Do you consider The Rock and Undertaker as the most classy no politics?

stonecoldhell

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Do you consider The Rock and Undertaker as the most classy no politics?
I just wounder what you guys think, they have a rumour that they are classy and did the job.

But I think Stone Cold was better, he didn't do any politics, and had better matches then both of them.
 
Dude, what is it with you and these three legends. Lol!

IMO Undertaker is the most successful wrestler to reach the top and not be caught using politics, before or after he reached it. We all know of the times
Austin used his pull to not face Lesnar, and him and Hogan not wanting to job to each other.
Rock, I haven't heard of many reports about him using politics except for when him and Shawn Michaels were booked to feud with each other, and Rock didn't want to face Michaels, cause he felt Michales tried to hold Rock and others back during the attitude era. I like Rock, but he looks like the type of guy that had no issue using his pull to get what he wanted during his run.
Undertaker not using Politics is one of the reasons he is one of, id not the most well respected legends in the business.
 
Are you kidding me? Stone Cold was nothing but politics. He downplayed how over Jeff Jarrett was and refused to even have a match with him. And don't even get me started on how he just brushed aside Lesnar like he was nothing.

The Rock straight up politics his way into everything.

Undertaker may be the only one on this list that's okay, and even then I'm not sure it's true. I'm sure he used his namesake to put himself over on Smackdown for all these years, and I'm even more sure he pushed his weight around on some of the WrestleMania matches.
 
Another one of these? Do you lay awake in bed all night thinking of ways to troll us? I'm not calling you a troll because you believe different things, you just seem to wanna take down Rock and Taker for whatever reason and it's old man :p

Stone Cold is notorious for using backstage politics, I definitely could see the Rock doing the same thing. And I mean, Taker was king of Smackdown for years...I doubt we can find a single wrestler who was as over as these three, who didn't use their starpower to get what they want. CM Punk did it and he wasn't their level! Cena did it against Nexus. Orton cries about things until he gets what he wants. I just don't see your vendetta against Rock and Taker :p
 
Where to begin picking this apart...

Taker is as political as ANYONE... but he has the tenure with the company, level of success and "bad ass" level to do pretty much whatever the hell he wanted back stage and has had for many years. Wrestler's Court is the most political concept there is and who was the "judge"? Yep Taker... He had a crew same as Shawn did that all got tattoos... and all those guys were "looked after" by the WWE for a long time. Sure most end up released but most still get work from WWE and Legends deals... the Bone Street Krew was as important as the Kliq and the Harts and their alumni all ended up in pretty strong positions... JBL for example took over from Taker in charge of the "court" once Taker was off the road full time... guys like Savio Vega ended up in booking positions in TNA, some like Yoko and Crush are dead now but were highly respected... no one played politics with the BSK. He's like the college professor with tenure who can basically bang his students, not do any work and as long as he doesn't get in major trouble legally, not be touched... if you mess with "that" guy, you're generally gonna lose cos he can do whatever is needed to see you leave before he does... Taker perhaps hasn't used that power to that extent, but there ARE people blackballed from the business on his say so... one was even his best man once!!!

As time went on Taker of course became political, he began to pick and choose opponents and stuck to the same guys, wrestling 4 guys in 6 years is proof of that. But in all fairness he only really used that "stroke" in these later years, when it was more about prolonging his career. He put up with a lot of crap opponents over the years so stored up some "passes" in my book. He is also someone who would go to bat for others, like after the screwjob... Foley quit but Taker made damn clear to Vince that if it EVER happened to him or anyone else while he was around, Vince wouldn't be walking out of the room on a broken ankle...

As for Rocky he too knew the politics game from an early point, growing up as the grandson of a promoter and son of a WWE performer meant, like Randy Orton they had access to a lot of talent who "mattered" from childhood. People like Vince, Jake, IRS, guys who were around when he debuted and were in WWE with their dad would remember them far easier than some new talent they may have met once and thus more of a connection. It's why 2nd and 3rd gen stars get on in the biz quicker... veterans today will remember Barry Windham and IRS, some will have worked with them and known Bray and Bo as kids for example. In 1996, I can imagine a lot of veterans being very impressed with Dwayne as a package and that "damn, this kid used to sit on my knee...so I'm gonna help him".

Also "the Samoans" as a group of families had a way with the business that many have spoken about, even on WWE roundtables. Hayes made reference to guys like Afa and Sika basically being "in the crowd" and relatives of Peter Maivia who got a break through his influence, Same for Haku/Tonga Kid and the others... Rocky will have known that, it's no coincidence that Rikishi was pushed at a similar time to him and that the Uso's and now Reign's push began in earnest when he was a part of the show again...one of his few appearances during his long hiatus was to put Umaga over with the "shrivelled monkey penis" promo... sure it was making fun of him... but if you're Eddie Fatu and going to Mania, and the biggest star in the business shows up just to diss you... then that's getting the rub... that he was his cousin was the reason for it...

They do for themselves and their family and if they can help another member of the extended family, they do it without hesitation. That's why Rocky will probably only come back to put Reigns over now...

That makes it easier for them to get access to pitch ideas, for ideas to be "taken on board"... The Rocky Maivia stuff was Vince, Dwayne went with it knowing it was dross but when the time came he would have been able to get in front of Vince far easier than Austin had it when he was The Ringmaster... you can even imagine the conversation... "We go way back Vince, let me try it." and that being enough... of course it worked. Austin used the power more than some, but he'd also been badly burned by the business with WCW and how he was treated. He was perhaps more highly strung and insecure and also had a legit concern over his neck and his "limited shelf life", could he have handled things better at times...yes, he admits that but doesn't mean he was wrong... just coulda done things better. Guys like Trips and Shawn and arguably Cena, Orton, the NWO and the like have done it more to suit their own ends or cos they can.

Once you have that kind of access to Vince, even if it's cos he remembers you as the little kid or your merch has just bought him a new toy...you will use it and as Rock's career boomed in Hollywood the politics will have grown... now Vince goes to Dwayne, not the other way round (to Taker to to an extent), he says who he fights, if he shows up, what he does and how much he gets paid... if he doesn't like it, he walks as he did the night after Mania... after all he has 20m plus on a movie contract compared to the 5 tops he gets for a WWE stint... he's gonna make sure he can get both done... so if that means a squash over the Miz rather than a 40 minute brawl with Brock... so be it... he's not taking less cash to do it.

There is no one in wrestling or ANY company who doesn't play politics in some way. Every office in the world has it, who the boss is friendly with, who does extra, who's shagging who, percieved slights and petty dislikes.. All come into play in wrestling too... the one who tries to make out they are above it is playing the most calculating game of all.
 
Are you kidding me? Stone Cold was nothing but politics. He downplayed how over Jeff Jarrett was and refused to even have a match with him. And don't even get me started on how he just brushed aside Lesnar like he was nothing.

The Rock straight up politics his way into everything.

Undertaker may be the only one on this list that's okay, and even then I'm not sure it's true. I'm sure he used his namesake to put himself over on Smackdown for all these years, and I'm even more sure he pushed his weight around on some of the WrestleMania matches.

Ok you may be right. Yes I read that Undertaker screwed DDP. :p I did read it on google.

Most top stars did a hell of a lot politics. Almost everyone.

but what I've heard, Austin never did any politics...
 
but what I've heard, Austin never did any politics...

Are you a fucking idiot?

Austin walked out on the company. TWICE. Once because of the whole Brock Lesnar thing, and once because of potentially having to job to Jonathan Coachman.
 
They all play politics, nobody is innocent. Austin didn't like being used in mid card feuds like with Jarrett or in 2002. Taker never liked ddp and didn't like others and sort of created his own clique, he didn't get along with lesnar back in 02 and didn't like cm punk during their first feud. Rock is also someone who's played politics in his return, getting his own dressing room. Rock never liked hbk. The rock also got in vince's ear back in 04 to go over Brock at a house show when Brock was champ that caused brock to realize he had to leave. Everybody in wrestling plays politics, that's the only way to be successful
 
Do you consider The Rock and Undertaker as the most classy no politics?
I just wounder what you guys think, they have a rumour that they are classy and did the job.

But I think Stone Cold was better, he didn't do any politics, and had better matches then both of them.

Every wrestler who can uses politics or their influence to get what they want in this industry. Stone Cold Steve Austin being one of the best at doing it. So I would be curious as to why you don't think he didn't.

As for having better matches, well that your opinion. But I await your next thread on the subject of Stone Cold, Undertaker and The Rock.
 
Surely none of these are no politics.

rock uses his pull all the time, calling in favours when he needs em.
taker uses them more recently, to get a spot at mania every year. Although he probably deserves it these days.
Stone cold often threw hissy fits and played on his attitude era heroics to get things his own way. Refusing to put over Brock. Etc etc.

Probably the classiest, "no politics" wrestler from the attitude era is Kane.
Although outside the ring, he is literally into politics more than anyone.
I can't think of a time when Kane has refused to do something or used his pull to get what he wants.
 
From all the stories I have heard and only including Stone Cold, Rock, Taker like you mentioned in the original post....

Undertaker used the least politics compared to the other 2. Other people have already pointed out Stone cold/Rock's stuff they did. I am not saying Taker didn't do anything. But he sure as heck did less than the other 2. That is a fact.
 
I'm surprised that no one mentioned The Rock's most recent stint. Despite being the beneficiary of getting the win over a returning Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania he refused to do the same for John Cena. Rock demanded to get the WrestleMania victory first AND go on to win the World title before doing the job.

The truth is ALL wrestlers use politics. Especially once they reach the top. It's called protecting your spot.
 
I'm surprised that no one mentioned The Rock's most recent stint. Despite being the beneficiary of getting the win over a returning Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania he refused to do the same for John Cena. Rock demanded to get the WrestleMania victory first AND go on to win the World title before doing the job.

To be honest, I can kind of forgive Rock winning the title at WM28. That was essentially an apology Wrestlemania. WM27 was so incredibly horribly bad, with that horribly botched main event, that WM28 was going to have to be about giving the fans what they wanted, and audibly, they wanted The Rock over Cena.
 
Shawn Michaels was the biggest douche ever.

I don't think anyone can say something against that, he was a jerk that brought it personal, not just a wrestling-view but personal.
 
Everyone who makes it big probably has resorted to manipulating the behind-the-scenes politics at some point. Now, not everyone is a Hulk Hogan or Kevin Nash, but we'll never really know who was that bad and what might have been circumstantial.

I don't really blame Goldberg for not wanting to do anything with Jericho because at that point, Jericho was a midcarder who was often presented as cowardly and too weak to win cleanly while Goldberg was at the top of his game. In retrospect, everyone underestimated how good Jericho would be though as a main eventer and now everyone criticizes Goldberg for being so closed minded about it.
 
Surely none of these are no politics.

For sure. In this topic, we've read many examples of political shenanigans from performers who were previously considered to be free of them. To that end, I wonder if any of them are politics-free. It could be that a bunch of wrestlers who reached high levels did so with a minimum of political maneuvers, but if you spoke to people on the inside, you'd be surprised to learn about some of the machinations of entertainers we always believed to be clean.

Of course, that's the key; you'd have to find insiders who really know....and are willing to impart the information. Employees of Vince McMahon seem to be under a perpetual gag order about revealing inside stuff.....and it's notable that they keep their mouths shut even after leaving WWE. With so many corporate employees who give tell-all interviews after leaving their place of employment.....including Hollywood personalities......you wonder why the pro wrestling industry remains so closed-mouthed about this kind of thing.

But juicy stories sometimes do emerge, and we keep hearing rumors (which often turn out true) about how Stone Cold screwed this guy or The Rock betrayed that one. If it happens in organizations like General Motors, Enron Corp. and the Boy Scouts of America, why wouldn't it happen in World Wrestling Entertainment?

I doubt there's anyone in WWE that hasn't used his power and influence within the organization to get what she/he wanted somewhere along the line. If that move damaged another performer....well, that's business.
 
I think in the Goldberg case the criticism is more that he believed his hype too soon to be calling those kind of shots. It wasn't his call to make on Jericho and the value of the feud... Goldberg didn't have even as long in the business as Jericho himself, much less the guys who did have that level of power to call their shots. Bischoff allowed it not wanting to upset the applecart and in doing so inadvertently cos WCW one of the major talents who turned the tide. It's disingenuous for Bischoff to say "I had no idea what Jericho would become..." as he had let Austin, Triple H and Foley walk the exact same way and seen how that turned out. Bischoff shouldn't be judged TOO harshly, he was fighting fires on all sides on a corporate and talent level... to him Goldberg was on top so he got his way, Jericho wasn't so he could walk if he didn't like it... it wasn't a battle he needed to fight and he didn't fight it later with the Radicalz either. After Jericho though, he should have seen it coming and actually done something, but arguably his power was so diluted by that time he couldn't have kept them if he wanted to.

As to Mustang's point about gag orders, people USED to speak out, but in the main they tend to tow the WWE line now. The problem so many have is that whether they were WWF or not, all the IP linked to their heydays is owned by that company. Notice how a Raven or Shane Douglas are airbrushed out of the Monday Night Wars docs? or how Goldberg was a footnote rather than a whole "chapter"? How guys like Honky Tonk Man or Piper who are now once again on not so great terms get removed from the WWE game last year?

If your career was made in either the WWF, WCW, ECW or AWA or any of the territories basically Vince now owns that legacy... if you're EVER gonna make a cent off it through appearances on WWE TV, Licensing/Shirts, Video games it's gonna be Vince's call... if you talk about stuff he don't want you talking about, he's not gonna use you or offer that Legends deal. Look at the Heath Slater angle a few years back, with the exception of HTM everyone who came back was someone on good terms with Vince, they didn't give him what he thought he was getting, he talked and he is gone... now apparently Vince is "retaining" the name making it hard for him to go out and do appearances etc... THAT's what happens if you talk out of turn. Look how long and what it took for Bruno and Warrior to come back... for many others like Superstar Graham, there IS no way back now... they'll get the obligatory mention on RAW but that's it.

Then there is the newer phenomenon of released guys/developmental not really burning bridges. Someone like Drew Galloway doesn't diss WWE or talk too much about stuff, when he does it's to a WWE friendly podcast like Jericho's... cos he wants to go back... Some like Matt Sydal or Brodus have done Youshoots and talked about all kinds of stuff... they probably know their chance has gone and they ain't going back anyway... guys like Brierley Pierce, who did speak "out of turn" are defo not going back...ever...

There is no "loyalty" as such, just harsh economic reality...he who holds the keys to the kingdom opens or locks the door.
 
Yeah everyone's done it. Even all of you most likely. I know I have in many walks of my life. This is inherent in a lot of careers. Human beings, especially the ones who get ahead, are not in this manner "classy" as you put it.

The issue is to get yourself to stop seeing it as a bad thing. It's a selfish thing yeah, but you are there to get ahead and succeed. You don't have to stamp on people on your way up, but sometimes you climb and the ladder shakes, and you know, someone else accidentally falls off because of your move. This is an intrinsic problem in general IWC attitudes which are constantly perpetuated by the annoyance of not seeing your favourite get pushed (which don't get me wrong I completely understand as a mark for guys like Wade Barrett).

But I will say as I have said several times before. Wrestling is capitalism. When someone wins a scripted match, someone else has lost a scripted match. I wouldn't put any guy in the WWE locker-room down as "non-politics". Even playing up a nice guy side and smiling and shaking everyone's hand and being friends with the cleaners and caterers could be argued as politicking. I prefer the slightly less negative term "playing the game". Cause you have to be approachable and cool, yet at the same time be clear about your goals and what you want. I bet most of the main eventers in WWE have been people with this kind of attitude. Obviously there are notorious exceptions like pre-Jesus HBK and so on, but generally I've decided to stop having a go at people for successfully playing the game, because I do it myself and it'd be hypocritical to go "ooh, fucking Triple H, marrying the boss's daughter". Which I might add is also pretty shitty, since you're ignoring Triple H's actual skills and abilities which got him basically to the main event before that even happened.

So no, OP, in answer to your question, I don't consider Rocky, Taker or Stone Cold any different from each other in this regard. They were all successful, and all talented, there's more than one reason why in each case.
 
But I think Stone Cold was better, he didn't do any politics, and had better matches then both of them.

How do you not know about Stone Colds "politics" if you *********e to him on the reg. You have posted countless threads about SCSA and everyone tells you the same things everytime. HE WALKED OUT because he didnt want to job to Lesnar. Politics. Thread Over.

Log in.
Troll.
Repeat.
 
Every wrestler plays politics including the beloved undertaker. Taker has pulled politics against alot of people such as ddp, mike awesome, shawn, austin and others.
Stone cold has, rock has and every superstar has.

I can understand and agree why stone cold walked out in 2002. The story goes around, is that lesnar was supposed to squash austin.
And also the match had no build or nothing.
It was a dum idea. Lesnar hasnt earned jack shit to face austin or other superstars.
I never liked lesnar. I will never will.

Rock plays politics but has put people over.
 
Even though Jericho gets a lot of praise for avoiding it the most, it should be noted that there have been hints he wasn't always easy get along with either.

RVD called him a 'political bitch' if I recall in the early 2000's and even according to Jericho's autobiography, Triple H told him he had generated back-stage heat (this was during his early WWF days). While it's often with a playful tone, Jericho sometimes does seem a little...I don't want to say arrogant or pompous, but consider his tone when describing his match with Viscera. He knows he is better than the guy and he sounds a little condescending towards him, even if it's intended to be somewhat funny. If Jericho had any power at that point, he might have just said "no".

So I think any wrestler with any kind of power is bound to do that kinda stuff, but I also believe these kind of people often think they're right. Have you read Hogan's autobiography? When you contrast his words with the words of those who criticized his actions, he seems oddly innocent...as if he didn't realize how much trouble he was causing, but thought he was doing what was best for everyone.

Sean Michaels and Kevin Nash are the only ones I'm really familiar with who acknowledge they were pretty much being egotistical assholes....although maybe they should be admired for their honesty. lol.
 

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