Eric Bischoff's War Against the "10 Percenters"; Calls the IWC "Irrelevant"

When have I claimed I am not a part of it? Constantly in our everyday life we take the majority opinion of any group that isn't homogenous and discuss it as such. It isn't strictly correct but it is usually pretty easy to tell which characteristic people are actually discussing. When I say the IWC is excessively negative then it is pretty clear what that means. It doesn't mean everyone is the same or that I am not a part of the IWC. If you are not excessively negative then you should not think I am referring to you. If I make an exaggerated insult to the group in general then it is likely the case that on a smaller level that I do think it applies everyone including myself or sometimes it is just to make light of the stereotype in general.

If you look closely at this situation Bischoff is doing the same thing. Everything that happens in the IWC is irrelevant. However, he isn't really chastising the entire IWC. Just those that loudly claim that what they want is all that matters in spite of other more quantitative and informed measures. This is especially stupid when their friend agrees with them and then they both start repeating whatever they want even louder.
It's like bashing Asians when you're talking about Japanese. You're painting over a large segment of the population with a brush meant for a small area, and meanwhile people in China, Indonesia and Pakistan are going "WTF???"

The way you refer to "the IWC" often gives the impression that you are talking about everyone on the internet except for yourself. You can clear up a lot of this confusion by using different terms; there is no reason to refer to everyone on the internet who talks about wrestling when you really mean to talk about people who are being excessively negative.
 
There's a couple things about o'le EB's post...

#1: Yes the IWC may make up a smaller portion of wrestling fans (I have no idea where he gets 10% from, I think he pulled that number out of his ass) but it makes up about 70-80% of TNA's fans.

#2: The ratings for TNA are nowhere near good enough to make an argument like "the ratings speak for themselves." Last time I checked TNA wasn't even beating Outsourced.

#3: A good amount of the ratings TNA has ARE THE PEOPLE COMPLAINING!!! If people here learned to stop watching when they don't like what's going on, maybe people like Eric Bischoff and Vince McMahon would start actually listening to you instead of taking your unwavering support as an idication that you love what they're doing.
 
Who exactly does Bischoff think is his audience if not the IWC smarks? Does he think that TNA's fanbase is majorly casual fans in the old sense? If so, he's delusional. Casual wrestling fans don't watch TNA, they watch the WWE because they don't keep tabs on the genre (hence: casual) and most likely have no clue that TNA even exists. If he seriously thinks that his fanbase isn't made up of that same IWC he blasts, than he's going to fail miserably during the rest of his tenure with TNA if he once again can't recognize his own audience's demographics.

For the WWE sure, the "IWC opinion" doesn't matter because they actually DO have millions of non-obsessive/smarky casual fans they rely on, but TNA most definitely does not have that. Fuck look at the fans reactions to their stars over the years, the young and talented guys that became IWC heros (AJ Styles, MCMG, Samoa Joe) were ALWAYS out-popping the "established names" like Kevin Nash and Jeff Jarrett.

TNA desperately needs to cut ties with this jokester, he's done nothing positive for the company at all. Atleast Hogan has helped somewhat in the PR department.
 
This is typical Bischoff making a bunch of noise so people will pay attention to him, nothing more. He knows by talking shit its gonna draw attention to him and anything his name is on (although I dont know what kind of positive attention this would bring).
 
He's right, we're never happy and always disagree on everything. We want the whole damn roster pushed when there isn't enough TV time to do so. I feel the exact same way towards internet fans, we're all idiots.
 
I was saying challenging EB as you literally challenging his decisions. I never said I agreed with him for attacking OUR community. I was simply agreeing with him that our small percentage really doesn't matter in the overall ratings and such. I also don't mind if you disagree just to disagree. That's what we are here for. That being said regardless of whether he was just being a doushe bag what he said has validity. However, with TNA getting worse ratings than tough enough I don't know how smart it is to bash ANY fans when you are only pulling 1.2's.


Bingo! And that's why what he did wasn't a good business decision. See, TNA doesn't have the luxury of making mental mistakes or big errors in judgement. Each step for them, if we're to believe how serious they are about being a player in this market, must be a calculated one that ends in TNA gaining market share, not alienating a certain percentage of it.

Personally I think his comments speak more to his own frustrations at how ineffectual his leadership, input, and efforts in improving the product have truly been. Now he may not read the criticisms on line, but his mere mention of the 10% proves he knows about those criticisms. Otherwise, there'd be no reason for his comment in the first place. So not only does he know about them, but it bothered him so much that he felt the need to address the issue publicly. Not a good sign if I'm paying his salary that he's swinging at pitches in the dirt while trying to hit a home run for TNA Wrestling.

My suggestion to him would be (not that he's not already doing this in some fashion) to put his nose to the grindstone, don't address these kinds of issues, and instead make the TNA product better.
 
It just goes to show how out of touch E.B is. This isn't 1995, when the internet was populated by a small group of geeks and recluses. It's 2011; everyone is on the internet. And everyone is using the internet to research and discuss things that they are interested in. Not all wrestling fans on the internet necessarily pass through wrestlezone forums or any other specific site. But I guarantee you that the vast majority of wresting fans in North America have actively sought out information or discussion about wrestling online through either twitter, facebook, forums, wikipedia, etc etc. It's just improbable that they haven't.

That's why I've never believed in the concept of an "IWC". Because there is no community. Even using these forums as a sample group, there's barely any stability in membership or consensus of opinion. Sure, lots of older fans from the Attitude era dislike John Cena, but there are still plenty of younger fans who love him. And plenty of neutral fans who dislike him but begrudgingly respect him and accept his role. And yes, plenty of people here like Christian. But plenty of others don't feel he belongs in the main event. This disagreement occurs in every single topic. Hell, even in this one people can't even agree on what the IWC even IS. Another implication of a "community" is some sort of stability in membership. And while we have regular posters, how many new members do we have here every day? How many posters come and go on an irregular basis? And what connection do posters have with each other outside of occasionally expressing their opinions on these forums? None. There is simply no common ground between the so-called "IWC" other than liking pro-wrestling, and using the internet. And the latter condition is pretty much a given for the former (and everyone else in a modern country).

In short, there is no IWC. Because what we get online isn't a community; rather it's a dynamic collection of random samples coming from various demographics. Fans on these forums come from pretty much all walks of life, and all age groups. And everyone of them has their own individual likes and dislikes. "IWC" is therefore just a term used by some of these individuals to marginalize and dismiss other wrestling fans who disagree with them. The delusion (or indulgence) that there is an "IWC" creates the impression that it's an overwhelmingly negative community, because all of the individual instances of criticism become lumped together and attributed to a group, rather than to individual opinions.

E.B is making this same mistake. And it's a foolish one to make, because despite all of the effort and resources that have gone into improving TNA, it's position remains relatively unchanged. Alienating any of it's fans (let alone potentially alienating ALL of them) just for the sake of lashing back against perceived critics is reckless. And what's the payoff, exactly? Even if there were an "IWC" and it accounted for just 10% of his viewers, what's the business sense in attacking that percentage and discouraging them from watching his product? This just seems like an immature tantrum. I would expect E.B to have more sense than to get down in the dirt and lash out like this.
 
It just goes to show how out of touch E.B is. This isn't 1995, when the internet was populated by a small group of geeks and recluses. It's 2011; everyone is on the internet. And everyone is using the internet to research and discuss things that they are interested in. Not all wrestling fans on the internet necessarily pass through wrestlezone forums or any other specific site. But I guarantee you that the vast majority of wresting fans in North America have actively sought out information or discussion about wrestling online through either twitter, facebook, forums, wikipedia, etc etc. It's just improbable that they haven't.

That's why I've never believed in the concept of an "IWC". Because there is no community. Even using these forums as a sample group, there's barely any stability in membership or consensus of opinion. Sure, lots of older fans from the Attitude era dislike John Cena, but there are still plenty of younger fans who love him. And plenty of neutral fans who dislike him but begrudgingly respect him and accept his role. And yes, plenty of people here like Christian. But plenty of others don't feel he belongs in the main event. This disagreement occurs in every single topic. Hell, even in this one people can't even agree on what the IWC even IS. Another implication of a "community" is some sort of stability in membership. And while we have regular posters, how many new members do we have here every day? How many posters come and go on an irregular basis? And what connection do posters have with each other outside of occasionally expressing their opinions on these forums? None. There is simply no common ground between the so-called "IWC" other than liking pro-wrestling, and using the internet. And the latter condition is pretty much a given for the former (and everyone else in a modern country).

In short, there is no IWC. Because what we get online isn't a community; rather it's a dynamic collection of random samples coming from various demographics. Fans on these forums come from pretty much all walks of life, and all age groups. And everyone of them has their own individual likes and dislikes. "IWC" is therefore just a term used by some of these individuals to marginalize and dismiss other wrestling fans who disagree with them. The delusion (or indulgence) that there is an "IWC" creates the impression that it's an overwhelmingly negative community, because all of the individual instances of criticism become lumped together and attributed to a group, rather than to individual opinions.

E.B is making this same mistake. And it's a foolish one to make, because despite all of the effort and resources that have gone into improving TNA, it's position remains relatively unchanged. Alienating any of it's fans (let alone potentially alienating ALL of them) just for the sake of lashing back against perceived critics is reckless. And what's the payoff, exactly? Even if there were an "IWC" and it accounted for just 10% of his viewers, what's the business sense in attacking that percentage and discouraging them from watching his product? This just seems like an immature tantrum. I would expect E.B to have more sense than to get down in the dirt and lash out like this.


Yours is probably the best post I've seen so far on this subject. I tried to take the same tack, albeit thru a different route, about this being a careless business decision on his part. But I think I can add to yours just a bit if I may be so bold.

I work in specialty retail. Our company has a customer service survey that we ask our consumers to complete at home online. Now, for us, ANY negative feedback is seen as poor performance on our part, much less any visible % of negative feedback. In fact, our company tracks these surveys as a percentage of not only how many our completed, but how many, as a percentage, are positive versus negative.

So here we are with EB essentially saying that he doesn't mind writing off, potentially, 10% of their base. If I even considered that in the business I'd work in, I'd be relieved of my duties immediately.
 
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LOL. If you all ask me, I think you're all doing exactly what EB & the rest of the TNA staff want you to do: start a big internet rant.

Do you all not remember the new 'shoot' style of TV that TNA was going to be bringing in? this is a part of that. Everyone knows that the only company that is getting any success on TV is WWE. Therefore, the only success TNA can have is by having the viewership of the 10% minority.

So Bischoff, being the heel that he is, is showing "disgust, disinterest, & looks down" on the IWC. So that when TNA writing finally caves in to what the true wrestling fans (the IWC fans) want, then they shall build a cult following that will eventually make the company that much more profitable.

Here's an example: the X division angle. When EB & Hogan came in, we saw the serious decline of the X division almost to a point that it became extinct. Hogan & EB really thought the division as 'not profitable,' until the Internet fans started complaining more & more. Now look at iMPACT!, we see now the X division stars are starting to become face underdogs & slowly be presented again on TV like they should've.

It's all a part of the plans...
 
This may be true for the WWE but the majority of TNA fans are a part of the IWC and that's exactly why they can't get a 2 or above in the ratings. As much as Eric hates on the IWC, TNA still insists on using terms that would be obscure to anybody that isn't a "smark" which is exactly what the IWC consists of. Eric's thoughts and what gets put on TNA television contradict each other almost severely.
 
As much as I think Bischoff is a fucking toolbag, he's right here. I guess I'm part of the "IWC" but I'm not one of those people constantly bitching about every little thing. "WOW JOHN CENA ONLY USED 4 MOVES TODAY, THIS IS LESS THAN HIS AVERAGE OF 6, I HATE HIM MORE NOW VINCE IS STUPID WHY AREN'T YOU USING PRIMO VINCE???". Maybe a little dramatic but you get the point.

The IWC is full of morons, chalked full of morons. Yes there are some that I'm like 'hey, that guy knows his stuff'. But at the end of the day, the IWC is here typing their theories, predictions, ideas, and whatever else whereas guys like Vince and Bischoff are actually making the decisions - for a reason, they're smarter about the wrestling business and know more about it. What's going to get Vince more money? Having Daniel Bryan have a 10 year title reign like some of these idiots seem to want or having John Cena defeat every heel in the business? No answer needed. End of discussion.

Whether TNA or WCW is a strong company or not is irrelevant, let's see any of you chumps make a company that gets that far.
 
1/ Why are people using John Cena in this argument? WWE's fan base is totally different to TNA's. It seems at times that no one even knows the company exists. I mean even TNA treat it this way. Why else does TAZ every frigging epsiode say "Folks if you haven't seen what AJ Styles can do in the ring your in for a treat".

2/ How does Bischoff know that 10% of TNA's audience (yes we are talking about TNA not WWE guys) is IWC and the other 90% aren't? If Bischoff thinks TNA's audience yes TNA's not WWE audience is only 10% IWC then he's lying to himself or he has no idea about what company he works for.

3/ TNA's ratings have been a steady 1.2 for about two years. Who else would watch it no matter what they do other than wrestling geeks ie. IWC?

4/ Like someone already said he is attacking his fan base no matter what percentage they are.
 
The grim reality is that Wrestling is still an anachronistic show... it's the same basic formula that was in the 50's, it never will "move with the times" just as you can only ever change the setting of Shakespeare...

It was never an "interactive concept" other than for fleecing suckers out of bet, entrance and beer money... where the IWC is "irrelevant" is that they don't use their collective to influence, it's all about individual opinion.. but if everyone on WZ forums clubbed together £1000 we'd have a say, ten grand, they could own a sizable piece of WWE... we just don't... so yeah, Bischoff is right there... he at least puts his money where his mouth is...
 
I partially agree with Bischoff. IWC is mostly group of people that thinks they are super bookers, managers, financial specialists, trainers, with one answer to almost everything: fire hogan, bischoff, russo, everyone over 40, hire hayman, and bring back x-division. Maybe if we are so smart, we should cheap in, make donations and create new wrestling promotion. It would definitely be a success as there are so many experts here.

However, i don't agree with Bischoff that we are irrelevant and our voice doesn't matter. We are a sample of a population that watches TNA and buys their products. We might be somehow biased, but we still are a sample. Whenever you do any research you are dealing with samples. Some samples are better than others, but still our opinions reflect, to some extend, the opinions of population.
 
It just goes to show how out of touch E.B is. This isn't 1995, when the internet was populated by a small group of geeks and recluses. It's 2011; everyone is on the internet. And everyone is using the internet to research and discuss things that they are interested in. Not all wrestling fans on the internet necessarily pass through wrestlezone forums or any other specific site. But I guarantee you that the vast majority of wresting fans in North America have actively sought out information or discussion about wrestling online through either twitter, facebook, forums, wikipedia, etc etc. It's just improbable that they haven't.

That's why I've never believed in the concept of an "IWC". Because there is no community. Even using these forums as a sample group, there's barely any stability in membership or consensus of opinion. Sure, lots of older fans from the Attitude era dislike John Cena, but there are still plenty of younger fans who love him. And plenty of neutral fans who dislike him but begrudgingly respect him and accept his role. And yes, plenty of people here like Christian. But plenty of others don't feel he belongs in the main event. This disagreement occurs in every single topic. Hell, even in this one people can't even agree on what the IWC even IS. Another implication of a "community" is some sort of stability in membership. And while we have regular posters, how many new members do we have here every day? How many posters come and go on an irregular basis? And what connection do posters have with each other outside of occasionally expressing their opinions on these forums? None. There is simply no common ground between the so-called "IWC" other than liking pro-wrestling, and using the internet. And the latter condition is pretty much a given for the former (and everyone else in a modern country).

In short, there is no IWC. Because what we get online isn't a community; rather it's a dynamic collection of random samples coming from various demographics. Fans on these forums come from pretty much all walks of life, and all age groups. And everyone of them has their own individual likes and dislikes. "IWC" is therefore just a term used by some of these individuals to marginalize and dismiss other wrestling fans who disagree with them. The delusion (or indulgence) that there is an "IWC" creates the impression that it's an overwhelmingly negative community, because all of the individual instances of criticism become lumped together and attributed to a group, rather than to individual opinions.

E.B is making this same mistake. And it's a foolish one to make, because despite all of the effort and resources that have gone into improving TNA, it's position remains relatively unchanged. Alienating any of it's fans (let alone potentially alienating ALL of them) just for the sake of lashing back against perceived critics is reckless. And what's the payoff, exactly? Even if there were an "IWC" and it accounted for just 10% of his viewers, what's the business sense in attacking that percentage and discouraging them from watching his product? This just seems like an immature tantrum. I would expect E.B to have more sense than to get down in the dirt and lash out like this.

I was going to make a post based around the fact that the IWC generally can't even agree with one another about wresters and storylines, and while I skipped to the last page so I don't know if someone else touched on that too, I saw that you did. With that said, I still disagree with you for the most part. The IWC most certainly does exist. One can nitpick at the definition of the word community all they want, it doesn't matter because its a term. I haven't seen IWC in a dictionary yet. Aside from that, even within any community there will be vast differences in opinion. For example, the mayor where I live was elected with a 53% vote, which means as I'm sure you can tell, that half the city didn't want him. And while agree a lot of wrestling fans check wrestlers pages on Facebook or Twitter, that is not the IWC. The IWC are the people on the forums. The IWC are the ones checking spoilers, writing fantasy storylines, e-feds, desperate to learn of any new politics or upcoming storylines or returns. It is not simply a wrestling fan with an internet connection. I would dare say Bischoff rounded up to 10%, and that we're more like 5%. Of all the wrestling fans I've met, I know one other member of the IWC.

Now here's the problem with the IWC. As an aspiring wrestler myself, ask yourself, if you were in the WWE or TNA, would you respect us? I sure wouldn't. I don't have much respect for us now. The IWC 8 years ago? Sure. I was on WZ back then, I had around 3000 posts. I helped run WZCW. There were thousands upon thousands of posters, yet they were vastly intelligent. The spammers were banned, a few were kept around to be made fun of. Then it started changing. It became flooded with idiots. Ten year olds were getting internet access and finding their way into the IWC, enough that I quit posting. Now? The idiots and kids outnumber the intellectuals 25-1. The IWC truly is a joke. Half are still "marks" who don't even realize what is going on. Another quarter are social outcasts who try to act cool and hope everyone is measuring their dick size by their post count or Moderator status, and the rest usually can't even agree amongst themselves and tend to be hypocritical as hell, not to mention impossible to please. It's pathetic.

Bischoff is right. We are truly insignificant. The wrestlers dont respect us, as they shouldn't. Not only do we represent such a small percentage, but if someone did try to take the time to read threads to find a good idea and a consensus, they would be too distracted by the morons and the internet macho men, they wouldnt even know what they're reading. And look at how many people have taken personal offense to his statement, and retaliate with how WCW failed. I'm sorry, lets be real here. Bischoff knows more about wrestling than all of us. Combined. We are not in the business. We are not employees. We don't know what happens in meetings, all we know is the crap we are fed by the dirtsheets, which are fifty times more unreliable and biased than even the worst news sources. And yet as a unit we come off like we know everything, yet we know nothing aside from our own misguided opinions. He isnt alone on his stance, either. I've seen everyone from CM Punk to HBK to Jericho trash the IWC. Our most beloved wrestlers don't even respect us. I ask again, can you blame them?
 
Funny part is he is right.

Wrestling execs WWE or TNA are not wasting there time on what forum fans want.

I feel okay about this.
 
I'm not too sure why EB is criticizing the IWC. Unfortuantely, whether he likes it or not, his ratings AREN'T telling him that the fans like his product. In fact, the ratings might be stating that the fans don't like your product. I don't consider a 1.2 rating a huge success by any means. And whether EB likes it or not, most TNA fans are those 10% of IWC smarks that he's insulting.

Personally, I'm not offended. However, most casual fans I know that don't follow as much on the WWW either don't care about TNA, don't know of it's existence, or flat out admit they dislike it. I definitely agree with EB that a wrestling company shouldn't cater to such a small sampling of fans (especially when said fans bitch about any little thing they see is wrong and could drive a wrestling company to the ground faster than Vince Russo and Eric...er...wait a minute...)
 
IWC is irrelevant to a power machine like WWE who will draw ratings and crowds no matter what product they put out. Eric B is a fool if he doesn't think that half of his 1 million viewers a week are people that check wrestling news sites. not to mention the bulk of house show attendance (or lack there of)
 
So was it money or AOL? Make up your mind.

WCW folding had nothing to do with money. AOL HATED wrestling with a passion and WCW was going no matter if it made money or not. They considered wrestling to be lowbrow and beneath them. Funny coming from a company like AOL.

Someone already said this but Bischoff cares a whole lot about the IWC. He hates them with a passion but he cares. But he is right that the IWC is irrelevant.

Yep Eric the ratings don't lie. Maybe you should spend making your product watchable instead of taking shots at people.

No, it had everything to do with money. AOL/Time Warner was their money. Time Warner specifically prior to the merger was the "ATM" to "ATM Eric", hence when the money was squeezed, the product faltered, and when the money was cut off (post-merger), the product ceased to exist.

WCW was "going" no matter what, but could have been sold to another station or owner who might have garnered a new network spot had they not let the company deteriorate to nothing.
 
I was going to make a post based around the fact that the IWC generally can't even agree with one another about wresters and storylines, and while I skipped to the last page so I don't know if someone else touched on that too, I saw that you did. With that said, I still disagree with you for the most part. The IWC most certainly does exist. One can nitpick at the definition of the word community all they want, it doesn't matter because its a term. I haven't seen IWC in a dictionary yet. Aside from that, even within any community there will be vast differences in opinion. For example, the mayor where I live was elected with a 53% vote, which means as I'm sure you can tell, that half the city didn't want him. And while agree a lot of wrestling fans check wrestlers pages on Facebook or Twitter, that is not the IWC. The IWC are the people on the forums. The IWC are the ones checking spoilers, writing fantasy storylines, e-feds, desperate to learn of any new politics or upcoming storylines or returns. It is not simply a wrestling fan with an internet connection. I would dare say Bischoff rounded up to 10%, and that we're more like 5%. Of all the wrestling fans I've met, I know one other member of the IWC.

Now here's the problem with the IWC. As an aspiring wrestler myself, ask yourself, if you were in the WWE or TNA, would you respect us? I sure wouldn't. I don't have much respect for us now. The IWC 8 years ago? Sure. I was on WZ back then, I had around 3000 posts. I helped run WZCW. There were thousands upon thousands of posters, yet they were vastly intelligent. The spammers were banned, a few were kept around to be made fun of. Then it started changing. It became flooded with idiots. Ten year olds were getting internet access and finding their way into the IWC, enough that I quit posting. Now? The idiots and kids outnumber the intellectuals 25-1. The IWC truly is a joke. Half are still "marks" who don't even realize what is going on. Another quarter are social outcasts who try to act cool and hope everyone is measuring their dick size by their post count or Moderator status, and the rest usually can't even agree amongst themselves and tend to be hypocritical as hell, not to mention impossible to please. It's pathetic.

Bischoff is right. We are truly insignificant. The wrestlers dont respect us, as they shouldn't. Not only do we represent such a small percentage, but if someone did try to take the time to read threads to find a good idea and a consensus, they would be too distracted by the morons and the internet macho men, they wouldnt even know what they're reading. And look at how many people have taken personal offense to his statement, and retaliate with how WCW failed. I'm sorry, lets be real here. Bischoff knows more about wrestling than all of us. Combined. We are not in the business. We are not employees. We don't know what happens in meetings, all we know is the crap we are fed by the dirtsheets, which are fifty times more unreliable and biased than even the worst news sources. And yet as a unit we come off like we know everything, yet we know nothing aside from our own misguided opinions. He isnt alone on his stance, either. I've seen everyone from CM Punk to HBK to Jericho trash the IWC. Our most beloved wrestlers don't even respect us. I ask again, can you blame them?

The most intelligent thought out post in this thread. You are more right than Bischoff. The same people we idolize could give two shits about us. There are idiotic smarks til this day blame HBK and Vince for Montreal. Like get over it that was 1997. The attitude era was the greatest, really Mea Young showing her tits and giving birth to a hand was great. I could run WCW better than Bischoff, ok can you turn a company from red to black before Billionaire Ted really opened his check book. Only one man has done that. Cena sucks why is he always champ give someone else a shot, how many times was Ric Flair champ again? and he had his own 5 moves of doom.

Man there's so much politics in wrestling like there's politics in every job. People just need to shut the fuck up for 5 minutes and enjoy the show. Not enjoying the show turn the channel, watch porn ( Backdoor To Chyna cuming soon ) get in the kitchen and cook, read a book without illustrations basically do something useful with your time instead of bitching about how you can do a better storyline. Think you could write a better script than the current writers it's simple go to the company website and apply for a job, even if you get rejected at least you tried instead of he's not main event status even though he's two time champ etc.
 
Yours is probably the best post I've seen so far on this subject. I tried to take the same tack, albeit thru a different route, about this being a careless business decision on his part. But I think I can add to yours just a bit if I may be so bold.

I work in specialty retail. Our company has a customer service survey that we ask our consumers to complete at home online. Now, for us, ANY negative feedback is seen as poor performance on our part, much less any visible % of negative feedback. In fact, our company tracks these surveys as a percentage of not only how many our completed, but how many, as a percentage, are positive versus negative.

So here we are with EB essentially saying that he doesn't mind writing off, potentially, 10% of their base. If I even considered that in the business I'd work in, I'd be relieved of my duties immediately.

Thanks, and I agree completely. 10% of your customers, particularly if it's the the most loyal and diehard part of that group, would be a big deal to any company. Of course, that 10% is something Bischoff is pulling out of his ass, as it's practically impossible to track just how much of his audience is on internet forums. You'd need far too much in-depth information on the true identities of people to be able to get such figures. While other companies are utilizing the internet at every turn to try and gather more information about potential customers, and sell to them, Bischoff is marginalizing and dismissing internet wrestling fans as irrelevant

I was going to make a post based around the fact that the IWC generally can't even agree with one another about wresters and storylines, and while I skipped to the last page so I don't know if someone else touched on that too, I saw that you did. With that said, I still disagree with you for the most part. The IWC most certainly does exist. One can nitpick at the definition of the word community all they want, it doesn't matter because its a term. I haven't seen IWC in a dictionary yet. Aside from that, even within any community there will be vast differences in opinion. For example, the mayor where I live was elected with a 53% vote, which means as I'm sure you can tell, that half the city didn't want him. And while agree a lot of wrestling fans check wrestlers pages on Facebook or Twitter, that is not the IWC. The IWC are the people on the forums. The IWC are the ones checking spoilers, writing fantasy storylines, e-feds, desperate to learn of any new politics or upcoming storylines or returns. It is not simply a wrestling fan with an internet connection. I would dare say Bischoff rounded up to 10%, and that we're more like 5%. Of all the wrestling fans I've met, I know one other member of the IWC.

Now here's the problem with the IWC. As an aspiring wrestler myself, ask yourself, if you were in the WWE or TNA, would you respect us? I sure wouldn't. I don't have much respect for us now. The IWC 8 years ago? Sure. I was on WZ back then, I had around 3000 posts. I helped run WZCW. There were thousands upon thousands of posters, yet they were vastly intelligent. The spammers were banned, a few were kept around to be made fun of. Then it started changing. It became flooded with idiots. Ten year olds were getting internet access and finding their way into the IWC, enough that I quit posting. Now? The idiots and kids outnumber the intellectuals 25-1. The IWC truly is a joke. Half are still "marks" who don't even realize what is going on. Another quarter are social outcasts who try to act cool and hope everyone is measuring their dick size by their post count or Moderator status, and the rest usually can't even agree amongst themselves and tend to be hypocritical as hell, not to mention impossible to please.

While there's not 100% consensus on the term, here's part of the wikipedia entry: "Traditionally a 'community' has been defined as a group of interacting people living in a common location. The word is often used to refer to a group that is organized around common values and is attributed with social cohesion within a shared geographical location, generally in social units larger than a household." While the people in your town may have different political opinions, at least they live in the same area, have largely the same problems and concerns, and I assume have a similar culture. That can't necessarily be said of the fans here. As I was saying, there's no real community here because the people on these forums share little else other than a love of wrestling and an internet connection (well, and enough passion about wrestling to post about it, or at least lurk on the forums).

But put aside the validity of the term for a minute, and lets get to the main point, which (with all due respect) you're kind of making for me. As you admit yourself (and even if you're going to narrow the definition of "IWC" down to just forum users), it's impossible to look at the so-called "IWC" and conclude anything about its' likes or dislikes, because there's very little consensus to draw conclusions from. And when you point out that the forums used to be comprised of mainly intellectuals, but are now populated by "idiots," "kids," "social outcasts," and "10 year olds," that just illustrates the point even more. We're getting fans of all sorts even on these forums: the marks who don't know what's going on are casual fans, the intellectuals are the hardcore. People here don't even like each other, let alone agree on anything. To say that members of the "IWC" are a community based on a devotion to wrestling is the same as saying that hardcore liberals and conservatives are a community because both are politically active.

Ultimately though, the actual existence of an "IWC" (which I personally think is a figment of peoples imagination) is irrelevant and secondary to what people PERCEIVE it to be. As you say, the fact that it's not in the dictionary makes it very open to interpretation. In your case, you're making a subjective distinction between internet users and people who post on forums/look at spoilers/etc, but there's no evidence to suggest that the two groups activities are mutually exclusive. Or that the average fan will make the same distinction. And even a slight dabbling in forums/dirt sheets would make a fan a part of Bischoff's "IWC" generalization. I think Bischoff is underestimating how active the average fan is on the internet, and to what extent the average fan is involved in forums/message boards/spoiler sites/etc when it comes to entertainment that they enjoy. I also think he's erroneously assuming that everyone criticizing TNA is a part of a small and vocal minority. Rather, I think you've just got a lot of people here who like and dislike various things about TNA, and that they are all getting lumped together even though they really don't agree on anything.

The main point though, is even if you conclude that E.B only insulted 10% of TNA's fanbase (and as others have pointed out, that's highly questionable), and even if some of those people honestly deserve the criticism, what's to gain by doing so? E.B may know a lot more about pro-wrestling than we do, but he sure as hell doesn't seem to grasp that deliberately alienating any portion of your customers is just a bad idea. I'm not going to lose any sleep over Bischoff "offending" me, but there are plenty of fans out there who will take this personally, and really I'm not sure that TNA can afford to lose them.
 
Let me tell you what I think, is hilarious. The fact that so many people on this post believe that Eric is right, and yet will still post tomorrow and the next day and the day after that. If the IWC truly doesn't matter, why is there still an IWC? because believe it or not, Bischoff, Hogan, Vince and every other wrestling promoter reads these posts. They read them and they pay attention. If we believed in EVERYTHING that was happening in every wrestling promotion and praised it every week, we'd be loved by Eric and he'd probably repost every single thing we said. But because he constantly (and rightfully so) gets criticized every week because of poor booking, wasted talent, ridiculous decision making and overall bad management he blogs that we don't matter. The reality no one here (at least I'm not) under any delusions that what I say is life changing and earth shattering but I am also not going to sit here and be made to believe that some of our ideas aren't at the VERY LEAST being considered. Everything done, has been done before and writers get blocks every now and then. As "brilliant" as these guys are they DO need inspiration at times and if you don't think that some of the ideas posted in wrestlezone forums or other wrestling site forums are considered you're crazy. Yes the IWC is the minority, and yes we complain about a majority of things in the business today. A lot of the IWC are made up of people who grew up watching wrestlign when it actually mattered. When wrestling was made up of great characters, great storylines and angles that made sense. Where there were competing promotions that made each other better. At least that is why I am a part of the IWC. I love this business, I grew up wrestling in the backyard with my friends and making title belts out of cardboard and aluminum foil (yall know what i'm talkin bout!) The IWC has become my backyard and these forums are my title belts. I am a REAL fan and I have comments questions and ideas and for me to be called a 10 percenter with no wrestling knowledge is stupid and assumptious. I have wrestling knowledge, DEFINITELY not as much as people who are in the business, but i have enough to know this:
Eric, in the GRAND scheme of things and your ultimate decision making capability, we may NOT matter, but we apparently ARE somewhat relevant if you've felt the need to address us. And believe it or not, admit it or not, whether you address it or act like you don't, you're hearing us.
Believe it.
 
I don't understand. I wasn't aware that people outside of the Internet Wrestling Community actually knew TNA existed. Because I'm pretty sure they don't.

There's the famous statistic that we only make up 10% of the audience. That might be true when you talk about the WWE, who are an established company with over 50 years of history.

There are plenty of people that watch the WWE that aren't part of the IWC. Because they know Hulk Hogan, and Stone Cold, and they've seen John Cena on Jimmy Kimmel. They know these things because they've been in the mainstream media since the 80's.

But we're talking about TNA. They've been around for what? 10 years? The only reason they've been a mild success (and I say that very lightly) is because of the IWC wanting something different. To say they're not a larger part of that audience is ridiculous.

I would ask Eric to open his eyes and realise he isn't working in a large, international company that people all know. Jesus, I'm an internet smark and I barely know what they get up to.
 
Last but not least, because I just reread some more stuff in this thread. If we truly don't matter....and most of the people in this thread agree that we don't matter, why continue posting? Why continue to be a community? Why not dissolve it all together?
 
Of course the internet doesn't report the entire fucking story.


Before Eric made his comment he was actually talking to a couple fans on twitter.

A fan said your segment with Hulk got a 1.5 and then said the IWC doesn't know a damn thing because of that

That is where Eric Bischoff said is line about the 10 percent and so on.


What I think this was was Eric pointing out that 10 percent of wrestling fans ( IWC ) has nothing but shitty things to say about him and Hogan, yet their segment drew a number that an entire show of Impact Wrestling has only done one time.
 

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