Do You Think A Mosque Should Be Built Near Ground Zero?

[Jack-Hammer]

A story that's been making headlines involves a New York community board voting 29-1 to allow the building of a Mosque roughly 600 feet from where the World Trade Center fell.

Sunday, a protest was held against the building of what's being called a "Mega Mosque". The protest was organized by Stop Islamization of America (SIOA). It kicked off at noon and rallied support behind efforts to stop construction of the Cordoba House, which is a 15-story facility that project leaders claim will promote tolerance and serve as a platform for people of all backgrounds to come together. A spokesperson for the Cordoba House project claims "This proposed project is about promoting integration, tolerance of difference and community cohesion through arts and culture. Cordoba House will provide a place where individuals, regardless of their backgrounds, will find a center of learning, art and culture; and most importantly, a center guided by Islamic values in their truest form - compassion, generosity, and respect for all."

Opponents of the Muslim-led project, however, say building an Islamic center so close to Ground Zero would be demeaning and offensive to the 2,976 victims of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Some even said the construction of the Cordoba House would mark a victory for those who sought and still seek to terrorize the American people. At the rally held on Sunday, SIOA Co-Founder Pamela stated, "Ground Zero is a war memorial. Ground Zero is a burial ground. We are asking for sensitivity."

Plans are underway to derailing the construction efforts by having the site in which the Cordoba House would be built on declared a landmark. Knowing this, opponents of the Islamic center are pressing the Landmarks Preservation Commission to vote in favor of granting the building landmark status. Aside from being a 152-year-old building, the old Burlington building also had a piece of one of the hijacked airplanes crash into it. In another statement Pamela Geller said on Sunday, "We are going to sue the U.S. Government to get a designation of war memorial status."

In addition to SIOA, other groups standing against the proposed Cordoba Center include the Freedom Defense Initiative, the Staten Island Tea Party, Shalom International, the Unity Coalition for Israel, 911 Families, and Faith Freedom International.

The Cordoba Center, meanwhile, is a collaboration between the American Society for Muslim Advancement and the Cordoba Initiative – both founded by Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who preaches in a mosque twelve blocks from Ground Zero.

Born in Kuwait and educated in England, Egypt, and Malaysia, Rauf holds a Bachelor of Science in Physics from Columbia University in New York and a Master of Science in Plasma Physics from Stevens Institute of Technology in New Jersey.

I can see both sides of the issue to some degree. Whether politically correct or not, those responsible for the destruction of the Twin Towers were extremists of Islam and there are literally millions of practicing Muslims around the world and here in the United States that consider the men responsible to be heroes. I'll never forget news footage showing Muslims in foreign countries cheering while burning an American flag. While these men obviously didn't represent Islam as a whole, they did and do represent a significant number that believe the United States is a symbol of evil and an enemy to Allah. I can understand how the building of an Islamic temple so close to the site of the worst terrorist attack in U.S. history, an act perpetrated by Muslims, could affect people in a negative way.

The other side is that not all Muslims are radical extremists. Many are hard working, intelligent, peace loving men and women that have good feelings towards the United States and/or are proud to be living within the confines of the country. In short, not all Muslims want to see the United States burned down.

So, what do you think? Do you believe it's inappropriate to construct a Mosque so near to Ground Zero or do you think some people are being overly sensitive and/or using this as a type of justification for bigotry towards Muslims?

 

[klunderbunker]

Why in the world would it not be allowed there? The problem is racial stereotyping. I can't think of a single Muslim that I know either through them being famous or knowing them personally that condoned the New York attacks. The people that blew up the buildings were extremists and do not reflect what Islam is all about. I may not believe what Muslims believe and I think they are wrong about a lot in religion, but I refuse to believe that anything more than a tiny fragment would be pleased with what happened in New York. The problem is the backlash that comes with the idea of Muslims worshipping near there. I have no problem at all with it, but some and likely a lot of people will though. Most of those people would be in New York or have had loved ones die in the attacks. But no, I would have no problem with a mosque being near Ground Zero.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Who fuckin cares man? I can't understand why this is even news. The people who comitted the atrocity are no more practicing muslims than the KKK are practicing Baptist Christians. Only buck toothed dumbasses would have a problem with it, and they should pull their fuckin head out of their ass.

 

[thepalaceprince]

I can see how people could find this insensitive because while most muslims probably arent a bunch of radical nutjobs hell bent on destroying the evil empire that is the united states. the people that were behind the attacks were muslims tho and i can see how building a mosque would upset alot of people. personally i dont give a shit if they build a mosque or not id prefer they put a sonic there but thats only because sonic is delicious and i dont plan on ever setting foot in a mosque. my concern with them building a mosque is that people mite decide that "they" attacked us and now we should return the favor. People are stupid and the last thing i would want to do is give the idiots a reason to do something dumb. I dont have a problem with a mosque being built there but im not sure they should in fear that a situation could escalate.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I don't think all Muslims are terrorists, or even a majority of them. That being said, you'd be being incredibly stupid to not be able to understand where the families of these victims are coming from. I don't believe all of those people are practicising Islamophobia, which I know has been thrown about, they're just simply looking at in terms of a group of Muslims killed their relatives and friends in the name of Islam, and nearby they're building a place where you can WORSHIP that religion, and God? I mean, personally I have nothing against Mosques being built, and don't think all Mosques are breeding grounds for terrorists, but these people have been through enough, it being so close is like a kick in the teeth almost. There's a reason this has caused so much media coverage - it's a big thing, that many feel very strongly about.

 

[antfarm612]

This is absolutely rediculous, and anyone who opposes the Mosque being built is clearly Islamophobic. There's no way around it. You clearly believe that the terrorists behind 9/11 are representative of all Muslims, otherwise, it would not be a problem. That's like saying it should be illegal to build a church on a reservation because of what Christians did to the Natives, anyone who suggested that would be laughed.

I don't think all Muslims are terrorists, or even a majority of them. That being said, you'd be being incredibly stupid to not be able to understand where the families of these victims are coming from. I don't believe all of those people are practicising Islamophobia, which I know has been thrown about, they're just simply looking at in terms of a group of Muslims killed their relatives and friends in the name of Islam, and nearby they're building a place where you can WORSHIP that religion, and God? I mean, personally I have nothing against Mosques being built, and don't think all Mosques are breeding grounds for terrorists, but these people have been through enough, it being so close is like a kick in the teeth almost. There's a reason this has caused so much media coverage - it's a big thing, that many feel very strongly about.

I understand where they are coming from, and it is Islamophobia. I'm not saying it isn't reasonable for them to be Islamophobic, it is understandable after what they have went through. But anyone looking at this objectively has to see the absurdity in this. If they built the Mosque ON ground zero, I could see how that could be taken as a provocation. But NEAR it, where do we draw the line of what is too close?

Does anyone else find it extremely ironic that the FREEDOM Defense Initiative is against the building of the Mosque? Yeah, freedom for white Christians.

 

[HBK-aholic]

This is absolutely rediculous, and anyone who opposes the Mosque being built is clearly Islamophobic. There's no way around it.

How was my post anywhere near being Islamophobic? Like, seriously, I did everything possible to clarify that was NOT the case. At the end of the day, as I said previously, do you think it's fair to have a building where you go to worship the thing which killed these people? I mean, sure, we can argue that's not really Islam, and it's true in my mind, but I also haven't read or studied the thing, or had anyone I know killed in 9/11. The people opposing this aren't doing so on the grounds that all Muslims are terrorists, they're opposing how insensitive it seems.

You clearly believe that the terrorists behind 9/11 are representative of all Muslims, otherwise, it would not be a problem.

Again, how did my post in any way give you this impression? You can be against the Mosque being built without being racist or Islamophobic.

 

[a0161613]

Wow, I didn't know about this.

While I can see why there would be opposition to it because 9/11 is undoubtedly a raw subject to so many who were affected by it, there is no way it should be stopped it the authorities give permission for it.

But a group called SIDA sounds like anti-Muslim version of the KKK and that kind of aggressive right wing politik.

 

[Deexter Jorgan]

I think that anyone should be allowed to do as they please, The people who caused havoc that day where not Muslims.

Speaking as a Muslim myself I understand how people feel but its absolutly pathetic not allowing a community to build something that is peaceful, since 9/11 and the 7/7 attacks people have reacted to Muslims in the most insulting manner, people need to get a grip and heres why.

1/Suicide was the main provocator of the 9/11 attacks and also the reason why so many people died, suicide is not condoned by any religion and means hell.

2/All this talk about having a 1000 virgins for committing one of the worst attrosotis on the planet is not what the muslim religion promotes.

I dare any person protesting that mosque to pick up a quran just as ive picked up a bible many a time to better understand christian beliefs, this world needs to keep an open mind otherwise we will have nothing left.

Let these people have their mosque and show that the american public have grown instead of taking moral decentcy back a step, I know families are hurting but its not a reason to hate a society that has done nothing to you, muslims didnt kill those people extremists did, and the two are not one in the same.

 

[TheAnimal]

The extremists that carried out attacks have their messed up view of the west, refusing the building of a mosque is going to put the people on a level with them.
Islam should not be punished due to the actions or idiot extremists. If a mosque is to be built, people should not try to prevent this, if it was Muslims trying to do this with a church being built there would be a complete outcry about it.

People use the word terrorist, but then try to class a whole religion with it because of a lack of understanding basically. Islamophobia needs to stop in that sense.

You can understand that there may be initial shock due to the loss of lives there but they would understand that it is not every muslims fault and they should be allowed to worship.

 

[HBK-aholic]

The extremists that carried out attacks have their messed up view of the west, refusing the building of a mosque is going to put the people on a level with them.
Islam should not be punished due to the actions or idiot extremists. If a mosque is to be built, people should not try to prevent this, if it was Muslims trying to do this with a church being built there would be a complete outcry about it.

People use the word terrorist, but then try to class a whole religion with it because of a lack of understanding basically. Islamophobia needs to stop in that sense.

You can understand that there may be initial shock due to the loss of lives there but they would understand that it is not every muslims fault and they should be allowed to worship.

The issue isn't to stop them worshipping, or to stop Mosques being built, as many people seem to think. The issue is - why so close? We can of course argue at what distance is too close, but obviously this is to many. The issue is - Is this the ONLY place a Mosque can be built? Of course not. Why is it so important to be in this particular spot, when it bothers so many people? It IS insensitive, and it has nothing to do with believing all Muslims are terrorists.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

If it were actaully ON the site i could understand why people would be upset. I mean, they didn't build over Auschwitz so why should they be allowed to build on Ground Zero? To me personally, it would make no difference what building they plan to construct, if it's not something dedicated specifically to the memory of those that died, then it's spitting in the face of everyone who lost a loved one that day.

However, this isn't the case is it? It's not being built ON Ground Zero, it's being built 600ft away from the site. Now, 600ft isn't a particularly long distance, in fact it's probably only, what, a block and a half? (Not that i truly understand what a 'block' is, being British, but still...) And of course, it just so happens that this particular building they're planning on constructing, will be a place of worship for a religious faith, that was apparently the inspiration for the terrorist attack on that city in the first place.

Personally, if i ask Mr. Fancy Pants 'I've got a Degree in everything but common fuckin' sense' Rauf, if he really didn't expect this sort of retaliation to his proposal, and he said he didn't, i'd have to beat some sense back into him.

Why has he chosen this spot of all places anyway? In all of the United States, what has influenced him to suggest 'i think we should build it 2 blocks away from Ground Zero in New York' in the first place?

"Let's go to the place where they actually have a decent reason to not like our people and try to get them to accept us again, based on the principles of understanding and tolerance, when several thousand people were killed by members of our faith who decided not to practice what we preach......."

And this is a guy with a scientific degree people....

Anyway, i'm starting to ramble as i so often do in the Cigar Lounge.

Should it be allowed? Sure, why the fuck not, as long as you're prepared to have stuff thrown through the window maybe once every 2 hours and spend just about every little penny in your budget clearing up graffitti and repairing damage to the place, then crack on. Note, i'm not saying that i condone such behaviour, but that's what's going to happen. You know it, i know it, apparently the only person who doesn't know it, is Mr. Rauf.

 

[antfarm612]

How was my post anywhere near being Islamophobic? Like, seriously, I did everything possible to clarify that was NOT the case. At the end of the day, as I said previously, do you think it's fair to have a building where you go to worship the thing which killed these people? I mean, sure, we can argue that's not really Islam, and it's true in my mind, but I also haven't read or studied the thing, or had anyone I know killed in 9/11. The people opposing this aren't doing so on the grounds that all Muslims are terrorists, they're opposing how insensitive it seems.



Again, how did my post in any way give you this impression? You can be against the Mosque being built without being racist or Islamophobic.

My bad, I didn't mean you as in YOU. I only quoted your post for the bolded part.

The issue isn't to stop them worshipping, or to stop Mosques being built, as many people seem to think. The issue is - why so close? We can of course argue at what distance is too close, but obviously this is to many. The issue is - Is this the ONLY place a Mosque can be built? Of course not.

No, but they're not looking for the ONE place to build a Mosque. They're not going to build that Mosque, and then decide it will be the last Mosque ever built. There probably aren't any Mosques in the area, and they want to put one there so Muslims of the neighborhood have a place to worship.

Why is it so important to be in this particular spot, when it bothers so many people?

Another good question, is why does it bother them in the first place? What about some of the abortion-clinics that have been bombed by Christian extremists? You think the families of the deceased are going to protest a church being built, even ONE block away from the clinic? I don't think so. So it has less to do with the tragedy, and more to do with Muslims.

It IS insensitive, and it has nothing to do with believing all Muslims are terrorists.

Can you explain to me how it is insensitive? Again, would it be insensitive to build a church within six blocks of an abortion-clinic that was bombed? Would it be insensitive to build a church on a reservation? Would it be insensitive for Catholics to build a church within six blocks of an elementary school, given their history of child-abuse?

This is pure irony. Americans that are all about freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion... protesting a Muslim church. How can they look at themselves in the mirror and not see hypocrisy?

 

[gd]

Who really cares? Terrorists and Muslims are not words used to define the same thing, but it appears it's become that way, which is pretty stupid. Obviously there will be people angry over this just to be jackasses, which sucks. As for the families, I can see how they'd have some concern, but surely they should be able to realize how this isn't meant to be offensive in any way, and it shouldn't be taken as such.

 

[Kenny Powers]

I believe we have a first amendment to freedom or religion, speech, and press. I mean there are way more offensive buildings that are near the World Trade Center site besides a mosque. I guess people don't have a problem with porno stores and strip clubs but God forbid a mosque.

That is like being offended by a Buddhist temple being built next to Pearl Harbor. Muslims in general aren't responsible for this. If the heartless idiots in Kansas have a right to protest military funerals, then people should have right to worship anywhere no matter what their religion.

 

[HBK-aholic]

My bad, I didn't mean you as in YOU. I only quoted your post for the bolded part.

I know this, but your post said everyone who believed in a reason not to have the Mosque there was Islamophobic, and I'm showing that isn't the case.

Another good question, is why does it bother them in the first place? What about some of the abortion-clinics that have been bombed by Christian extremists? You think the families of the deceased are going to protest a church being built, even ONE block away from the clinic? I don't think so. So it has less to do with the tragedy, and more to do with Muslims.


Can you explain to me how it is insensitive? Again, would it be insensitive to build a church within six blocks of an abortion-clinic that was bombed? Would it be insensitive to build a church on a reservation? Would it be insensitive for Catholics to build a church within six blocks of an elementary school, given their history of child-abuse?

It bothers them moreso because this wasn't some abortion clinic that maybe 10 people died in, this is THOUSANDS of people dying in something with worldwide repercussions. In the abortion-clinic situation, I'm sure close relatives may possibly dislike the idea, but the action would be no where near on the same scale, which is why so many people oppose this. Now, I'm not naive enough to believe or argue that some of this simply IS Islamophobia, and I aren't condoning that at all. But not all people who are against this believe all Muslims are terrorists.

This is pure irony. Americans that are all about freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion... protesting a Muslim church. How can they look at themselves in the mirror and not see hypocrisy?

It's okay, I'm English .

It's not the protesting of a Mosque, it's just the positioning. If it were truly all about Islamophobia, EVERY Mosque being built would be protested in similar fashion. Instead, it's just this one.

 

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

I don't think it's Islamophobia (if it is then that's totally un-called for). I just think that for the most part, the area near Ground Zero is sacred ground and for the families of those who were killed that's one thing they won't tolerate.

 

[Workshop]

I don't think it's insensitive to the families who lost loved ones on 9/11 in the slightest. Religion is incredibly more broad than radical groups within it; and though it had religious motives, the terrorist attack was ultimately an action between two political groups. Religion is more wide-sweeping than politics; every Latin American country retained the Catholicism Spain brought by means of torture and forced conversion, even after they rebelled from the country.

To ban an Islamic mosque at or near Ground Zero is either the perpetuation of a gut reaction or blatant oversensitivity. Hell, I think a mosque in the spot is a good teaching move; it can be used to help prevent anything like the attack from ever happening again.

 

[Green Thunder]

While i can totally understand families of people killed in 9/11 being against this, I really don't understand why building a mosque near ground zero is that big of a deal. It seems like most of the people against this have this stupid idea in their head that all muslims are responsible for the tragedy, when in reality it was a bunch of nutjobs who have probably never been to a mosque in their life.The Nazis claimed to be christian, would anyone object if there was a church set up near Aushewitz? No. So I really don't see why the mosque is treated any different. And for the problem of proportion, How close is this getting set up anyway? would anyone care if someone set up a church there? No. I just don't get why this is such a big deal for people whose loved ones hadn't died there.

And another thing, for those people who think that the area around ground zero is sacred ground, how far around it is sacred? And does the area of the mosque penetrate it? If not, i really don't see why you are arguing this.

 

[Amarillo del Bosque Verde]

I didn't know about this at all...and btw this is my first Cigar Lounge post so please cut me some slack.

Yeah this should be allowed. Islamic people have gotten shit thrown at them since 9/11. Most of them are just good natured people. If they were to stop this being built then that just shows what this country has come to.

And the SIOA can fuck off along with the KKK and the nazis

 

[TheAnimal]

The issue isn't to stop them worshipping, or to stop Mosques being built, as many people seem to think. The issue is - why so close? We can of course argue at what distance is too close, but obviously this is to many. The issue is - Is this the ONLY place a Mosque can be built? Of course not. Why is it so important to be in this particular spot, when it bothers so many people? It IS insensitive, and it has nothing to do with believing all Muslims are terrorists.

The thing is, near is a subjective term, how near are we talking? How can you say what is near or not, it is the opinion somebody, when you use terms like near, obviously one persons opinion differs from another.

I think it could maybe help them to heal/get over the losses if the mosque were to be built in the sense that they can easily differentiate terrorism and islam.

If it has nothing to do with believing muslims are terrorists then how is it insensitive? Terrorism and Islam are clearly different, yet in your opinion the mosque shouldnt be built. The people who carried out the attacks may have had the muslim faith, and try to claim it to be in the name of the religion or in the name of action against the west. But anyone knows that it is a ridiculous extreme interpretation of the religious text, which should not be associated with the correct interpretations of it.

Terrorism thrives on peoples fear and how they feel about possible threats, even going so far as to alienating sections of society. Would denying the building of a mosque not reinforce this further? People become terrorists, make bombs etc and carry out attacks in the name of Al Qaeda, with no links to them what so ever. They get 'inspired' by the message so the mosque issue could contribute to this.

 

[Nev]

"Stop Islamization of America (SIOA)."

That is racist, for one. For two, the notion that you can't build a mosque near the WTC site because the victims were attacked by muslim extremists is silly. There's a difference between Islamics and extremist islamics. (The media really has to fucking stop with the "jihadists" references in regards to terrorism, that's an insult to muslims and can promote homegrown terrorism). The protests are done by a group of Christians/Jews that simply hate Islam and everything it stands for probably. It was a failed lawsuit from the beginning and shouldn't have been brought to the NY "Community board".

The only reason why they see America as an enemy to "Allah" is mainly beacuse we support Israel. Plain and simple. (and the fact that we have military bases on very holy lands in the middle east). They think we were born to rage war against islam since our birth. I think it's bull seeing how we funded some of those extremist groups in the 80s. I can't believe we didn't see the problems funding and defending Israel back 60 years ago would do. Now it seems like the u.s. will have problems with the middle east for a long, long time to come. There are new extremists being born every day in seemingly endless war. Sigh.

 

[HBK-aholic]

The thing is, near is a subjective term, how near are we talking? How can you say what is near or not, it is the opinion somebody, when you use terms like near, obviously one persons opinion differs from another.

This is a good point, and I can't give specific measurements as to an answer. However, the fact there are some people being very upset and angry about this specific place, and have people who sympathise, shows me that this specifically is too near for many.

I think it could maybe help them to heal/get over the losses if the mosque were to be built in the sense that they can easily differentiate terrorism and islam.

If it has nothing to do with believing muslims are terrorists then how is it insensitive? Terrorism and Islam are clearly different, yet in your opinion the mosque shouldnt be built.

If it had something to do with believing all Muslims are terrorists wouldn't EVERY Mosque be criticised and fought against in this way?

The people who carried out the attacks may have had the muslim faith, and try to claim it to be in the name of the religion or in the name of action against the west. But anyone knows that it is a ridiculous extreme interpretation of the religious text, which should not be associated with the correct interpretations of it.

Seeings as you were talking about being subjective earlier - this is subjective. How do you know what the 'correct' interpretation of Islam is? Even those who follow the less extreme view believe in different interpretations, for example, the headscarf women wear. There is no 'correct' interpretation of any book, and definitely not a religious one.

Terrorism thrives on peoples fear and how they feel about possible threats, even going so far as to alienating sections of society. Would denying the building of a mosque not reinforce this further? People become terrorists, make bombs etc and carry out attacks in the name of Al Qaeda, with no links to them what so ever. They get 'inspired' by the message so the mosque issue could contribute to this.

I don't think an argument for ANYTHING should ever be 'doing the opposite might inspire terrorism', do you?

 

[Razor]

Yes. For two reasons.

1) We're AMURICA. First Amendment guarantees the right to freedom of expression, including freedom of religion. Sorry that they're Muslim, but following Islam is still completely legal in America.

2) The terrorists who attacked the World Trade Center on 9/11 were Muslim, sure. But they were radical Muslims. So radical, in fact, that their form of Islam wasn't even followed during the Medieval Era. I'll explain, if you allow me.

The Medieval Era is thought of by everyone as a time of few freedoms and lots of killing. The Catholic Church killed any non-Catholics (including Christians who weren't Catholics, Jews, and Muslims). They believed women were dangerous unless their manner of dress left their figure completely concealed, they smelled of manure, and were completely unclean. Why? Because a even remotely attractive woman might drive a man (especially a monk, a man of God) into lustful thoughts, just as Eve did to Adam in the Garden of Eden.

How about the Muslims? Oh, I don't know. They were using the Middle Ages to completely invent Algebra and relearn everything that we forgot when the Roman and Greek Empires dissolved. Their empire, which basically spanned the area between Europe and China (i.e. Pretty damn large) and would have included more if not for Charles "The Hammer" Martel, was renowned for being rich and having unheard of rights for women. They couldn't vote, I don't think at least, but they were still allowed to walk around without smelling like shit. Which is a plus when European women are considered skanks and ungodly if they didn't.

Oh, and religion. Yeah...they allowed complete religious freedom. They required a small tax on all non-Muslims, but when you compare that to outright beheading, I call it complete religious freedom.

As you can see, those Muslims who flew those plans into the Twin Towers were in no way representative of Islam as it is for...oh, about 700 years. Maybe 800. Depends on when Islam was founded by the Prophet Muhammad. I wanna say 600s, but I completely forgot.

To say that Islam is a hateful religion based off of those pilots alone is like calling every Christian today a blood-hungry murderer because our ancestors killed a lot of non-Christians 1000 years ago.

Peaceful religion, peaceful worshipers, and completely loyal to the United States. Why shouldn't they get their mosque again?

EDIT: Yeah...juggling three different time periods in my head makes it hard to keep track of specific dates.

 

[m6usin786]

Why do people think it is always muslims that are behind the 911 bombings. tbh it is just a bunch of a stupid people against america.