Did the WWE make a mistake by turning the McMahons face?

[SK]

It's a simple question, but has a possibly more complex answer.

On the Raw before the Royal Rumble 2009 Vince McMahon made his return to WWE after previously being out 'injured' because of part of the titantron falling on him. He came back to Raw to address Chris Jericho and whether Steph would remain GM. During this period Orton was returning from injury and wanted a title shot, Steph wouldn't give it to him and he and Steph argued. Steph fired Chris Jericho but he was allowed to beg for his job back. Vince then made Orton beg for his job but he wouldn't as he was about to fire him Orton attacked him and punted him in the head. After this we went on with Orton punting Shane after fighting with him, then RKO and DDT Steph whilst Triple H looked on.

So, did the WWE make a mistake by making the McMahons and Triple H the faces in this scenario?

Well, you look at when Vince returned, if I remember correctly, he got a pretty good pop from the crowd, but I think this is irrelevant because most returning wrestlers/characters get a pop. We all know that the Orton, Triple H fued went badly, and still continues to this day, involving Legacy, Batista, Ric Flair and the McMahons. What if the McMahons were the heels all trying to stop Orton and Legacy, and Tirple H helped his wife Steph, because lets face it, Triple H is a much better heel than he is a face.

So, what if Orton, instead of punting McMahon had just RKO'd him instead, turning him into a tweener SCSA type of character. Orton could still win the Rumble and use it like he did, saying he won and has a contract saying that he could fight at Wrestlemania. This way he can still fight Shane and Steph could use Triple H to try and take out Orton, leading to hopefully a better match at Wrestlemania which Orton should have won. This would have also lead to more storyline twists with Orton as a tweener champ, opening the door for him to then al;ign with McMahon and become a fully fledged heel.

I think that the WWE dropped the ball, the Mr. McMahon character is made for being a heel. Everyone hates their boss and wants to imagine that its themselves that are in the ring hurting their boss. The SCSA character was so popular because of the fueds with Vince, and to be fair he played his part very well because you hated him and wanted to see him get a stunner. Also when Vince is a heel, more storyline options are open with Vince screwing people over. Steph and Shane, in my opinion, should also be heels, vying for control of the WWE, trying to impess Vince. They should be heels beause they are authority figures and authority figures should be either impartial or heel.

Look at the past, WWE was far more successful with Vince as a heel and seeing him as a face just doesn't work, most people can't identify with his character because they are just the average joe who doesn't own a company, but rather hate the people that do own companies. Now i'm not even suggesting Orton should be a face/ tweener, I just used that as an example. However, I definately do not think that Vince McMahon should be a face character, he has too much history and his character is too developed to be a face, people are meant to hate him, so why would they start to like him just because he got punted?

I think that turning the McMahons face definately did some damage to not just the Orton Triple H fued, but the WWE in general. Vince is there to screw people over and to be hated by faces and the crowd alike.

Is it just me? Or do you think that the McMahons should be heel characters?

 

[Razor Blade Dream]

I guess they felt they couldn't be heels forever and needed to change things up a bit. And it seems they wanted to get Orton as over as humanly possible but it just sucked the life out of the feud. I do agree with you on that.

Yet, the beauty of McMahon is he can instantly turn heel by just uttering a single phrase or calling out a wrestler. It really isn't hard for him to get people to rally against or get behind him. I do see where they should have just had Orton RKO him to go the SCSA route but Orton isn't billed as a SCSA character. He is supposed to just snap at any given moment, unlike SCSA who was well aware of what he did and just didn't give a fuck what people thought of him. Orton is supposed to be a crazy guy who had that I.E.D. thing which was humorously dropped after it was linked to steroid use.
I don't think they wanted a SCSA re-tread with laying out the boss. That was done and over with so I guess just flat out trying to murder the boss is the way to go in a PG rated world?
Personally, they shouldn't have had Orton do anything to the McMahons. He should have just punted everyone he came in contact with in the ring and even lay out Lawler. Instead of him getting HHH to come out because of Stephanie it should have been with Flair. Yeah, people know they are married in real life but not EVERYONE knows it you know? The common fan is aware of Flair and HHH being friends so that would have worked better and left the McMahons out of it. Yet, they just did it with Batista and look what happens, he's out for 4 months now. *fanfare*

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

No, the McMahon's turning Face/Tweener was not a mistake. Fact of the matter is that they were completely stale characters as it was and it really wasn't adding to the enjoyment of the product (just me speaking for myself, of course) in any way.

I think what is simply needed is for the McMahon's to do what they are doing now, and stay off television, to allow for some new characters to take prominence. Unfortunately, where as they are staying off TV, they are failing to create any new and exciting characters in their absence. So that is where they are dropping the ball.

The Mr. McMahon character has been around since 1997/1998. Well over 10 years. They have done everything with him that they can possibly do.

We've seen:

Heel Vince
Face Vince
Crazy Vince
"It's all about the MON-AAAAAYYYY" Vince
Father of an illegitimate son, Vince


We've had:

Vince vs Shane
Vince vs Stephanie
Vince vs Shane and Stephanie
Vince vs Shane, Stephanie, and Linda
Vince vs Triple H
Vince vs Eric Bischoff
Vince vs Paul Heyman
Vince vs Austin
Vince vs Rock
Vince vs Hogan
Vince vs HBK

It gets to the point where you have to ask "How much more can you possibly do with Vince, that hasn't been done already?"

 

[un1earn]

I think it just came to a point where everyone who has any sort of wrestling background knowledge has recognized the fact that HHH is already married to the boss' daughter, so to continue it as though they were enemies is flat out ridiculous. I remember when they would make the odd pun, or joke recognizing the relationships they had the fans would eat it up. If anything the approach they should have done, is have HHH turn heel take over "Raw" or the WWE in general along with the fam. Just go full out commando making whatever matches suited him most, and potentially build a feud somewhere where shane mcmahon would have to fight for dad's respect and potentially take 'ownership'. (But of course if that were to happen we'd have a 100 time wwe champion on our hands) It's going to happen anyway we might as well accept it. It will be his unfortunate legacy.

 

[King Patrick Star]

I like the idea of bringing back the McMahon-Helmsley “Fac-gime”, and I think it would have worked out better if Orton was the Face, but that’s life. It may have worked better for Legacy as a group to be the Faces as well. It’s “been done before”, so that may be why they did it the way it’s being done.

 

[Bring Back the Great One]

it was not a mistake, and if you were expecting to see orton as a SCSA type character you are wrong, there will never be anyone like him again. as far as vince being a face was not a mistake and orton is good as a heel, and we have seen a triple h as a heel and orton as a face feud before so turning the tables around was a good move, and the mcmahons also go from faces to heels to faces to heels etc.. even though vince is 99% of the time a heel so it is good to let him be a face for a lil bit, and vince hasnt been on the show for awhile same with shane and steph, it is just triple h and orton now unless they come back, which could be soon since vickie is leaving and raw without a gm once again.

 

[Razor Blade Dream]

I like the idea of bringing back the McMahon-Helmsley “Fac-gime”, and I think it would have worked out better if Orton was the Face, but that’s life. It may have worked better for Legacy as a group to be the Faces as well. It’s “been done before”, so that may be why they did it the way it’s being done.

I didn't mind the monster factions like the McMahon-Helmsley Era. It made for entertaining television as the faces would always get screwed over and if they defied the odds they would get a beat down for their efforts. Orton as a face though? I dunno, he just doesn't seem to work as a face I don't think. I mean, this was when he was still a bit green so maybe he can work it better now. Legacy just needs to be faces, they don't have the scowls or the aura to be badass heels. Maybe if they grew in some 5 o'clock shadow like RVD it would work but they are too clean cut looking and still have a teenager look about them. When I think of a badass heel in wrestling I always think they should look rough around the edges or if they are too good lookin for their own good have them be cocky. It just works better it seems to me.
I really think HHH should have at least one more heel run, as much as the IWC pisses and moans about him, I like him and he always brought it to the table when he was a heel.

 

[Razor]

Meh. The McMahon's needed to be face. They wanted Orton heel. What better way to turn Orton heel than to have him go fucking crazy and start RKO'ing his bosses? This isn't the same as Austin. He fought back because the bosses were being jackasses. Orton fought back because McMahon was doing his job, and Orton didn't like that.

Orton can not be a tweener Austin character. Because I for one don't believe he has the mic skills to get a crowd behind him. His promos are him droning....on...and on....It's really quite annoying. It goes past typical heel promo into some weird 10 minute thing where he pauses WAY to long, and seems to be trying to hard. Sorta like Flair. Except Flair pauses because he can't remember his lines or because he's trying to Wooooooooo for no reason.

The McMahons as heel only works against mega-faces like Cena or DX or Austin. And when I say mega-face, I mean you have to have the crowd behind you no matter what you do. The only reason Austin was the great tweener he was was because he was sooo cool, the crowd wouldve cheered if he fucked a Golden Retriever in the middle of the ring while drinking Canadian Beer and eating a Bald Eagle with the American Flag as a bib. He had that crowd won. Orton? Not a chance.

 

[Razor Blade Dream]

Orton can not be a tweener Austin character. Because I for one don't believe he has the mic skills to get a crowd behind him. His promos are him droning....on...and on....It's really quite annoying. It goes past typical heel promo into some weird 10 minute thing where he pauses WAY to long, and seems to be trying to hard. Sorta like Flair. Except Flair pauses because he can't remember his lines or because he's trying to Wooooooooo for no reason.

The McMahons as heel only works against mega-faces like Cena or DX or Austin. And when I say mega-face, I mean you have to have the crowd behind you no matter what you do. The only reason Austin was the great tweener he was was because he was sooo cool, the crowd wouldve cheered if he fucked a Golden Retriever in the middle of the ring while drinking Canadian Beer and eating a Bald Eagle with the American Flag as a bib. He had that crowd won. Orton? Not a chance.

I agree that Orton goes on weird tangents. It was almost like David Lynch territory just not as entertaining. And I agree he could never ever be a tweener or even get the crowd behind him. I mean Jericho talks in a monotone voice now but the crowd listens to him, Orton is just like, lecturing to the crowd like Ben Stein on downers.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I hate it when the two Razor's post in the same thread. I always get mixed up. At any rate, it has already been proven that Orton can not play a face. I really don't think that would ever change. that being said, The McMahons could've played the heel, at least Vince and or Shane, if they would have aligned with Orton. It would have been a bit of a stretch, but it would have made a lot more sense than the bullshit we were left to deal with. Steph turning would have been beyond ******ed. Everyone already knows they are married and it would have been mind numbingly stupid. This subject as a whole has been way overdone.

 

[JGlass]

Meh. The McMahon's needed to be face. They wanted Orton heel. What better way to turn Orton heel than to have him go fucking crazy and start RKO'ing his bosses?

He was already heel. I think there are a lot better ways to get over as a heel than RKO'ing the boss, who has always been an asshole that we've been trained to root against. Look at The Miz, I don't think he's even looked at a McMahon, and he's on his way to being the most hated heel on RAW if you go by audience reactions, meanwhile, Orton gets mixed reactions. So to answer your question, coming out and being annoying as hell by claiming to have beaten RAW's biggest superstar without even touching him is a better way to turn Orton heel than RKO'ing a McMahon.

This isn't the same as Austin. He fought back because the bosses were being jackasses. Orton fought back because McMahon was doing his job, and Orton didn't like that.

One would argue that McMahon was just "doing his job" by trying to keep the belt off of Stone Cold because he was put off by how bad ass Stone Cold was. If McMahon was the face in that situation, and Austin was the heel, we'd all be saying that McMahon was trying to do his job and Austin didn't like that.

Orton can not be a tweener Austin character. Because I for one don't believe he has the mic skills to get a crowd behind him. His promos are him droning....on...and on....It's really quite annoying. It goes past typical heel promo into some weird 10 minute thing where he pauses WAY to long, and seems to be trying to hard.

All very true. I agree, Orton will never get over on mic skills alone, and I don't think he can survive as a tweener Austin character. I think he needs to be a full fledged heel to survive, but you can't be a full fledged heel when your greatest recent accomplishment is punting the owner, who is historically and asshole, in the head.

The McMahons as heel only works against mega-faces like Cena or DX or Austin. And when I say mega-face, I mean you have to have the crowd behind you no matter what you do.

I disagree, the McMahons as heels work ESPECIALLY well with mega-faces, but have worked with everyone in general. There is nobody easier to root against than Vince McMahon, he's an egotist, evil, greedy, adulterous, money grubbing asshole of a boss. If you don't hate one thing about his character, there's bound to be another. Doesn't this sound like the perfect character to put someone over? I realize there's not a whole lot of precedent for this happening, but what about Bobby Lashley? Lashley lifted the ECW championship off of him and shaved his head! Now Lashley might still be hovering around the upper mid-card is he still stuck around in WWE, but he could very well be competing in the main event. He also helped JBL get a main event heel push during the whole illegitimate child fiasco. Would JBL have been as hated after his return if he hadn't beaten up a midget and the guy who was trying to protect him?

The only reason Austin was the great tweener he was was because he was sooo cool, the crowd wouldve cheered if he fucked a Golden Retriever in the middle of the ring while drinking Canadian Beer and eating a Bald Eagle with the American Flag as a bib. He had that crowd won. Orton? Not a chance.

Well I don't know about the whole Canadian Beer part, but the rest of it is basically true. Orton is not, and never will be Stone Cold. As far as I'm concerned, he's about just as good in the ring, and half as good on the mic. I'm in agreement with you that Orton will never ever be a good tweener or a good Stone Cold knock off, but I'm in complete disagreement about the McMahons as heels.

Bottom line, the McMahons are all perfect heels, even Linda will one day be a perfect heel. Vince's character is a horrible person. He's ridiculously selfish, he's greedy, and he's an egotist. His kids are both spoiled little brats who only try to emulate his greed and selfishness, and they have no qualms about stabbing their closest friends and family in the back. Linda could one day be considered the bitch that brought us the PG era, if the WWE decides to go down that road. Basically, there's nothing about the McMahons that make them sympathetic as faces, and they should have never made the face turn.