Did the MSG incident make a difference?

[Tastycles]

To quote my ex-flatmate, there are only two interesting non-kayfabe things to happen in a wrestling ring. One of them is the Montreal Screwjob and we talk about it every 35 seconds or so. The other is the MSG incident, which I haven't seen a thread on in a long while if ever.

For those that don't know what it was, basically Razor Ramon, Shawn Michaels, Diesel and Hunter Hearst Helmsley all had a big hug in the ring at MSG after Hall and Nash's final show in the WWF. Michaels, being champion, wasn't punished, the other two were leaving, so Triple H bore the brunt of the punishment, an was basically held back for a year with his push going to Austin.

So my question basically is, if this hadn't have happened, what would the landscape of wrestling be like in the years immediately following?

For me, the extra year gave Triple H time to become the Triple H character, which has far more longevity than the snooty guy he was before. I think he benefitted a lot from it because it meant he could switch character before he was popular.

As for Austin, I think he would have made it to the top anyway, and while he would have been the biggest star eventually, he would never have feuded with Bret Hart and therefore may not have quite captured the hearts and minds of the WWE audience so well. What say you?

 

[Sparky]

I have always said that it this hadn't happened Austin wouldn't be as big as what he was. He would of been big but no where near like he is now. His main catchprase came just after he won the King of the ring. If this hadn't of happened he wouldn't of won it.

I don't think winning the KOTR has really done anything to benefit somebody so It wouldn't of affected HHH Much at all.

 

[klunderbunker]

Hard to say, but you could look at it two ways.

1. It would have been crippling. There's one thing you have to remember: Austin hit pure gold with the Austin 3:16 line. That one catchphrase was what got Austin over and it got the Austin character established. He went against every single thing that was represented by old school: tradition, old mentality, respect etc. With Austin saying that line, he was going against both an old veteran in Roberts and the Bible. That's hard to trump. It became the battle cry for Austin and his movement and was the spark for the Attitude Era with their rebellion against old school. Austin's character can be summed up by a famous movie line: "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore." That sums up Austin and the Attitude Era as well as anything else could. Without the catalyst of Austin 3:16, it's hard to say if those feelings would have been tapped into. They likely would have, but the key to the push was it happened so fast that no one could really see what was going on, which was what was needed. The rebellion saved the company, and I just can't imagine them surviving without Austin.

2. Not really. Austin was destined to be a star and it's not like anyone cared about HHH until he married Stephanie anyway. Look at some shows between him winning his first title and him drugging her amd the wedding. he has less heat than Antarctica in the winter.

Therefore in the end, I think I tend to lean towards the idea that it did make a difference. It opened the door for Austin, and without Austin, there likely is no WWE today. He carried the company to an extent that has never been done before and for the life of me I can't imagine will ever be done again. He reached a generation that was just fed up with the old mentality and wanted something new. Austin was that something new. I odn't think HHH was. So yeah, it made a difference, but just because it let Austin be the superstar the company needed him to be.

 

[J.Carter]

Yes. I'd put this right up there with the Montreal Screwjob with the most important events in the history of pro-wrestling. Ok Lets see:

The Austin 3:16 speech, Austin delivered the speech and it catapulted him to the top of the WWF. If this happened any later they might have never been a Bret/Austin feud and winning KOTR was the perfect way for it to happen. Who knows, it worked out better for HHH too. He might be making XXX tapes with Chyna for all we know.

 

[Mustang Sally]

It's ironic that HHH, who was upset because WWE wouldn't let him join his friends in Atlanta, wound up with the biggest break of his life because of it. Many folks speak only of HHH becoming successful by his association with the boss' daughter, but he had been playing the good soldier while putting over guys like Ultimate Warrior and Henry O. Godwinn long before that. If he had been allowed to follow his buddies to WCW, I doubt he ever would have become as big as he did, Stephanie or no Stephanie.

Fact is, though, the MSG incident and what followed opened up a spot for HHH to become what he is today. When Razor and Diesel left, a vacancy for a top heel opened up and Levesque stepped right in. Now, when he sits at home by the fireside (applying Pedigrees to his wife and daughters, no doubt), he probably tells the story of how his biggest disappointment wound up being his key to stardom. He became the King of Kings by not changing jobs.

Speaking of irony, I'm still amused when I think of HHH in the mid-90's; even though he lived in Nashua, NH, he was advertised as a blueblood from Greenwich CT ........ and now he really lives there.

What are the odds?

 

[WWEWrestleFest]

i don't think it would have made a difference in the long run. triple h would have won the king of the ring tournament, but he still wouldn't have been over with that snob gimmick. i think mable won it the year before, right? so just because you win king of the ring doesn't mean you're going to become the face of the company.

and austin was getting over huge. i'd say his match with bret hart at wm i think 13 helped him a lot more than the king of the ring win. triple h did win king of the ring the following ear, if i'm remembering right, but he still wasn't the breakout star that year.. the rock was. and sure, the austin 3:16 line sold a lot of t-shirts, but i don't think it was the catchphrase that put austin over the top.

 

[zman21]

its hard to say cause the triple h charecter wasent devolop at that point and it took another yr for fans to get behind him. austin was gonna be a star and would whether or not he would of won king of the ring that yr. the game probly would of not been as big of a star as he is today. luckly the incident happen. imagine if more inceident took place like that we could of had bigger stars out of guys like kennedy, mvp, kofi, and shelton benjamin

 

[RVDgurl]

The debate over the MSG incident always seems to center around the "what ifs" regarding Triple H and Steve Austin. My opinion on this particular piece of it is that it benefited both men. Austin happened to be in the right place at the right time and ended up becoming argueably the biggest name is wrestling history. Additionally, the Triple H character was able to develop which catapulted him to stardom.

This debate is all well and good, but I think it's secondary. I look at the MSG incident from a completely different perspective. In my mind, this was day the face of wrestling changed forever. Up until this incident, kayfabe was still held in high regard. The whole business was centered around it. That seemingly small gesture of a hug between friends broke every rule in the professional wrestling book. That gesture paved the way for storylines, angles and characters that were more realistic, which is something still done today.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

I believe it was one of the most impactful moments in wrestling history honestly.

The MSG Incident set Triple H back, who was suppose to have won the 1996 King Of The Ring. The up-and-coming Steve Austin was left to take that title, and with it one of the most recognizable quotes in wrestling history:

Austin 3:16


Say what you will, but Triple H was going to shine eventually in the WWF(E). It just so happens while he stepped back, another superstar took hold of a golden oppurtunity. I highly doubt Stone Cold Steve Austin would be such the household name if it wasn't for the badass moment that was the shoot promo of KOTR '96..

 

[maar130]

It's ironic that HHH, who was upset because WWE wouldn't let him join his friends in Atlanta, wound up with the biggest break of his life because of it. Many folks speak only of HHH becoming successful by his association with the boss' daughter, but he had been playing the good soldier while putting over guys like Ultimate Warrior and Henry O. Godwinn long before that. If he had been allowed to follow his buddies to WCW, I doubt he ever would have become as big as he did, Stephanie or no Stephanie.

Fact is, though, the MSG incident and what followed opened up a spot for HHH to become what he is today. When Razor and Diesel left, a vacancy for a top heel opened up and Levesque stepped right in. Now, when he sits at home by the fireside (applying Pedigrees to his wife and daughters, no doubt), he probably tells the story of how his biggest disappointment wound up being his key to stardom. He became the King of Kings by not changing jobs.

Speaking of irony, I'm still amused when I think of HHH in the mid-90's; even though he lived in Nashua, NH, he was advertised as a blueblood from Greenwich CT ........ and now he really lives there.

What are the odds?

Actually in 1998 he was posed with the option to jump or to renew his contract, got word of how things were run at WCW and decided to renew with WWE.

From there it just took of, passing form being a midcarter leader into the top of the card and eventuallly World title picture.

I think the incident atually made a big change for both, Hunter and Austin, it hit Austin right on time and it gave Hunter the opportunity to develop his background even more.

 

[theHeadliner]

Actually Michaels was fined $2500 and was ordered to apologize to every single wrestler and agent. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, so things would have indeed been different. Who knows, maybe HHH would have gotten a cheesy, over the top push that was dull to the fans and it could have stalled his career. Austin would have been floundering still. Endless what ifs..