Do We Overlook Brock Lesnar's Recklessness?

[OYDK]

Yes I know, Brock Lesnar is the best, the greatest thing to happen to wrestling since sliced bread, and if you say any different you're not a real wrestling fan. I get it. However, this thread has nothing to do with how great Brock Lesnar is at evoking a reaction or drawing numbers to the product, but more so about the laundry list of wrestlers he's "injured"/potatoed since returning in 2012. I don't like using the term "legit tough guy" when describing a wrestler because in my opinion, every wrestler is a legitimate tough guy, but this rings doubly true for Brock Lesnar. Lesnar's a former UFC Heavyweight Champion who used his incredible size, power, and aggression to outwrestle most of his opponents in the UFC, however it seems like he's carried a bit too much of that aggression into the WWE... or perhaps he is just rusty. Whatever the reason, Lesnar has had a habit of stiffing many opponents/bystanders since his return, and it seems like he gets a free pass from the wrestling community when others (such as Ryback) do not.

Since his return we've seen Lesnar cut open John Cena with a stiff punch to the face, bloody HBK's nose with a forearm, give Roman Reigns one of the stiffest clotheslines I've ever seen, injure the Big Show with a suplex and than injure him again with a chairshot to the elbow, concuss The Undertaker, and most recently break 3 of Jamie Nobles ribs. About half the time Brock Lesnar has stepped in the ring, somebody has come away hurt in one way or another. So why is this seemingly ignored by WWE management and by us as fans?

The question is in the thread title, but I'll ask it again... do we overlook Brock Lesnar's recklessness?

 

[Jonyboyuk2]

No. No we dont? go back to the 1988 dude! them rings were hard! lesnars stuff is all rehearsed!

 

[Jack-Hammer]

To some degree, we probably do. I'm sure that WWE officials do because of the simple fact that Lesnar has been given a pretty broad degree of preferential treatment since day 1.

Sometimes, I think the guy's reckless, but sometimes I think it's just one of those things that can happen to any wrestler in any given situation. For instance, how many times have we seen wrestlers rammed into the security barricade? How many times have we seen wrestlers tackled into them or pushed back first against the edge of the ring apron? Jamie Noble's ribs were broken and that's unfortunate, but I don't see that as being reckless, it's just part of the pitfalls of a very physical business.

Sometimes, I get the feeling that the increased physicality is purposely done. For instance, when I look at his match with Roman Reigns at WrestleMania, I'm wondering if the two of them didn't sit down sometime before the match, maybe even days or weeks in advance, and agree to just be really physical with each other. My reason for thinking this is possible is due to Lesnar getting banged up pretty good himself rather than it just being a one sided affair with Reigns looking like roadkill. Usually when it's a case of recklessness, it's often pretty one sided.

I think a good example of Lesnar's recklessness was in his match against Taker back at WrestleMania XXX but, as an observer, I don't know if it's all 100% on Lesnar. What I mean by that is yes he was stiff as all get out, but Taker himself wasn't feeling all that hot even before the match happened, if reports are accurate that is. Old nagging injuries had been flaring up and bothering Taker for a while and, as a result, he wasn't really able to exercise properly and it showed both in terms of his in-ring performance and his physical appearance; the guy was just flat out of shape and the injuries he sustained during the match were just the icing on the cake. I was against idea of the match because I didn't think Taker would be able to physically withstand it, I certainly wasn't the only one and it turns out that we were right. Taker was reportedly feeling the effects of his match with Lesnar for months afterwards, he suffered a concussion at some point early on in the match and he had to be taken away in an ambulance.

 

[OYDK]

For instance, how many times have we seen wrestlers rammed into the security barricade? How many times have we seen wrestlers tackled into them or pushed back first against the edge of the ring apron? Jamie Noble's ribs were broken and that's unfortunate, but I don't see that as being reckless, it's just part of the pitfalls of a very physical business.

Funny, I asked myself these same questions, but I guess I look at the answers a bit differently. How many times HAVE we seen a wrestler tackled into the ring barricade? And how many times has that wrestler sustained broken ribs, and not just one but three? It can be chalked up to the consequences of a physical business, but it can also be chalked up to Lesnar seriously driving his 265 pound frame into a 150 pound Noble at full speed. Even when watching that segment, it looked really brutal. Would we have gotten the same result if it were say, Kane tackling Noble instead of Lesnar? Possibly, but I doubt it.

Sometimes, I get the feeling that the increased physicality is purposely done. For instance, when I look at his match with Roman Reigns at WrestleMania, I'm wondering if the two of them didn't sit down sometime before the match, maybe even days or weeks in advance, and agree to just be really physical with each other. My reason for thinking this is possible is due to Lesnar getting banged up pretty good himself rather than it just being a one sided affair with Reigns looking like roadkill. Usually when it's a case of recklessness, it's often pretty one sided.

I'm with you on this one. Both guys took their fair share of legitimate punishment in that match, but man oh man did Lesnar ever run over Reigns with that clothesline. That could have turned out very bad for Roman.

I'm not trying to make a big deal out of this as it seems like not many others view this as a big problem. It's just interesting to note.

 

[Logisticalbooker86]

The question you pose is very interesting in that while this is a forum and debate is the name of the game, there may not be a wrong answer to your query.

Allow me to explain. Lesnar's character was built on his reputation as a legitimate badass. Therefore, a significant amount of the interest in him comes from the fact that his matches are so physical. We are in an era where the viewing audience is being asked to be more cognizant of injury in many forms of physical entertainment. The result is pre-determined, but the bumps, bruises and broken bones are as real as they come.

Some will argue that if Lesnar has to be so reckless to put on a good match then he is somewhat overrated. That point is a fair one.

Still, stiff work has made legends throughout the history of professional wrestling. Vader, Mick Foley, along with just about every samoan you can name all made a living utilizing an aggressive style.

Does this excuse Lesnar's recklessness? He should endeavor to be more careful, but what you see is what you get. If he's got no heat from management after what happened with Taker last year (regardless of whose fault it was) he would just about have to break Stephanie's ribs to make management sour on him.

Great performer, but I would never want to be in the ring with the guy. I suppose one has to overlook certain things to truly appreciate Brock Lesnar the performer.

Not for nothing, but Jamie Noble and Joey Mercury are having more success now than they ever had as wrestlers. Is it worth three broken ribs? You'd have to ask Noble, but I'm sure it sucks to be him right now.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

If I was the owner of the company then my answer would be a solid yes, much too aggressive and it's costing injury time that's not needed. As a fan , I embrace and love the brutality of Brock. It's a refreshing change from the average contest is it not ? I know I went , " Holy @hit ! " when Brock clobbered Reigns with that lariat on the ring apron , sending Reigns crashing to the outside of the ring. That wasn't the only - real - smack of that contest either, I recall Reigns getting some payback with a really hard knee to the face.

The unstoppable aggression of Brock Lesnar is part of his character, and I'd hate to see that change for any reason.

 

[Jforg]

Ok I know this won't be a popular thing to say BUT honestly Brock isn't a particularly good PRO WRESTLER. he's a hell of an athlete and a huge draw but nothing really past that. He does seem to injure someone fairly often and he has literally zero mic skills. He's had good matches since he's been back because he works with the best going. Between Cena, Triple H, CM Punk, and the freakin Undertaker, I can't think of someone that wouldn't end up looking great after those matches with those PRO WRESTLERS.

 

[King_of_Swing1520]

Ok I know this won't be a popular thing to say BUT honestly Brock isn't a particularly good PRO WRESTLER. he's a hell of an athlete and a huge draw but nothing really past that. He does seem to injure someone fairly often and he has literally zero mic skills. He's had good matches since he's been back because he works with the best going. Between Cena, Triple H, CM Punk, and the freakin Undertaker, I can't think of someone that wouldn't end up looking great after those matches with those PRO WRESTLERS.

THANK YOU!!!!!

lesnar is a terrible pro wrestler. hell of an athlete, great "prize fighter" but possibly the worst pro wrestler on the roster.

 

[Navi]

Brock Lesnar was a good wrestler at one point, but unfortunately his UFC training seems to take over when he's in a WWE ring. He is just a little too what's the word I'm looking for, intense, maybe. Sometimes I actually wonder if he gets into a zone and actually thinks he's in the Octagon.

Perhaps it's a good thing that he takes so much time off. If he didn't then the wrestlers who get into the ring with him would be dropping like flies.

In answer to the OP's question though, he should be held accountable for his actions. Every wrestler that steps through the ropes has a responsibility to act as safely as they can, in a very unsafe sport.

This is a very slippery slope here as injuries happen in every sport. Keeping him out of the ring because they're scared he might injure someone else isn't good. But on the same hand if he is reckless then maybe the WWE should think about whether or not it's a good thing ot have him around. I'm not an expert, but if I was a man, and a wrestler, I wouldn't get into the ring with him.

 

[Prince Vee]

I don't agree completely in the meantime I don't disagree completely either. Brock certainly is great in the ring but yes his actions sometimes seems like he thinks he is in the octagon. But that night when Jamie Noble got injured I don't agree that it was Brock's fault. WWE shouldn't have fed a lightweight to a heavyweight like Brock and I personally don't think he recklessly threw him onto the barricade. He should take the responsibility of the actions of course but this isn't is fault.

You see the WWE fans love Brock Lesnar because he's a wrestler. He isn't a superstar, he won't showcase so much in the ring. His matches would be reckless and he never gives any time for his opponent to even breathe. That is one among the reason why he's so hot in the ring. If WWE books him like just another big guy, people would just look him as a fit athletic strong Big show.

But I repeat again, he should take responsibilities for his actions in the future.

Cheers!!

 

[Mustang Sally]

Collegiate football players told me the easiest way to get injured is to go only half-speed, whether in practice or game conditions. They said the coach tells them to "go easy" during certain spots in practice, but if they do, the chances of pulling muscles or breaking bones increases because you're fighting your body's natural instinct to handle the play as you would in a game situation.

I would imagine the same is true in pro wrestling. Different wrestlers have different levels of "physicality" and no one's level is as high as Brock Lesnar. I doubt he's doing this to intentionally injure opponents; in fact, I was surprised at how "gently" (a relative term, obviously) he handled guys like CM Punk.

Still, Brock is a big, physical guy....and this is how he wrestles. Matches against Triple H and John Cena are best for him because they're tough, built-to-brawl guys who can take what Brock can bring and give it back.......and there's also the fact that Brock doesn't just dish it out; he takes it, too.

If WWE was worried about recklessness on Brock's part, I doubt they'd put Seth Rollins in there with him. Seth is a fine, well-built wrestler, but seeing him stand in the ring with Brock, I was a little dismayed by how much smaller Seth is.

Whether anyone sits down with Brock before one of his rare matches and tells him to be careful, I would think Brock considers the request the same as the football players who know that being too careful is probably more dangerous than going all out.

More likely they tell him to "not kill anybody" and hope for the best.

 

[Woodstuff]

I don't think the risk of Brock's in-ring style is something 'we' are in a position to overlook. 'We' are spectators. 'We' have no real idea what it's like to wrestle at WWE's level. If WWE management are happy with the safety precautions Lesnar takes during his matches, so should we.

People are bringing up Lesnar's track record of 'injuring' other wrestlers, but theres only two legitimate examples of actual injuries. One was against a nearly 60 year old man, and the other was a guy that's half Lesnar's weight. The blood/'stiff spots' in Lesnar matches could've all been planned out to sell the fact that Lesnar is a legit beast. Maybe kayfabe isn't totally dead after all?

I'm not ignoring the fact that 'taker got hurt and Noble's ribs cracked like twigs, but it's not like Lesnar has injured every wrestler he's been in the ring with. HHH/Cena/Reigns/Punk were all fine (to a performing standard) after their matches, so maybe you're reading into this a little too much?

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

It's Brock Lesnar. He can do what he wants, when he wants. Whenever he's on TV, the atmosphere is electric. He's also a former UFC fighter, so he has a little different style than most. As for concerns about his style potentially injuring other wrestlers, Woodstuff is spot on.

 

[Sundar]

I don't think Brock Lesnar is reckless at all. I believe he is actually one of the safer workers in the business right now, considering what he is actually capable of doing if he wanted to. Ever since he came back to WWE, his gimmick has revolved around him being a former UFC Heavyweight champion so his moves are expected to be devastating and to bloody up his opponents. Busting up Cena and Reigns during his feuds against them was in all likelihood, intentional and really only added to those feuds. Taker was old and beat up already and you cannot really blame Lesnar for his concussion because it was arguably THE most important match at arguably THE biggest WM ever. Yes he had to protect Taker but he also had to make the match look believable. From a storyline perspective, Jamie Noble's injury actually made Brock look strong in a way even though he was outnumbered and taken out by the rest. It showed that even though he was taken down, he managed to take one of the 4 men out of the equation completely.

To those who think he isn't a great pro wrestler in the ring, you should watch some of his matches during his previous run from 2002-2004. It is probably only because of his UFC background and maybe health issues that we don't see him hitting Shooting Star presses or attempting many risky moves anymore. Still, it makes sense for him to use mostly striking, submissions and suplexes because of his UFC and amateur wrestling background.

 

[MC_Live]

Hey, it's wrestling. Things happen, people get hurt. Everybody knows what they signed up for, and they can handle themselves. Besides, how many times has Brock gotten physical, and not hurt somebody? Probably a higher number than the amount of times that he did.

Is it a problem when one guy is involved in several incidents? Maybe. He's not doing it intentionally. And if he does hurt someone, as long as it's not too major, that's more of a problem between Brock and the guy he hurt. As long as Brock doesn't repeatedly seriously injure people to the point of them taking extended time off, thus costing them and the company money, it's more of a minor problem that should be handled on a personal level. We should just sit back and enjoy the products that they provide us.

As the great Shane Falco once said, "Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory, last forever!"

 

[wrestler36]

What he's doing now is a cake walk compared to the serious injuries that happened/could have happened during his first run. I remember seeing a botched F5 onto A-Train/Tensai that could have broken his neck. Same thing with Hardcore Holly and that botched power bomb. Of course Lesnar hurt himself on that shooting star press.

 

[sdelfin]

There is too much missing information to determine that Lesnar is reckless, which is not something I've heard him called before. Lesnar may have hurt people or stiffed people, but what we don't know is what he's been instructed to do and what his opponents have been willing to do. Noble's injury was unfortunate, but it wouldn't surprise me if Noble told Lesnar to not hold back on the spot. It's just speculation, but it's a common attitude wrestlers have.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

After what happened last night on Raw, Lesnar's recklessness has moved beyond just being, at times, too stiff within the confines of wrestling matches. After he tore the door off J&J Security's Cadillac last night and tossed it, some of the shrapnel from the car accidentally hit a fan. According to PWInsider.com, the fan was briefly attended to but returned from backstage to his seat, unharmed.

WWE really and truly dodged a bullet last night as the fan who was hit could've been genuinely injured, it's just fortunate that he wasn't. If he had been, WWE opened itself up to a slam dunk lawsuit and, truth be told, who's to say that this person won't give it a shot anyhow? I'm sure that the fan would have little trouble finding some shyster attorney that would be willing to milk WWE out of some money.

If this had happened with almost anyone else on the roster, Vince would've been so far up his ass that he could've tasted what they had for lunch and would've been either fired or buried as punishment. Also, considering that it was Lesnar's mistake that could've placed, and still might wind up placing for all anyone knows at this time, in a precarious position, it was low class that Lesnar didn't personally apologize to the fan after the show or to do so by going backstage to do so after the fan was brought backstage to be checked out.

It's not to say that the segment wasn't extremely well done, as it was, but that doesn't excuse Lesnar's recklessness in this case. It's bad enough that it sometimes has caused other wrestlers to get hurt, but it's something else entirely when that recklessness impacts a fan in attendance.

 

[LBGetBack]

After what happened last night on Raw, Lesnar's recklessness has moved beyond just being, at times, too stiff within the confines of wrestling matches. After he tore the door off J&J Security's Cadillac last night and tossed it, some of the shrapnel from the car accidentally hit a fan. According to PWInsider.com, the fan was briefly attended to but returned from backstage to his seat, unharmed.

WWE really and truly dodged a bullet last night as the fan who was hit could've been genuinely injured, it's just fortunate that he wasn't. If he had been, WWE opened itself up to a slam dunk lawsuit and, truth be told, who's to say that this person won't give it a shot anyhow? I'm sure that the fan would have little trouble finding some shyster attorney that would be willing to milk WWE out of some money.

If this had happened with almost anyone else on the roster, Vince would've been so far up his ass that he could've tasted what they had for lunch and would've been either fired or buried as punishment. Also, considering that it was Lesnar's mistake that could've placed, and still might wind up placing for all anyone knows at this time, in a precarious position, it was low class that Lesnar didn't personally apologize to the fan after the show or to do so by going backstage to do so after the fan was brought backstage to be checked out.

It's not to say that the segment wasn't extremely well done, as it was, but that doesn't excuse Lesnar's recklessness in this case. It's bad enough that it sometimes has caused other wrestlers to get hurt, but it's something else entirely when that recklessness impacts a fan in attendance.

I'm not surprised. I was concerned multiple times when he was destroying the car. First, after he pulled the axe out of the backseat window I saw him looking his hand a few times. I wondered if he cut himself. Also when he suplexed Joey Mercury onto the car, he seemed to land awkwardly on his head/neck and I worried he might've injured him. And yeah, when he launched that car door insanely far I wondered if the door itself would go into the crowd, let alone pieces off of it.

 

[Mustang Sally]

If he had been, WWE opened itself up to a slam dunk lawsuit and, truth be told, who's to say that this person won't give it a shot anyhow?

True. One of the problems in today's over-litigious society is all the folks who 'give it a shot' and seem to have no trouble finding a doctor who will sign off on phony garbage in order to threaten someone with a lawsuit.

But, man alive, when I saw that car door interior rocketing toward the fans like a spinning frisbee, I wondered whether the WWE announcers would acknowledge if someone got injured.

No, I don't think Brock would ever intentionally injure someone; it's ridiculous to think he would. But he can't get into the act so completely that he presents an actual danger to someone.....especially a fan.

Can you imagine if a lawsuit developed over this incident and Brock's response in a deposition was: "I didn't think I could throw it that far."

That would look just great before a jury or arbitrator, wouldn't it?

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

That element of danger, due to his "recklessness" and super-human qualities, is what the WWE has been missing for YEARS.

Of course I don't want to see fans or wrestlers get hurt, but hey, its like going to a ball game and getting hit with a foul ball because you weren't paying attention. When Brock is present, be on your toes.

 

[Navi]

After what happened last night on Raw, Lesnar's recklessness has moved beyond just being, at times, too stiff within the confines of wrestling matches. After he tore the door off J&J Security's Cadillac last night and tossed it, some of the shrapnel from the car accidentally hit a fan. According to PWInsider.com, the fan was briefly attended to but returned from backstage to his seat, unharmed.

Like Sally I watched that door go flying off and thought, shit where the hell did he throw it. A guy of Lesnar's size and strength, shouldn't be throwing stuff like that around. Didn't he allegedly hit someone with an errant throw of a monitor a couple of years ago?

You're right the WWE did dodge a bullet there. It could have been one hell of a nasty lawsuit if someone had been injured seriously. When you go to hockey and baseball games, you have to watch out for balls and pucks that might get hit into the crowd. Never have I had to watch out for a car door coming my way.

On a related note, the main page is saying that J&J Security is out for an unspecified length of time, due to injuries sustained after Lesnar attacked them on Monday. I'm sure that's just kayafe, but Mercury almost went through that windshield.

 

[Navdeep]

Jamie Noble required stitches in his back following Monday¡¯s RAW. He was cut by glass during Brock Lesnar¡¯s attack. http://www.prowrestling.com/chris- je...juries-details
Copied from other site.
If this is true then Lesner should be careful and I don't want to see another Kidd type situation and I don't care how great Lesner is , if he is going to constantly injure the other person he should not be in pro wrestling business.

 

[chuckmdubya]

Lesnar always seems a little over enthusiastic or he gets carried away. And who could blame him, what is the exhausted criticism that every non wrestling fan, and wanna be smart guy says about wrestling - it's fake. Lesnar is doing a reverse Foley here. Instead of taking real full speed punishment, he's dishing it out. When he takes guys to suplex city, those suplexes he's giving don't look like the ones we usually see, he's dropping them on the heads and necks, not their backs. When he ground and pounds he's making serious contact.
He is being a little rough, but there is no need to make a big deal of it. No one goes into wrestling expecting they won't be hurt.
Now the stuff about the fans is different. He has got to be more careful than that with them. He's too focused on what he's doing on stage and not even thinking about the consequences. Gotta tone that down a notch or two, or he could accidentally cause a huge problem.

 

[OYDK]

Lesnar always seems a little over enthusiastic or he gets carried away. And who could blame him, what is the exhausted criticism that every non wrestling fan, and wanna be smart guy says about wrestling - it's fake. Lesnar is doing a reverse Foley here. Instead of taking real full speed punishment, he's dishing it out.

The difference between the two is Foley was accepting the punishment unto himself. Lesnar is putting other people at risk by trying to make pro wrestling seem "legitimate" as you put it. The one rule in pro wrestling is to always keep your opponent safe. You can't just throw that rule out the window because you get carried away with what people who don't watch the product think.

When he takes guys to suplex city, those suplexes he's giving don't look like the ones we usually see, he's dropping them on the heads and necks, not their backs. When he ground and pounds he's making serious contact.

Which implies that he's doing it on purpose which is even worse. If you can't protect your opponent you shouldn't be wrestling, period.

He is being a little rough, but there is no need to make a big deal of it. No one goes into wrestling expecting they won't be hurt.

It's one thing to go into a match expecting to be hurt from a botched move or fluke incident. It's a completely different thing to go into a match and get dropped on your head 12 times in the name of "reality" in a scripted sport.