Devil's Advocation; Daniel Bryan and the Royal Rumble

Zycho32

Pre-Show Stalwart
When the Royal Rumble ended with Batista the victor(and a largely underwhelming one at that) and Daniel Bryan a non-participant, I was easily one of the riled and disturbed. The reason had less to do with my enjoyment of DB but rather how the angle seemed to torpedo what the presumed storyline with DB was- after all, with Batista the winner and the 'automatic' lock to face the champion at WM, the door seemed to be closed. Or at least the conventional one.

Anybody that saw the long-term scope of the storyline would've bet on DB turning a corner and starting to get an upper hand on his 'demons' starting at the Rumble. I sure as hell did- I talked more than once about how the storyline was too obvious to screw with and how WWE played it straight when things were so obvious. Wasn't I the fucking dolt.

Now, with nearly two months of hindsight, I'm starting to second-guess my stance about the Royal Rumble and DB's proper 'role' in it.

From a storyline perspective, lets say we go conventional and have DB win the Rumble. He gets a ticket to face Orton at WM. So we have to go through two months of Raws and Smackdowns and the EC PPV... and really, where can you go with DB as the challenger-in-waiting? How many plots can the Authority really throw out to separate Bryan from his guaranteed shot? Stipulation Matches, Backstage Assaults, Guantlet Matches and Handicap Matches out the ass... what, instigate a repeat of the last four months prior? Maybe have him in a 1-on-6 match with the Shield and the Wyatts? Have Batista terrorize and brutalize the little pipsqueak at every opportunity?

This says nothing about Elimination Chamber, which would've been all but dead weight given DB isn't there persuing a title (imagine DB giving up his title shot to go for the belt a month in advance, which would have fans groaning from the moment those words left his mouth). Wait, don't mention the Shield/Wyatts match. Great as it was, it would be the cherry on the turd that would've been the Title Match.

Now, okay, I can nitpick Creative's means of getting DB into the title match as much as anyone (I found the hijacking of Raw to be a quick-and-dirty contrivance, which did nothing ultimately, for anybody involved, or anyone not involved- but I'm six degrees from Vince Russo anyways) but I do have to admit- DB was still involved this past month-plus since he was still in the title hunt, EC wasn't drug down by its lame duck status. In short, since DB wasn't set aside to just wait and get attacked over and over again, he still remained highly over with the crowd and the crowd remained red freaking hot.

Thoughts?
 
I'll get this out of the way, I am no Daniel Bryan fan but I feel as if the way the WWE booked this whole fiasco with Batista winning The Royal Rumble, Orton being WWE World Champion and Bryan continually being screwed out of the WWE World title has made the storyline what it is today. It's been a great mix of the fans and The Authority going back and forth on what's best for business.

Still don't think Bryan wins the title at WrestleMania though. I don't want to see him as WWE World Champion, I think he's too small and rather Vanilla, I'd rather see Batista as Champion but that's just me.
 
I don't think DB winning the RR would've affected EC very much, granted they have gone to the DB vs Orton well too many times. If anything I think it might've helped WWE since they were obviously hoping Batista would come in to a rain of cheers instead of boos, and him winning the RR right off his return is one of the things that turned him into the heel we're seeing today. Also if he was in the EC instead of DB and put on a short yet impressive performance there that could've also helped get some fans on his side.

Storyline wise they could've had someone challenge DB for his RR spot, Orton did it to Rey a while back so it's not unprecedented. Would've been better than that Batista vs ADR match at the very least. The Authority would stay in their tweener status until post EC where they can go to full on heel mode like they are now since they would be super-confident in whoever DB faced at EC. (Make it Kane with Maddox as the special guest ref or something) So as far as the beatdowns/handicap matches go that wouldn't be much different than what we're no doubt are going to see in the next 3 raws.

Actually now that you got me thinking about all this DB winning RR could've turned out great. Since now I could see instead of a "planned" triple threat match you put in HHH instead of Batista. It's perfect since HHH and Orton has been the 2 biggest roadblocks in DB's way and this sets up a huge challenge that on paper DB has little chance of overcoming. Best of all HHH would be able to carry himself throughout the whole match compared to Batista who would most likely leave DB and Orton to do most of the grunt work.

I admit there's some holes to this story that needs filling (like how to eventually turn HHH and Orton against each other during the match) but it does seem better story-wise and I believe we would've gotten a better WM main event out of it. Fresh DB, HHH and Orton vs tired+"injured" DB, Orton and Batista, who while is getting better(slowly) will still have plenty of ring rust come WM. And lastly they would have a set main event instead of one that could possibly change based on a earlier match, which now that I'm writing it actually doesn't sound all that great.

Thanks for reading. :)
 
Well the obvious storyline after a Bryan Royal Rumble win would have been to give him some closure on the Bray Wyatt feud by having them face off at Elimination Chamber. That would have given him a story to occupy him whilst he waited to see who won the Elimination Chamber match.

That of course hurts a potential Cena vs Wyatt match at Wrestlemania but if you really are getting behind a number one babyface than you don't stop to care about what it does to your heels, their job is purely to put over your top babyfaces at the end of the day.

I still think Bryan's booking/performances since Summserslam have hurt him and we'll see the effects of that in the coming months when the lustre of his underdog character wears off after he wins the title. He should have won the Rumble, should have beaten Bray Wyatt at Elimination Chamber and should win the title at Wrestlemania. It's obvious, it's easy, but it should have happened. Instead we've got a guy who lost his feud to Bray Wyatt (lost cleanly as well I might add), didn't win the Elimination Chamber and has pretty much bitched and moaned his way into a potential title win at Wrestlemania. It's hardly the stuff of legends are made of.
 
I'll get this out of the way, I am no Daniel Bryan fan but I feel as if the way the WWE booked this whole fiasco with Batista winning The Royal Rumble, Orton being WWE World Champion and Bryan continually being screwed out of the WWE World title has made the storyline what it is today. It's been a great mix of the fans and The Authority going back and forth on what's best for business.

I definitely agree with this. Whether it happened by accident or design - most likely the former - it's made for unique and compelling television in comparison to a more generic Road To Wrestlemania for the Royal Rumble winner.
 
Daniel Bryan in the Royal Rumble didn't have to mean Daniel Bryan wins the Royal Rumble. Fans in Pittsburgh made it known that they expected to see Daniel Bryan enter the Royal Rumble, they apparently felt gipped out of the ticket price. A successful storyline shouldn't include a disappointing card if only to not over-expose a particular athlete. Daniel Bryan enters and the crowd pops huge, after a long series of high-spots Batista eliminates him and the crowd dumps massive amounts of heat on Batista. I think that having Daniel Bryan in the Royal Rumble would have sent them home satisfied.

If Daniel Bryan won the Royal Rumble, it wouldn't have been difficult to write the show around that. Daniel Bryan has his match at Wrestlemania, it's a lock. CM Punk just left and Daniel Bryan has never had more going for him. HHH decides that he'll prove to the crowd that Daniel Bryan isn't worth their hype, and promises that he'll beat Daniel so badly at Elimination Chamber that the yes movement will die. They put on a Hell of a match, and HHH gets the win. After the match, the fans are still high on Daniel Bryan. HHH shakes his hand and suddenly has a lighter attitude.

Daniel Bryan's true fans, like me, don't expect much out of WWE creative. If we get Daniel Bryan in a match with a decent amount of time, we're happy. I realize that it's a little better to have the moment occur closer to Wrestlemania, and that going over HHH at Wrestlemania is a huge accolade.

I don't think it was at all wise on the WWE's part to not include Daniel Bryan in the Royal Rumble, I also don't think that it was wise to have Batista win the Royal Rumble for his return to the ring. Have Batista win it, but have him wrestle a few times before hand or maybe just have him as a special referee before hand. Give him something tangible before we're expected to accept him as a two time Royal Rumble winner.
 
I don't know why it would be difficult for them to write two months of television for the Rumble winner considering that's what they've done every single year since the Rumble winner went on to challenge at Mania.

The Elimination Chamber needs to move to the summer or to Survivor Series. It doesn't make sense to have your top guys risk injury so close to Mania and they have to work around the Chamber match when they're booking.. Or maybe it makes it easier for the bookers to throw a multi-man match together with not much thought needed while they concentrate on fleshing out the period between EC to Mania? The matches are normally great but give us something to look forward to later in the year instead of TLC or something.
 
Well the obvious storyline after a Bryan Royal Rumble win would have been to give him some closure on the Bray Wyatt feud by having them face off at Elimination Chamber. That would have given him a story to occupy him whilst he waited to see who won the Elimination Chamber match.

That of course hurts a potential Cena vs Wyatt match at Wrestlemania but if you really are getting behind a number one babyface than you don't stop to care about what it does to your heels, their job is purely to put over your top babyfaces at the end of the day.

I still think Bryan's booking/performances since Summserslam have hurt him and we'll see the effects of that in the coming months when the lustre of his underdog character wears off after he wins the title. He should have won the Rumble, should have beaten Bray Wyatt at Elimination Chamber and should win the title at Wrestlemania. It's obvious, it's easy, but it should have happened. Instead we've got a guy who lost his feud to Bray Wyatt (lost cleanly as well I might add), didn't win the Elimination Chamber and has pretty much bitched and moaned his way into a potential title win at Wrestlemania. It's hardly the stuff of legends are made of.

No, no, no, no, no. No. A Bryan-Wyatt match at EC doesn't just screw up Cena-Wyatt at Mania, it also takes away Wyatt Family-Shield at EC. And that's a crucial part to the Shield breakup and triple threat at Mania. And aside from the fact that heels are not just there to put over faces, this isn't just hurting heels, it's hurting story lines. You're taking away from two of the major story lines to do a third storyline in a different way that, at the end of the day, doesn't help it or make it better. They is a massive net loss and is a horrible idea.

No, instead we've got a guy who has been held back by the machine for months, who was kept out of the Rumble entirely, was screwed at EC by said machine, and ultimately forced his way onto the Mania card with the help of the Yes Movement. That IS the stuff of legends.

I definitely agree with this. Whether it happened by accident or design - most likely the former - it's made for unique and compelling television in comparison to a more generic Road To Wrestlemania for the Royal Rumble winner.

How is it likely the former? Daniel Bryan went on a Twitter and started the Yes Movement as soon as the Royal Rumble ended. Where was the Yes Movement going, if not where it actually went? It wasn't leading towards a Bryan-Triple H match at Mania, because a Triple H was originally going to fight Punk. You think Bryan was going to use the Yes Movement to...what? Get a match with Kane at Mania, after Kane finished his mini feud with Punk?

But you're right that this has made for a more unique storyline...which is why I have no idea why people don't like it. If Bryan had won the Rumble, beat Wyatt or whoever at EC, then won the title in a one on one match at WM, these same people would probably be complaining about how boring and predictable and overdone this story is. Sad, isn't it?

Daniel Bryan in the Royal Rumble didn't have to mean Daniel Bryan wins the Royal Rumble. Fans in Pittsburgh made it known that they expected to see Daniel Bryan enter the Royal Rumble, they apparently felt gipped out of the ticket price. A successful storyline shouldn't include a disappointing card if only to not over-expose a particular athlete. Daniel Bryan enters and the crowd pops huge, after a long series of high-spots Batista eliminates him and the crowd dumps massive amounts of heat on Batista. I think that having Daniel Bryan in the Royal Rumble would have sent them home satisfied.

If Daniel Bryan won the Royal Rumble, it wouldn't have been difficult to write the show around that. Daniel Bryan has his match at Wrestlemania, it's a lock. CM Punk just left and Daniel Bryan has never had more going for him. HHH decides that he'll prove to the crowd that Daniel Bryan isn't worth their hype, and promises that he'll beat Daniel so badly at Elimination Chamber that the yes movement will die. They put on a Hell of a match, and HHH gets the win. After the match, the fans are still high on Daniel Bryan. HHH shakes his hand and suddenly has a lighter attitude.

Daniel Bryan's true fans, like me, don't expect much out of WWE creative. If we get Daniel Bryan in a match with a decent amount of time, we're happy. I realize that it's a little better to have the moment occur closer to Wrestlemania, and that going over HHH at Wrestlemania is a huge accolade.

I don't think it was at all wise on the WWE's part to not include Daniel Bryan in the Royal Rumble, I also don't think that it was wise to have Batista win the Royal Rumble for his return to the ring. Have Batista win it, but have him wrestle a few times before hand or maybe just have him as a special referee before hand. Give him something tangible before we're expected to accept him as a two time Royal Rumble winner.

People are already complaining about Bryan losing to Wyatt, you think people would be happy with him getting eliminated in the Royal Rumble? Besides, that would really hurt his case for a title shot at Mania, and really hurt his entire Yes Movement. Remember, it all started as soon as the Rumble ended and Bryan went on Twitter saying the machine didn't want him anywhere near the Rumble match(which he actually said in an interview before the Royal Rumble too) and then called his fans the Yes Movement. That was the beginning of everything that lead to Raw being hijacked by the fans and Bryan forcing his way onto Mania. It still could've been done if he was eliminated from the Rumble, but it would've been a lot more difficult. Keeping him out of the Rumble entirely just worked better.

Sure, he could've won the Rumble. But what's going to happen to the Yes Movement then? The Yes Movement wouldn't even exist. The Yes Movement was created to get him on the card at Mania. In order to get the fans behind him as much as possible, it's better to have him out of the title match as long as possible. Do you really think the fans would be behind him as much as they are, as angry and passionate as they are, if they knew they were getting what they wanted a month and a half ago? Of course not. Yes, they'd still be supporting him, but the passion and desperation would certainly not be there. That's why they're not even confirming his spot in the title match, to draw it out as long as possible. It's brilliant.

Given that it was clearly better to have Bryan not in the Rumble, I would agree that Batists shoud've been more active before the Rumble. But, at the end of the day, Batista was going to be a heel eventually. And they knew that. No matter what they did, the fans were going to be behind Bryan, not Batista. So when you talk about what would have made fans accept him, he was never going to be accepted. And the WWE knew that. They were planning for that. They only would've needed Batista to be accepted if he was going to be a face going into Mania, and they didn't care if he was a face or not, because Bryan was going to be THE face in that match.

I don't know why it would be difficult for them to write two months of television for the Rumble winner considering that's what they've done every single year since the Rumble winner went on to challenge at Mania.

The Elimination Chamber needs to move to the summer or to Survivor Series. It doesn't make sense to have your top guys risk injury so close to Mania and they have to work around the Chamber match when they're booking.. Or maybe it makes it easier for the bookers to throw a multi-man match together with not much thought needed while they concentrate on fleshing out the period between EC to Mania? The matches are normally great but give us something to look forward to later in the year instead of TLC or something.

Who said it would've been difficult for them to do it? That doesn't even make sense. It wouldn't have been difficult for them to strip Orton of the title and give it to Bryan at some random house show, but that doesn't mean that's what they should've done. They're actually doing something different from what they do every year, something creative and original, and people are complaining about it? Like they don't complain every other year when WWE does the same thing every time? Yeah, that makes sense.

And why should they move EC? Talking about risking injuries makes no sense since there's really no greater risk of serious injury in an EC match than any other match...that's something the WWE plays up to hype the match, but it's not actually true, of course. People might be a little more sore after the match, but that's not going to affect Mania. And they don't "have to book around it," they get to include it in their booking. It's not like the EC is just thrown at them with no advance notice. They know it's there, they get to plan for it. It gives them another chance to advance storylines before Mania. It gives them a chance, on a big stage, to set up feuds that weren't set up at the Royal Rumble. That's a good thing for the bookers, not a bad thing. It helps them avoid having to put the champion in a one on one match, even though another contender is already set, and it helps them avoid having to really find something for the Rumble winner to do because they've already got enough going on. Before the EC matches started as a February tradition, how many times did we see the Rumble winner get put in a match where their Mania title shot was on the line? It happened way too often. Now it hardly ever happens. That's a good thing. Unless they get rid of the PPV between Rumble and Mania entirely, which will never happen having the EC there is perfect.

And the fact that you refer to EC as something to look forward to tells you why it's so good to have it where it is. You only look forward to it because it is where it is now, because of the importance that it holds every year. If it was in December instead of TLC, you'd look at EC the way you look at TLC now.

Anyway, the OP hit the nail on the head. It's really sad that what should be obvious to anybody who watches is referred to as the Devil's Advocate, and it really shows the sad state of the current IWC. All they do is bitch and moan, crying about how they could've done it better, no matter what the WWE actually does.
 
Even though I don't like how the fans have hijacked Raw for the last three months, I think the way they have got around it has turned out for the best.

People are saying that Daniel Bryan needed to be in the Rumble, win and go to Wrestlemania. How many times have we seen that before. It happens every year.

This year, suddenly something unpredictable happens. For the first time ever, the WM main event is not locked in as a certainty. We don't know if it is a Triple-Threat Match or a one-on-one match. Instead of Bryan v Orton match 3,00000, we have a situation that someone has to QUALIFY for the match on the night.

Think of WWE buy-rates. WWE can draw people into buying Wrestlemania XXX, without promising that Bryan will win the title. People will buy, because they don't want to miss the moment, if it happens. But no-one knows if it will happen.

There is a lot of predictability at Wrestlemania. Undertaker keeps the streak, we know the main event. Normally the main event is meant to sell a PPV. Well, the one they have at WMXXX may not, but the one they MAY have should could.

Plus, Daniel Bryan fights twice that night. Bryan can carry the load, and beating the head of the Authority, and then beating his two "A-Listers" in a Triple Threat would be the final hurdle to overcome.

You all could have had the same predictable, run-of-the-mill way of qualifying, where the champion fights the winner of the Rumble. Now, a third person may or may not be in the match. It depends on whether you have faith that WWE will do "what is best for business".

My question is, can you afford to not order Wrestlemania now, if there is a chance that Bryan wins the WWE Title?
 
Well the obvious storyline after a Bryan Royal Rumble win would have been to give him some closure on the Bray Wyatt feud by having them face off at Elimination Chamber. That would have given him a story to occupy him whilst he waited to see who won the Elimination Chamber match.

That of course hurts a potential Cena vs Wyatt match at Wrestlemania but if you really are getting behind a number one babyface than you don't stop to care about what it does to your heels, their job is purely to put over your top babyfaces at the end of the day.

I still think Bryan's booking/performances since Summserslam have hurt him and we'll see the effects of that in the coming months when the lustre of his underdog character wears off after he wins the title. He should have won the Rumble, should have beaten Bray Wyatt at Elimination Chamber and should win the title at Wrestlemania. It's obvious, it's easy, but it should have happened. Instead we've got a guy who lost his feud to Bray Wyatt (lost cleanly as well I might add), didn't win the Elimination Chamber and has pretty much bitched and moaned his way into a potential title win at Wrestlemania. It's hardly the stuff of legends are made of.
Your idea is boring as hell. The way he's been booked is great. This isn't 1985. Everyone knows it's a work. Everyone is on the internet. The booking made it look like WWE brass legitimately wasn't going to put DB in the title match. That's what we're conditioned to think. We're conditioned to think "he has to win the Rumble to get in". Then "he has to win a number 1 contender match to get in". I wouldn't be surprised if they came up with a way for him to lose to HHH and still get in the title match at Mania.

He's more over than he was before. You know who suffered from the traditional model of booking? Punk post Summerslam. He had a nice title reign to "build credibility". Know why? No one cares once the journey is over. It's like if after the Dark Knight ends, there is 45 minutes of Batman rounding up petty crooks. I am worried about what they do with DB once he wins the strap. I don't know what you do then. You probably have one or two months worth of title defenses before he gets screwed out of it again.
 
How is it likely the former? Daniel Bryan went on a Twitter and started the Yes Movement as soon as the Royal Rumble ended. Where was the Yes Movement going, if not where it actually went? It wasn't leading towards a Bryan-Triple H match at Mania, because a Triple H was originally going to fight Punk. You think Bryan was going to use the Yes Movement to...what? Get a match with Kane at Mania, after Kane finished his mini feud with Punk?

I've got no idea what the original plan was. I highly doubt that it was this, though. The Yes Movement struck me as quick, effective bit of damage limitation that evolved into something much bigger as it became increasingly obvious how flat Batista's return had fallen. That's not a critisism - diverting from the original plan for the good of the product as opposed to stubborn booking is a good thing. I always thought that WWE had big plans in store for Daniel Bryan, I just don't necessarily think that these were those plans.

Maybe I'm not giving WWE enough credit but if it was by design it was nothing short of genius. It's hard to see how WWE couldn't have had at least an inclination that the fans would expect to see Daniel Bryan in the Royal Rumble, but I've always thought that if they really expected that then Rey Mysterio would be the last person to come out at number thirty.
 
Who said it would've been difficult for them to do it? That doesn't even make sense.

Not sure what you're struggling to make sense of? The OP wondered what they would do with Bryan for two months before Mania if he'd won the Rumble.

"and really, where can you go with DB as the challenger-in-waiting?".

I'm sure the writing staff could have written a quality storyline or him. In fact, they probably would have written pretty much the same storyline, put up roadblocks for him, still stuck Batista in for a triple threat, made him gone through Triple H etc.

It wouldn't have been difficult for them to strip Orton of the title and give it to Bryan at some random house show, but that doesn't mean that's what they should've done. They're actually doing something different from what they do every year, something creative and original, and people are complaining about it? Like they don't complain every other year when WWE does the same thing every time? Yeah, that makes sense.

Where in my post did I remotely complain about how this storyline has currently worked out? I merely suggested that had Bryan won the Rumble, it wouldn't have stopped them from making the RTWM compelling. As it's turned out, this is the first WM in ages I've really cared about the outcome of the main event but I still think I'd have thought that if Bryan had got there by winning the Rumble. I was skeptical after the Rumble but Raw has really entertained me recently. I hadn't regularly been watching whole shows because I don't have much time at the moment but I've made sure I've got some time set aside to watch it now.

And the fact that you refer to EC as something to look forward to tells you why it's so good to have it where it is. You only look forward to it because it is where it is now, because of the importance that it holds every year. If it was in December instead of TLC, you'd look at EC the way you look at TLC now.

I do disagree with this, though. When they held that second EC in August 03 I looked forward to that. It would still be exciting held in autumn or the end of summer. I wouldn't look at it the same way as TLC because IMO the EC is a match which deserves it's own event whereas a PPV based around tables, ladders and chairs seems weak considering we used to see them so many times.

Totally agree that people putting their title shot on the line at No Way Out was lazy though.
 

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