Defining "Prime" - Andre vs Wight

[IrishCanadian25]

I plan to create a series of threads for some of the match-ups I will be watching to help define what I consider to be each wrestler's "prime." While many people will certainly vote based on a wrestlers body of work (certainly to the benefit of guys like Flair and detriment of guys like Lesnar), this tournament has always operated under the premise that the men would be wrestling each other in their primes.

I will start with Andre the Giant vs Paul Wight.

Andre the Giant's prime started in 1975 and lasted through roughly 1985.

During this period, Andre was pro wrestling's highest paid athlete, thanks in part to the fact that he was pro wrestling's biggest draw along side guys like Sammartino. Andre wrestled world-wide, in the WWWF, Japan, Mexico, and Austraillia. On August 2nd of 1980, he wrestled Hulk Hogan to a draw, and one week later, beat Hogan in under 10 minutes in from of tens of thousands of fans at Shea Stadium.

In September of 1981, Andre also wrestled an epic draw with Stan Hansen. Andre's only two major losses in his prime were to Canek in Mexico (Canek bodyslammed Andre then, long before Hogan did it, though at the time Andre was a leaner 475 instead of the 500+ he was when Hogan turned the trick) and Inoki in Japan. Aside from the Wrestlemania 2 Battle Royal, his last great performance before his body started breaking down to the Acromegaly was in winning the IWGP League Tournament, defeating legend Tatsumi Fujinami in the finals.

Andre won Pro Wrestling Illustrated Achievement Awards for Match of the Year in 1981 and 1988, and Most Popular Wrestler in 1977 and 1982.

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Paul Wight's prime started in 1995 and lasted through roughly 1996. Kidding, it was more like 1997.

During Paul's prime, he entered WCW as "The Giant" and was billed as the son of Andre the Giant. No, the irony isn't lost on me. He won the WCW World Title from Hulk Hogan in his DEBUT MATCH. He was the only thing that gave the Dungeon of Doom any teeth. He was a huge man, in terrific shape, able to slam larger foes and drop kick at will.

Wight won World War 3 in 1996, and was also named Wrestler of the Year and Rookie of the Year in 1996 as well. Runner up that year was some guy named Rocky Maivia. Whatever.

Wight remains - and always will remain - the only man in history to be WWF, WCW, and ECW World Champion. He should not be remembered as "The Big Show" or "Big Nasty Bastard" or any of his other WWF incarnations. He was a dominant force in WCW from his debut to his stint in the nWo.

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There you have it. Two men in their PRIMES. Let's not make this Wrestlemania 6 Andre vs Wrestlemania 2000 Show. They deserve better than that.

 

[Ferbian]

Great post IC, great to know something about Andre, I could really use it.

And I must admit I laughed at Piper's promo "this guy stepped on his dogs tail.. the dog died man" Piper was awesome.. WWE's version of Ric Flair mic wise (Yes I know he wasn't in WWE for long enough to call him a WWE "veteran" but what other way to compare to Ric Flair who'd be the NWA guy..

 

[Via Armbar]

Completely agree here with what the prime is of these two men. Wight was an incredibly beast in this time frame. More mobile than other big men that were inches and pounds smaller. When you look at Andre's body of work though, it's too overwhelming. You have, in my opinion, a better body of work to go off of. His prime lasted roughly a decade, where as Wight's lasted a fraction of that. Paul has had some good WWE moments, but he never looked the same as he did in say '96.

Everybody really should use these frames of time when thinking of both mens primes. If you didn't it would be like using 2003 Vader against 1997 Royal Rumble Mascaras. Both men way past their prime isn't fun for anyone.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

I have to say, the more I think about it, the more I think Wight should win. He was a complete beast during his prime, I forgot how good he looked. The again, he's fighting Andre and he in his prime was violent as hell and 'undefeated'. Difficult choice.

 

[Tenta]

Paul Wight's prime started in 1995 and lasted through roughly 1996. Kidding, it was more like 1997.

During Paul's prime, he entered WCW as "The Giant" and was billed as the son of Andre the Giant. No, the irony isn't lost on me. He won the WCW World Title from Hulk Hogan in his DEBUT MATCH. He was the only thing that gave the Dungeon of Doom any teeth. He was a huge man, in terrific shape, able to slam larger foes and drop kick at will.

Wight won World War 3 in 1996, and was also named Wrestler of the Year and Rookie of the Year in 1996 as well. Runner up that year was some guy named Rocky Maivia. Whatever.

Wight remains - and always will remain - the only man in history to be WWF, WCW, and ECW World Champion. He should not be remembered as "The Big Show" or "Big Nasty Bastard" or any of his other WWF incarnations. He was a dominant force in WCW from his debut to his stint in the nWo.

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Silly IC, have you been reading by John Tenta Memorial for Terrible Gimmicks? Because that's pretty much what I said, not only there, but also in his battle with Andre last year.

One bone to pick; The Giant's dominance ended right at 1997. As a matter of fact, I'll pinpoint it. The Giant was never the same after losing to Lex Luger at Starrcade. Then, WCW had no idea how to book him, and he became the largest JTTS in the world, losing to Hogan, Luger, Nash, and any other big name WCW had to offer, really. Probably from too many ciggies and getting out of shape. There's plenty I can say about The Giant's dominant run, but we'll save that for match time.

Just know this, ten years of dominance is always greater than one

 

[Tenta]

I have to say, the more I think about it, the more I think Wight should win. He was a complete beast during his prime, I forgot how good he looked. The again, he's fighting Andre and he in his prime was violent as hell and 'undefeated'. Difficult choice.

How about this.... The Gian't prime was never that great.

There, I said it. It was good, but not great. He never beat Hogan and Savage clean, as IC would like you to believe. In fact, the only name he beat clean on this list was Ric Flair. That's it, really. Hogan got screwed by Jimmy Hart, and Savage's matches with the Giant resulted in:

A. Hulk Hogan coming out with a chair and getting Savage disqualified.
B. The nWo running in on Savage, when Randy had him beat clean in the ring.

All the others I'll discuss later, but don't be swayed by IC's fancy words. Andre really was better, and more dominant

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

How about this.... The Gian't prime was never that great.

There, I said it. It was good, but not great. He never beat Hogan and Savage clean, as IC would like you to believe. In fact, the only name he beat clean on this list was Ric Flair. That's it, really. Hogan got screwed by Jimmy Hart, and Savage's matches with the Giant resulted in:

A. Hulk Hogan coming out with a chair and getting Savage disqualified.
B. The nWo running in on Savage, when Randy had him beat clean in the ring.

All the others I'll discuss later, but don't be swayed by IC's fancy words. Andre really was better, and more dominant

true, very true. Andre as you said was on top for ten years and did beat pretty much every known entity in the world. The Giant never quite beat those big names by himself. Again it's really tough.

 

[Via Armbar]

Here's the thing: It is possible to have a one year prime be better overall than a 10 year prime. You've had guys wrestling for over a decade and haven't done what Lesnar did in a matter of two years. There's many factors that go into what makes one prime better than any other. There's one big difference between the dominant primes of these two men.

Andre didn't eventually lose to the men he went over. Wight did, multiple times even. Andre's only losses in his prime like IC said were to Canek and Inoki in Mexico and Japan respectively. So his only losses were to the national heroes of the places he wrestled in that night. I'm not trying to make Wight sound like a jobber, but you can't say that he never jobbed to the wrestlers he defeated. Sure he went over Hogan and others, but it's not like it didn't happen the other way around down the road.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

During this period, Andre was pro wrestling's highest paid athlete, thanks in part to the fact that he was pro wrestling's biggest draw along side guys like Sammartino.

Was he one of Wrestling's highest paid athlete's due to being great or due to being unique in size (aka: a side show attraction)

Sammartino = good, some would say great.
Andre = large in size, with minimal talent. Which made him unique, for size alone.

I'll watch the videos you posted later when I have a bit more time. And re-decide if I've come to the conclusion that Andre is worth more than a nickel and dime fee, to see with some Elephants and clowns.

On August 2nd of 1980, he wrestled Hulk Hogan to a draw, and one week later, beat Hogan in under 10 minutes in from of tens of thousands of fans at Shea Stadium.

And oddly enough, Hulk Hogan didn't become the "Hulkamania born Legend" everyone knows him best for.. until 3 years after this, in 1983. Which means, defeating Hogan in 10 minutes in 1980 = Edge defeating Vader in 5 minutes on Sunday Night HeAT in 1998. (pointless, because it wasn't during one of their prime's)

Also, for what its worth.. the Shea Stadium situation is listed as this on Wiki..

Hulk Hogan claims in his autobiography that he and André the Giant were the reason for the Shea gate. However, Sammartino/Zbyszko sold out everywhere they wrestled leading up the show. Hogan and Andre wrestled in White Plains, New York, drawing 1,200 in a building that held 3,500 as the main event before they wrestled at Shea

So, the bigger part I'm interested in.. is how Hogan/Andre, performing in front of a HUGE crowd at Shea.. couldn't even produce half the arena's attendance in New York.

I don't consider blaming Hogan for this, because once again he wasn't in his prime. Yet I do consider this a main reason to view Andre as nothing special, and only unique and "popular" due to his abnormally large size.

One bone to pick; The Giant's dominance ended right at 1997. As a matter of fact, I'll pinpoint it. The Giant was never the same after losing to Lex Luger at Starrcade.

Just know this, ten years of dominance is always greater than one

And yet The Giant, since 1997, has went on to win the WWF Heavyweight Championship. ECW Heavyweight Championship, and defeated several notable names in the Wrestling Industry.. including; Triple H, the Undertaker, Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, The Rock and many others.

Just because he wasn't the Main Event for 10 years, doesn't mean he wasn't just as dominating in every match he's had.

Yes, he had moments of stupidity where bad angles and stupid storylines had him up against Spike Dudley, and Rey Mysterio - when in truth, he'd kill both within minutes. The fact remains, Paul Wight (aka The Big Show) is more dangerous than Andre the Giant.

There, I said it. It was good, but not great. He never beat Hogan and Savage clean, as IC would like you to believe. In fact, the only name he beat clean on this list was Ric Flair. That's it, really. Hogan got screwed by Jimmy Hart, and Savage's matches with the Giant resulted in:

A. Hulk Hogan coming out with a chair and getting Savage disqualified.
B. The nWo running in on Savage, when Randy had him beat clean in the ring.

Now, when you posted this, did you fail to recall the following match.. or hope everyone else would simply forget it?

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Seems to me that The Giant, in 1998, not only defeated - cleanly - Randy Savage. He pretty much squashed him in under 10 minutes.

Finally, I have no idea who said it - because I suddenly can't find it. Yet I swear I recalled someone saying neither man can use their top moves on the other. Big Show's current top move is a right hook, that knocks his opponents out cold. He can still, very much so, use that.