Connecting With Characters - Why Roman Reigns Isn't Over
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boywithbluehanger
I have to poop.
I'll admit...I love to oversimplify things. So I'm going to apply that in this discussion.
The reason why Roman Reigns isn't receiving the desired response, has very little to do with his successes, lineage, favoritism etc. It has EVERYTHING to do with the negativity of the smarks and his journey to the industry.
By that I mean:
Negativity of Smarks- Obviously if smarks chose to accept the storylines as they are (like you know...fans), Roman would instead receive a majority of lauded praise rather than the "half & half" response he receives now.
Disrespected Journey- If Roman was a well-respected wrestler from a less popular promotion or a top-anticipated NXT wrestler prior to being pushed, his response would be different (like Bray Wyatt, Kevin Owens, AJ Styles etc)
But as WWE has learned in the past 10 years, they have very little control of dictating the response of live crowds when they choose not to cater to the smarks.
The reason why Roman Reigns isn't receiving the desired response, has very little to do with his successes, lineage, favoritism etc. It has EVERYTHING to do with the negativity of the smarks and his journey to the industry.
By that I mean:
Negativity of Smarks- Obviously if smarks chose to accept the storylines as they are (like you know...fans), Roman would instead receive a majority of lauded praise rather than the "half & half" response he receives now.
Disrespected Journey- If Roman was a well-respected wrestler from a less popular promotion or a top-anticipated NXT wrestler prior to being pushed, his response would be different (like Bray Wyatt, Kevin Owens, AJ Styles etc)
But as WWE has learned in the past 10 years, they have very little control of dictating the response of live crowds when they choose not to cater to the smarks.
mancini999
Dark Match Winner
I think the vast majority of fans don't want to see Roman as the champ. It's going to be hard for them to have him treated as the face against HHH at mania. People loved Trips destroying Roman, that could be fans just like seeing someone destroyed regardless who it it. HHH shouldn't be doing the crop chop if he wants to remain heel. It's not going help people root for Roman.
Mustang Sally
Sells seashells by the seashore
Good advice, yet we don't know who "himself" is. Maybe his natural personality isn't suited for big-time success on the mic and he figured he'd make it based entirely on his look.
So okay, they've given it an extended shot.....and if WWE management doesn't think he's developing as he should, let him go heel. It's an easier role to play, and Roman's rugged appearance lends itself well to that.
Give the guy a Heyman-like mouthpiece to handle the vocals.....or don't have Roman speak much at all; as a bad guy, he could do it with actions alone.
Of course, we don't know that the powers-that-be feel he can't make it. After all, they're still letting him try, aren't they?
But if the decision winds up being that he can't handle too much.......give him less. No more smiling, no more extended speeches, no more attempts to win people over. With Roman's look.....and his particular skill set.....have him perform as a rampaging beast.
Ol'Canucklehead
Pre-Show Stalwart
Wow, there is a lot of butthurt in this thread. Smarks calling smarks, smarks. lol I'll sum up Roman in one word: BORING!! Aside from the E shoving him down our throats, the guy does absolutely nothing for me. Bad promos, boring moves, my god when he cocks his wrist before the Superman punch I cringe. It looks so dumb. Sometimes it looks like he's having spasms when he's trying to look mad or tough. Is he built for wrestling? Sure. Is he cut out for the full spectrum of what it takes to be successful? Not at the level they are trying to hand him. He still needs a lot of work. I for one, have never flipped flopped on him, I never saw him as good. Again, just boring.
BaconBits
WZ Czar of Steaks
It's really kind of unfair to the wrestlers themselves to attempt force a certain kind of reaction to them. I'm not just talking Roman, I'm talking any wrestler. They should really be happy that there's a reaction at all. Especially considering that Vince has the idea and has said as much that there is no such thing as true face or heel anymore.
Roman has people paying attention, whether they like him or not. That's a large part of the battle. Now it's time to really ask him what he wants, and then let him run it. I have a tendency to think if you add more elements of Roman the human to Roman the character that it would go over much, much better.
Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.
Kamehamehaaaaa!!
What I also think is that the crowd isn't really booing Roman, but they're booing the WWE through Roman. Everyone wants Reigns to succeed. Reigns was born to be at the top of the WWE, there's no denying that. Even after his match with Lesnar at Wrestlemania, people have seen that Reigns is a great worker in the ring. BUT, they don't want a John Cena 2.0, which is what WWE is trying to do. They want the Roman that they loved back in the Shield days.
Last RAW and TLC proved that the fans love beat downs, when it comes to Roman Reigns. Then make him go beserk against Triple H. No more shit taken. Next week Roman takes out the LON. Destroys them. The week after Roman destroys someone else. And someone else the week after that.
Last RAW and TLC proved that the fans love beat downs, when it comes to Roman Reigns. Then make him go beserk against Triple H. No more shit taken. Next week Roman takes out the LON. Destroys them. The week after Roman destroys someone else. And someone else the week after that.
George Steele's Barber
Advertise Here $9.95/month
There is no simple reason for Roman's struggles. Everyone has their own reason or reasons. But it's silly to reject the idea that problems don't exist or that he is "over" in the right way. His pops and heat are both pretty weak for a face fighting for the title, and avenging the evil bosses in the biggest match of the year in the biggest event of the year of not all time.
My hope is that they are using this beat down to give Reigns a new reason to be the post TLC guy. They may want to try putting him in a protective mask as well in order to make him seem somewhat deranged and for kayfabe protection from his "surgery". It would add something to a guy who feels like an empty void of humanity to me.
My hope is that they are using this beat down to give Reigns a new reason to be the post TLC guy. They may want to try putting him in a protective mask as well in order to make him seem somewhat deranged and for kayfabe protection from his "surgery". It would add something to a guy who feels like an empty void of humanity to me.
Thinking that every wrestler out there will have a connection with the audience, its stupid. Thats why he isnt over, its not because he is a bad wrestlers, its not because his promos are not the best in any way or shape. Its because not everyone has that something else which connect him with the public.
Call it charisma, spark, light, bless, it factor.....whatever, Roman AND MOST OF THE ROSTER doesnt have it.
Thats why 99% of the wrestlers are NOT super stars or top stars or are over with the crownd.
Call it charisma, spark, light, bless, it factor.....whatever, Roman AND MOST OF THE ROSTER doesnt have it.
Thats why 99% of the wrestlers are NOT super stars or top stars or are over with the crownd.
I think Reigns is over I just don't think he's over enough to warrant him being in this position. To salvage him they need to turn him heel and let him rip into the fans and I'm sure it'll get over and after awhile you turn him face and then you give him that big babyface push that they want.
I think that right now, not even a heel turn can save his ass. A heel turn after WM31 would've worked, right now, it wont.
Sideline him, put him on the shelf for a couple of month, take him out of tv, and have him coming back, with a different attitude. Let people heal about his overexposure to roman.
The WWE have to realise that if you've got maybe 5 people the fans will cheer for, choosing someone outside that 5 to be the next big thing just isn't going to work. This is karma catching up with the WWE for the way they pushed Cena. The audience has suffered through John for 12 years and they're determined that it's not going to happen again. What's regrettable in all this is that Roman could have gotten to the top naturally had the WWE not forced it.
At some point the WWE are going to have to realise that it's the audience that who will decide is popular. This isn't the 80's anymore, the audience is educated (probably too much) to the storybeats, the psychology, the business and they don't like the WWE's attempt to manipulate them.
The WWE audience has been in a state of rebellion against the company since the mid 00's and it's about time the WWE adapted to it and realised that the only thing that gets you over is talent. Not t-shirt sales. Not pretty faces. Not kissing arse and having the right friends. The only thing the audience cares about is talent.
At some point the WWE are going to have to realise that it's the audience that who will decide is popular. This isn't the 80's anymore, the audience is educated (probably too much) to the storybeats, the psychology, the business and they don't like the WWE's attempt to manipulate them.
The WWE audience has been in a state of rebellion against the company since the mid 00's and it's about time the WWE adapted to it and realised that the only thing that gets you over is talent. Not t-shirt sales. Not pretty faces. Not kissing arse and having the right friends. The only thing the audience cares about is talent.
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
I agree with the notion that too many fans have some sort of bias against larger guys, it's something that's ridiculous to see and hear sometimes. However, the term "vanilla midget" CANNOT be applied to guys like Punk or Bryan because it's inaccurate. It's a term coined by Kevin Nash to describe guys like Chris Jericho who didn't fit in with the outdated image of what a pro wrestler is "supposed" to look like. Bryan and Punk had fans eating out of the palms of their hands and hanging on everything they did; it's called charisma, it's called personality and it's something that Roman Reigns distinctly lacks. He may look a lot like the Rock, but he most definitely does not have the charismatic presence of the Rock.
Charisma is something you have or something you don't, it can't be taught or artificially created, at least not for very long, as it's something that has to be part of who someone is. I'm willing to entertain the possibility that Roman Reigns might do well if Vince didn't try to turn him into another John Cena. Cena is great, I don't give a shit what the haters say because he's proven time and time again that he's among the overall best pro wrestlers in the world, but Reigns is not John Cena and forcing him to be similar to Cena isn't going to work. I don't believe that it's all Reigns' fault whatsoever, I just think one of the biggest problems he has is that the man who has the final creative say over what happens, Vincent Kennedy McMahon, no longer his finger on the pulse of the modern wrestling fan the way he did 20 years ago. Not only does Reigns not have the ability of Cena, many fans are tired of seeing the jacked up superhero taking center stage ahead of others that they're more interested in.
Reigns isn't a bad wrestler, but there are wrestlers on the roster, in my opinion, that are much more talented. I'm not the only one who has that opinion and if more fans want to see....I dunno.....Cesaro pushed than Reigns, then I just don't see what the problem is. Fans are going to connect with who they're going to connect to, it's not something that can be forced upon them and rallying behind a certain wrestler just because Vince McMahon wants them to isn't good enough. If fans all but scream out that they want to see AJ Styles vs. Finn Balor next year at WrestleMania for the WWE Championship, I don't see the problem with that whatsoever, nor do I see why Vince McMahon should because it just strikes me as insanely logical to do what it takes to get your audience to pay their money to see your product. If that means seeing a couple of 5'10" 200 lbs. guys headline your company rather than a 6'5" 275 lbs. jacked up bruiser, so be it.
BestSportsEntertainer
I Don't Need No User Title
Well Roman Reigns was booed loudly at Fastlane and the Raw after. It's mixed reactions every other night. I wouldn't call that over.
BestSportsEntertainer
I Don't Need No User Title
Roman Reigns has been booked like an underdog when he's clearly not. Is anyone denying this?
BestSportsEntertainer
I Don't Need No User Title
You think Roman Reigns isn't over just because he didn't come from the indies?
You're ignoring the fact that Reigns lacks charisma, in-ring skills, and a character that makes sense (as explained in my OP).
And he has received praise, but some fans if you bother to even read are sick of this push, which I might add has lasted almost 2 years now. He had been booked as an underdog or a superman depending on the storyline, and you can't have it both ways. Either the guy is a badass or he isn't. And he is certainly with his size and look, no underdog.
Not everyone in the crowd booing him are "smarks" they are just generally tired of it and want to see their favourite get the chances that Reigns has had. And he has been given chance after chance and it has failed. The only person that can't see that is Vince McMahon and he is the one calling the shots around here. And look at the results.
That's bullshit and you know it. John Cena is a WWE home grown talent and he's done very well in this industry. And Bray Wyatt, what the hell, he's never been an indy wrestler or from TNA.
No he isn't and people have been saying that for a long time now. This story line that some are proposing that he's doing it for his family, well aren't they all. Besides isn't that Kevin Owens gimmick? Stop giving Reigns recycled gimmicks and give him one of his own. Is it really that hard to do?
BaconBits
WZ Czar of Steaks
Cena gets mixed reactions every other night. Is he not over?
The point of my post went directly over your head. You, like so many other folks on wrasslin forums, have no idea what over actually is.
Naniwa91
19awinaN
The very fact that he's getting any type of loud, animated reaction is proof of "over-ness". As others have said previously, the top brass have no clue as to what to do.
You don't put 600 tons on the back of a turtle. You don't use sandbags to move faster... and you certainly aren't supposed to put a potato in the back of your car's muffler whilst taping all of the intake openings. What am I saying? If they are trying to find the next John Cena and turn RR into him (which is exactly what they're doing), they are not only murdering Roman's career, but their own existence is in jeopardy of not being around much longer.
If you think about it, WWE and Formula One have some similarities. They both have grey-headed billionaires running the company (Vince McMahon and Bernie Ecclestone, respectively), the product is predictable (you know who is going to win the match and the championships) and there are alternatives to watch (that's a completely different subject). There seems to be a disconnect with what the fans want, and there is evidence (declining attendance and viewership figures) of this as well.
So all in all, regardless of that last paragraph, it's still very difficult to pin the blame on just one person. Roman is uncomfortable with his gimmick, and for whatever reason, seemingly cannot work up the intestinal fortitude to tell the creative dept. of R&D (at this point it's not Research and Development, it's Ruin & Destroy) to "Give me something I can work with, signed Roman"; or the fact that the WWE Creative Department of R&D is ignoring him. I don't know.
In truth, does he need a heel turn? Maybe. But if he can't show also that he can run with the crap that Creative gives him and turn it into something partially decent, then the point becomes moot. As I said, it's not all him, but he is the one that whether you like it or not, is in front of the camera taking the verbal bullet for WWE right now.
You don't put 600 tons on the back of a turtle. You don't use sandbags to move faster... and you certainly aren't supposed to put a potato in the back of your car's muffler whilst taping all of the intake openings. What am I saying? If they are trying to find the next John Cena and turn RR into him (which is exactly what they're doing), they are not only murdering Roman's career, but their own existence is in jeopardy of not being around much longer.
If you think about it, WWE and Formula One have some similarities. They both have grey-headed billionaires running the company (Vince McMahon and Bernie Ecclestone, respectively), the product is predictable (you know who is going to win the match and the championships) and there are alternatives to watch (that's a completely different subject). There seems to be a disconnect with what the fans want, and there is evidence (declining attendance and viewership figures) of this as well.
So all in all, regardless of that last paragraph, it's still very difficult to pin the blame on just one person. Roman is uncomfortable with his gimmick, and for whatever reason, seemingly cannot work up the intestinal fortitude to tell the creative dept. of R&D (at this point it's not Research and Development, it's Ruin & Destroy) to "Give me something I can work with, signed Roman"; or the fact that the WWE Creative Department of R&D is ignoring him. I don't know.
In truth, does he need a heel turn? Maybe. But if he can't show also that he can run with the crap that Creative gives him and turn it into something partially decent, then the point becomes moot. As I said, it's not all him, but he is the one that whether you like it or not, is in front of the camera taking the verbal bullet for WWE right now.
boywithbluehanger
I have to poop.
Except that's not what I said. :\ The portion of my comment that you're referring to clearly stated that Roman's lack of support is in part due to not being a "well-respected wrestler from a less popular promotion or a top-anticipated NXT wrestler prior to being pushed." Furthermore, being well-respected or highly anticipated is not at all the same as simply "coming from the indies". Good job putting words in my mouth though. 10/10
And that's exactly why I stated that Roman is receiving a "half & half response". Congrats on disagreeing with me by actually agreeing with me.
Umm...you're kidding right. The quote of mine that you used to respond to me so very clearly reads "If Roman was a well-respected wrestler from a less popular promotion or a top-anticipated NXT wrestler prior to being pushed, his response would be different (like Bray Wyatt, Kevin Owens, AJ Styles etc)" Why would you quote me, ignore what I wrote, and then assume that I stated something that I didnt? I never stated Bray was from the indies or from TNA...that's what that NXT mention was for.
Ladies and gentlemen, a prime example of someone fishing for a reason to be disagreeable. Don't be that guy.
MartialHorror
Mid-Card Championship Winner
The problem with Roman Reigns is based around his presentation and booking. He got over in the Shield because he was portrayed as a pure bad-ass. He lost the goodwill when they started repackaging him as Cena 2.0. He caught on again at TLC because he started acting like the super bad-ass of old, crushing everyone who got in his way. At that moment, he reflected what the crowds want from him.
The following few weeks, we got to see him cutting Stephanie off at the knees. Her attempts at verbally emasculating him back-fired as he just dismantled all of her attempts with ease and it was very gratifying. But eventually they tried making him into the artificial underdog once more, instead focusing on how Brock Lesnar was the bad-ass they wanted him to be. Now he's back to where he was before, with everyone getting the best of him. The booking surrounding Fastlane was awkward because the story went from 'Roman Vs Triple H' to 'Ambrose Vs Brock', with Roman Reigns still getting the pin, deflating the angle of all of its drama.
These problems build and build, which causes fans to grow sour on who is stuck in the middle: Roman Reigns.
The following few weeks, we got to see him cutting Stephanie off at the knees. Her attempts at verbally emasculating him back-fired as he just dismantled all of her attempts with ease and it was very gratifying. But eventually they tried making him into the artificial underdog once more, instead focusing on how Brock Lesnar was the bad-ass they wanted him to be. Now he's back to where he was before, with everyone getting the best of him. The booking surrounding Fastlane was awkward because the story went from 'Roman Vs Triple H' to 'Ambrose Vs Brock', with Roman Reigns still getting the pin, deflating the angle of all of its drama.
These problems build and build, which causes fans to grow sour on who is stuck in the middle: Roman Reigns.
shooter_mcgavin
Mid-Card Championship Winner
Well that add that regarding working in indies perhaps that's Reigns problem or heck the problems with the entire roster as a whole. I was listening to Jim Cornette and he said the last time Wrestling and the WWE got hot was the Attitude Era and he mentions its no coincidence that the top stars in the Attitude Era were the last remnants of guys working in the Territories.
I guess that's what's lacking in Reigns or the roster for that matter they just can't over as WWE might want them to since they don't have the seasoning, experience, and cultivation to get as over as guys from the previous era.
Piss Bucket
Future British World Champ
Roman Reigns is "popular" for the same reason The Rock was at first, through his Family he's related to nearly every other Samoan wrestler ever, except Samoa Joe of course who according to his Wikipedia page isn't really Samoan, he was born in California.
mkw1962
Getting Noticed By Management
First things first Roman's booking is terrible. I personally like Roman and think he can be the future face of the WWE, but some things have to change first for that to happen. A lot of people do not like Roman because he is Vince's hand picked boy to replace John Cena in the future. People do not like Roman because of his character he is not believable, Roman is this big strong dude who should be able to tear up anyone but he is booked like a wimp. This is what they need to do:
1. Turn Roman heel
2. Change his outfit
3. Get Roman a mouthpiece like Paul or someone
You do these things and let Roman beat up on everyone that gets in his path, that includes Dean and The Rock and Roman will win over a whole lot more fans when he changes back to a face down the road. Roman does not need to have everyone like him, not everyone likes John Cena.
1. Turn Roman heel
2. Change his outfit
3. Get Roman a mouthpiece like Paul or someone
You do these things and let Roman beat up on everyone that gets in his path, that includes Dean and The Rock and Roman will win over a whole lot more fans when he changes back to a face down the road. Roman does not need to have everyone like him, not everyone likes John Cena.
achromat666
Pre-Show Stalwart
Roman's problem is his lack of ability to work a crowd. He's not comfortable on the mic and therefore has a big problem selling himself and selling matches.
Think for a minute when was the last time Roman actually had a promo that convinced you something big was going to happen. For the better part of the past year most matches with Roman in it have been sold more by his opponents than by him. The WWE have gone out of their way to book roman as stronger than everyone without investing in the one thing every other main event mainstay has had to have in order to stay on top: A charismatic connection to the audience.
Ambrose can and has sold himself to varying effect since his days in the Shield. Bray, Seth... hell even Ryback can sell himself as awkward as he can be on the mic. But Roman is not being allowed to sink or swim and therefore not learning from his mistakes. He's being painted as an amalgam of other stars (the Austin style badass, the Bryan style underdog, etc) without ever establishing with the audience who he actually is.
Overall he's largely unchanged since his days in the Shield. He's not growing as a star. Look at Seth Rollins. He went from third wheel in the Shield to weaselly heel to holding the show together all while improving on the mic and being able to convincing work with everyone in the ring. Ambrose went from the de facto leader of the Shield to the lunatic fringe and while he's been largely lost in the mid card helped Rollins establish his title reign with great matches and has given great promos in his feuds with Wyatt, Ambrose and the Authority.
The growth of Reigns is slow going that it's simply not catching up to the expectation. He does not have the charisma of a top star, or has yet to demonstrate it. He still needs to find himself and develop out of his Shield persona. The constant over protecting and over scripting is not helping him.
Think for a minute when was the last time Roman actually had a promo that convinced you something big was going to happen. For the better part of the past year most matches with Roman in it have been sold more by his opponents than by him. The WWE have gone out of their way to book roman as stronger than everyone without investing in the one thing every other main event mainstay has had to have in order to stay on top: A charismatic connection to the audience.
Ambrose can and has sold himself to varying effect since his days in the Shield. Bray, Seth... hell even Ryback can sell himself as awkward as he can be on the mic. But Roman is not being allowed to sink or swim and therefore not learning from his mistakes. He's being painted as an amalgam of other stars (the Austin style badass, the Bryan style underdog, etc) without ever establishing with the audience who he actually is.
Overall he's largely unchanged since his days in the Shield. He's not growing as a star. Look at Seth Rollins. He went from third wheel in the Shield to weaselly heel to holding the show together all while improving on the mic and being able to convincing work with everyone in the ring. Ambrose went from the de facto leader of the Shield to the lunatic fringe and while he's been largely lost in the mid card helped Rollins establish his title reign with great matches and has given great promos in his feuds with Wyatt, Ambrose and the Authority.
The growth of Reigns is slow going that it's simply not catching up to the expectation. He does not have the charisma of a top star, or has yet to demonstrate it. He still needs to find himself and develop out of his Shield persona. The constant over protecting and over scripting is not helping him.
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