lakers ranked #115. Incidentally, both L.A. and N.Y. are larger and more affluent urban areas than Michigan.

The Pistons are still below the league average in ticket prices which is very good for the area they are in.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

It was inevitable because the Pistons were losing money.

Right. So because they were bleeding out money, they whacked the unemployed fan base. Good point - they absolutely should be higher on the list.

When the team was going to the conference finals every year they sold out for something ridiculous like 259 straight home games.

They were probably higher up on the list of best franchises at the time. Call it a hunch.

Those crowds weren't coming anymore when they started losing.

Or, they started losing and those crowds didn't come anymore.

And again, it's not like they raised prices a ton it was very marginal increase

Inflicted on the urban region in the US with the highest unemployment rate.

and also like I said before there are now more ticket packages that can be purchased for cheaper then previous years. The organization is making up for the slighlty higher ticket prices in other areas.

Yes, by saying "we'll take the price hike away when you buy more tickets you can't afford."

The Pistons are still below the league average in ticket prices which is very good for the area they are in.

The Knicks and Lakers, as you astutely pointed out, skew that average significantly. (The Nets and their $.98 cheap seat nights probably do too...) But you should look at the median, not the mean. Incidentally, I found the 2007 "Fan Cost Index." Pistons were just a hair HIGHER than the NBA Avg.

'07 NBA FAN COST INDEX (FCI)

Lakers $453.95
Knicks $394.52
Celtics $358.72
Mavericks $339.23
Heat $339.20
Bulls $335.00
Nets $328.90
Raptors* $320.47
Kings $318.30
Cavaliers $317.90
Clippers $317.00
Spurs $303.79
Suns $302.04
Pistons $282.00
NBA AVG. $281.90
Nuggets $271.16
Rockets $270.94
76ers $269.48
Bucks $268.56
Trail Blazers $251.86
Pacers $250.57
Hawks $244.48
Jazz $235.75
T'Wolves $231.38
Magic $229.82
Sonics $229.50
Grizzlies $228.28
Warriors $206.52
Bobcats $196.90
Wizards $194.56
Hornets $182.30
​

The words you're searching for are "you're right daddy, the Pistons deserve to be low on the list."

Thank you.

 

[Big Sexy]

Right. So because they were bleeding out money, they whacked the unemployed fan base. Good point - they absolutely should be higher on the list.



They were probably higher up on the list of best franchises at the time. Call it a hunch.



Or, they started losing and those crowds didn't come anymore.



Inflicted on the urban region in the US with the highest unemployment rate.



Yes, by saying "we'll take the price hike away when you buy more tickets you can't afford."

The Pistons slightly raise prices for one season and you shit on them for it? The season ticket packages like I said were actually lowered by 10% so the loyal fans getting season tickets could be helped out. Also the arena isn't in Detorit and is actually around some of the wealthier cities in Michigan so the price being raised isn't just a fuck you to the jobless in the state. The cheap seats are still very affordable and many tickets are still given away to kids and their families that are struggling. It's the more expensive seats that got the rise in prices.

I am a sports management major and trust me I know all about the ticket price freezing, the lowering of costs, and the raise of costs from different franchises in all of the major sports leagues. A sports business journal I apply to had an entire issue dedicated to all of it and what the different teams are doing. Different franchises handle it different ways. This past year was tough for the economy and there were many approaches that teams tried out. Some worked and some didn't.

The words you're searching for are "you're right daddy, the Pistons deserve to be low on the list."

No, the words I'm searching for are "goddamn you are a condescending ass hole." Trust me I know you see me as an uninformed Detroit fan spouting out bullshit but my knowledge on this subject is far greater then you give me credit for. Shit isn't just as simple as "well the economies bad so all ticket prices should be lowered to make people happy." Like I said the cheap seats are still cheap and there are free tickets given away. Not every type of ticket for a game needs to be lowered in price. There is nothing wrong with slightly hiking up the price of the better seats that the people affected by the economy wouldn't be getting anyway. The Pistons are a very respectable franchise and treat their fans with that respect but they can't just have dirt cheap prices because when the team struggles people don't want to see them as much.

Thank you.

No, thank you for making an ass of yourself. Now go disappear for another month from the sports section and then come back with two more threads that you make so it seems like you are doing your job.

 

[Platypus Palsy]

The only complaint I have with the Titans is the fact that they're 72 in Stadium Experience. That's just way too low. The fans are always loud and rowdy and the Arena is pretty nice looking since it's relatively new. Granted, I can't think of any of these "game day promotions", but the atmosphere is always lively and great.

I don't care about hockey, so I can't say anything on the subject of the Predators. I can't think of more than 5 fans of the Predators that I know anyway, so I think those stats are probably too high.

 

[BooCocky]

The Pens ranked higher than the Steelers? That's truly laughable. They've relevant for like 4 years. The Steelers have been relevant for going on 40 years now. Heinz field might not be the best looking field but nothing there is too expensive, outside the cost of Iron Shitty beer.

And a 98 fan relationship ranking? That's funny. But im not even going to get into that. Another thing that cracks me up is the likability thing. Which is funny as hell. There are Steelers fans every where. No matter where they go you will find Steelers fans in the stadium. And don't tell me they travel well? No one can afford that shit. For crying out loud we have Steelers bars in several states and we aren't liked? This ranking system is shit. The Steelers are a high classed organization who puts the best team on the field to win. Even during an economic struggle. We've sold out every game since 1972, our ownership must be doing something. The Steelers should be higher ranked. This is another person at ESPN who is drinking the haterade.

 

[Stormtrooper]

OK, having just looked at this for the first time this year, I am confused with a couple of the Yankees ratings.

1. No disrespect to the Phillies, but how in the blue hell are the Phillies ranked higher in Title Track record then the Yankees. Last time I check the Yankees beat the Phillies, and it's not like the Yanks stopped improving their team or anything. Can the Phillies be expected to win longer then the Yankees? No, yet they are ranked higher.

2. The "new" ownership (Hal Steinbrenner) has been officially in place since after the 2008 season. The first things he did as an owner was sign CC Sabathia, AJ Burnett, and Mark Texiera to huge contracts. The "new" owner basically have combined the willingness to spend of George Steinbrenner, without the huge, monstrous ego and evil characteristics of George Steinbrenner. I can't see 15 teams having better ownership. For example, the Phillies have more loyal ownership, yet they are the ones who traded their top pitcher from last season, who was the sole reason they stood a chance in the World Series (Cliff Lee). Yep, that's not bias against New York...

3. Apparently the Yankees also don't have players that give the best effort, or have likable players. How can people even say that the reigning world champions don't have the best effort? I can understand people not liking A-Rod, but that's one player, and a bunch of the other teams have players not well liked on it either.