Did TNA Go Wrong With Turning Pope Heel?

[GUMBO2ndcoming]

I certainly think so, he was so over as a face. I'm not saying he doesn't pull of the heel well (i.e. Elijah Burke) but again he was so over as a face the crowd was really into him. I personally think Joe plays the heel better and if they wanted to do a feud between the two the roles should've been reversed. It kinda seems like TNA was just looking for the next shocking thing, this doesn't help Pope it hurts him. People wanna like Pope because of how WWE did him. This feud really isnt interesting to me as it just sets back Pope from winning the World Title like he deserves.


Agree or Disagree?

 

[fenfool]

Yeah, the feud is terrible...and there wasn't really a heel turn, he was just suddenly a heel. The turn is often the most interesting part, and they didn't bother with it. He was getting over pretty well as a face...he was supposedly the one taking over the fight for Sting & Nash, then he suddenly turns into Michael Vick of 2 years ago...and I bet a lot people didn't even really get that reference. It seems to me a wasted opportunity...but I would bet that with the right feud, eventually Pope can get over pretty well as a heel.

 

[brainsuks1234]

Agree.

I dont normally watch TNA but Pope is a very good face and if they were to turn him heel I think it should have been something around the summer but oh well tna is known for screw ups

 

[Stormlor]

Disagree. He can play either role very well. He was very over with the crowd and that is wonderful that he is.

I think why TNA did this was because something had to give. Both stars didn't have any feuds going on, and both are considered just as big as AJ is. This is / was a testing feud to see how they would get over. Apparently it didn't work well.

 

[Calderownz]

While he can play both, I just think the current feud and the reasoning behind it is the problem. I simply don't like the match up between Samoa Joe and The Pope, style wise. Personally.

However, a better story would help. The current story is stupid, to me personally

Nonetheless, he was getting over as a face and should have been given his first push after winning the 8 Card Stud Tournament.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I certainly think so, he was so over as a face. I'm not saying he doesn't pull of the heel well (i.e. Elijah Burke) but again he was so over as a face the crowd was really into him. I personally think Joe plays the heel better and if they wanted to do a feud between the two the roles should've been reversed. It kinda seems like TNA was just looking for the next shocking thing, this doesn't help Pope it hurts him. People wanna like Pope because of how WWE did him. This feud really isnt interesting to me as it just sets back Pope from winning the World Title like he deserves.


Agree or Disagree?

When guys like Mr. Anderson, AJ Styles, RVD and Jeff Hardy are in your company, there's honeslty very little reason a guy like Pope should be in contention to be a world champion — he just isn't good enough, or at the very least he's simply not nearly as good as the aforementioned performers. That could change over the years, but where he is at this point in his career... World Champion isn't the next logical step.

That said, was turning him heel wrong? Hard to say — one of he or Joe had to if the Fortune turn was in the mix, because without it the heel/face ratio would have been incredibly in favor of the faces which is both unnatural and poor for structuring adequate story lines.

This feud hasn't done either man any favors, but it's too early to call it a failure for his character.

 

[UltimateHitman]

I don't think the heel turn itself was bad, but the way in which it was executed. Like it was mentioned above, it just came out of the blue. He was looking to be a main player when Sting and Nash left, then bam! WTF??

If they would have given it proper build up, maybe have it slowly come out or something, it would have been much better. Have him seen a few different places or maybe overheard saying something, just teasing something wasn't quite right w/him. It was too rushed, plain and simple. It is TNA, though, and they do tend to rush things quite often.

They need to stop desperately switching things around trying to hit on that "big score". It doesn't do the fans any justice, and definitely doesn't do them any favors.

Take your time, build something up, work a few things at once slowly, patiently. Damn. They keep saying they're "doing fine" financially and ratings wise, but if so, why the blue hell are they rushing around in desperation to make something "pop"?

 

[wrestlingfan]

Pope shouldn't have went heel. He spews face. The whole reason they turned him face in the first place was sure he could play the heel role good but the fans just loved it so much that they had no choice.

 

[rondiesel2005]

here is how i see it like what It's Damn Real! said he isn't good enough. He is one of those guys that TNA would have a hard time booking him in a match because they can't seem to find someone for him to feud with. I thought he was doing fine with feuding with Mr. Anderson till he got injured. when he came back what did they do put him with Sting and Kevin Nash. After Nash and Sting left, what were they going to do with him??

So they put him with Abyss and that didn't go to well. That's when he started to do some weird promos. If TNA was to giving the him the title, want to bet he not going to have a good title run, they probably let him hold the title for a month and if he can't prove why he should stay champion for a long time, they going to take it off of him till he gets better and improve him self.

The Pope needs to feud with somebody who can help him get to where he needs to be because him and Joe are not doing anything

 

[supaman5279]

i dont really watch tna ever since the hogan era began but i did catch a little joe/pope promo and i did see their latest ppv match. my problem with it is that theyre pretty much shitting on pope's gimmick by calling him fake. so whats gonna happen on a face turn. were gonna cheer for the fake lying pope???.....repackaged pope????....idk wut to tell u cuz with tna at the helm of hogan and bischoff...who knows????...i hope theyre jus fooling everyone and dixie ends up embarassing those two clowns...or somebody...anybody...COME SAVE TNA plz

 

[ABMorales787]

I'm a big fan of D 'Angelo Dinero. But I have noticed something. As good as he is on the mic, as decent a wrestler he is in the ring and as cool a character as he has, he can't really tell a good story. He can't seem to make much go on. His feud with Suicide when he first appeared was built solely on the two having matches that got more intense as they went. No real story to it. When he feuded with Desmond Wolfe, it was about Wolfe being upset. Nothing else too it. When he won the 8 Card Stud and began to feud with AJ and Flair, what happened? All he really did was call Ric, Dick and "preach" to his Congregation. That's OK. But not good enough to build a true story. Ric Flair did most of the work by calling Pope out and Desmod Wolfe and AJ did the rest. When Pope returned from injury, his next major angle was teaming with The Wolfpac against Jeff and Joe.What did he contribute to that story? he flirted with Tessmacher and found out about Immortal. But who did the main storytelling? Kevin Nash. Finally came his feud with Abyss. Which was pretty much all Eric Bischoff.

Let's face it. Pope has a lot of great attributes under his belt. Storytelling, sadly enough, isn't one of them. And it shows. Who's doing all the work in his feud with Joe? Well Joe is. He's the one who filmed Pope. he's the one who called him out. All Pope's added to the feud was the picture with the pigs having sex and claiming that's Joe and his wife. That's about it, really. Can he turn that around? Well yes. And him in these midcard feuds help. But he needs to hold that stick often and be forced to play the major role in his feud. Otherwise guys like that Kato look-a-like will get a bigger rub than him.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

While I do not think that the Pope/ Joe feud is as bad as you are making it out to be, the way in which the turn was executed certainly sucked and that is why a lot of us feel that it was wrong to turn him heel.

On one hand his turn makes perfect sense. There are too many main event faces in TNA namely Morgan, Anderson, RVD and the freshly turned AJ Styles. Among these guys Pope would have got lost in the shuffle and so it made sense to turn him heel.

But on the other hand, his alliance with Sting and Nash suggested that he was ready to take the fight to Immortal almost singlehandedly. That and the fact that he has always been pretty over as a face suggests that it was a mistake to turn him heel.

I really do not know what to think. I think that he should probably join The Immortal faction now that their numbers have reduced. He stands a better chance of winning a title that way. Then again he could have made a decent midcard face as well.

 

[The Shockmaster]

First he won the 8 card Stud Tournament and then had a decent title match with AJ. After that Pope has been on a highway to no where with unlimited gas.

I used to have huge hopes for the pope but recently those hopes have dwindled down to whatever is below that. This heel turn came out of nowhere and has done nothing to help progress his career in anyway. After BFG I thought they were going to give him a storyline with immortal a la sting and the nwo. Would of made sense due to the fact he was the last one of the tna wolfpac to comeback after BFG. Pope could of had a few months of fighting against Immortal and then if he wasn't running with the ball they could of turned him heel sort of like a if you cant beat them, join them type of situation.

I used to dare to say the pope could be tna's version of the rock. Has alright ring ability, good mic skills, a good look and a crowd favorite. Not saying he would be the most electrifying but definitely has more charisma than most in the tna locker room. Now I wouldnt be caught dead saying that, especially cause i might get my candy ass beat by the great one himself.

 

[bigJOE]

as others have alluded to, turning Pope heel isn't the problem. it's HOW they turned him heel. the problem is...they didn't, really. like a previous poster said, it's like one week he was face, and they didn't have anything for him and Joe to do, so they threw them together in a program and Pope was the heel. The heel turn wasn't very believable, and that's why no one's really into the feud.

 

[GUMBO2ndcoming]

Can you really say that he wouldn't be a good champ? We don't know that because TNA wasn't smart and didnt put the strap on him. He's kinda like Sheamus right now in the sense that he's stuck with nothing going for him. For those who said he's not good enough like I said we dont know for sure because he wasnt given the belt. You say he's not a big player with all those other guys there but that's TNA's problem they're not building anybody up they're letting washed-up has beens wear the title. Other then Anderson and AJ everyone that has held the belt in the past 2 years has been past there prime! Even Angle as good as he is.

 

[MoizH28]

The mistake TNA made was to turn him face period after his program with Suicide. As a heel he could of worked matches with Morgan, Joe, Angle and Hernandez before he got sent to AAA. I think what TNA has to do is turn Pope into a tweener a guy who is out for himself only. He can work tag matches partnering with faces but then leaving right after the match, not mention the audience in his promos but then come out whenever a heel is bragging about how good he is.

 

[Dark Horse]

As I've viewed this transition(and it has been a transition) all is well. Is it different? Yes. Do people as a whole like change? No. So I understand the feelings of disenchantment about this whole heel turn thing. It has been a little odd to me as well, but I think this could be a really good change. I'm not saying he is world title bound as a result, but it could help him nudge closer to that point if he plays his part right, and TNA plays theirs right as well. Heel turns have a way of bringing out the best of people it seems, look to history for your proof. Most people prefer top talent in heel roles for one reason or another.

This has actually been a slow turn, it hasn't just been on a dime. It started with Samoa Joe following Pope and trying to prove that he was a fake. Pope(under the gun) denies all allegations and tries to turn it around on Joe(classic heel stuff). As time goes on, Joe reveals more evidence and hurls more accusation, again Pope denies these charges. Eventually after being busted out completely he gives up the charade and shows that Joe was right, he is a fake and liar, making him heel.

I thought the initial attempt at AAO was a weak attempt to drive home the fact that they are pushing him as a heel(having him attempt to walk out on the match, giving the fans the obscene gesture) . However, the after match segment was perfect for what they were trying to do in giving credibility to his heel status. Attacking Joe, running away like a coward, basking in his greatness even though he just lost a match, etc... all classic heel stuff.

The main thing that gained my notice though, was that once they actually were having the match, Pope was more entertaining than ever. In the ring he really isn't lacking anything and knows exactly what he is doing. His mic work has been a bit lacking as of recent, but hopefully with this heel turn he can capture some magic. I think he pulls off the role very well, and that his character is more suited for a heel role anyways. Now it is all a matter of watching and waiting.

 

[Kitten Cutter]

If you get a chance, check out my post The De-Push of the Pope. I'm a huge fan and feel like his career has stalled.

My take on this: The wrong guy turned heel. Think about it: Samoa Joe has a lackey (Okada) chasing Pope around taking pictures because he doesn't like him. Samoa Joe's character for years has been a brooding, vicious loner, and now he's fighting for the fans to reveal The Pope's true nature? Samoe Joe would work so much better as a heel at this point in time. He's practically a tweener anyway, as evident by over the summer and fall with his uneasy alliance with Jarrett, and his matches against Jeff Hardy and RVD.

I still wonder where this whole thing is going, but for a guy who has never held a major title, literally getting squashed by Joe only to try to get his heat back after the match still shows he's less than his competition. I really want the Pope to succeed, but can we see him in a year competing in a main event again for the World Title? For any title? Will TNA make him the top guy as a face or as a heel? Not likely after this. Consider this as well: when was the last time he won a match? While Jeff Jarrett has been unbeatable for months, Pope has been counting lights for month at a time. And with a lot of top faces around (Morgan, RVD, Anderson, Styles, Joe, Kaz, Roode, Storm, Crimson, Steiner, Angle and on...) does anyone see Pope beating any of them?

Had I booked this, the ONLY change I would have made is The Pope wouldn't have insulted the fans. Who cares if he's stealing money from wrestlers? (I don't remember him taking money from fans directly, and we've seen several characters over the years rob wrestlers even as faces.) As long as Pope was fighting The Immortals aka "the good fight" he would have stayed face, and Samoa Joe and Okada could have easily sneak-attacked Pope on several occasions and established their heel persona.