Criticizing the Best: The Undertaker

[#hamler]

Over the past couple of days, I've brought you wrestlers who have made wretling what it is today. Today's edition features one of my all time favorites So take it easy.

PART FOUR of my "Criticizing the Best" series. No matter how perfect the said Superstar is, criticize him. Now's your chance. Feel free to rip posts apart piece by piece.I want a dicussion here. Please, explain your answer and don't Spam. This thread, you have a chance to criticize...

The Undertaker​

"The Phenom", "The Deadman","The American Bad Ass","The Red Devil","Big Evil","The Man from the Dark Side","The Lord of Darkness","The Demon of Death Valley"-- The Undertaker. One of the best in ring performers of our time. The Undertaker is a former 3 time World Heavyweight Champion as well as a four time WWE/F World Champion. The Undertaker's 18-0 undefeated Wrestlemania Streak was voted by "The Mirror" as the 7th best streak in sports. 'Taker has won numerous prestigous awards during his illustrious career such as the Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame class of 2004. The Undertaker has truly done it all in the ring accomplishment wise.

The Undertaker's a perfect example of WWE taking an unknown guy and turning him into a hall of fame worthy Superstar. The Undertaker has feuded with and put over several guys such as Mick Foley, Kane, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, The Rock, Edge, Randy Orton and other stars he helped build. The Undertaker's loyalty, not only to WWE, but his fans as well really shows when he pushes himself. Undertaker's getting up there in age, and i ,for one, will be satisfied once his career is over. The Undertaker is one of the best promo cutters currently and is often overlooked with his mic skills and talking ability. The Undertaker has no doubt left his dent on the wrestling world. But is it all perfect as I see it, probably not. Which leads to the discussion questions;

What is one flaw you see in The Undertaker?

Would fixing this flaw make The Undertaker any better than he already is?

If you see no flaw in 'Taker, state why. And please don't fuck up my thread with spam. Explain. Feel free to rip posts apart piece by piece, I want a discussion here.

Discuss this shit

 

[Ferbian]

Well I guess there's quite a few things to criticize about The Undertaker.

First of all, I think that when Undertaker is being the Deadman he tends to have rather bland promos. Sure it's most likely due to his character in general, but I tend to find them nowhere near the level of what he could cut during his American Bad Ass gimmick, which were some pretty good promos.

Also, in the past years he have gotten more and more injury prone. Sure he's older and have been in the business for over 20 years. But I still think it's kinda sad to sit around and know that "Damn, he's injured.. again". It's not something he can do anything about, sure he wants to stick around because he can still go, and he loves the business obviously. But maybe there should be a bit of a limit to what extend you put your body on the line if you're gonna spend your entire year either on the bench, or wrestling with nagging injuries.

 

[hdchz013]

I have to admit....The Undertaker is my favorite wrestler....wait...change that...Mark William Calaway is my favorite wrestler. But I'll be the last one to say that he is flawless. I do believe that even at the age he is, he is a tremendous performer. Everything I've read about him tells me that not only is he professional inside the ring, but he is professional outside the ring as well.
I'd say that if I had to pick one of his "flaws" that I would have to pick his promos. I do believe that he is perfectly capable of making his promos much more "dark and mysterious". I do know he has the potential to have MUCH better promos than he currently (when he is on) has.

 

[WWTNA]

The Undertaker is with out a doubt the best in the WWE today. Its hard for me to say anything about him but the rules are the rules. One flaw Undertaker had was his wrestling in the 90's. He wasn't really a good wrestler back then as he would move slow and throw bad selling punches. TBH, his matches on Raw were like bathroom breaks for me. This flaw would not change or make him better then he already is. With the success with his Deadman gimmick and his American Badass gimmick, he will still be an icon and future legend regardless to how bad he was in the ring back then.

 

[xBANEx]

Honestly, I never was a Undertaker fan but I didn't mind him up until the recent years. He scared the shit out of me as a kid, but other than that, mer. Boring.

Just random little things about the character bug me. Five minute entrance, always talking about taking souls, etc., I understand it's his character but after ATLEAST 15 years of more or less the exact same thing it starts to get quite boring, don't you think?

Infact, it's why I'm not a fan of HBK, Triple H OR Taker. And why I get a lot of funny looks when discussing wrestling with peers.

 

[TimAH]

I didnt like how even when going back to the deadman gimmick the undertaker retained his biker gimmicks striking style. Seems like a bad combination.

 

[legendkiller1979]

The only real problem I have with Undertaker is the fact that over the last couple of years it seems he is only around to keep the streak going. He almost immediately takes time off after mania. I am a fan but enough is enough. Unless they put him in the ring with John Cena, the undertaker's mania match is a non factor. There's no way the streak is going to end and Cena is the top guy. It would be like Hulk Hogan and Andre the Giant as far as anticipation. Even with HBK I never believed for one second he was going to lose. Since the streak is only reason for the Undertaker to keep going. I think it's time to hang it up.

 

[Trill Co$by]

One I always thought about... he's a one-trick pony. Don't get me wrong, I love the Undertaker and if there was anything from the Attitude Era that I would love to see come back it might be the American Badass... but at the end of the day both of the gimmicks are the same in a sense. As the American Badass, he was still "the deadman" he just had a bike and wore less black. The really isn't much more than a good gimmick and someone who can do that gimmick well. I love his in ring ability, I love his promos, but in the end if there's one thing I can admit about him, it's that he is a one-trick pony.

 

[Klown_Karnage]

It's difficult for me to criticize The Undertaker because, to be honest, he's one of my favorites. He's well respected in the locker room (and for good reason) he's managed one of the most legendary gimmicks which would have looked totally ridiculous on anyone else, he's been able to be one of the most dominant wrestlers in the WWE while constantly getting a helluva reaction and he can frankly do it all when it comes to the actual ring-work.

Still, I think my one criticism is his lack of candid interviews. I understand the concept that he wants to keep the illusion while playing the Deadman gimmick and being himself might ruin things for some fans, but it's my view that people know by now that the people in the ring are playing characters and, let's face it, the Deadman gimmick is probably the most unrealistic one in the WWE today. I do respect his devotion to his character (and the company) but that doesn't mean I don't want to know what he's really like. During that short period when he was Big Evil/American Bad Ass, we actually got a taste of what he's really like (or at least closer to it.) I liked that. I wanted to see more. Even Kane has no trouble giving a candid interview as Glen Jacobs and being himself, so why not 'Taker? I guess that's my only criticism, but as for the rest, I have nothing but praise and respect for the guy.

 

[ablestwin]

I love the respect the Undertaker is getting in this thread. If only teh Interwebs at large were this forgiving.

Unfortunately, this thread wasn't designed to blow a man the IWC at large has been blowing for 20 years now. This is a chance to say what's up!

Biggest problem I've had with the Undertaker, and someone made mention of this earlier, is one trick pony. I'll grant we saw THE LAST RIDE (come on, a powerbomb is exciting these days?) and the gogoplata (We get it, you like MMA), but outside of that, we've seen the same moveset more or less since 1994. Worse than that, I was impressed in the mid 90s when I saw a man his size walk the ropes, or tope suicida, or even the lame half flip clothesline, but to see the lackluster, feeble caricatures of these maneuvers today is a lot like trying to watch Flair or Hogan perform anything besides a chop or body slam. Even if he would've accepted that with age/weight/injury problems he couldn't do this and modified his in-ring performance, I'd think better of him.

Also, it has been said that his character limited his promo ability; that by being a dark lord with his soul tied to an urn, somehow that means he can't be creative on the stick, when we've certainly seen faint glimmers of the fact that he can. I don't know if it's that he's not comfortable in the role of claiming souls or just that his heart wasn't in it, but for all the bluster, his promos sucked. He should've never said a word and just let Paul Bearer handle sounding like a doofus. That was his job in the first place, anyway.

Lastly, and I'm sure this will get a lot of heat, but I take issue with the Wrestlemania streak. Even if we forgive that this is sports entertainment and not sport, even if we forgive that WWF/E created an unkillable monster, even if we forget the myriad injuries and the age (hate to harp on it, but seriously, the man walks more and more like the Great Khali every day) it is amazing to me that no one has beat this man at 'Mania. After about 10 wins, he stopped drawing my dime because I was sure no one would ever beat him in a match that counted. It's not unakin to watching a Nationals - Yankees World Series: sure, the Nationals got to the big event, but do you honestly think they're going to come out on top?

Plenty of good memories tied to the Undertaker, lots of respect for what he has done over the years. Also, we went to the same high school (albeit about 20 years apart). If I were to write a thesis to this post, however, it would be "So long and thanks for all the memories - 1999".

 

[LSN80]

Its frustrating to see, and it may not be his fault, but he can't seem to stay healthy over the past few years.

Following each of the last two Wrestlemania's, he's taken significant time off to heal from injuries. Before that, he dropped the title to Edge on a MITB cash-in in 2007, due to injury. He missed most of the summer with a broken orbital bone. As of right now, he's taking more time off to deal with shoulder surgery. It's hard to maintain his gimmick, that aura of invincibility, when you're injured so much.

Other then that, its really hard for me to find fault with the "Deadman." One of the greatest wrestlers of all time.

 

[supaman5279]

There's not much to criticize about The Undertaker. For a man his size, some of the moves he breaks out is unheard of. Him and HBK making huge high-flying spots in their 2 Wrestlemania matches is nothing to complain about. Complaining about his injuries is petty. We should be lucky enough that he's still around. His character being one-dimensional is what has kept it going for so long. It's consistent, and delivers almost every time. He is also a big MMA fan, which he tries to incorporate in his move-set, which is always improving and growing, which is more than I can say or the majority of the superstars who have come and gone in the last few years.

In my opinion his one flaw was already fixed. He is not the American Baddass, he IS THE DEAD MAN. But even with his character change came the Last Ride, Takin' Care of Business(Dragon Sleeper), and now with his return to the "dead man" gimmick, the Hell's Gate(gogoplata). It also gave us an official name for "Old School(top rope walk)."

Undertaker will no doubt, be in the WWE Hall of Fame, and go down in history as one of the best ever. I also don't see him returning after it's all over with(a la "legends" like Flair and Hogan). So enjoy the dead man while you still can, cuz being a little south of the big 5-0, means that it's only a matter of time before "The Undertaker" RESTS IN PEACE!!!!!

 

[quagmire]

Its frustrating to see, and it may not be his fault, but he can't seem to stay healthy over the past few years.

Following each of the last two Wrestlemania's, he's taken significant time off to heal from injuries. Before that, he dropped the title to Edge on a MITB cash-in in 2007, due to injury. He missed most of the summer with a broken orbital bone. As of right now, he's taking more time off to deal with shoulder surgery. It's hard to maintain his gimmick, that aura of invincibility, when you're injured so much.

Other then that, its really hard for me to find fault with the "Deadman." One of the greatest wrestlers of all time.

You can spin it as he rises to take a soul and then goes back to rest in hell until he is called on again. Real life, he is injured, but that gives an explanation on why his character disappears.

I would say my issue with Undertaker is that he needed to spend more time as a heel. I loved his heel run as the Lord of Darkness with the Ministry of Darkness, Big Evil, etc. I think he cut better promo's as a heel because it gave his promo's more to work with( Lord of Darkness wouldn't work as a face). I would love for him to do one more heel run with Kane. Win the tag team championships, cause chaos, etc.

Other than that, 'Taker is my favorite character.

 

[DiscipleofWrestling]

Undertaker is definitely one of my favorite wrestlers, if not my favorite period. The first wrestling match I ever watched was Undertaker tombstoning a jobber on Wrestling Challenge and putting him in a bodybag. From that moment, I was hooked into pro wrestling. So, it's fair to say that Undertaker is a major reason I became and still remain a wrestling fan to this day. However, he does have flaws.

The main flaw I would say with Undertaker now as opposed to years past is that there hasn't been an evolution in his character in the last 7 years. Since coming back to the Dead Man gimmick in 2004, he's essentially stayed the same the entire time. I know many are wondering what I'm talking about. Look at Undertaker in 1990 and then look at Undertaker in 1994. There was an evolution there in the character as to how it was growing. Same thing with the years from 1996-1999. The Undertaker was constantly changing and molding his image to fit the tone of the product, maybe reaching its true climax with the birth of the Ministry of Darkness. Undertaker created his own cult. Of course, this was coupled with his worst moment as well: becoming 2nd Fiddle to The McMahons.

While Undertaker's move set has changed over the years and Taker is having as good or better matches than he did even in his prime, Undertaker's character hasn't changed one bit since 2004. It's been classic Deadman this whole time. And while it's great to see Undertaker still embracing the dark side as a character, it would be nice to have WWE continue to move the character a little forward even in the waning days of his career.

They might be doing that with the burial of Undertaker on TV that happened last month. Whenever Taker's been buried in the past (3 times if I remember correctly), each time, he has debuted a new version of himself. So, WWE might be remedying this situation by debuting a new version of the Undertaker.

This is just a small complaint though as Undertaker deserves all the respect in the world for what he's been able to accomplish for as long as he has been able to accomplish it in. He's one of the very few performers that worked with WWE through the 90s and early 00s and never switched companies (yes, I say that knowing he was in WCW early in his career). When you say the word respect in professional wrestling, Undertaker comes to mind immediately.

 

[Xemmy]

The constant injury- due to his old age, is this man's only flaw. And it's really not something that can be helped.

As far as I am concerned, The Undertaker is the greatest wrestler of all time. Alot of people will always say Hogan, and six years ago, it would have been. But here in 2010, no man has put over as many guys, been more company loyal, and stayed out of trouble the way the Undertaker has.- He's been main event level for the last twenty years, being completely believable as a main eventer the entire time (Unlike some people, that just need to retire and never be seen again e_e).

His undefeated Streak is basically equivilant to having a World Championship around his waste. His gimmick is arguably the greatest of all time. His entrance is the greatest of all time, and he has inspired more speciality matches than any other wrestler I can think of.

Casket Match
Body Bag Match
Hell In a Cell Match
Inferno Match
Buried Alive Match
The Last Ride Match

All these accomplishments make him him the closest thing to perfect as a wrestler can get.

 

[Dyno Kid]

Yeah the promo's are stale but for me I'd have to kill the Deadman for the ring entrance ! ENOUGH ALREADY ! Get to the ring !

When he's coming out I know I have enough time to go to the bathroom and take a dump, wash my hands, go get something to eat and drink, and by the time I get back to the couch he's at the ring steps ! If he only did it at Mania then I'd say it was fine.

 

[ashe draven]

damn, well i thought about this 4 awhile. the only flaw i can tag against UT is that he cant have a GREAT match against anyone, ala bret hart/shawn michaels. but god who can??other than that mark is one of the best all time. ppv matches, entrance, world titles, the STREAK, all the novelty matches, one the best characters of alltime. its a very minimal flaw.

 

[The Ace of Knaves]

I first started watching WWE in 1996 and the first feud I saw was Undertaker vs Diesel at Wrestlemania 12. Ever since that day, Undertaker is the sole reason I watch WWE and when he's finally done with WWE for good, so am I.

Nonetheless, if there's one thing I consider to be a flaw of the legend....is the fact that The Streak has basically overshadowed every other thing he had done in his career.

Sure, it IS legendary! Its popularity is undeniable. When u go the show and look at the live crowds who supported Taker with their banners, u don't see them showing " Undertaker invented Hell In A Cell" or "Undertaker is the only man who feuded with Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold, The Rock, and Brock Lesnar" or "Undertaker's gimmick last for 20 years" or "Undertaker threw Mankind from the top of Hell In A Cell" or even "Undertaker retired Shawn Michaels", no!

You see, "18-0, who's next?" or "Undertaker, 18-0" or simply "18-0". That pretty much shows us which legacy is more cherished by the fans. And yes, it is understandable. But what irks me is the fact that nowadays, at least 80% of the fans believe Undertaker is nothing without The Streak. WELL, THAT IS WRONG!!!

The Undertaker is what makes the streak important, not the other way around. Undertaker is worthy of being undefeated because of everything he has done for the business both backstage and on-stage and his overall loyalty. The streak was most likely not planned for the Undertaker in the beginning but it was later expanded into his character because he had done so much for the company and didn't take titles in exchange. When people like Goldberg and Kozlov take an undefeated streak, it means nothing except overhype but when Undertaker makes his undefeated streak, it signifies respect.

The Undertaker has achieved countless things that only a few wrestlers have and its a fact that they have been overshadowed by his greatest accomplishment of 'em all, The immortal Undefeated streak at WrestleMania.

I would have said that he holds the 7th greatest winning streak in sports which is the only streak ranked in the system from professional wrestling but then, it would again be about his undefeated streak.

The Undertaker has helped a lot of new wrestlers, a lot of new matches that are now counted as one of the greatest gimmick matches like Buried Alive, Hell in a Cell, Last Ride and lots more. Throughout the future of WWE, these matches will be used and whenever they will be, The Undertaker will be the one that will come up to the old school wrestling fan's mind. Thus, he has achieved stamped his name on most of great match types.

Coming to wrestlers, Masked Kane is one of the greatest legends of wrestling, and who is the one that made that legend, The Undertaker, he helped Kane make his debut, he faced Kane twice at WrestleMania to add a lot to the short but great career of Masked Kane.

Defeating Mr. WrestleMania twice in a row at WrestleMania is not something every Tom, Dick and Harry can brag about. It is another great accomplishment by The Undertaker. At least, I do respect him for that.

Gave pro wrestling industry two great gimmicks that will never ever be duplicated which are The dead man and ABA. No other gimmick can even come close to the classic aspect of these two gimmicks.

What I despise is the fact that WWE has hyped the streak to unbelievable lengths. They have made the streak overshadow absolutely everything The Undertaker has accomplished. What about the 20 years of sweat , blood, and tears? What about everything The Undertaker has done in his career? The Undertaker's wrestling ability is something to be mentioned. The Undertaker's greatest Wrestlemanai streak matches come from The Undertaker's ability to have successful matches with the majority of his opponents. Without The Undertaker's athleticism and ability to perform, his streak would be meaningless. The Undertaker has been so fascinating to watch at Wrestlemania. He has shown power, he has shown brutal strikes, he has shown athleticism with aerial maneuvers, etc. The Undertaker deserves far more credit than his streak.

Some of the dumbest reasons I heard from Undertaker fans on why he is the greatest wrestler ....EVER is the streak. And that all they would give. So it makes you wonder, if it wasn't for the streak, would you still be fans? Me, I've always been the guy where, Hey, if Taker loses the streak, the only thing I would care about is, was it a good match. Not really who it is. (The reasons I'm against Wade Barrett or Sheamus for the streak is simply because I'm not sure they can't deliver. If they could, I''m perfectly fine with it). If he lost the streak, it might not be as bad as many would say. Its not like if he lost one match now, he would becoming the biggest fail in wrestling history. Fans would start to acknowledge the other things he has done. Multiple title wins. Might I add, Multiple Tag title wins. Innovator in a lot of matches, made to suit his gimmick. A lot of things. Now, there are a lot of people that want the streak to live, Simply because they feel he deserves it. And indeed he does.

None the less, its a little unforunate that The Streak plays such a "mythical" role over his career, cause this guy deserves a lot more credit besides the streak.

 

[themusicman]

I have a great deal of respect for him as a performer and definatley think he is one of the greatest we have ever seen. This may be controversial to say but his American Badass gimmick SUCKED! I mean really badly, he lost so much momentum, no-one cared about an ageing biker gimmick and it had no relevance to anyone outside of the U.S. something which is not the case with The Deadman gimmick which is pretty much universal. Its well know that he hated the Badass character too and was happy to get back to his old ways. Oh and joining VKM's Kiss my ass club, that was pretty poor.

 

[DeathClutch]

I wouldn't say my vice with Undertaker is a flaw but in my opinion he should revert back to the Human Undertaker, he's meant to be a deadman walking yet EVERY match he has he looks absolutely crushed at the end of it (and rightfully so) but his image of a beating man doesn't serve his persona/character any justice, personally I would be happy if Undertaker bowed out now and made special occasions like Wrestlemania & MSG but his long term wrestling days are numbered why not give him time off and continue on with the streak, for his mid 40s he's in fantastic shape but how long can his body hold up? as i said before he looks broken down after every match nowadays.

 

[fredstephenson]

takers probally my favourite wrestler ever but if he has any flaws i would say his current deadman gimmick is it it was awesome when he first started all thoses years ago he was actually creepy but now it feels a bit half arsed almost like he doesnt want to fully commit to the gimmick he still dresses pretty much like the american badass but talks in the slow scary voice when he does promos when he first started even the way he moved around the ring was sinister and suited his gimmick

as much as im an undertaker fan it all seems a little cheesy now he should either go full deadman again or just revert back to the american badass cause at the moment hes more of a hybrid of the two they could even have him be a ministry style undertaker again that might work better aswell

 

[harrythem]

For me my main problem is the same one I've had for a few years with The Undertaker, and that is that, no-one gets the rub from him. Yes he loses and can put people over (like he did with Brock Lesnar) but, him aside, there has been very few, if any guys, that've got the clean rub from the Taker. He's that much of a legend (rightly so in certain respects) that he overshadows the whole show he's on which, when it comes to getting that huge star for SmackDown, hampers the process.

Also think he was a cunt for how he treated the WCW guys he wrestled in 2001 (basically destroying all of them who faced him). It might not have been his call to do it but he had enough tenure he could've at least got DDP and the like a bit more room to not wash out straight away

 

[The Ace of Knaves]

For me my main problem is the same one I've had for a few years with The Undertaker, and that is that, no-one gets the rub from him. Yes he loses and can put people over (like he did with Brock Lesnar) but, him aside, there has been very few, if any guys, that've got the clean rub from the Taker. He's that much of a legend (rightly so in certain respects) that he overshadows the whole show he's on which, when it comes to getting that huge star for SmackDown, hampers the process.

Also think he was a cunt for how he treated the WCW guys he wrestled in 2001 (basically destroying all of them who faced him). It might not have been his call to do it but he had enough tenure he could've at least got DDP and the like a bit more room to not wash out straight away

No one gets a rub from facing Taker after Lesnar? Err...then what do u call his WWE Feud of The Year 2005 with Randy Orton and his feud with Kennedy in 2006? Although we could see Orton utilized the push a little better if u know what I mean.

Regardless, I admit his attempt to push Heidenrich, Mark Henry, The Great Khali, Big Daddy V, and Vladimir Kozlov all fell flat on its face...

 

[multiverseman.com]

1. The Streak is kinda dumb to me. It'd be one thing if they were all title matches. It wasn't even an issue until they started making it an issue and pushing the fact that he hadn't lost at WM. He NEEDS to lose this time though and make a new star with it (I say Wade Barrett) in order for it to have meant anything. If he'd never lost at the Royal Rumble, would anybody actually care about it?

2. He needs to bring back aspects of the American Badass character. Not all of em, but some of em. People won't admit that there were some very good things about it. Especially that, in real life, that's basically how he is. Plus the promos are better that way.

 

[lonewolfhc]

wow i reamber like 5 to 6 year ago people were wanting the old taker back and wanted old school now everybody crize him for going back. i really dont see any thing wrong with take. That man has chaged more then anybody. The only flaw i see is i think he deserved to be champion more.. That what bugged me about him was nto so many title. Every wrester always brags im a 5 time chapion or ric flair 16 or what ever champion with out all those title win would they be that great who know. But go back to wena take debute with brother love and go threw the year he evolbed that how you servie. people get bored taker mite have 2 -3 year left who know. personly i like ot see the old purple gloves again but then agian people who say he slow and stuff i think hand down he the only werester besdie mick foley that really has tryed to imporve his carcater and yes has put people over that shodunt of been put over he is the legend all over