Could Reigns improve as a wrestler and give us great matches?

[AegonTargaryen]

After all the innumerable Romans Reigns threads and discussions and IWC animosity and how Vince said "screw you" to all of us, here's what I feel about Roman Reigns(and a pretty solidified feeling at that):-


1)Reigns can be truly tolerable to good on the mic based on his recent "I'm THE GUY" self-centred pure masculine force character.

I had the "Reigns is awful on the mic" feeling for so long that I had made my mind. Roman Reigns on the TV/mic would be a channel-changer. However, honestly, the recent promo with AJ Styles...I noticed that Reigns' demeanour had changed during the entrance, he sort of had a "the guy" vibe to him which I could really feel. What I'm basically saying is that Roman Reigns truly has something about him- he's as much of a star based on his presence alone as he sucks in the ring. And out comes AJ Styles and he looked like half trucker and half fisherman. NOT A WRESTLER at all and that's on Styles and his dressing sense. Reigns also owned him on the mic and on that night, Reigns proved to me that even though he'll never be The Rock or CM Punk on the mic, he can at least be the supremely confident, nearly arrogant douchebag and be better than AJ Styles on the mic(which was quite evident).

2)Reigns truly resembles a world champion.

Again, this is based on the last two Raws. Like him or hate him, when Roman Reigns comes out through the ramp as the WWE champion, no matter how deafening the boos, he truly seems to have this champions aura about him.

3)Reigns is pretty limited in the ring.

Obviously, I don't want him to be Daniel Bryan or Bret Hart, or wrestle like Randy Orton did.

What I've realized lately, and this is what I felt while watching Raw as well, is Reigns is sort of Undertaker-esque the way he wrestles. By that I don't mean anything satanic but:-

His black attire, hair, the way he stands erect and stares at the opponent stiffly mid-match or pre-match, his flying clothesline(the variation of superman punch?), the suicide dive, the uppercuts are all pretty Undertaker-esque. I'm not saying he is copying The Undertaker but that he resembles his wrestling style somewhat, deliberate or not.

Obviously, Undertaker has been a terrific wrestler and given us so many good matches despite being a guy who is 6'9, 320 lbs. But when he wasn't paired with the greats like HBK or Kurt Angle or Bret Hart, most of Undertaker's matches were yawnfests. Seriously, who among you is ever gonna watch Undertaker vs Mabel or Kama matches from IYH? Or most of his stuff pre-1996 when he was mostly put against behemoths?

But I digress. Back to Reigns.

I have never watched a single Roman Reigns match which I found even somewhat entertaining(I am yet to watch the Daniel Bryan-RR match from Fastlane), let alone extraordinary or captivating.(I tried to watch the Reigns-Wyatt match from Battleground on numerous occasions but it felt like such a boring match that I'd lose focus) Obviously, the only things Roman Reigns does(and he did the same last night on Raw) are punches, strikes, consecutive-clotheslines in the corner, flying clothesline, superman punch, a variation of that he does outside, and the spear. May be I omitted the BODY SLAM but isn't that IT?

In contrast, The Undertaker was such a supremely captivating wrestler in all his 30-minute matches. From the suicide dive to old school to submission moves, he was a pretty solid wrestler. Just as Batista.

Why can't or hasn't Roman Reigns incorporated any of that in his arsenal? I'm talking about the Spinebuster, the running power slam, or any of those moves. He also needs a "ring psychology". The babyface-is-beaten-throughout-the-match-and-resurrects-himself-and-wins-the-match is one of the most atrocious formats that wrestling matches are booked in. (cf. John Cena) I for one was a huge fan of both Randy Orton and The Undertaker's match psychology in big match situations.

But can/will Roman Reigns do any of that?

More importantly, will he ever give us 20-minute matches that are watchable or captivating, or will all his matches only be whatever we have seen so far, which is 20 minute tediousness?

I want to see Reigns excel as a champion/performer as I feel that he is truly unique and has both the looks and presence that few wrestlers in history are endowed with. He's also fluid/agile in the Undertaker-esque way which I mentioned above. But his moves set makes him pretty dull and I think he could be at least as good as Batista as a power wrestler, provided HE/THE WWE do something about it.

 

[Starkist]

I honestly do not see too many flaws in Reigns. I think the dude has been put under the microscope only because he is Vince's "one." He can wrestle, can talk, can put on good matches and all around is talented. He might not be the best on the roster but this is where the scrutinizing comes into play.

Reigns has big shoes to fill on trying to be "the Man" in WWE. His character was an extremely watered down version of the Rock. Once people found out the relation between the two, Reigns was cut down. He might not be the Rock on the mic but he is not as bad as everyone makes him out to be. Yes, the sucatash line was bad but props for him going through with saying. That is something that gets often over looked with Reigns. He does what he is told to do while probably knowing it is completely awful. That is a strong suit with Reigns.

Reigns can wrestle well as well. His facial expressions are good. He is believable in his roll. He can sell, move well and uses moves that fits his build. Now he might do the 5 moves of doom but so don't a lot of WWE wrestlers. Reigns could possibly go twenty minutes in the ring but does his character call for it? Is there anyone that should test his limits in the ring time wise? To me, Reigns is supposed to be a bad ass. A Goldberg type wrestler but with more wrestling. The route he went on RAW yesterday was really good. He needs to just be an in between guy. Someone who is just a badass that is all about the WWE WHC. Nothing more nothing less. That would really work for him so hopefully he stays in that direction.

I think Reigns is a solid wrestler who gets more crap than credit. He may not be the main guy but that is WWEs issue. They relay on a main guy not many guys. Reigns will get over and have a better run than Jack Swagger and Dolph Ziggler have had.

 

[midgensa]

I think this is a decent question and I think the consensus ... including you ... that he is not good in the ring is a little off base to be honest.

His match with Brock at WrestleMania 32 was fantastic. It was great storytelling on both sides and if he had won there it would have been a solid way to do it (though I was very happy with the Rollins cash-in). Reigns has a bigger set of moves than people give him credit for, but as a face, most of the match is about the struggle and then overcoming it with the popular moves.

I think a perfect example is John Cena. Some claim he is 5-moves-of-doom or whatever. But over the years he has picked up a ton of new and innovative maneuvers and made his arsenal quite large. He consistently puts on very good matches with top performers, whether people want to admit it or not.

I feel that Reigns can easily do this. He just has to tell the story. There does not have to be spectacular moves for a match to tell a story. He was telling the story in the WM 32 main event and it was working. I think Reigns is learning on the fly and this new "I am the guy" persona that is giving the fans the bird plays a little more to his strengths. I am very interested to see where this title reign goes.

 

[nwocongo]

I think this is a decent question and I think the consensus ... including you ... that he is not good in the ring is a little off base to be honest.

His match with Brock at WrestleMania 32 was fantastic. It was great storytelling on both sides and if he had won there it would have been a solid way to do it (though I was very happy with the Rollins cash-in). Reigns has a bigger set of moves than people give him credit for, but as a face, most of the match is about the struggle and then overcoming it with the popular moves.

I think a perfect example is John Cena. Some claim he is 5-moves-of-doom or whatever. But over the years he has picked up a ton of new and innovative maneuvers and made his arsenal quite large. He consistently puts on very good matches with top performers, whether people want to admit it or not.

I feel that Reigns can easily do this. He just has to tell the story. There does not have to be spectacular moves for a match to tell a story. He was telling the story in the WM 32 main event and it was working. I think Reigns is learning on the fly and this new "I am the guy" persona that is giving the fans the bird plays a little more to his strengths. I am very interested to see where this title reign goes.

Very good good point. I've never thought he was some masterful in ring technician obviously, but I never really agreed with the camp who acts like he is so terrible, he't necesarrily good but he isn't awful either. He could definitely add some moves, but something to keep in mind is that the writers and booking/agents sometimes neuter these guys as to how much they think the talent should be doing in the ring. Look at Ambrose, he is much better in the ring then what he shows on WWE tv, they want him to get in, do his little signature moves that pop the marks (chop-punch, slow motion rebound clothesline, slow motion suicide dive, elbow drop, dirty deeds) and get out. Being a larger guy like Reigns, that's all the more reason for him to not do "too much" and just look tough in creatives eye's, ex. look at all the stuff Roidback or Cena have added to their respective repertoires over their time on tv.

Reigns is a good athlete so there's no reason that he should not improve over time. That being said even if he becomes a good worker, there will probably always be those who refuse to acknowledge his skill because they don't like him as there are still those that try to deny Cena is a decent in ring performer.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I know your claim that he is not good in the ring is strictly an opinion so you're going to get people you just plain disagree with you.

I also know that there are many who disagree with you that he hasn't already put on at least a few great matches.

I also think it's asinine to think someone can't ever improve enough to put on great matches eventually unless they're physically limited by injuries or something else.

But in the end, I also know you're one of those posters that thinks, "it's my opinion so it must be everyone's opinion," so I digress.

He could definitely add some moves, but something to keep in mind is that the writers and booking/agents sometimes neuter these guys as to how much they think the talent should be doing in the ring. Look at Ambrose, he is much better in the ring then what he shows on WWE tv, they want him to get in, do his little signature moves that pop the marks (chop-punch, slow motion rebound clothesline, slow motion suicide dive, elbow drop, dirty deeds) and get out.

And this is another great point. Too many idiots around here think the amount of moves a wrestler does determines their abilities. It's one of the most flawed thinking on this board. Ambrose is a great example because he does less moves than damn near anyone. In fact DB was also a great example. They limited his moveset down so far that his matches were just as formulaic and predictable as anyone else's. Does that mean DB is a bad wrestler? It's called management being smart enough to not let guys get too crazy in the ring. It would only increase injuries.

 

[Navi]

Yes he truly does look like a champion and he has the look of a wrestling God, and believe it or not his ring work isn't as bad as some give him credit for. Reigns has two bigger issues which one can be worked on the other well it will might never happen.

His first issue is his connection with the audience, it's just isn't there yet. It will come in time but for some reason he isn't resonating with fans. He appeals to to the female fan base, and quite frankly they don't give a damm if he just stands there and looks good, he doesn't have to do squat and they're happy. He appeals to kids, but he's got some stiff competition from Cena and Bryan still. Add to the fact if he turns heel, it might turn some of them off. Men are mostly in one of two camps, either they outright hate the guy for reasons only known to them, or they have no respect for him. But as I said these are things that can be worked on and fixed.

The issue that can't be fixed from the outside and has to come from him himself, is the fact that unlike a lot of his family members is that he's kind of boring. The Rock could come out and talk for an hour and people are entertained. The Uso's are also very entertaining. The HOF speech they did for their father was gold. So when you compare him to the family members that have come before him, and to a couple like the Uso's, he comes up very flat. There seems to be a natural charisma that exists in the Samoan gene pool, Reigns just has to find it and activate it. This isn't something he can be taught, it has to come from within him and until it does it will adversely affect him.

Everyone wants him to turn heel, and he was a heel with the Shield, but with the Shield a lot of what he does and doesn't do was masked by Rollins and Ambrose. Reigns has to step away from the Shield and he's starting to do that. He has to develop his own personality and maybe then the fans will come round, but this push has damaged him, as I said it would when it first started. He just wasn't ready yet.

He could be something special, if they give him the time to develop naturally and not rush through things. I mean shit you don't go from Grade 1 straight into University, and that's what they've tried to do and it's come back to bite them in the ass.

One thing is for sure his new line of "I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm the guy." will get tiring quickly and only works while he's holding the title, branching out is sometimes not a bad thing.

 

[Gallops77]

I personally like Reigns, but I see where people can be frustrated with him. I don't think it's him, but the idea that Vince is SO adamant on making him THE GUY that they are shoving him down our throats on a weekly basis.

He's become Cena 2.0, where the odds are stacked against him and he still comes out on top.

I think what Reigns needs is a good heel run. Look what it did for Randy Orton. When Orton FIRST turned face, it was a MAJOR flop. He turned heel a few months later, and eventually the crowd turned and cheered him until the Authority turn. Same thing with CM Punk. His initial run as a face was blah. He became a heel, had the Straight Edge Society, then the Nexus, then his pipebomb and the crowd adored him. I even worked for Cena when he first started out.

I don't think Reigns is terrible in the ring. He moves well for a bigger guy. I just feel like a heel run would do wonders for his career. I think it would help add moves to his arsenal as well.

 

[Un-Bo-Lievable Jeff]

When you look down the line, not every solid champion was exceptional before it. Austin used to get stick for his moveset, and it was a pretty limited one.

Now I'm not comparing Reigns to Austin, but I think there is another reason people don't like Reigns and that's because they know he isn't the best, and they would give him all the time in the world to get better, but a lot of people simply feel there are better wrestlers/entertainers than him.

Now I don't agree that simply because someone is the most popular, they should be on top but that's how some people see it and in a world of social media, people will express their opinion and feel they should be listened too.

Always come back to the same issue, these people who moan, watch so they can moan. If it was really that bad, they would stop watching. They boo Reigns, but watch in the hope he is beaten

 

[Phenomenal]

Reigns definitely needs to improve, that was obvious from his performance at WM 32 with HHH who cannot carry a paper bag to a good match unless it involves blood and weapons.

He is the only person in the company in my opinion with the X factor, his appearance screams out superstar whereas everyone else is mid card at best. I definitely see him improving in the coming future and making a lot of money.

 

[Blade]

Reigns already has a handful of great matches under his belt. Perhaps more than Cena had at this point of his singles career. Hell, Reigns' match against Lesnar is better than any singles match Rollins has had.

Being in the position that Reigns is in now is a sink or swim scenario. He's either going to get better and better, like Cena, or he's gonna flop under pressure, like Sheamus. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. But I'd put my money on the former. Because it's not smart to bet against Vince McMahon, as insane as he may be.

 

[justinept]

Reigns has had good matches in the past. So it can be done! His biggest issue, imo, is that the majority of his matches are too similar. He's following a template created by Hogan and used over the past decade by John Cena. There's a laziness to that, and whether it's Reigns doing it on his own or creative booking the match to go down in that manner, something needs to change. This doesn't mean he needs to add more moves or that he needs to have crazy spots in his matches, but he just needs to start telling a different story in the ring on a nightly basis.

Though there are some other reasons that Reigns get booed, I'd say that the template-based, formulaic matches that he typically provides is the biggest reason the fans have rejected him.

 

[Gallops77]

Reigns has had good matches in the past. So it can be done! His biggest issue, imo, is that the majority of his matches are too similar. He's following a template created by Hogan and used over the past decade by John Cena. There's a laziness to that, and whether it's Reigns doing it on his own or creative booking the match to go down in that manner, something needs to change. This doesn't mean he needs to add more moves or that he needs to have crazy spots in his matches, but he just needs to start telling a different story in the ring on a nightly basis.

Though there are some other reasons that Reigns get booed, I'd say that the template-based, formulaic matches that he typically provides is the biggest reason the fans have rejected him.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

Again, another reason he needs a heel turn. Not to say being a heel makes you a better wrestler but it allows you to do moves a face typically wouldn't do, you don't have to do the "epic comeback" ala Hogan, Cena etc. I think Reigns as a cocky, smashmouth, borderline monster heel would do wonders for his career. Win matches decisively not all with typical heelish tactics. Just be THAT much better than his opponent, like Lesnar has supposed to have been until fans turned that around.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Inside the ring, Reigns isn't bad. Just because he doesn't work at a lightning pace, do variations of planchas or suicide dives, do springboard moonsaults or dropkicks doesn't mean that the guy isn't a good wrestler. I frequently enjoy many of Reigns' matches and I've seen him have what I'd consider a handful or two of genuinely great matches. In order to put on a great match, it also takes more than just one person as whomever you're in the ring with has to do their part as well.

My biggest problem with Reigns is that I haven't been particularly invested in him because I've seen no reason to be and WWE hasn't been giving me a reason to be until very recently. It looks like they're going for the slow turn for Roman Reigns and I think that's a good thing because he actually could have a persona; he's been walking with a bit more of a cocky swagger, his mic work has been kept short, sweet and to the point and that plays to his strength. He comes off more like a "bad guy", as it were by flat out acknowledging that he's not a "good guy" and I think he'll become more situation if he begins using some underhanded tactics. As a babyface, Reigns is just flat out bland and his persona seemed to be based around nothing more than Vince seeing him as this good looking stud and he's someone that the system of society as a whole just doesn't peg as an underdog fighting an uphill battle against a corrupt system. Reigns is a stud and that's all well and good for the ladies and the gay men who're into Reigns in that particular way, but wrestling is full of good looking people and it takes more than that for me to invest my interest.

 

[Prince Vee]

Wrestler is a strong word to describe Roman Reigns, in my verdict at least. But I would say he can improve as a good sports entertainer. He learns everyday and he improves every time you see him in the ring. Even his persona in the ring and improved, but he won't be a great wrestler. You see, fans these days want to see real wrestling, they are ready to see switching headlocks and hand wingers rather than stylish fist jacks and all. John Cena, being a great sports entertainer and all thrived through those fan base and improved his reportoria and gave us some good matches in the recent past which is unlikely to happen with Roman Reigns. Fans love wrestling these days, you can blame it on the Indie darlings, that's how you call it, but the fans wants those darlings to win and shine. And that will make Roman Reigns job more hard.

 

[resignedknight]

Can I ask everybody a random question that's been bothering me? Does it bother you that Roman wears a freaking flak jacket while he wrestles? I know it's the look he came in with as a Shield member, and I know they wanted to give the Shield identity to him (ring music, etc.), but he's supposed to be this super tough, overcome all the odds guy and he's out there in a flak jacket against a bunch of guys in their underwear. It doesn't exactly scream badass to me.

My guess is they feel he can't go shirtless because the Samoan tats would run the risk of pegging him as a Samoan guy rather than, dare I say, The Guy. But c'mon, it just looks weird as hell to see a face in body armor beating up a heel in tights, doesn't it?

 

[Azane]

Can I ask everybody a random question that's been bothering me? Does it bother you that Roman wears a freaking flak jacket while he wrestles? I know it's the look he came in with as a Shield member, and I know they wanted to give the Shield identity to him (ring music, etc.), but he's supposed to be this super tough, overcome all the odds guy and he's out there in a flak jacket against a bunch of guys in their underwear. It doesn't exactly scream badass to me.

My guess is they feel he can't go shirtless because the Samoan tats would run the risk of pegging him as a Samoan guy rather than, dare I say, The Guy. But c'mon, it just looks weird as hell to see a face in body armor beating up a heel in tights, doesn't it?

Roman isn't a Face, the entire crowd boos him and cheers his opponent, even if they try to make him a face, he's a megaheel, the reason he hasnt been dumped at all is because he Garners such a huge heel reaction.

People are genuinely enjoying booing him, personally I just turn off the TV whenver he's on now, but I think they actually have an interesting idea with pushing the guy everyone hates as a face, it's terrible from a pure wrestling fan standpoint, but WWE is'nt wrestling, it's Sports Entertainment, the story being told about the anti-face is going to be interesting to tell 10 years from now.

that's my 2 cents, I gave up blindly hating the guy, and I'm trying to find the positives for him, but I still turn off the TV to avoid Succoring Succotash or Tater Tots.

He actually can wrestle well, maybe not at the level a 3 time world champion should, but he's far from Ryback Bad. The biggest issue with his matches and moveset, is the No sell, into a superman punch and spear. The Fastlane match where he dogged the whole match, no sold a half dozen chairshots, then speared Dean once for the #1 contendorship is in my view, the biggest glaring example of why nobody cares about him. Superman is boring these days.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Wrestler is a strong word to describe Roman Reigns, in my verdict at least. But I would say he can improve as a good sports entertainer. He learns everyday and he improves every time you see him in the ring. Even his persona in the ring and improved, but he won't be a great wrestler. You see, fans these days want to see real wrestling, they are ready to see switching headlocks and hand wingers rather than stylish fist jacks and all. John Cena, being a great sports entertainer and all thrived through those fan base and improved his reportoria and gave us some good matches in the recent past which is unlikely to happen with Roman Reigns. Fans love wrestling these days, you can blame it on the Indie darlings, that's how you call it, but the fans wants those darlings to win and shine. And that will make Roman Reigns job more hard.

If you want to see "real" wrestling, go watch the Olympics.

If you want see a mix of interesting moves, good promos, storytelling, humor, intensity and power, if you want to see guys fall off ladders, hit each other with weapons, or exchange move for move, then you get sports entertainment.

 

[resignedknight]

If you want to see "real" wrestling, go watch the Olympics.

If you want see a mix of interesting moves, good promos, storytelling, humor, intensity and power, if you want to see guys fall off ladders, hit each other with weapons, or exchange move for move, then you get sports entertainment.

No, I knew someone would say that, but it's not about realism. I don't care about realism. It's about optics. Whether he's supposed to be a face or a heel, he's supposed to be a badass, so the costume undermines the essence of his character. To me that's a problem.

 

[yourdamnluck]

His ring gear is the best in the business. His ladder match with Sheamus is my favourite ladder match of all time. His match with Bray and lesner were very good.
It's just that he overplays his emotions and isn't good enough on mike to get over as a face. But he already has and will continue to give great matches. Just put him in a feud with KO or Cesaro and not a semi-retired half a century old (but still a legend) Triple H.