Dolph Ziggler = HBK?

[George Steele's Barber]

WWE screwed up with Ziggler from day one. Just his name alone screams no draw, no interest. They put him with Vicky and he had that awful, stupid pointless title reign of less than one full show. Now they give him a case that gets guys the title in the silliest way possible. He can barely speak during a promo, his voice doesn't carry, and his swinty eyes don't catch the crowd. He takes some cool bumps bit he also occassionally reminds me that pro wrestling is fake with his over the top acrobatics, selling, and sometime even jumping before an opponent grabs him for a move.

HBK on the other hand had a long build up with some really great matches and rivalries on this way to WM 12. The build up to 12 was cheesy but I think most people could relate to his story of filling a lifelong childhood dream. HBK may have acted cartoonish in the ring at times but over a long year career in WWE not everything is going to be 4 stars.

I'm not saying it's all Ziggler's fault. WWE screwed up his rise and circumstances have not been in his favor. But overall he really should not be in compared to HBK. It's not fair to anyone involved.

 

[Enlightenment]

Dolph is the future but comparing him to arguably the greatest ever in hbk this soon is not fair. Dolph needs time to master his craft and figure out who he really is and what he wants to be in this business. Once he does that when its all said and done we might be able to be compare him with hbk but until then this comparison in ridiculous

 

[Mustang Sally]

But overall he really should not be in compared to HBK. It's not fair to anyone involved.

That's how I see it, too. Of course, we don't know what goes on backstage and at Creative meetings, but it seems to me that HBK was first seen in the 80's as nothing more than a tag team partner.....and by his own sweat and effort, he separated himself from the pack....and from Marty Jannetty.....and turned himself into a force to be reckoned with. That irreverent personality of his, along with some terrific wrestling skills, brought him to the top....and returned him to the top even after taking a couple of years off. He possesses the "it" factor that makes a star; it's hard to define but easy to see.

Dolph, on the other hand, is strictly a made-for-WWE creation of Vince McMahon and the writers. I've never seen a mid-level performer pushed as hard as him; I've always had the impression that McMahon has the attitude: "Who makes stars? I make stars!" and that Dolph Ziggler has been a primary beneficiary of that largesse.

And you know what?....it works! As far as I can see, a lot of fans think Dolph is terrific simply because they see him so much that they figure he must be great. (If all this is true, then McMahon is right, huh?)

But a comparison of Dolph Ziggler to Shawn Michaels is not a good one. Dolph works hard, but just isn't in the same ballpark as HBK.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

Sigh... I was just talking to Chris Cash about Ziggler last week, and pretty much brought up 90% of what's in that editorial. Oh well, I guess it must have sparked some inspiration in him.

Nobody is a carbon-copy of another wrestler. Even with guys like Goldberg and Ryback, you're going to find differences. Ziggler and HBK haven't had similar careers, and that makes it incredibly difficult to compare them from the early going. But I do think, in terms of personality, ring work, and promo skills you can see early HBK in current Dolph Ziggler. And if I may be so bold, I will say that Ziggler is better right now, than Shawn was at the 4 year mark of his WWF run. He had just superkicked Marty, and was starting a solid run at the IC title. Feuds with Davey Boy, Bret Hart, etc. He was good, and put on some damn good matches. But Ziggler is at the point after 4 years (we're not counting Spirit Squad or the time in between), where he's "must see" material on every single PPV.

What is comes down to is, where will Ziggler be in 10-15 years? Will he still be around, and will he have made an impact? Because I'll be honest, while HBK is one of my all-time favories - and deservedly so - a big part of his "best of all time" title comes from the last 3-4 years of his career. Before the Undertaker matches, before his feud with Chris Jericho, he was great. One of the best main eventers of the last decade. He was at Triple H level, I think, in a lot of people's minds. But it was what he did as a legend, and an established veteran, that put him over the top as the alleged "best of all time". That's just my opinion, so don't burn me at the stake for it or anything.

THe argument is pretty pointless, without hindsight. Nobody knew Shawn would be the best ever, during his mid-card title feuds. Have this conversation again in ten years. Maybe.

 

[KingShaw3]

I think a lot of folks are always quick to say someone is the next someone that came before them. Comparisons or running parallels between a guy from today, and a bad ass from yesterday can be great for some guys. However, they shouldn't be taken too seriously. No one is truly and definitively the next anyone else. Does Ziggler have some similarities and share some traits with the Heartbreak Kid? Absolutely. Does me make me think of Mr. Perfect from time to time? For sure. But he's not either of them and never will be. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Ziggler has started down an HBK-type character path recently. He's 'showing off', he's stealing the show and now girlfriends too. Does anyone remember HBK's old shirt that said, FRONT: Hey wus boy? BACK: After I beat you, I'll take your girlfriend. ?? Ziggler has a shirt like that and is doing the same stuff, but he isn't Shawn. He's Dolph.

This is Doph's character as I see it. He used to be a big fish in a small pond at college or whatever. He's come here to WWE and 'stolen the show' aka puts on the best matches, etc., and is ready to be afforded opportunities like people like Cena get. However, he's been getting passed up, and Dolph being a bit of a self-absorbed narcissist has become very bitter. He's the type that will do anything and manipulate anyone to get ahead. He's always been the quarterback/captain of the wrestling team type of guy who gets all the girls. And it's always been so easy because he's so athletically gifted. However, he gets whiny and always thinks he should have his way, and is childlike in that since. He's the guy who thinks he's great, so he claims to be the best. He doesn't know he's the best for sure, but is one of the guys with blind confidence in himself. He'll prove himself right when he cashes in the briefcase. Then we'll see the nest level of his character unfold.

By the way, Shawn's evolution to legend status was unlike anyone else's. He was a bad ass whose great career got cut short in 1998. People looked back on his matches the next few years and said, "wow he was incredible, what an unbelievable in-ring performer". But then he came back in 2002. Without skipping a beat, and was probably even a better "storyteller" in the ring than ever before. He went on to put on some of the best matches and feuds for the better part of the next decade. Shawn's rebirth, 2002, was when he launched into top legend status for me. HBK is my favorite and I waited for him to come back for years, and heard so many doubters. That first match back vs. HHH was incredible. That was the night I knew HBK wasn't just my favorite, but one of the greatest ever. Just my take on your HBK legend question.

 

[KillSteenKill]

I think the closest thing to HBK has been Edge and I don't even think Ziggler is as good as Edge was. Honestly, I think The Miz has it more then Ziggler. He's less in the ring but tons better in the personality and promo work and probably works harder then Ziggler to get better.

 

[wrestlingfan]

The closest person to HBK like the poster above me said was Edge, The rockstar persona, the promos, the look. Edge was like the HBK of the 2000s but with a much darker gimmick.

Other than their wrestling skills, Ziggler seems more of a Mr. Perfect/Flair guy more than HBK. Out of WWE, the person that's always semed like the new HBK to me was John Morrison, and that comparison is only in look and gimmick.

Dolph can be on HBK's level if he develops the It Factor (which is just an internet term for Charisma/Overness). Right now the guy still screams mid-carder to me.