Crowds

[DaNewGuy]

I thought about it, and decided that this was probably the place to put this as its about WWE crowds rather than crowds in general. However, if I'm wrong please move it. Thanks.


In the past crowds seemed to generally be alot 'hotter' than they are now. If you look back at the shows you have from the past then you'll likely see what I mean. In the Hogan Era Hogan, The Ultimate Warrior etc. got some loud pops. In the Attitude Era it was Austin/Rock/DX and even the mid-card. If I take Backlash 2000 as an example (purely because I have a it here on VHS) the crowd were loud almost all night. They even cared about the cruiserweight match. When The Rock came out to main event the show against Triple H he got a fantastic pop. If I compare that to this year then the fans wouldn't give a rats rump about two cruiserweights in a twelve minute match. When Triple H came out to main event this year as the top babyface his pop was nowhere near as impressive. Even if we take Cena as the 'top guy' counterpart to The Rock then his pops still don't reach the same level. Cena gets a reaction, but it's not a Rock/Austin/Hogan reaction. So why are crowds less enthusiastic than they used to be? Or is it all in my mind, and crowds are still popping the same?

 

[The Doctor]

I don't understand why TV crowds aren't as excited these days. I went to a house show in Flint, Michigan yesterday and the crowd was INSANELY loud. There were Primo chants, for God's sake!

I can't explain it. Maybe it has to do with location.

 

[OIL]

It's because they're all little kids. They'll wet themselves for Cena or Hardy, but give them a few wrestlers who they've never heard of and they won't make a sound. That's the problem with being PG. The kids have NO INTEREST in learning about the other wrestlers, so they get no reaction. It sucks. Honestly, more adults need to go to live shows.

 

[twiztid_lestat]

I've seen this going on for years, and honestly, It takes away from the product as a whole.
I hate the term, Mark or Smark or any of that crap, We're all fans, bottom line. But it seems like they care more about getting on TV with some half witted chant or some stupid joke on a posterboard than enjoying the show.

Its sad, boring and flat out embaressing that the crowd would rather spend money for the tickets to get a quick glance on camera and a fucking beer in their mouths than pay attention to the work those guys and gals put on for us.

Japan fans always have been and ALWAYS will be the more appreciative fans and the ones that understand the product so much more than us

 

[CripplerFrogSplash]

In my opinion... it's all been down to the amount of kids who can't & probably don't want to be excited by it. They see it on TV & see it live & view it as the same thing but just a bit louder, although with me... I bloody loved the fact I could shout things out loud & people could hear it.

I actually remember the crowds from my first WWE TV Taping & my latest one, they were entirely different.

April 23rd 2007 (A week before Backlash 2007): The crowd were jumping around like crazy & shouting their heads off... everyone made an effort to get themselves heard, even the people behind me (who kept shouting T-N-A in unison during matches). There were a few kids there but not as many as there was the latest time

April 21st 2009 (A week before Backash 2009): Almost everyone was silent during the matches... except for when CM Punk, Jeff Hardy or Undertaker made an appearence, there was no atmosphere created... all because there were little kids there. All the people my age & up were going mad as dogs with excitment... & there was a few kids next to me who just sat next to there Dad's looking as bored as hell... EVEN when Cena came on they only went mad when he entered, then shut up when he was wrestling... damn kids...

 

[JimmyLeviathan]

I don't know about you but the crowd for the last episode of Smackdown! was as into it as I've ever seen, shit even Kane got heat. But I have noticed that crowds are lackluster these days and I think there are a lot of reasons for this.

Location is a big thing. You'll notice when the WWE go overseas that the crowds will go insane because they rarely get the opportunity to see live wrestling. American crowds are now totally saturated with the product and it's a case of 'seen it all, who gives a fuck'.

I will say this though: it certainly doesn't help the product when the Internet fans in attendance just boo the faces all night, start TNA chants and cheer when Chris Jericho calls them hypocritical parasites.

Wrestling will always draw kids, the difference between today and 10 years ago is that wrestling is now solely targeted at kids. Look at the crowds from the Attitude era - as into it as you'll ever see. Why? My guess is that people cheer when something means something to them. You can't expect a decent crowd reaction from older fans when they feel as though the product has been cheapened by being pushed towards little kids.

From a marketing perspective, kids have almost no brand loyalty, they're simple to please but they'll only cheer what they know is cool. They view wrestling in a superficial manner, they don't get the deeper meaning from wrestling that we do and probably won't watch it in 5 or 6 years time when it isn't cool anymore.

Look at the Hall of Fame ceremony, how many kids were in attendance there? Fuck all, and the crowd reactions were bigger than some of the matches at Wrestlemania, why? Because acknowledging these wrestlers and giving them the recognition they deserve means something to older fans, so they cheer.

Crowd reactions were once the lifeblood of the industry, now the WWE can get away with a shitty product because they have no competition and can suck on the tit of the advertisers. The wrestlers and the matches have to mean something and the WWE have either forgotten this or don't give a fuck.

 

[Klown_Karnage]

I think there's one element that should be addressed in regards to this question. I'm not certain whether TV and Live crowds are being differentiated here. Naturally, when we see this stuff on TV we're going to get a far more subdued-sounding crowd given that the folks in TV-land have edited it for us so that we can hear the wrestlers themselves better. That may make the crowd sound a lot weaker than they actually are. But then, perhaps I'm overthinking this.

Either way, I think the rest (location, age, and laziness) has already been touched on. Eh, I guess it's incentive for us true hardcore fans to be all the more loud for the ring gladiators we like.

ALL HAIL THE SCREAMERS IN THE STANDS!

Okay...I'm done now.

 

[The Brain]

So why are crowds less enthusiastic than they used to be? Or is it all in my mind, and crowds are still popping the same?

It is not all in your mind. The crowds are nowhere near as enthusiastic as they used to be. A few years ago I watched an old Saturday Night's Main Event from 1987. There was a match between the Can-Am Connection vs. Nikolia Volkoff and The Iron Sheik. There were no titles on the line and the teams didn't have a real feud going on. It was just a mid card tag team match. The crowd was insane for this. The fans were just happy to cheer for the good guys and boo the bad guys. I use this match as an example because today a match like this would be meaningless and likely a bathroom break for a lot of fans.

The crowd adds so much to a match. Would Hogan vs. Warrior be looked at as fondly if the crowd wasn't into it? Most think this was a great match, but it was pretty basic. It was the crowd reaction that made this match memorable. Same with Hogan vs. The Rock. Just compare Hogan vs. Rock to Triple H vs. Jericho from WrestleMania X8. If you could edit the crowd reaction and switch them around it HHH vs. Jericho would be remembered as the epic match. A hot crowd can make a good match great. A dead crowd could make a good match seem bad.

I'm not sure why the crowd reaction isn't as good as it used to be. I'm sure it has to do with kayfabe being killed a long time ago. I wish the hot crowds would come back. It would make the show more exciting even if there were no real changes.

 

[samboisdead]

I dont think you can blame this problem on the kids. WWE in the 80s was twice as much for the kids than the current PG program we have going. Back then just about everyone had a goofy gimmick. We even had a wrestling cartoon back then. And the pops back then were insane from the top of the card down. I blame it on the internet really. Why the internet? Well now you can look on Youtube and see how to take bumps and everything. Even your average 7 year old knows it is all a work now. When I was 7 heck when I was 11 I would fist fight another kid for saying wrestling was a work now everyone knows. People are still into it just not as much and I no the Attitude era got huge pops but when they broke kayfabe the smarks loved it started coming to the shows and being very loud now the smarks hate the product so they arent as loud and the kids dont get as excited because they are smarks themselves now. Plus I can jump on a wrestling site like this one and find out everything thats going to happen on any show or PPV 2 days before it takes place, that doesnt help things.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

I think the answer is rather obvious ... and no it isn't just "in your head".

WWE's crowds seem a lot less enthusiastic because they ARE less enthusiastic about the type of programming they are seeing ... compared to back in the Attitude Era and Hogan Era.

They have taken their very first step towards becoming like a Japanese crowd who sits and watches the matches in silence ... while giving polite applause when they see a move that they feels deserves it. And sadly, when you watch crowds like this, it doesn't make for a very exciting ambiance whatsoever. It's actually pretty downright depressing.

The crowds are not as enthusiastic over what Vince has done to the WWE product, as far as making the weekly shows more wrestling-oriented. I don't know who is going to really dispute this. You can be of the opinion that you, yourself enjoy the new direction of the WWE are in enthused by it, but how anyone can say that the crowds as a whole are as enthusiastic about it, is simply not being honest.

There was absolutely no comparison whatsoever between today's crowds vs the crowds of 10 years ago. They come to the shows, but they sit watching the action and seem as if they would be rather watching paint dry.

This is exactly why when people complain about "bad crowds" in each of these cities ... it isn't the crowd's fault whatsoever. The provider has to simply give the customers what they want, if they want better reactions. Vince has to do that IF he wants better reactions from the crowds. However, something tells me that he isn't too concerned with crowd reactions. Ratings and money is what he is concerned about.

But it is rather depressing unfortunately watching what has transpired with these crowds over the years. Sadly, I can't blame them too much, as it is the product that is causing this ... not simply the crowds.

 

[MammaJamma22]

I dont think you can blame this problem on the kids. WWE in the 80s was twice as much for the kids than the current PG program we have going. Back then just about everyone had a goofy gimmick. We even had a wrestling cartoon back then. And the pops back then were insane from the top of the card down. I blame it on the internet really. Why the internet? Well now you can look on Youtube and see how to take bumps and everything. Even your average 7 year old knows it is all a work now. When I was 7 heck when I was 11 I would fist fight another kid for saying wrestling was a work now everyone knows. People are still into it just not as much and I no the Attitude era got huge pops but when they broke kayfabe the smarks loved it started coming to the shows and being very loud now the smarks hate the product so they arent as loud and the kids dont get as excited because they are smarks themselves now. Plus I can jump on a wrestling site like this one and find out everything thats going to happen on any show or PPV 2 days before it takes place, that doesnt help things.

I've heard a lot of people blame the Internet for wrestling's poor output over the past several years, but this has got to be one of the worst theories. So just because you learn how to take a bump online, suddenly that means people lose interest in the product? That would be like saying once you learn how Hollywood stunts are performed in movies that you would no longer attend movies. Could the Internet be blamed? -- Possible...I know I certainly don't. I certainly wouldn't say that simply because you can learn the mysteries of the biz that it gives you less reasons to cheer.

 

[MammaJamma22]

As a side note, and since we're speaking about bad crowds.......does it bother anyone else when you're watching two mid-carders put on a great match, but some people are chanting "boring?"

Seems like every live event I attend -- be it for tv or just a house show -- this always happens.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

As a side note, and since we're speaking about bad crowds.......does it bother anyone else when you're watching two mid-carders put on a great match, but some people are chanting "boring?"

Seems like every live event I attend -- be it for tv or just a house show -- this always happens.

That's because not every fan in the audience is there to see lengthy matches. They are there simply to be entertained. That could mean being entertained through riveting characters, intriguing angles, promos, matches, etc.

Pro wrestling really is so much more than just wrestling. There is definitely an art involved to it. The key is to find the perfect blend of character development, storyline, promos, and matches. It can't be just all one or the other.

As far as the matches themselves, some people like fast-paced spot matches (I think a lot of people, actually) ... and others like slow methodical matches. Not everyone has the same tastes in wrestling. What is good to you may be simply average to boring to somebody else.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I think the point I was going to make has already been said. A lot of the WWE fans are younger than the people attending shows 10-15 years ago. Most of them care about the likes of Hardy and Cena, but show little interest in the tag team division or the mid carders wrestling. They're there to see their favourite wrestler, and aren't going to care much until they see them.

Regarding the "Boring" chants, I really dislike them. I liken it to booing your favourite football or rugby team, simply because they're losing. I just don't think it's fair to do something like that, just because there aren't people being hit with chairs during the match or the wrestlers don't have some facepaint on.

 

[YoYoYumba]

I think the answer is rather obvious ... and no it isn't just "in your head".

WWE's crowds seem a lot less enthusiastic because they ARE less enthusiastic about the type of programming they are seeing ... compared to back in the Attitude Era and Hogan Era.

They have taken their very first step towards becoming like a Japanese crowd who sits and watches the matches in silence ... while giving polite applause when they see a move that they feels deserves it. And sadly, when you watch crowds like this, it doesn't make for a very exciting ambiance whatsoever. It's actually pretty downright depressing.

The crowds are not as enthusiastic over what Vince has done to the WWE product, as far as making the weekly shows more wrestling-oriented. I don't know who is going to really dispute this. You can be of the opinion that you, yourself enjoy the new direction of the WWE are in enthused by it, but how anyone can say that the crowds as a whole are as enthusiastic about it, is simply not being honest.

There was absolutely no comparison whatsoever between today's crowds vs the crowds of 10 years ago. They come to the shows, but they sit watching the action and seem as if they would be rather watching paint dry.

This is exactly why when people complain about "bad crowds" in each of these cities ... it isn't the crowd's fault whatsoever. The provider has to simply give the customers what they want, if they want better reactions. Vince has to do that IF he wants better reactions from the crowds. However, something tells me that he isn't too concerned with crowd reactions. Ratings and money is what he is concerned about.

But it is rather depressing unfortunately watching what has transpired with these crowds over the years. Sadly, I can't blame them too much, as it is the product that is causing this ... not simply the crowds.

Best comment I've read on here so far. Lord Sid is entirely right. It's the quality of the product that's the problem but it's a shame that all Vince really cares about is all the millions that his racking in...gotta expect that though I guess, he is a business man first and wrestling fan second. I also believe alot of it has to do with the age demographics of the crowds nowadays. All the kids will do is just cheer when they see Cena and Hardy come out and then be silent pretty much till they do their finishing move. The parents aren't going to start any chants or create any atmosphere either because their probably just there to spend time with their kids and probably couldn't care less about the wrestling....pretty sad but true.

 

[Baximus]

Best comment I've read on here so far. Lord Sid is entirely right. It's the quality of the product that's the problem but it's a shame that all Vince really cares about is all the millions that his racking in...gotta expect that though I guess, he is a business man first and wrestling fan second. I also believe alot of it has to do with the age demographics of the crowds nowadays. All the kids will do is just cheer when they see Cena and Hardy come out and then be silent pretty much till they do their finishing move. The parents aren't going to start any chants or create any atmosphere either because their probably just there to spend time with their kids and probably couldn't care less about the wrestling....pretty sad but true.

About 80% of this is that the majority of the fans right now are kids. Ten years ago, wrestling was awesome for anyone over 14. People came to the show wanting the scream at the bad guys, cheer for the good guys, start some innapropriate cheers and enjoy some fun matches. The 18-35 demographic LOVED going to live shows, TV or not.

You also had classic feuds with stars that people really loved or hated which drew things in more. They were larger than life with their gimmicks (yes, even HHH is a gimmick. Remember Hunter Hearst Helmsley?) and people ate it up. No one wants to cheer for someone wrestling under their real name outside of very few situations.

Now you have parents who go, "Look Timmy 5 year old, there's John Cena. He fights bad guys and is nice and you can learn a life lesson from him. Yay!" And then they just sit there. And watch. And sit there. And watch. And glare at people starting semi-inappropriate chants yet get all excited to jump up and yell "SUCK IT" when DX tells them to.

In short, its the people who were huge fans 10 years ago because it was edgy and pushed the line and now they don't want the line near their kids.

Wait until Vince turns Cena heel. Half the crowd (the attitude fans) hate him and Vince is waiting and waiting to make Cena into a bad guy to try and make him like Hogan's nWo turn part two. That's when things get good again.

Can you imagine Heel Cena just cleaning house for like 2 months and romping fools and having all these heartbroken kids booing him and all of a sudden Vince shells out 30 million bucks to the Rock to come back for a year and all of a sudden things get cooking again..........


In regards to the 80s: All about the kayfabe and gimmicks. Plain and simple. Escapism at its finest.