Enough is Enough and its time for a change

[RicSpade]

So really what this is all about is the fact that the WWE has finally started to stray away with the attitude era PPVs, and have started to try and in Vinces' words "SHAKE THINGS UP!" and we are seeing alot of different concepts being used now. I must admit I have been a fan of all the innovations made during the Eric Bischoff/Paul Heyman stint of the WWE, and in that time we have seen Ambulance matches, Elimination Chambers, Raw Roulette, and it has occured to me that the problem to me is (this goes for TNA too) They are packing as much content in one PPV (namely the themed PPVs) just to entice buyrates, but honestly they end up leaving a sort of void in what to do.

John Cena has now beat Randy Orton in a Submission match, beaten up in a Hell in a Cell and Sunday we will see Cena in an Iron man match, now if Cena wins the rivalry is done and they written themselves in a hole of sorts cause you either got to bring someone up, move someone, or turn someone. If Orton wins you lose one of the top talents on Raw (and half your pg audience) and if Orton does lose and eventually gets another title shot through the Rumble or whatever, there really isn't anything left to give the fans now because they have seen it all.

So really the question is what can the WWE do to actually be innovative with PPVs? or with the product in general?

My theory is I think its time Vince puts less stock in the PPV and more stock in the show. Meaning I think we need to go back to maybe 8-10 ppvs a year. I mean really I miss the time they had to build feuds. Old school 90's it would take a few months to culminate a feud at a ppv, and you would have the course of 6-10 shows to build on it, now a days we have a ppv every 3-4 weeks and you have to build the matches for it on each show. There is no depth anymore, and I think TNA would have the right idea by cutting PPVS, I mean hell atleast you see everything get built on their two hour show, and it comes full circle.

If Vince is going to keep the ppv's going you have to not put stock on themed ppvs, because honestly its not interesting to me, I mean I have been on the independent scene for a little over a year, and have been watching wrestling for over 17 the only themed things in wrestling that ever got over were Royal Rumble, Survivor Series elimination matches, World War 3 (three rings 90 wrestlers for you young kids who forgot what WCW was), the six sides of steel, and War Games, most of those matches with the exception of the survivor series pre attitude era were all either main events or just one match on the card.

You want to stray away from the attitude era fine, but limit the types of stuff you are doing, bragging rights so far is your best concept because atleast your not killing us with three iron man matches and every match in Raw vs Smackdown you have a big 14 man tag a four way and an iron man match, packed? yes, but atleast your not getting three of the same exact match spread out throughout the night because you can't figure out how to book it and then end up making DX vs Legacy more important than both titles (another bad call btw)

Anyways what are your takes on themed ppvs, and what would you actually like to see in terms of match types and themed ppvs?

 

[JimmyLeviathan]

You make a good point, less PPV's would definitely be a good thing. Everything feels rushed by the WWE lately, like they just slap it all together. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It's a case of less is more and you're exactly right, just because they cram so much into their PPV's doesn't make them better, it only elicits apathy from an audience who have seen it all already.

People wonder why storylines mean nothing anymore and aren't as entertaining as they were ten years ago, well how can you possibly make great storylines like the Invasion and Austin vs. McMahon when you have to churn out a PPV once every three-four weeks? The WWE have dug themselves into a hole with this scheduling. I agree, bring it back to eight or ten a year.

To be honest as long as they don't change any of the Big Four ('Mania, Royal Rumble, Survivor Series and Summerfest) I don't care what the PPV's are called. However, while gimmick matches might increase buyrates, by next year all the precious little kiddies will have seen it all already.

Personally I like the concept of a Smackdown Vs Raw PPV, I feel there is no need for a PPV with hardcore matches (Hell In A Cell, TLC) because they really aren't hardcore anymore. Breaking Point and all Submission matches was ok and the Elimination Chamber concept is ok too but why change the name to Elimination Chamber? Wasn't No Way Out explanatory enough? Gives you an idea of who they're targeting: idiot little children who need everything spelled out to them

One or two of these gimmick PPV's are ok but to change every existing PPV and saddle it with some kind of gimmick is incredibly limiting, no matter how many people are watching it. There'll be less character development and too much focus on the match type.

What's next, WWE Femme Fatale where all matches are Diva's matches? WWE Pole Position where all matches are contested under the '...on a pole' rules. Or how about WWE Luck Of The Irish where all matches feature interference from Hornswoggle in some way?

 

[degeneratex]

i think there's a bit of over-exposure now where there are too many PPV's, people just can't keep spending out so much on ppv's every month (imo).

With the investigation by the US government into wrestlers dying and them not getting much in the way of time off it would be an ideal time to cut back on PPV's as a way of giving wrestlers more time off, they can take time to build feuds in advance and create a desire from the fans to see their favourite wrestler. it would also lead to fewer title changes and bringing a bit of prestige back to the titles where they wouldn't be changing hands every month and looking devalued.

 

[Tyler44]

Vince knows exactly what hes doing. Do you realize, that even though older fans that know somewhat of how the business works are complaining, that the little kids absolutely love what is on the tv all 3 days a week, maybe 4 for some of them, then plus the ppv. They don't know what is going on outside of the show, they have never seen some of these repeated storylines the first time, they never saw Hulk Hogan, and they cheer for who they are suppose to cheer, and not who entertains them the most. Think of when you were a kid a cheered for Hogan, well you then is the kids now with Cena. We have to realize this program is no longer for us anymore. It is for young kids who have never seen the glory days of wwe. Just think, when these kids grow up, they will look back and realize how good wwe was when they were young. (right now). The kids dont care or acknowledge Triple H is destroying all pushes for the young talent, that ecw is the training ground for wwe and they are testing young talent, cena's gimmick is stale, batista is a terrible in ring talent, they dont know about this, online sites that give away everything going on or thats going to happen, and there is just so much more we bitch about that kids dont acknowledge. Overall, the wwe isnt for us anymore, and it is still making money so it isnt completely useless.

 

[unique.enigma.666]

I think they should cut like 1 or 2 useless PPV's, obviously not the big four or Backlash, Backlash is always an awesome event they shouldn't cut that or rename it. This sunday is the perfect opportunity however like you illuded to, to turn someone, move someone up, or move someone from SD or ECW to Raw. Christian could defend the ECW title at B.R., drop it to whoever, Zack Ryder perhaps? At the end of the event we see him either turn heel and assault Cena after he wins, or we see him blind-side Orton post-match. Maybes even tease more of this Legacy split by having DiBiase either take his time or not appear at all. I kinda wish we didn't see three HIAC matches, DX/Legacy was killer, and although Orton/Cena was enjoyable, the cell was useless, same with Punk/Taker, wasn't used, scrap HIAC I say, Breaking Point wasn't at all bad, the main event, obviously due to 'Taker's limited ring work since returning from surgery, wasn't as good as I expected, didn't see Orton/Cena but seemed alright, again DX/Legacy was killer. They shouldn't have changed the names/themes of NWO or Armageddon either, NWO is awesome they already had the elimination chamber concepts for 2 years running, naming it Elimination Chamber is a bit naff, as for Armageddon changing to TLC, but supposedly only the main event is a TLC match so that'll be better rather than enduring 3 TLC's in one night, SD deserves the main event however if Punk is the Champ or challenger then, he did incredibly well at SummerSlam. I reckon they should go back to brand-exclusive PPV's also, at least then we saw feuds last longer, title reigns last longer, and we didn't see the same people in the matches for 3 PPV's running, yeah I recall back in 2004 when Eddie Guerrero may he rest in peace was the WWE Champion we saw him main event JD and GAB in his feud with JBL, but they built it up exceptionally well, plotted it out in the right way, and, as much as I dislike him, Cena was the same when he feuded with Edge in 2006, don't like his character or when he wrestles but Cena was gold in the feud with Edge. I'm a huge WWE fan, they have their faults, nothings perfect even I can admit that but I'll still watch the shows and if I'm lucky watch the PPV's because I'm still a hardcore fan of it, some bits I do like or at times love and some bits I dislike or hate

 

[friarferguson]

I think the main two problems are too many pay-per-views and not enough talent. We're all tired of HHH, Cena, Batista, Orton, Michaels and Taker in the top tier especially as the final two are on their last legs as performers. Apart from CM Punk and to a lesser extent Rhodes and Dibiase there hasn't been an attempt to push anyone new in the past year. And that is the problem if you have 13 or 14 pay-per-views you need different matches and different feuds.
The feuds back in the days of four pay-per-views seemed special and whatever happened on the pay-per-view added to what happened elsewhere. I'm thinking of Jake Roberts/Andre the Giant, Big Boss Man/Hulk Hogan and the whole Megabucks/Megapowers feud.
The other problem is the lack of a decent tag team in the eighties you had at least eight or ten tag teams. At the moment the champs are two upper midcarders and their challengers have been two other mid-carders (Henry and MVP) and of course DX. The only real tag teams at the moment are The Harts and Cryme Tyme who have battled each other so many times its ridiculous.
Cut the pay-per-views down to the Big Four and another four then you have more time to develop talents and create feuds.

 

[TheChristmasCreature]

I vaguely remember the E doing brand specific PPVs. If they were to do a Smackdown then Raw, rotating monthly (with ECW thrown in the mix for both and of course the tag titles as they're not brand specific), then there would be time to build storylines. Just a thought.

 

[RawIsRamsey]

The only problem with branding the PPVs again is buyrates...which show would you rather buy (from a casual fan's perspective):

A RAW show featuring DX, Cena, Legacy, MVP, Big Show, Swagger, Kofi, Miz, Evan Bourne...

A Smackdown! show featuring Jericho, Punk, a broken down Taker, the Glass Tag Team of Batista and Mysterio, and...um...a crapload of midcarders?

It's all about star power, and RAW, unfortunately, has it. Sure, us more smarky types would prefer to get the Smackdown show, cause the wrestling will be great. However, we all know that the IWC only makes up 10% of the audience...meaning 90% would order to see people they know.

This isn't even including how badly an ECW-only PPV would get raped...I don't even think they have enough people on their roster to do a whole PPV, even all singles matches.

The WWE just strictly need to cut back...14 PPVs a year is insane, especially with TNA putting on another 12 and the UFC putting on another 14...a ring sports fan could go broke any given month, plus there's burnout and overexposure on the product (hence the low buyrates that are gonna happen with UFC 104 on Saturday...plus the card sucks).

Their schedule SHOULD look like this:
January: Rumble
February: Nothing (use shows to build to Mania/3-hour RAW)
March: Mania
April: Backlash
May: Nothing (KotR tourney on the shows?)
June: King Of The Ring
July: Great American Bash (FUCK the change to "The Bash"...and fuck what other countries think)
August: Summerslam
September: Nothing (again, another 3-hour RAW and "season premieres" and all that jazz)
October: Gimmick PPV (rotate it...subs, HiaC, WARGAMES, etc.)
November: Survivor Series
December: Whatever (they can leave it blank, do a PPV, who cares...by the end of the year everyone is tight on money anyway, so a good 3-hour RAW can be just as welcome)

 

[arun_is_wrestling]

i like this post. and to be honest, with cutting a few ppvs , and building it up, you would get more ppv buys possibly. instead of , il leave hell in a cell, buy bragging rights etc, people puld buy it because it will be built up and worth while. so good concept.

 

[healyz84]

The problem is, and has been for years, the fact that the wwe has too many ppv's. As sad as it is, I look back to the first few years of the brand extension as the last golden years of the wwe. This was time when besides the big 4 (RR, WM, Summerslam and Survivor Series), raw and smackdown had their own ppv. You had Backlash being Raw, Judgement Day being Smackdown only, and so on. This concept worked, because for the most part you had about 2 months for a good build up to take place between ppv's. Sure, it led to some pretty weak cards at times because the shows are weaker at the bottem. But hell, for me, as long as the wrestling is good, I don't care if im seeing guys that are not necessarily 'big stars'. Suddenly however, the brand extension became less so, and the ppv's were integrated once more. What was worse, they began to add new ppv's at specific times to make some breaks between about 3 weeks (like adding New Years Revolution or Cyber Sunday/Taboo Tuesday). With this excessive need to make money (gotta have that good buyrate), we are getting ppv's forced down our gullets. With this we are getting the constant barrage of concept matches that really need lead to nowhere. Typically in the past you would see a steel cage match or a last man standing match at the most once a year, and these matches would be the way to end a feud because the traditional ways just are not doing it or the feud has become so personal that it needs it. Now we have for instance CM Punk vs Undertaker never competing in an ordinary one on one match. We have Submission, HIAC, and submission again. Im sorry but I don't see the hatred, the desire to annihilate the other superstar, the overall need to end a feud that would create such matches to take place. What we need to see is more just regular one on one matches, and a gimmick match to end the feuds when needed. WWE needs to learn about moderation. But we probably won't get this because the wwe has that desire to just shove ppv's down our throats and get more money. But the truth is, people are just going to stop tuning in and paying 40-50 dollars.

 

[samboisdead]

I rember back in the day when there was a 3 or 4 month build up to WM. If nothing else they should start doing that again. Also I would like to see the winner of the Royal Rumble not get a WM title shot. He could still get a title shot just not at Mania. For me this really takes away from the great feuds they used to build going into Mania.

 

[unique.enigma.666]

Also in addition to what I posted on PPV's earlier I think they could definetly form some teams across the brands aswell, R-Truth could benefit from being teamed with someone, IF, and I know this a mighty big IF Booker is returning, he and R-Truth could form a team, they both have that charisma and energy, and with Booker's age he could benefit being in a team, limiting his ring-work. If not him then Kofi, not just because they're African-American but because they're both popular, have great chemistry with the crowd and could pull off some innovative double team moves. Finlay could be a heel manager for Sheamus and McIntyre, they would benefit from working with a veteran. Swagger and Ziggler would make an awesome team, if The Late, Great, Mr. Perfect was still alive he would've been incredible as a manager to these two since their characters are similar. I feel as if Rey and Batista would be good as a full-time tag team. This is just to benefit the tag team situation, and my opinions, would help out a lot in my view.

 

[Thom]

Or how about WWE Luck Of The Irish where all matches feature interference from Hornswoggle in some way?

I could honestly see this happening at some point haha, it seems inevitable!

Back on topic, I agree with pretty much everything that has been said, what with Bragging Rights being the second PPV this month, you know that it's pushing it a bit too close. That said, I am looking forward to this one, mainly because it's not just three of the same gimmick match throughout the night, more so because it's something new. Yes, however, I don't even mind the fact that they are overusing the gimmick matches, or that there are too many a year-it's definitely the names that are getting me. Never mind, I'm still enjoying it enough to keep watching, so they they must be doing something right!

 

[hhhfan14]

I reckon they should go back to brand-exclusive PPV's also, at least then we saw feuds last longer, title reigns last longer, and we didn't see the same people in the matches for 3 PPV's running, yeah I recall back in 2004 when Eddie Guerrero may he rest in peace was the WWE Champion we saw him main event JD and GAB in his feud with JBL, but they built it up exceptionally well, plotted it out in the right way, and, as much as I dislike him, Cena was the same when he feuded with Edge in 2006, don't like his character or when he wrestles but Cena was gold in the feud with Edge.

MAY I PLEASE HEAR THIS AGAIN? that is ur answer, either as u said switch ppvs to 8 to 10 a year, or go back to the Raw has a ppv, Smackdown/ECW have a PPV, back and fourth, and throw in the big 4, Survivor Series (SvR), Wrestlemania, Royal Rumble, and SS as all three shows meeting up 4 times a year, becuse then you do have time to let wrestlers heal, play awsome storylines, and let the plot thicken over 2 months, and also this will give more time to the underused superstars, and, hey if need be share both Raws and Smackdowns PPVS with ECW if you dont have enough card space, becuse then you overall have the card filled, and you will be able to see the younger guys get a bigger chance to shine on the show, ETC Miz, Morrison, MVP, Ziggler, those guys, and i know, they get TV time, but if they do this then they will be able to shine these guys up faster and get them where they need to be.

 

[gobdachamp]

Tyler you are so right. We hate Cena because we know how unrealistic he is (and how fake he is). But the kids love the idea of a Superman like character.Cena is getting boring now and I think he needs a completely new gimmick but Vince won't change anything because Vince McMahon loves the kids!

 

[The Gribbler]

I really don't think that less pay per views is the answer, I have said it before and I will say it again, brand exclusive pay per views are the way to go. It gives the WWE the time to build up feuds on each brand for the pay per view without sacrificing the number of pay per views each year.

Vince wants as many PPVs as possible, it makes him more money, but they are rushed and shitty...so if we had brand exclusive PPVs then they would have 6-8 weeks to build for that shows pay per view without having 6-8 weeks gap between pay per views...

Just My Opinion

 

[The Brain]

Damn I thought this was going to be a thread about Owen. "I tried to be a nice guy."

Anyway on to the topic. I'll try to keep it short as I have discussed this before. I would like to see a mid 90's style ppv schedule. Have one ppv per month. Five would be big events that would last three hours (four for mania). The rest would be two hour shows at a slightly lower price. Not all the talent would have to appear on every ppv. Think back to October 1996. Shawn Michaels was (the only) champion. He was not even on the ppv. The Undertaker vs. Mankind in the buried alive match was the main event. Instead of forcing a feud with Shawn WWF decided to give us a suitable replacment as a main event. Shawn was kept fresh and the fans did not tire of him. Going back to this format would give us our monthly fix while keeping talent from getting stale.

 

[666_The_Game_666]

Seems like WWE rush the PPVs that arent apart of the Big 4. its like 3-4 weeks we get a PPV and they just run the same feuds into it. Big Show and Cena ran from WM to like Extreme Rules this year thats a good few months and even when Edge and Cena had their match at Backlash Show costed Cena the title. it all began with the In Your House themed PPV back in the 90s they just were the same thing with a extra title i mean you could of just called them D-Generation X and Rock bottom and drop the in your house after the 1st year of it. I remember watching The Monday Night War dvd and Bishoff said when he bumped WCW PPVs up WWE did. I mean 12 PPVs a year is to extreme with the era of WWE were in cos they repeat the same things to often and it makes the PPV scene very stale

 

[RicSpade]

I really like all the opinions so far, glad I made this post...

Moving on to the discussion the first problem with doing brand specific PPV is that Smackdown isn't even on a prominent channel anymore, I know people who doesn't have MynetworkTV and there only chance of seeing Smackdown stars is via internet and whatever matches from superstars. Even if you have a big main event like Undertaker vs Jericho vs Batista vs Mysterio vs Punk in a 3 cage of death most people won't watch it cause they don't really know some of the new stars.

Lets look at bragging rights right now the big 7 on 7 had to change 5 of the competitors because most of the talent isn't at main event level yet. Really who is Eric Escobar to people just because he is dating Vicky? that doesn't mean you are worth a main event yet kid. or Drew McIntyre just cause HBK and HHH praise his work he should be in the main event? No way! This is why established guys like R-Truth and Matt Hardy and Finlay are in the tag now, Matt has been here for a decade and R-Truth has been around longer than good ole Dolph Ziggler, and of course Finlay they now have more experience and more power to the team, and with the edition of the Hart Dynasty it helps try and build them better then they had been by losing to Cryme Tyme 4-5 times.

I don't mind all the PPVs if you keep a feud going for a while, but it gets stale when you keep the same wrestlers going through giant matches to outdo the last month. I remember the days when HBK lost to Sid, HBK the next month beat the hell out of Sid for his mentor, HBK beats Sid, Sid and HBK go at it one more time. There was heat there, same thing with HBK and Nash from back in the day or even HBKs return when he fought HHH I mean these were all well done feuds.

Well hopefully we will see some depth in storylines soon, but before I part did someone really use the Summerfest joke in this thread?