Edge - The Overrated "R" Superstar

[Suneeboy]

At the Royal Rumble Edge became a 7 Time World Champion. Edge now has more title reigns than HBK, Jericho, The Undertaker, Hulk Hogan, and Stone Cold to name a few.

Since winning the first Money In the Bank Ladder Match, Edge has been put over as the "Ultimate Opportunist", and has ran with this by winning his matches in classic screw job fashion. Edge rarely if ever gets a clean win in a championship match, and in one on one situations against big names, it is almost expected for him to lose unless it is a gimmick match that gives it a No DQ premise. I understand that heels are supposed to use certain tactics to get wins to keep them over as a heel with the fans, but Edge has gone overboard in my opinion as to how much a World Champion should cheat to win.

Now on to my main point which is Edge is completely overrated and is not that good of an in ring performer in comparison to his main event peers, and of the Legends. Edge's move set consists of punch, kick, rest hold, impaler, spot, spot, spot, and a spear. Edge in the ring is very mediocre, but two main things that keep him around are his awesome promos and his unique look in relation to the "traditional main event wrestling look" (see Hulk Hogan, John Cena, Macho Man, Austin, HHH, etc.). I cannot think of an entertaining Edge match that didn't include some stipulation that made the match No DQ. Edge does not carry matches (see matches with the Undertaker, HHH, and Hardy), and in my opinion does not deserve to be mentioned along with the all time great main eventers, especially those who have multiple title reigns as he does. He is more of a really good upper mid carder on the same level as Ted Dibiase or Curt Henning.

Edge is not a credible champion in my eyes because he can ONLY win by cheating, and has cheated to win the title every time, so how can it be stated that he is a strong champion, and him carrying the strap is good? Going over Edge isn't something that's difficult to do, and I feel he is the weakest of all the Former World Champions currently still employed by the WWE excluding the ECW Title and CM Punk. Especially as of late. Since he's been involved with Vickie he is more annoying than ever, and it is quite frankly enough because he is overrated and in my opinion has very weak title runs. If Edge isn't overrated, where does he rank with the all time greats? Where does he rank with the HoF'ers? Where does he rank with Current Main Eventers like Cena, HHH, Orton, etc.? I think he is one of the weakest champions of the past decade, and he isn't worthy in my eyes to be called a 7 time champion. I can go on and on, but to not get too lengthy in the first post I'll leave it at this for now. Edge - The Overrated "R" Superstar.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

At the Royal Rumble Edge became a 7 Time World Champion. Edge now has more title reigns than HBK, Jericho, The Undertaker, Hulk Hogan, and Stone Cold to name a few.

High-five for greatness! Now if only he'd bring back a special limited edition 10 second pose to seal the deal of being better than all those other names.

Since winning the first Money In the Bank Ladder Match, Edge has been put over as the "Ultimate Opportunist", and has ran with this by winning his matches in classic screw job fashion. Edge rarely if ever gets a clean win in a championship match, and in one on one situations against big names, it is almost expected for him to lose unless it is a gimmick match that gives it a No DQ premise. I understand that heels are supposed to use certain tactics to get wins to keep them over as a heel with the fans, but Edge has gone overboard in my opinion as to how much a World Champion should cheat to win.

So.. you're upset because he's actually doing what he's suppose to, in following through with his character and gimmick of being an "Ultimate Opportunist"?

Now on to my main point which is Edge is completely overrated and is not that good of an in ring performer in comparison to his main event peers, and of the Legends. Edge's move set consists of punch, kick, rest hold, impaler, spot, spot, spot, and a spear.

Another moveset argument? Really? REALLY?! Come on.. you left out a lot of top quality moves Edge does, and replaced them with the word "spot".

But instead of arguing about Edge not having a great moveset, why don't you try and explain to me who does have a great moveset? Because I assure you, you'll come back to the same list of stuff, only changing out signature moves and finishers for one another. (oh, but add about 10 more "spots" onto Jeff Hardy's moveset)

Edge in the ring is very mediocre, but two main things that keep him around are his awesome promos and his unique look in relation to the "traditional main event wrestling look" (see Hulk Hogan, John Cena, Macho Man, Austin, HHH, etc.).

Wait. So Edge isn't unique? He's just a carbon copy of guys like Hogan, Cena, Savage, Austin & Triple H.? So either you just said he's just as great as they are, or all of them suck as much as you believe Edge does.

I cannot think of an entertaining Edge match that didn't include some stipulation that made the match No DQ.

Edge v. Chris Jericho (Raw - 2005)
Edge v. Kurt Angle (KotR - 2001)
Edge v. Undertaker (WM 24)
Edge v. Triple H. (Raw - 1999, GAB - 2008)
Edge v. Rob Van Dam (Raw - 2001, 2007)
Edge v. William Regal (see their feud - 2002)
Edge v. John Cena (see their feud - 2006)
Edge v. Shawn Michaels (Royal Rumble 2005, see their feud - 2004-05)
Edge v. Chris Benoit (2004/2005)

I could seriously go on and on. All of those opponents, are matches he's had without using gimmicks.

Edge does not carry matches (see matches with the Undertaker, HHH, and Hardy)

Wait, wait.. whoa.. did you just say Hardy? Would this be the spot-loving, non-exsistant wrestling moveset Jeff Hardy.. or the Plainer than vanilla, couldn't get an ovation until he slept with my girlfriend Matt Hardy?

As far as the others. Seems to me the Undertaker wasn't doing anything other than coasting until his feud with Edge gave him new life.

and in my opinion does not deserve to be mentioned along with the all time great main eventers

That's because he's better than they are, silly.

especially those who have multiple title reigns as he does.

Well, he did surpass all those names you mentioned earlier.. so yeah, I agree he deserves to be mentioned above them now. Greatness rules!

He is more of a really good upper mid carder on the same level as Ted Dibiase or Curt Henning.

An upper-mid-carder.. .. who's.. .. carried an entire Brand on his back since 2007?

Edge is not a credible champion in my eyes because he can ONLY win by cheating

So we're back to arguing about how he's actually doing what his gimmick and character claim he'd do.

and has cheated to win the title every time

Ultimate Opportunist ring any bells? Better yet.. what does that term mean to you?

so how can it be stated that he is a strong champion, and him carrying the strap is good?

Well, for starters he got you to discuss him. So that's a plus. He's getting great crowd reactions everywhere he goes. I'd say that's a 'W' in the win column. He's single handedly helped to elevate others around him, be it mid-carders like Hardy(s), Punk, or an entire list of jobbers.. (Chavo, Hawkins, Ryder) to helping refresh the tired vets in Taker, Triple H., and Shawn Michaels.

Going over Edge isn't something that's difficult to do

Yet whenever someone does it, it almost single handedly makes their careers better, or refreshed. (see C.M. Punk)

and I feel he is the weakest of all the Former World Champions currently still employed by the WWE excluding the ECW Title and CM Punk.

Sounds like you have a 2nd thread idea. My guess is he'd still top out near the top, more than the bottom. I mean, who else has won 7 World Championships in the span of 3-4 years???

That's quite actually amazing if you ask me.

Especially as of late. Since he's been involved with Vickie he is more annoying than ever, and it is quite frankly enough because he is overrated and in my opinion has very weak title runs.

Wait.. so you're buying into giving him heel heat, and helping to promote exactly what the company wants you to do.. all because you still think he's overrated & weak?

Does that even make sense?

If Edge isn't overrated, where does he rank with the all time greats? Where does he rank with the HoF'ers? Where does he rank with Current Main Eventers like Cena, HHH, Orton, etc.? I think he is one of the weakest champions of the past decade, and he isn't worthy in my eyes to be called a 7 time champion. I can go on and on, but to not get too lengthy in the first post I'll leave it at this for now. Edge - The Overrated "R" Superstar.

While Edge doesn't quite yet rank as high as Hulk Hogan, or even Steve Austin or the Rock as far as selling stuff.. he's already accomplished far more than any of them have inside the ring, through Championships and accomplishments.

In closing, Edge is anything but overrated. If anything, I'd say he's only just now coming to par with being rated equally and deservingly. He's been in the Main Event for a couple years now. He's getting the top storylines on Smackdown, all the time, and he's winning Championships, solely to help push younger talent, or refresh older talent.

Edge is like the Mother Teresa of the W.W.E., only with less morals and different values.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Now on to my main point which is Edge is completely overrated and is not that good of an in ring performer in comparison to his main event peers, and of the Legends. Edge's move set consists of punch, kick, rest hold, impaler, spot, spot, spot, and a spear. Edge in the ring is very mediocre, but two main things that keep him around are his awesome promos and his unique look in relation to the "traditional main event wrestling look" (see Hulk Hogan, John Cena, Macho Man, Austin, HHH, etc.).

Is your next thread going to be about how overrated Andre is? Man...that guy had quite a barrage of moves in his arsenal...complete with punch, kick, big boot, headbutt, lay around on the mat, stand around, and sit down on opponent.

He didn't have the traditional main event look, either. That dude was gargantuan...kind of like Golga or Kurrgan. He was just a blob of goo. At least people like Show and Khali are somewhat athletic looking.

He did cut awesome promos though. So, I guess that makes Andre credible.

Edge is not a credible champion in my eyes because he can ONLY win by cheating, and has cheated to win the title every time, so how can it be stated that he is a strong champion, and him carrying the strap is good?

Dude, do you really want to see Edge go over somebody cleanly? You might if you really fancy falling asleep while watching wrestling programming. Edge is a heel. Heels win by cheating. Edge is a good heel. Thus, Edge cheats a lot. If Edge is a good heel and cheats a lot, then he must be getting titles out of that. Thus, YOU hate Edge and WWE has manipulated the response it desires out of you.


Edge...like Andre...is in the main event because people care. If Taka Michinoku was in the Main Event, people would switch over to Lifetime to watch Golden Girls re-runs. And Taka Michinoku has a much better set of moves than Andre.


The fact that you even made this thread about him being overrated is a contradiction in and of itself.

 

[Suneeboy]

High-five for greatness! Now if only he'd bring back a special limited edition 10 second pose to seal the deal of being better than all those other names.

What makes Edge better than those other names? Are you basing it solely on title reigns or is that dry sarcasm? I'm talking about overall performance along with accomplishments. As well as how the performance enhanced or devalued the said accomplishment. World Champion A is not equal to World Champion B simply because they both won world titles. There are degrees to all champions.

So.. you're upset because he's actually doing what he's suppose to, in following through with his character and gimmick of being an "Ultimate Opportunist"?

I'm by no means upset, but he is overrated. If he is so good with his character and his gimmick where is the development? Why is it the same exact thing? Where is the innovation? If he is so good then he should be constantly evolving...which he isn't. He is running the same storyline but still being billed as a dominant champion which many people buy into. I however do not.

Another moveset argument? Really? REALLY?! Come on.. you left out a lot of top quality moves Edge does, and replaced them with the word "spot".

What are some top quality moves Edge does? Signature move or otherwise? Put someone through a table? Hit someone with a chair? Remove turnbuckle padding? Hell Vince can do that, does he have a great moveset? If he does have a top quality moveset, name some actual wrestling moves that he does. But you can't because he doesn't. Its punch, kick, rest hold, arm drag, punch, irish whip, clothesline. Give me Chris Jericho, HHH, Randy Orton, or hell even Batista or Cena. At least I'll see more than 4 actual moves. Boring.

But instead of arguing about Edge not having a great moveset, why don't you try and explain to me who does have a great moveset? Because I assure you, you'll come back to the same list of stuff, only changing out signature moves and finishers for one another. (oh, but add about 10 more "spots" onto Jeff Hardy's moveset)

Your question is who has a "great" moveset. Well the obvious answer is great wrestlers have great movesets. Edge is not great. The greats are HBK, Jericho, HHH, Undertaker, Kane....in the past there was The Rock, Angle, Ric Flair, Brock Lesnar, and many more. Do you want me to go on? You can't honestly say Edge has a better set of in ring moves than any of those guys?

Wait. So Edge isn't unique? He's just a carbon copy of guys like Hogan, Cena, Savage, Austin & Triple H.? So either you just said he's just as great as they are, or all of them suck as much as you believe Edge does.

I didn't say Edge isn't unique, I actually said he is unique. He has a very distinct look that is hard to duplicate and one that we rarely see in the main event. Also I didn't say Edge sucks, I think Edge is entertaining, and a decent performer (but so is Santino). BUT Edge is overrated, and that's what my point is.

Edge v. Chris Jericho (Raw - 2005)
Edge v. Kurt Angle (KotR - 2001)
Edge v. Undertaker (WM 24)
Edge v. Triple H. (Raw - 1999, GAB - 2008)
Edge v. Rob Van Dam (Raw - 2001, 2007)
Edge v. William Regal (see their feud - 2002)
Edge v. John Cena (see their feud - 2006)
Edge v. Shawn Michaels (Royal Rumble 2005, see their feud - 2004-05)
Edge v. Chris Benoit (2004/2005)

I could seriously go on and on. All of those opponents, are matches he's had without using gimmicks.

Good point, all good matches. But are they great matches? Have they made their place in history? I don't think so. They don't compare to the real all time great matches with real champions.

HBK vs. Angle WM21
Macho Man vs. Steamboat WM3
HBK vs. Cena WM23
Hogan vs. Rock WM18
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart WM10
HBK vs. Flair WM24
HBK vs. Cena Monday Night Raw (After WM23)
The Rock vs. HHH Iron Man Match (Judgement Day)

I can go on and on. Edge does not have great matches that will go down in history. They pale in comparison to the other great matches that we have had the privelage to see. He has had some good gimmick matches that will be remembered, but the gimmick is what put the match over not his in ring ability or his ability to CARRY a match.

Wait, wait.. whoa.. did you just say Hardy? Would this be the spot-loving, non-exsistant wrestling moveset Jeff Hardy.. or the Plainer than vanilla, couldn't get an ovation until he slept with my girlfriend Matt Hardy?

The thread is about Edge being overrated, not Hardy. But yes Hardy did carry the matches. That doesn't mean Edge didn't do a good job, because he did...but its not that big of a deal...the guy is overrated.

As far as the others. Seems to me the Undertaker wasn't doing anything other than coasting until his feud with Edge gave him new life.

So what is your point? Edge didn't carry the Undertaker, The Undertaker carried Edge. Who cares what Taker was doing before or after their matches? The Edge feud allowed for some good story telling and it involved the title, who wouldn't want to put on a show in that scenario? That still doesn't take away the fact that Edge is overrated.

That's because he's better than they are, silly.

Ok you aren't making a point...WHAT legend is he better than and why?

Well, he did surpass all those names you mentioned earlier.. so yeah, I agree he deserves to be mentioned above them now. Greatness rules!

Are you basing it on World Title Reigns? Well then let's list every World Champion as an all time great. Your logic doesn't make sense (if you are using that as your arguing point)

An upper-mid-carder.. .. who's.. .. carried an entire Brand on his back since 2007?

I wouldn't exactly say carried. Ratings went waaaaaay down when he jumped in the main event scene, and ratings mean everything. They are only picking back up now because they are implementing fresh storylines and developing new characters.

So we're back to arguing about how he's actually doing what his gimmick and character claim he'd do.

I already discussed this in the first portion of my post.

Ultimate Opportunist ring any bells? Better yet.. what does that term mean to you?

So you're going to put him down on the same page as other 7 time champions, because he used the ultimate opportunist angle to win his titles? We'll put him down with the greats when he puts on a great match and wins the strap cleanly as a heel or face. But he can't do that because he isn't good enough, so they have to find another way to put him over. He is good, but he is not great. Edge is overrated.

Well, for starters he got you to discuss him. So that's a plus. He's getting great crowd reactions everywhere he goes. I'd say that's a 'W' in the win column. He's single handedly helped to elevate others around him, be it mid-carders like Hardy(s), Punk, or an entire list of jobbers.. (Chavo, Hawkins, Ryder) to helping refresh the tired vets in Taker, Triple H., and Shawn Michaels.

Yeah he is good. But he is overrated...my previous points made support my statement. You aren't making a case as to why he isn't overrated, all you are doing is picking out parts of my post.

Yet whenever someone does it, it almost single handedly makes their careers better, or refreshed. (see C.M. Punk)

Uhm last I checked CM Punk was in the same EXACT position this year as he was last year...the mid card.

Sounds like you have a 2nd thread idea. My guess is he'd still top out near the top, more than the bottom. I mean, who else has won 7 World Championships in the span of 3-4 years???

That's quite actually amazing if you ask me.

If you are basing it solely on amount of title reigns then yes he is at the top. But I am not. I am basing it on everything and using title reigns as a reference point to other greats. He is near the bottom. What former champion still employed is he better than (sans CM Punk)? I'll give you Hardy as an arguing point just to give you a headstart, but you won't go further than that because he's not better than any of them.

Wait.. so you're buying into giving him heel heat, and helping to promote exactly what the company wants you to do.. all because you still think he's overrated & weak?

Does that even make sense?

What point are you trying to drive home with that statement? You didn't address anything with that one, please clarify.

While Edge doesn't quite yet rank as high as Hulk Hogan, or even Steve Austin or the Rock as far as selling stuff.. he's already accomplished far more than any of them have inside the ring, through Championships and accomplishments.

In closing, Edge is anything but overrated. If anything, I'd say he's only just now coming to par with being rated equally and deservingly. He's been in the Main Event for a couple years now. He's getting the top storylines on Smackdown, all the time, and he's winning Championships, solely to help push younger talent, or refresh older talent.

Edge is like the Mother Teresa of the W.W.E., only with less morals and different values.

If championships elevate him above Hogan, then you win...but Championships alone don't elevate you above someone. If that's the case Flair would be the undisputed king of professional wrestling, and Raven would be the greatest Hardcore wrestler ever with his 27 Hardcore championship reigns. Please don't use championships as a sole measuring stick. (If I am interpreting your last statement wrong then I retract). Also, Edge like Mother Teresa? What? I'll dismiss that as humor and won't comment on it. Edge is overrated.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Edge is exactly who he is. He cheats to win titles hence the gimmick "The Ultimate Opportunist." He carried Smackdown when it was at its lowest point and has had great feuds with Batista and the Undertaker. I can't clearly define his wrestling style as it's not high-flying but it's not exactly technical. He's good at getting heat and it doesn't matter how he gets it. He helped CM Punk by him cashing the briefcase. He can continue to help mid-carders on Smackdown such as Kennedy and MVP.

 

[oneandonly]

At the Royal Rumble Edge became a 7 Time World Champion. Edge now has more title reigns than HBK, Jericho, The Undertaker, Hulk Hogan, and Stone Cold to name a few.

Since winning the first Money In the Bank Ladder Match, Edge has been put over as the "Ultimate Opportunist", and has ran with this by winning his matches in classic screw job fashion. Edge rarely if ever gets a clean win in a championship match, and in one on one situations against big names, it is almost expected for him to lose unless it is a gimmick match that gives it a No DQ premise. I understand that heels are supposed to use certain tactics to get wins to keep them over as a heel with the fans, but Edge has gone overboard in my opinion as to how much a World Champion should cheat to win.

Now on to my main point which is Edge is completely overrated and is not that good of an in ring performer in comparison to his main event peers, and of the Legends. Edge's move set consists of punch, kick, rest hold, impaler, spot, spot, spot, and a spear. Edge in the ring is very mediocre, but two main things that keep him around are his awesome promos and his unique look in relation to the "traditional main event wrestling look" (see Hulk Hogan, John Cena, Macho Man, Austin, HHH, etc.). I cannot think of an entertaining Edge match that didn't include some stipulation that made the match No DQ. Edge does not carry matches (see matches with the Undertaker, HHH, and Hardy), and in my opinion does not deserve to be mentioned along with the all time great main eventers, especially those who have multiple title reigns as he does. He is more of a really good upper mid carder on the same level as Ted Dibiase or Curt Henning.

Edge is not a credible champion in my eyes because he can ONLY win by cheating, and has cheated to win the title every time, so how can it be stated that he is a strong champion, and him carrying the strap is good? Going over Edge isn't something that's difficult to do, and I feel he is the weakest of all the Former World Champions currently still employed by the WWE excluding the ECW Title and CM Punk. Especially as of late. Since he's been involved with Vickie he is more annoying than ever, and it is quite frankly enough because he is overrated and in my opinion has very weak title runs. If Edge isn't overrated, where does he rank with the all time greats? Where does he rank with the HoF'ers? Where does he rank with Current Main Eventers like Cena, HHH, Orton, etc.? I think he is one of the weakest champions of the past decade, and he isn't worthy in my eyes to be called a 7 time champion. I can go on and on, but to not get too lengthy in the first post I'll leave it at this for now. Edge - The Overrated "R" Superstar.

Edge is definitely not overrated in any sense of the word. He is at least top 15 of the decade. Maybe top ten. I will start by answering your questions.

Where does he rank with Current Hall of Famers - Well let us take a look at some current five HOFers that we all know

Hulk Hogan - Clearly Hulk Hogan is one of the best, if not the best in wrestling history. He carried the company through the largest period in wrestling history. He made the WWE what it is today. He has 12 world titles. When he comes out the crowd goes wild every time. People might say he couldn't wrestle but he definately knew how to work a crowd. There is no way Edge can stack up to Hulk.

Steve Austin - Austin is another superstar who is always mentioned as being one of the top two or three ever. He helped the WWE in the Attitude Era. He also has one multiple championships. He also was a part of the biggest and greatest feud ever with his boss. Another one Edge cannot compare with.

Ric Flair - 16 world titles.WOOOO. No way Edge can even begin to stack up to Flair.

So maybe isn't hall of fame worthy. But you go on to ask where Edge ranks with current main eventers.

Cena - If Cena is the major face in the company then Edge is definitely the major heel. Cena has beaten Edge and Edge has beaten Cena. In my opinion they are definitely even in the ring, and no one can compare to Cena on the mic but Edge is up there to.

HHH - Triple H has been main eventing for a long time. Edge is in his 4 year I think. It has taken Triple H I believe 10 years to win 12 titles, it took Edge 4 to win 7. You can't use the argument about Edge's not meaning anything because the same can be said about alot of HHH's reigns as well.

Orton - Orton does performs some of the most devious acts in wrestling today. To kicking people's fathers to kicking the boss. Randy Orton is also possibly the biggest heel in the business. But Edge has more championships. He "retired the Undertaker". I think it is safe to say he has the edge over Orton.

You stated that Edge has become more annoying since he was paired with Vickie. It is safe to say he is doing his job. Edge is a heel, it is his job to make us, the fan, hate him. If he makes people come on a wrestling forum and post bad things about, do you think he will care, no he will smile, because this tells him he is good at what he does. Why do you think he cheats so much. So the hatred for him will build. As the fan we think, "Man I hate Edge. He always cheats. This week I hope he gets his ass beat." Vickie has allowed us to do this even more. There is a reason he always has gimmick matches. Because Vickie knows how to get her man a victory. She knows what Edge's strengths are. She knows that if he has a TLC match odds are he will walk out the winner, with his title. Every week, if we are true fans, we should tune in to see Edge lose, and when he wins, we should want to keep tuning in to see him get beat. And if he keeps cheating to win, then he is doing his job. That doesn't make him overrated, that makes him good.

 

[The Todd]

suneeboy, I laughed at most of your two posts, but two points stuck out like a sore thumb. Edge has no moveset, but Ric Flair does? So chop, chop, punch, chop, figure four is a better moveset? HHH of knee smash, clothesline, spine buster pedigree? I could make a case for every wrestler there is. Face it, WWE style is punch, kicks and irish whips before a couple of signature moves and a big finisher.

Second, Edge vs Taker at Mania 24 was not a great match. but HBK doing everything possible to get a half decent showing out of Ric Flair was?

I won't pick out your other flaws cos the others have already done that.

WWE want you to hate Edge, you hate Edge, they have done their job.

Edge is one of the best story tellers in the business and was the top heel for the last two years but has recently been overtaken by the awesomness that is Randy orton.

 

[Suneeboy]

Is your next thread going to be about how overrated Andre is? Man...that guy had quite a barrage of moves in his arsenal...complete with punch, kick, big boot, headbutt, lay around on the mat, stand around, and sit down on opponent.

He didn't have the traditional main event look, either. That dude was gargantuan...kind of like Golga or Kurrgan. He was just a blob of goo. At least people like Show and Khali are somewhat athletic looking.

He did cut awesome promos though. So, I guess that makes Andre credible.



Dude, do you really want to see Edge go over somebody cleanly? You might if you really fancy falling asleep while watching wrestling programming. Edge is a heel. Heels win by cheating. Edge is a good heel. Thus, Edge cheats a lot. If Edge is a good heel and cheats a lot, then he must be getting titles out of that. Thus, YOU hate Edge and WWE has manipulated the response it desires out of you.


Edge...like Andre...is in the main event because people care. If Taka Michinoku was in the Main Event, people would switch over to Lifetime to watch Golden Girls re-runs. And Taka Michinoku has a much better set of moves than Andre.


The fact that you even made this thread about him being overrated is a contradiction in and of itself.

If I present an argument your response should be to counter the points that I've made in the argument if you disagree. Not to present new arguments. If you want to discuss Andre's career start one in the Old School Wrestling thread and I'll be happy to comment.

I do not deny that Edge is an entertaining performer. He is undeniably that. Does he play a good heel? Of course he does. But how does he compare to others with similar accomplishments? My personal opinion is Edge is overrated, if you can prove to me in your opinion that he isn't then I welcome you to. Here is my top 10 heels of all time in the WWE. Although they played the face role they had magical heel runs and really took it to new levels.

(Not in Order)

HBK
HHH
The Rock
Kurt Angle
Hulk Hogan
The Undertaker
Yokozuna
Sgt. Slaughter
Ted Dibiase
Kane

Edge is not better than any of them, but he is lauded as one of the best heels in a long time. He isn't the top heel in the company in my opinion. Orton and Jericho are better than him, and if HHH gets a heel run again and is still on SD! with Edge you will see how a real heel does it. He is the benefactor of a downturn in wrestling. Please state specifically why Edge isn't overrated and how his career compares to other main eventers past and present...because that's what I'm comparing him against. I'm comparing him against...history, not against the weak SD! talent pool that we've witnessed in the past 2 years.

 

["Cool Guy" Jensen]

I understand where you are coming from about how Edge won his 7 World Championships, but I'm not sure if he should be considered overrated. Edge's 2nd World Championship win was part of his ''Ultimate Opportunist'' gimmick, but it wasn't necessarily a screw-job. Cena did the F-U to R.V.D. while Edge hit Cena with the belt and got the pin. That was one of his more ''fair'' title wins. Edge's 6th World Championship at Survivor Series win wasn't much of a screw-job either, if you look at it from the point of view that Jeff Hardy cost Triple H the title and Edge just picked up the scraps. Even, his title win at Royal Rumble was a bit of a screw-job, but it was one that Edge had nothing to do with.

Edge has the resume that shows that he is not overrated and has the talents and skills to succeed in the WWE, but over the past few years... they have not been showing it. If Edge didn't have the Money in the Bank briefcase, Lita, the Edge-Heads, or Vickie with him, would he have been a 7-time champion? Probably not, maybe a 3 or 4 time champ. The way that Edge is being booked as the ''Ultimate Opportunist'' is making people feel that he is overrated. Which is a shame as he used to be one of the most respected men in WWE.

Hopefully, soon WWE will abondon this whole ''Ultimate Opportunist'' thing and actually allow Edge to win the championship cleanly. Although, his gimmick is helping him in a way that adds more ''oomph'' to his resume, it's also killing his momentum in the long run because he will be thought of as a transtional champion.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

If I present an argument your response should be to counter the points that I've made in the argument if you disagree. Not to present new arguments. If you want to discuss Andre's career start one in the Old School Wrestling thread and I'll be happy to comment.

I do not deny that Edge is an entertaining performer. He is undeniably that. Does he play a good heel? Of course he does. But how does he compare to others with similar accomplishments? My personal opinion is Edge is overrated, if you can prove to me in your opinion that he isn't then I welcome you to. Here is my top 10 heels of all time in the WWE. Although they played the face role they had magical heel runs and really took it to new levels.

(Not in Order)

HBK
HHH
The Rock
Kurt Angle
Hulk Hogan
The Undertaker
Yokozuna
Sgt. Slaughter
Ted Dibiase
Kane

Edge is not better than any of them, but he is lauded as one of the best heels in a long time. He isn't the top heel in the company in my opinion. Orton and Jericho are better than him, and if HHH gets a heel run again and is still on SD! with Edge you will see how a real heel does it. He is the benefactor of a downturn in wrestling. Please state specifically why Edge isn't overrated and how his career compares to other main eventers past and present...because that's what I'm comparing him against. I'm comparing him against...history, not against the weak SD! talent pool that we've witnessed in the past 2 years.

Edge is a better heel than Slaughter, Undertaker, and Kane....Out of your list I would put him behind Yokozuna, HHH, Kurt Angle, and maybe the Rock and HBK but that's a stretch. He's the top heel in the WWE along with Randy Orton and has been for two or three years.

 

[Suneeboy]

suneeboy, I laughed at most of your two posts, but two points stuck out like a sore thumb. Edge has no moveset, but Ric Flair does? So chop, chop, punch, chop, figure four is a better moveset? HHH of knee smash, clothesline, spine buster pedigree? I could make a case for every wrestler there is. Face it, WWE style is punch, kicks and irish whips before a couple of signature moves and a big finisher.

Second, Edge vs Taker at Mania 24 was not a great match. but HBK doing everything possible to get a half decent showing out of Ric Flair was?

I won't pick out your other flaws cos the others have already done that.

WWE want you to hate Edge, you hate Edge, they have done their job.

Edge is one of the best story tellers in the business and was the top heel for the last two years but has recently been overtaken by the awesomness that is Randy orton.

I don't hate Edge at all. Edge is fun to watch. Edge does his job well. But Edge is overrated. I am not contradicting myself by liking Edge and saying he's overrated. On a scale of 1-10 I'd give Edge a 7.8 when you stack him up to the HOF's and future HOF's. Others may give him a higher rating, but I won't because I don't think he deserves higher than a 7.8. If you give him any higher in my opinion you are rating him TOO high, and some people probably would rate him higher than a 7.8...but when you really analyze it, he's not a great performer. He is good....damn good at putting on a show...but he is not great, and he is not one of the all time greats. I apologize for not being descriptive when mentioning Ric Flair. Flair's moveset when he is 50 years old is obviously garbage. I'm talking Ric Flair in his prime obviously. Edge is now in his prime, so it is only fair to compare him to others when they were in their prime. Also, wrestling evolves, so what was innovative 20 years ago is no longer innovative. If we look back at Flair's matches we may say he didn't have a good moveset, but back then it was spectacular. Michael Jordan jumped from the free throw line in 1985. It was amazing and got a perfect 50 in the dunk contest. Do you think it would get a perfect 50 nowadays? No, because its no longer fresh and innovative. What does Edge bring in the ring that we haven't seen before, that allows him to be in the same boat as other legends such as Flair? Ok he's won 7 world titles, but they are gimmick title runs, not strong title runs like other greats have had.

 

[The Todd]

But if Edge had a strong title run it would demean his character. Vince realises with Edge as a champion he can put over the right superstar as all the audience want to see Edge lose. When he feuded with Cena, during a time Cena was being booed a lot, everyone would cheer him over Edge. CM Punk winning the title by tking advantage of Edge got the live crowd to love it as Edge got a taste of his own medicine.

People say his heat is due to his affair with Lita, but so what? Heat is heat, the live crowd hate him.

I'll admit he gets some cheap titles, the one at survivor series is proof of that and seemed totally pointless, but going into WrestleMania you need your top heel with the belt so the top face (or HHH it seems this time) can take it off him.

 

[GameOver]

LOL he only wis by cheating, Geez never saw that coming from a heel. LOL
Thats what heels do, thats what heels have always done.

Name me one heel that hasn't won titles/title matches without cheating in someway? Very few could be named. Anyway we all know titles don't mean anything now other than who;s the focus on this week.

The whole point is he's the Ultimate Opportunist, that's his gimmick. He has the smarts to know that the easiest way to win is to pick at the scraps of someone else's hard work.

As for overall ability well i'm 50/50 on that. IMO he has the look of a champion and can put on a good match with the right opponent but he's like an oversized cruiserweight he needs people that can do extreme matches like ladder matches, TLC. And his mic work is all over the pace. But the biggest issue is his sidekicks, i didn't mind Hawkins and Ryder as they all looked the same and are actually a pretty good "wrestling" team but the Guererro's are soooooo boooooooooring and highly anoying.

OK I guess that is the point, they do there job. Piss people off enough to keep them coming back in hopes that someone will finally shut them up.

So no i don't think's he's totally overrated, he's not the best there is but he's far from the worst and is still IMO a main event/championship calibur

If you want to put a overrated title on someone, give it to Jeff/Matt Hardy and Mr Kennedy

 

[klunderbunker]

I'd hardly say he's overrated. Edge plays his character better than anyone playes any character in the company. He's the Ultimate Opportunist and he acts like it. How many world titles has he won clean? Off the top of my head I can't think of any and that's what makes his character work. He's never "earned" any of the reigns but no one can do anything about it. That's what evil is supposed to be: you can't stand him and you can't do anything about him and you want to keep watching his matches because you want to see him get what he deserves. That my friends, is a great character.

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

Suneeboy -

I agree with you in the sense of comparing him to the greats. At the moment on the current roster i would rate him quite high, BUT, the way some people talk about him (ahem BigWill ahem) he is overated.

Edge I believe was in his prime when he was in the tag devision with Christian, they are the memorable matches for him that i remember. Edge is a good heel, but he is no where neer the caliber of HHH, Orton, Jericho and even Vince.

To end, I'll state that Edge is a great entertainer but overall compared to the greats of today and the past... he is overated.

 

[My$terio_Fan]

I wouldn't say he is overated since he is really great as what he does, but people go on and on how HHH, Cena, and Batista are always in the mainevent and or have the title but you hardly hear a peep about Edge.

What does this show? A)The IWC loves heel B)Edge is playing his role so good that people don't care he is in the mainevent

Edge is a great heel, and Vickie Gurerro has only helped him. Since Vickie is the GM and Edge's "wife" it makes sence that he is always getting title shot oppurtunities storyline wise. His character of the "Ultimate Opportunist" is helped by his cheating ways at winning the title. And while Edge does have alot of title reigns there usually quick and over with fast.

The people that like to say Edge is overated most likely has a point but when people bring up the fact that for a heel he does get alot of love from the IWC(the opposite of what he should get)the argement is null and void. Generally the IWC always seem to root for the heels(Edge, Orton, ect)just because they get tired of the "good" guys. But when you look at the general public who attend the show's Edge get's mega heat.

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

I wouldn't say he is overated since he is really great as what he does, but people go on and on how HHH, Cena, and Batista are always in the mainevent and or have the title but you hardly hear a peep about Edge.

What does this show? A)The IWC loves heel B)Edge is playing his role so good that people don't care he is in the mainevent

Edge is a great heel, and Vickie Gurerro has only helped him. Since Vickie is the GM and Edge's "wife" it makes sence that he is always getting title shot oppurtunities storyline wise. His character of the "Ultimate Opportunist" is helped by his cheating ways at winning the title. And while Edge does have alot of title reigns there usually quick and over with fast.

The people that like to say Edge is overated most likely has a point but when people bring up the fact that for a heel he does get alot of love from the IWC(the opposite of what he should get)the argement is null and void. Generally the IWC always seem to root for the heels(Edge, Orton, ect)just because they get tired of the "good" guys. But when you look at the general public who attend the show's Edge get's mega heat.

I think the main thing that Suneeboy was getting at is that compared to the other heels we have had in the past and who we have now (Jericho, Orton) he is overated. I dont think anyone can deny Edge is doing what he is meant to well, but compared to alot of other heel characters we have had, he is overated.

I love Edge and am a fan, but i dont see him as an amazing heel that will be remembered for how much heat he got. He'll be remembered for 2 things in my opinion.

1. His title history (which will no doubt grow).
2. His tag history.

He won't be remembered for his heel portrayal like some other guys. Like Jericho i think will be remembered for a lot of things (obviously) but one of them would be how well he plays a heel. I dont think i have seen more heat than what he was getting during the HBK fued.

Edge hasnt got this. Hell, Vicki is a better heel than Edge. As i said in my last post, Edge is rated highly for entertainment value and will be remembered for that, but he is overated as a heel. He is good, but not amazing.

 

[My$terio_Fan]

I think the main thing that Suneeboy was getting at is that compared to the other heels we have had in the past and who we have now (Jericho, Orton) he is overated. I dont think anyone can deny Edge is doing what he is meant to well, but compared to alot of other heel characters we have had, he is overated.

I love Edge and am a fan, but i dont see him as an amazing heel that will be remembered for how much heat he got. He'll be remembered for 2 things in my opinion.

1. His title history (which will no doubt grow).
2. His tag history.

He won't be remembered for his heel portrayal like some other guys. Like Jericho i think will be remembered for a lot of things (obviously) but one of them would be how well he plays a heel. I dont think i have seen more heat than what he was getting during the HBK fued.

Edge hasnt got this. Hell, Vicki is a better heel than Edge. As i said in my last post, Edge is rated highly for entertainment value and will be remembered for that, but he is overated as a heel. He is good, but not amazing.

I agree somewhat I guess. I mean Edge will be remembered for other things but I think the love that the IWC shows Edge is devaluing his heel ability. If you watch the crowd Edge get's just as much heel heat as Jericho(maybe not Orton right now). The general fans still hate him, and while Vickie get's huge amount of heel heat, it just helps the Edge character even more.

But there is no denying Edge is one of the best heels in the business today, and that is why he isn't overated. Edge countinues to get boo's(no matter what for)and him Orton and Jericho are the heels of the WWE. And I think Edge's character also makes it seem he isn't as good as Orton or Jericho. Both Jericho & Orton are very "Strong" heels and Edge is more of the cheat to win, coward heel, so it doesn't seem as he is as "bad" as say Orton & Jericho who are dominating and not just running from everyone.

 

[THE METAL]

i wouldnt say over rated i mean mabey with internet wrestling fans , but regular fans hate him. i mean i went to a wwe event in orlando (full of casual fans) and the crowd chanted "big dumby" i also went to the 08 rumble in ny(smark land)and he was really over so the point being hes over with smarks not marks

 

[truk24]

My problem with Edge is that he doesn't have a known rival. At first most would have thought it would have been Matt Hardy, but that died just as it was created. That storyline is something of a short lived past. Perhaps the WWE should consider CM Punk as a common foe for Edge. Their characters would clash well, and I think their first feud was a sure glimpse in to their possible future feud down the line. Straightedged Superstar v.s The "Rated R" Superstar.

 

[Suneeboy]

I'd hardly say he's overrated. Edge plays his character better than anyone playes any character in the company. He's the Ultimate Opportunist and he acts like it. How many world titles has he won clean? Off the top of my head I can't think of any and that's what makes his character work. He's never "earned" any of the reigns but no one can do anything about it. That's what evil is supposed to be: you can't stand him and you can't do anything about him and you want to keep watching his matches because you want to see him get what he deserves. That my friends, is a great character.

I apologize for not making my primary point as clear as I intended. After re-reading I see where I could have misled some people. Edge is good. But his accomplishments come with asterisks. He is a 7 Time World Champion, but are those credible title runs? Absolutely not. Did he go over in a convincing fashion? Absolutely not. Each time he lost the title, did he lose it and look like all the person needed to do was get their hands on Edge to beat him? Yes. Look at ALL of his World Title runs. They are all a joke. He is a transitional champion who is used to put others over. He is not a dominant champion, and has never had a run like HHH, Cena, or even Orton. His weasle wins are good SOMETIMES, but they devalue his title reign because he can't win without excessive cheating. I can see if it was a low blow, or a chair shot when the ref is out, but ALL of his title wins came in a fashion that ANYONE can do. Anyone can cash in a briefcase after someone got beat up. Anyone can come in at the end of a match and get a pin after hitting someone with a chair (Survivor Series).

Ok so Edge is a heel and heels cheat. However should the so-called "Top Heel" have the most devalued title runs in recent memory? If he is so good why can't he win a match without excessive cheating? Randy Orton doesn't win like that. Chris Jericho doesn't win like that. Kurt Angle didn't win like that. HHH didn't win like that. HBK didn't win like that. Macho Man didn't win like that. Ric Flair didn't win like that. That's why they are better heels than Edge, and that's why Edge is overrated. Edge cannot back up ANYTHING he says. A heel is supposed to talk trash and then in some way shape or form back it up. Yeah they can cheat, but they can't run and hide EVERY SINGLE TIME after they cheat if they are supposed to be a TOP HEEL or THE top heel! If Orton or Jericho came to Smackdown! tomorrow Edge would no longer be top heel on the show. If HHH turned heel tomorrow Edge would no longer be top heel on the show. Hell if Batista had a heel turn and went back to Smackdown! Edge would no longer be top heel on the show. I hope I am making my point VERY clear. Edge is overrated. He will not go down in history as one of the greatest champions ever or a top heel because he championship runs have been very lackluster and transitional, and he is not an all time top heel, because the ultimate opportunist gimmick is just NOT THAT GOOD. It is overrated. Yeah it got him some title wins but they are all a joke and I don't take any of them seriously, because I know once the big title defense comes Edge is going to drop the title like he always does.

Unless Edge has a strong dominant title run as a heel or face he will forever be overrated in my book. He is good, but a LONG way from being great.

 

[The Todd]

My problem with Edge is that he doesn't have a known rival. At first most would have thought it would have been Matt Hardy, but that died just as it was created. That storyline is something of a short lived past. Perhaps the WWE should consider CM Punk as a common foe for Edge. Their characters would clash well, and I think their first feud was a sure glimpse in to their possible future feud down the line. Straightedged Superstar v.s The "Rated R" Superstar.

That's the thing though, Edge doesn't need a known rival. His rivalries are brilliant and everyone puts the babyface over, which is what is needed. An Edge feud is going to involve a cheap title victory, a couple of defences where he cheats to retain, months of his rival getting screwed on Smackdown, before eventually the babyface goes over Edge cleanly. Then Edge moves onto a new feud.

The only thing is Edge plays his part so much better when he is the champion. So for the feud to have proper significance Edge needs the title, but the feud needs to end with him losing the title, and hence you have lots of short title runs.

His current title run will either run out at No Way Out in which he would have a grudge Mania match with Big Show (cos Show can't fit in anywhere else or against anyone else) or it will end with him being pinned cleanly by HHH for the title. But a few months down the line he will get the title back and put over the next babyface champion.

 

[The Todd]

I apologize for not making my primary point as clear as I intended. After re-reading I see where I could have misled some people. Edge is good. But his accomplishments come with asterisks. He is a 7 Time World Champion, but are those credible title runs? Absolutely not. Did he go over in a convincing fashion? Absolutely not. Each time he lost the title, did he lose it and look like all the person needed to do was get their hands on Edge to beat him? Yes. Look at ALL of his World Title runs. They are all a joke. He is a transitional champion who is used to put others over. He is not a dominant champion, and has never had a run like HHH, Cena, or even Orton. His weasle wins are good SOMETIMES, but they devalue his title reign because he can't win without excessive cheating. I can see if it was a low blow, or a chair shot when the ref is out, but ALL of his title wins came in a fashion that ANYONE can do. Anyone can cash in a briefcase after someone got beat up. Anyone can come in at the end of a match and get a pin after hitting someone with a chair (Survivor Series).

Ok so Edge is a heel and heels cheat. However should the so-called "Top Heel" have the most devalued title runs in recent memory? If he is so good why can't he win a match without excessive cheating? Randy Orton doesn't win like that. Chris Jericho doesn't win like that. Kurt Angle didn't win like that. HHH didn't win like that. HBK didn't win like that. Macho Man didn't win like that. Ric Flair didn't win like that. That's why they are better heels than Edge, and that's why Edge is overrated. Edge cannot back up ANYTHING he says. A heel is supposed to talk trash and then in some way shape or form back it up. Yeah they can cheat, but they can't run and hide EVERY SINGLE TIME after they cheat if they are supposed to be a TOP HEEL or THE top heel! If Orton or Jericho came to Smackdown! tomorrow Edge would no longer be top heel on the show. If HHH turned heel tomorrow Edge would no longer be top heel on the show. Hell if Batista had a heel turn and went back to Smackdown! Edge would no longer be top heel on the show. I hope I am making my point VERY clear. Edge is overrated. He will not go down in history as one of the greatest champions ever or a top heel because he championship runs have been very lackluster and transitional, and he is not an all time top heel, because the ultimate opportunist gimmick is just NOT THAT GOOD. It is overrated. Yeah it got him some title wins but they are all a joke and I don't take any of them seriously, because I know once the big title defense comes Edge is going to drop the title like he always does.

Unless Edge has a strong dominant title run as a heel or face he will forever be overrated in my book. He is good, but a LONG way from being great.

But it is because Edge is so different from the other heels that makes him so good. Everyone must know someone in their life who cheats their way to success, be it through contacts or backstabbing other people, and Edge is like this. He is the guy everyone hates in society, and people love to see him get taken down a peg.

He worms his way to a title, uses his relationship with the boss to keep him there, but some "hero" comes and fights through all the barriers and makes things right. It's the classic story, and one Edge pulls off better than anyone else. And in the kid friendly WWE, Edge is your anti John Cena. It works to perfection.

 

[truk24]

What you fail to mention is that with Edge as you explained it is the same old thing. I like the "oppurtunistic" Edge that takes the stage at the right time. At some point his theme to his storylines has to change. The way you made it seem is like some rehashed storylines that Edge goes through every time he is champion. How boring, and it will only lead him to be a transitional champion.

Edge is one of the most gifted men to ever step foot in the WWE ring. His metamorphasis while in the WWE was legendary. The man has literally done it all in the time he has been in the WWE. Edge has been a part of great matches tag, and singles. It seems everything along his path to stardom was perfect except the fact that he doesn't have a solid foe. Hogan had Savage, Austin had Rock, and Hart had HBK. Who does Edge have? All greats are measured by another who brings out the best in them. Edge isn't above that concept.

 

[The Todd]

Okay, good point. Well I think Edge's best feud, the one that clicked right, was with John Cena, and as I said I see them as the opposites of each other for the kids in terms of role models, these two would have an unbelievable feud. I would like them to get back on the same show and start it up again but it may not happen.

Edge has shown, although briefly, that he can play other roles than just the ultimate opportunist. His crazed heel role before Summerslan with Taker was probably his best character yet, but that seeme donly suited to a feud with Taker. His opportunist gimmick works. It gets a lot of heat from the live crowd and that's all that matters.

Look at HHH and Batista. They haven't changed their characters in years, and whilst i hold a dislike for both of them for different reasons, their gimmicks get pops from the live crowd. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.