CM Punk Has Got To Go

[Zangash]

I dunno about any of you guys, but I switched Raw off during the Punk/Del Rio match and played MW3.

Not because of CM Punk, but because I already knew there was a solid 150% chance of Punk winning and watching Del Rio wrestle triggers my A.D.D and I usually end up doing something else anyways.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Well, well, well...What do we have here? A bunch of marks getting angry at facts? Soooooooo not surprised! All you guys can do is say "Well your wrong b/c I find him entertaining" And "The facts are lies b/c I find him entertaining". WOW!!!.

Net negative 31,000 buys in punk headlined PPV's
Net negative 218,000 in veiwership. (average among Punk segs., this stuff is verry public for those who care)
And if his only claim to fame is out-selling Cena in merchandise for ONE MONTH, than wow, thats horrible considering Cena has been on top for allmost 7 years, and who else is actually out there by now who hasnt bought his stuff ALREADY if they like him) POOR STUPID SELLING POINT.

AND IF PUNK CANT ATTRACT LARGER VIEWERHIP CUZ OF DELRIO... YOUR ADMITTING MY POINT!!!

and While Cody is God's gift to wrestling, he wont be carrying Raw, they need to bring Orton back to Raw and put Punk on SD!

You PPL will look so dumb when in 4 months, WWE business is not growing, and you thought Punk would save it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We won't care.

Nobody cares that the business won't grow. You, once again, are an imbecile for only focusing on the business side of the WWE. It isn't your business, you haven't all the facts or the numbers, the WWE Corporate website may release quarter earnings but guess what? They don't release the numbers for everything. If WWE are going to lose money, the Network will probably never get off the ground - wait, no it will, because you're a pompous ass who knows nothing about anything yet thinks he knows all the details about everything.

Also, dumbass, you may want to keep up. He has been out-selling Cena in-terms of merchandise since July. He stated this recently as last week but you being so obsessed with crunching numbers and devising idiotic theories and ideas which will never work in a realistic world probably missed that and yet still decided to make this stupid thread.

Don't get pissy because everyone knows you're wrong. You are seemingly always wrong, hence why most people see you and your postings as a joke.

 

[RoughKut]

To Curt, this doesn't have anything to do with how well Cena wrestles or if he "sucks". That's opinion. Saying you have to be a child or "mindless" to like Cena is just silly. Still opinion.

Fact: is Cena is the hands down most popular star on the WWE roster. That's why he's not going to go heel. That's why he's the center of the show most of the time.

WWE is going to do what's best for business, not what's best to satisfy the booing males in arenas on Raw. They can care less about the booing, in fact, they just make storylines out of it and make even MORE money off Cena.

Punk is a RISING star. He's not on Cena's level, not even close. YET. Punk can certainly parlay his status into that level.

The show will not revolve around Punk until he proves he can sell. As long as Punk feuds with Del Rio and John laryngitis, he's stay stagnant like he has since June.

They trust Punk with the title, that's a big step. I'm looking forward to how Punk develops from here.

 

[Zangash]

Well, well, well...What do we have here? A bunch of marks getting angry at facts? Soooooooo not surprised! All you guys can do is say "Well your wrong b/c I find him entertaining" And "The facts are lies b/c I find him entertaining". WOW!!!.

Net negative 31,000 buys in punk headlined PPV's
Net negative 218,000 in veiwership. (average among Punk segs., this stuff is verry public for those who care)
And if his only claim to fame is out-selling Cena in merchandise for ONE MONTH, than wow, thats horrible considering Cena has been on top for allmost 7 years, and who else is actually out there by now who hasnt bought his stuff ALREADY if they like him) POOR STUPID SELLING POINT.

AND IF PUNK CANT ATTRACT LARGER VIEWERHIP CUZ OF DELRIO... YOUR ADMITTING MY POINT!!!

and While Cody is God's gift to wrestling, he wont be carrying Raw, they need to bring Orton back to Raw and put Punk on SD!

You PPL will look so dumb when in 4 months, WWE business is not growing, and you thought Punk would save it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-Viewership dropping is due to the general product being something close to pure shit the past few months. I don't mind PG, but I do mind entire episodes being dedicated to the mother fucking muppets.

-CM Punk didn't just outsell Cena one month, he is the new #1 merchandise seller. Big difference.

-Del Rio actually causes people to lose interest. How does that mean Punk is the problem? I don't follow your logic there.

-I can't speak for everyone, but I never thought he would save the WWE. I just thought he'd be a great addition to the product and, surprise surprise, I was right.

-Cody is not God's gift to wrestling. Decent in ring skills, slightly above average on the mic, not even 30 years old, he's not even close to the wrestler he'll be in our heads when we're old and looking back on our memories of the WWE.

 

[ryan86]

OMG!!!!! If you can state that The WWE will prosper with Punk on top, and not by subjective means, i mean by FACTS, then i feel sorry for you when u prove to be a mark.

And if you dont care about WWE prospering as long as Punk is on top b/c u find it entertaining, well that certainly makes you a mark.

Please Ryan86; "DONT HURT OUR SUPER-HERO PUNK WITH YOUR FACTS"! Well keep singing that tune people B/C it's music to my ears.

And Yes; On a purley subjective Note: CODY IS GOD!!!!

 

[crippler]

Well, The past two months have been centered around Punk, and the ratings fall? You made my point.

And I dont pretend to think Cody is ready to carry Raw, nor that he ever will be.

Cody is my favorite star but I know he cant carry the WWE.

And if you cant get beyond that core 4 million, you dont deserve to be called "a new era".

ratings going down can't be put all on CM punk when the problem is that people want a good show start to finish not just when Punk does a promo or has a match The last 2 months have been centered around Punk really? when all we have been hearing about is Cena and Rock and for those months the WWE champion has been Cena and Del Rio. Want to know why ratings are falling Cena has got boring he does the same thing all the time nobody wants to watch him anymore at least Punk does different stuff for each fued.

 

[KnowYoRole]

I'm not CM Punk's biggest fan, and I think he can be REALLY corny sometimes, but the FACT is, he is SUPER over. He is probably the most popular star in the business right now (bar the rock) and he won't go anywhere and he doesn't need to go anywhere. The guy has talent and as much as I don't "get" him he's going to be a top guy for years and years to come God willing, because the fans obviously like him. That's the way the business works. Majority rules and as long as the majority cheers and supports him he won't go anywhere.

 

[chrisguy24]

Punk is carrying the WWE. If it weren't for him, I don't wanna know who would be champion right now, I think Punk has brought a fresh feel to WWE especially when Cena being pushed since 2004. There needed to be a change and CM Punk has brought a good change. You are one of those people who just don't like the new popular guy. The top five guys in WWE right now are Punk, Ziggler, Miz, Del Rio & Rhodes.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

OMG!!!!! If you can state that The WWE will prosper with Punk on top, and not by subjective means, i mean by FACTS, then i feel sorry for you when u prove to be a mark.

And if you dont care about WWE prospering as long as Punk is on top b/c u find it entertaining, well that certainly makes you a mark.

Please Ryan86; "DONT HURT OUR SUPER-HERO PUNK WITH YOUR FACTS"! Well keep singing that tune people B/C it's music to my ears.

And Yes; On a purley subjective Note: CODY IS GOD!!!!

I think you're losing the plot altogether. You seem to commenting yourself or something, because you aren't replying to anything, anybody is posting and now you're talking to yourself.

Here's a fact, CM Punk is currently the top merchanside seller in the WWE. Here's another fact, as seen in this thread, nobody cares if WWE ratings go down because ADR was involved in the match as well and as most have pointed out, ADR sucks for one and two everyone knew Punk would retain. And three, nobody cares if the ratings go down because we watch for the entertainment, you don't like that? Go fuck yourself and proceed by jumping off a cliff.

You can't hurt CM Punk with anything, although you do come across as a psychopath so I use that lightly, chances are we'll read a report where some dude attempted to kill Punk with the latest spreadsheets documenting WWE annual earnings and we all will know it was indeed, Ryan89. Also, there is no music, where do you hear music? This is a wrestling forum not a concert.

And lastly, Cody Rhodes isn't a God. Dolph Ziggler is miles better, Rhodes doesn't have Ziggler's in-ring talent although that isn't taking anything away from Rhodes, he may have better mic skills but he doesn't have the star qualities. Hence why Dolph is beating Randy Orton which Cody wasn't allowed to do and hence why Rhodes is feuding with Booker T.

I like Cody Rhodes, but I fear you really like him... as in... really like... you need help dude.

 

[Foshinzo]

Rofl. Punk has been on top for like, how long now and suddenly everyone is blaming him for the ratings decline and the low PPV buys? I see the connection, it's just funny to me that so many Punk haters are already using the very first chance that they get to attack the man. Instead of insulting Punk marks, how about you admit that you probably just don't like Punk, if you're that vehement about attacking him? When I insult John Cena, I can admit that it's just because I don't like him while others might. Don't turn this into a factual argument based on the ebb and flow of ratings.

Here's a fact: RAW has sucked for a long time, now, and nobody will fix that, not even Punk.

Here's a related fact: John Lauranitis, David Otunga and Alberto Del Rio are all incredibly bad, boring, and uninteresting characters, yet they're all being featured on the show. Also, does somebody want to give blame to the Michael Cole character? I don't know about you, but I literally change the channel when he's on TV. Same goes for Vickie Guerrero and John Lauranitis. These people are cheap heat machines, and cheap heat will always drive fans away.

The entire show is being written to annoy us. I don't know how else to put it.

We chant that we want Zack Ryder, and they're still not using him as a mainstay character. Love him or hate him, John Morrison put on entertaining matches, yet they just let him get away. Punk has been doing a fine job, but he's put in a feud with characters that nobody cares about.

The ratings drop isn't Punk's fault, nor is it even ADR's fault, it's the writer's and VKM's. Alberto Del Rio shouldn't have become a main event guy. He just shouldn't have. John Lauranitis is the most poorly thought out character that the WWE has had in years. Nobody at all is going to care about this guy. Cena and Miz are just floating around with no clear direction, Kofi has nothing to do with Bourne out, HHH and Nash are doing nothing to advance that feud...the writing on RAW is just horrible.

By the way, about Vengeance, has anyone thought to say that maybe with two PPV's in a month that has featured terrible booking, the buy rates were just destined to be awful? 13 PPVs is just too many. Hell, 12 is too many. The show is featuring the wrong people too prominently, VKM is actively ignoring the fans desires, and it's not Punk's fault that the overall show is so bad.

You can't blame a quarterback if he's doing his best to throw three touchdowns a game and then his defense goes and gives up six. Punk is fine.

...and you can spout off your numbers and stats all you want, because the only fact that I need is this: RAW just sucks, right now, and you shouldn't blame any performer for just doing the best with the material that they've been given. It's not Punk's fault, again, it's not even ADR's fault...it's just shitty storytelling.

 

[Mercer the Ruthless]

You make Cody Rhodes look bad I hope no one looks down on him due to the asininity spewed by Ryan86, Cody is a fantastic talent that deserves respect, no doubt. As for your claims that WWE is playing "dress up" with a a guy who's life has been structured around professional wrestling and making it big in professional wrestling and that you feel that he is not good enough for YOU! Is absolutely positively absurd.

I've said before (not on this forum) that, no matter how bad wrestling gets I won't look down on the product, I'll stick with it; sure I'll critique here and there but only where the obvious and most fixable problems lie. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Punk's position, people changed the channel not because of him but because nothing in booking or "structured" writing kept them wanting more that night. There were no hooks other than "watch Punk fight Alberto Del Rio later tonight." This thread is not worth such a lengthy response but whatever, there is one thing that ruins the fun of professional wrestling and it's BS like this.

Punk earned his spot exactly where he's at now; if he's there he deserves just like when and if Rhodes makes it to that level he'll be deservedly of it. They don't need guys like you, ryan86 saying they don't deserve that spot at the top because of the ratings of a show that could have been better if it were booked better.

 

[Casket34]

Im not going to call you any names or dis your thread...in fact i PARTIALLY agree with you...but most of that viewer tune out is from Del Rio and the fact that ppv rematches are just that, they basically re-do the match and seasoned fans know what they are getting as soon as they hear about it...They only real problem I have with punk is he is KIND OFF a hypocrite...

 

[ae_wrestler123]

Why do people use merchandise sales to prove anything? Can't the wwe just sell more of the superstar who they want to have the most sales more than any other? And can't really histerical marks just buy a shitload of merch thinking it would make the wwe feel "hey this guy has the most mech sale"? Would little jimmies really buy CM punk merch?? They don't even know half the shit he is talking bout

 

[BillAlfonso]

"BillAlfonso has returned," they cried.

Look, I've done battle with the Forces of Punk on this forum for saying that Punk is overrated and I still think he is but he's not the problem with WWE, WWE needs to make wholesale changes maybe not all at once but a lot has to change. I think if they'd get rid of the writers, go to a one booker system, end the brand extension, unify each level of the titles, and bring back the cruiserweight belt to keep the guys 225 and under out of the heavyweight scene and this includes Punk, the show would improve drastically.

 

[Brahma_Bull9]

Why does Otunga suck? Micheal Cole sucks?

Some of you are just children...

It is there job, they are cheap heat but not too cheap. I actually like those characters, and though on SD, Otunga had the match of the night over the other guy you guys are in love with, Bryan Daniels....

I don't see how you guys can't get that you are being completely biased because of your punk love fest and this guy, though he may not be entirely correct, has a lot more merit to what he's saying.

 

[Brahma_Bull9]

Why do people use merchandise sales to prove anything? Can't the wwe just sell more of the superstar who they want to have the most sales more than any other? And can't really histerical marks just buy a shitload of merch thinking it would make the wwe feel "hey this guy has the most mech sale"? Would little jimmies really buy CM punk merch?? They don't even know half the shit he is talking bout

because it is a busines... no the wee just can't sell more of the superstar they want with most sales unless they are buying their own products. Additionally it defeats the purpose to make products, not make guys appear better draws than they are by wasting money producing merchandise of minimal interest.

lol at they don't know half the shit Punk is talking about.... you guys really have gone off the deep end with Punk believing everything you hear.

 

[BigThunder]

Punk's current popularity allows the creative team to evolve Cena's character. For that reason alone, the notion proposed by the OP is, to be charitable, deeply, deeply silly.

 

[Headman]

Look, I know that their is a lot of "strong" support here, but it's purely subjective. What most people don't get, is that the viability of a person carrying a "brand" all depends on the objective analysis.

I dont care how many ppl continue to give Punk a mantle he has not proven to deserve, but the day he carries Raw with an INCREASE in viewership towards his match, instead of the veiwership DECRASING during 2 week build-ups to his match, I will reasess his viability.

A rising phenomenon should never be a net negative. All the facts continue to show his drawing power as a net-negative. This goes all the way back to June. The WWE will look at this objectivly over the next 4 months, and when this proves to be nothing more than an IWC interest, then they will roll him over to SD and move Orton back where he belongs. Objectively, durring the rise of Orton in 2009, (yes that was when he carried Raw) The WWE had their best financial year since 2001.

You hit a mark with facts and it makes them angry? Sorry....

I'm not a Punk mark, but since you're trying to present yourself as a smart business man I'll have to explain to you that knee-jerk reactions based on limited data = bad decision making. By your standards Bret Hart should have never been champion because he presided over the weakest era in WWE history. Only, if you were arguing against Bret and not Punk you'd make more sense having years of low ratings, empty arenas and poor ppv buy rates. You've made up your mind on Punk in one hour. I'm not one of those people who think Punk is going to be the guy who carries the WWE on his back, but he doesn't have to. They still have Cena, Orton, Sheamus and others to help carry the company. If Punk fails, he fails. But as it stands now, Del Rio is every bit as responsible for the low ratings as Punk is.

 

[King of the Words]

Lets actually look at what C.M Punk has to offer us, the WWE fans.

#1. He has probably the best mic skills in the business, definetly on par with Cena.
#2. He can out wrestle almost everyone on the roster.
#3. He has given the old school fans what they were dying for which was some edginess and reality to the show.

The one thing that the guy doesn't have which Cena and Orton do have is the "build". I hope that doesn't ruin it for him. Guys in the past that were smaller have led the business such as Bret and HBK. But most have been bigger guys, bigger build and taller. I like seeing someone around my size leading the pack like Punk, but that Bodybuilder look is something , I think, a lot of people are going to want to see in the main guy. I think Punk is one of the few that make up for their smaller stature in their mic skills and in ring ability. I don't see him going any where any time soon. I hope Jericho does return for the to have the "Best in the World" feud and a match at Mania 28. I think that would easily outsell Punk vs. Miz. If Jericho doesn't return then I hope they push Dolph to take on Punk. Perhaps the 2 greatest pushes on Raw this year and both are deserving of it. Would really love to see a feud with these 2 sooner rather than later. But, yeah, Punk is too good to go. At the most he might eventually end up back in the mid card, but that won't be for a long time if he is the face of the NEW ERA. I for one think he deserves to be that face and by Mania 29 I would love to see him and Stone Cold battle it out in a " Best Ever" feud. Rock and Cena will be big, but this feud would make Cena and Rock look like a Raw main event. IMO.

 

[suleman09]

I read the title "CM Punk has got to go" and made one of these faces

then thought, "i hope this is a joke and they are about to say 'has got to go to WM as champ" but it wasnt...so i did one of these

then thought, "what an idiot"

but anyways

CM Punk is big enough where when Raw starts I sit there and hope Punk is out first to cut a promo. and i bet a lot of people hope for more of his "pipe bombs". His matches are never below great, he draws a crap load of money because think about it. he may have beat cena in merchandise sales for only a month but NO ONE has beat Cena in sales in the past 5 years (i believe it was 5 years). thats showing he is drawing big time. the reason cena is back on top of sales is because he has new merchandise again.
He is literally the "poster boy" for TLC
and as one of the many fans that is going to TLC i was excited to see he was on the poster and esp with an ice cream bar made it hilarious for me lol

 

[Negrodamus]

IMO Punk is popular for one segment and one segment only that put him on our radar since then his pipe bomb has been weak with nothing really memorable. Hr does put on good matches but not usually the best of the night ( that spot goes to Ziggler ).

We will not know how Punk can carry the show unless Cena is gone and without Cena really there is no show.
I like Punk but right now he is a hot shot champion and people cheer him because he is not Cena. They did this with Orton too and shortly after we saw that Orton cant carry a show without Cena.

People always talking about how Punk made that match up with Cena great when in reality it was great because he was in a match up with Cena.

Punk vs SCSA sounds good for the straight edge vs beer drinker aspect but we all know just like the Cena Rock match it will be SCSA bringing in the viewers and ticket sales more so than people wanting to see Punk.

I like Punk but he just needs more time in the top spot to prove to me he can carry a show. IMO I think his push and fanfare has an expiry date but I can be wrong. One thing for sure is the WWE knew how to capture this maybe one hit wonder reality promo and capitalize on it. I haven't seen anything special from Punk on the mic since his initial promo. He just says stuff that we say on the internet and none since has had any real impact. Oh well only time will tell if its a knee jerk reaction his popularity or if I am wrong and he can do it I don't really care it will only result in a better product for me to watch.
I always said it wasn't the content of thew attitude era that made it great it was the great characters and story lines that made that era special. Then you had 4-5 guys that could have been the face of the company. that's how and why it was so good. The roster and creative needs to step up

 

[dashthestanpeat]

What fresh hell is this? Honestly ryan, CM Punk is the biggest thing they've got going today. No, he's not a Steve Austin or Dwayne, but people want to see what he'll do next just as much as they want to see what happens with Cena. The people on here that are saying then entire product is fucked up are exactly right. When you have boring-ass people like Otunga and Lauranitis taking up your screen time, and when you have purely annoying people like Michael Cole talking over everything, people are going to change the channel. And you can say Cole isn't that bad all you want to. But skipping out on a heel-sympathizing color guy like Attitude-Era Lawler in favor of a guy with a man-crush on Miz acting like a douchebag every five minutes is pure fucking stupidity. And then you have Nash take out Trips with a hammer and...that's it. Nothing else. Complete absence from the show outside of Santino getting jackknifed. And somehow you have the audacity to say the blame rests on Punk? You'd get rid of punk and keep all of the shitty booking? Shoot Cody to the moon way sooner than he deserves? Keep bland-ass Orton on Raw so we can watch his every cardboard move? I've seen oak trees that can somehow manage to act in a less wooden manner than Orton. Not to mention that this Apex Predator thing is bullshit. At least when he was playing the Viper role as a heel and kicking people in the head he was interesting, as long as he didn't talk too much about how he just gave you a "PUNT to the SKULL" (emphasis his). Seriously, go back to reading your spoon-fed half-figures and if you have that much of a problem with Punk, go watch that two-bit show that Dixie Carter puts on.

 

[RicoLen]

My knee jerk reaction was the flame Ryan for this... but I think that's been well taken care of by now.

The thing that sticks with me after skimming through this thread is that the fact remains that viewership is down with CM Punk as the champion and apparently so are PPV buyrates (though I'd really love to see these 'facts' linked to some kind of objective support rather than take anyone's word for it).

However, what it really comes down to is that you are making the infamous Shawn Michaels argument. If you don't know what that is, let me explain it, but keep in mind it is very much analogous to this argument about CM Punk.

Now, bare with me. Those of you slow of thinking might take this the wrong way and not understand the point I'm getting at here.

The Shawn Michaels arguement:

Everyone likes to say he's the best wrestler ever. Except for one major problem, have you ever looked that the years he gave us the Match of the Year? They were the worst years in WWF/E history. So bad were every one of the years that he had the match of the year, that you could (falsely) correlate his success with the WWF/E's failure.

The Years Shawn Michaels won PWI's Match of the Year:
1993 May 17 Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty
1994 March 20 Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels
1995 April 2 Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels
1996 March 31 Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels
2004 March 14 Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels
2005 April 3 Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle
2006 April 2 Shawn Michaels vs. Vince McMahon
2007 April 23 John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels
2008 March 30 Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels
2009 April 5 The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels
2010 March 28 The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels

Worst years ever. Thanks Shawn Michaels for ruining the WWF/E for everyone right?

Not quite.

It's just a very very weird coincidence.

What you are saying about CM Punk Ryan86, is equivalent to the Shawn Michaels argument.

Anyone who is watching pro-wrestling can tell you that CM Punk is doing wonders for the WWE. And lest you think I'm just a fanboi, I can tell you that I really don't like him all that much. I respect what he's doing immensely, and I pay attention to him and am glad he's on WWE TV, but I have never, nor likely will I ever mark out for him. For me, he's in the same boat with John Cena. I mark out for R-Truth, The Miz, Kevin Nash, Dolph Ziggler, Big Show, and The Rock. But right now the two guys I have the most respect for are John Cena and CM Punk.

CM Punk's outselling John Cena cannot be understated at this point. For one month he has made more money than John Cena. He's the WWE Champion, and Cena is obviously being set up for some kind of character change, whether it's just a more aggressive heel (he'll "let his heel persona shine through") or he'll go straight up heel, and that will be huge.

Because of CM Punk, Cena CAN turn heel, and the combination of CM Punk as the face of the WWE with Cena as the new top heel will be massive money for the WWE. CM Punk getting to where he is right now was badly needed to freshen up the entire WWE.

Fact is, ratings don't mean dick in terms of quality, some of the lowest rated Raws ever were classics, and some of the highest ever were gawdawful trash. It's just not that simple.

As far as buyrates are concerned one main event does not a PPV make. That whole card was kinda bleh. I was hoping, personally, to see CM Punk turn heel again after he won the title, him or Cena, or maybe a Miz faceturn, something to help make that PPV memorable, but it really wasn't, and CM Punk was only 1 of very many that were involved, and certainly not the main reason.

So please, come up with a better argument, because numbers alone don't mean anything unless you can interpret them rationally.

 

[GameOver]

Well, The past two months have been centered around Punk, and the ratings fall? You made my point.

And I dont pretend to think Cody is ready to carry Raw, nor that he ever will be.

Cody is my favorite star but I know he cant carry the WWE.

And if you cant get beyond that core 4 million, you dont deserve to be called "a new era".

Um no the last 2 months have been centered around Alberto Del Rio, Cena and The Rock and on the Smackdown side Henry/Orton and Barrett. Punk's been thrown in there and not used wisely, show's how much you actually watch the program.

Fact is he's over, he may not be hugely over but he's over with enough people to take the load off of Cena so he can concentrate on his personal issue with The Rock.

 

[GameOver]

My knee jerk reaction was the flame Ryan for this... but I think that's been well taken care of by now.

The thing that sticks with me after skimming through this thread is that the fact remains that viewership is down with CM Punk as the champion and apparently so are PPV buyrates (though I'd really love to see these 'facts' linked to some kind of objective support rather than take anyone's word for it).

However, what it really comes down to is that you are making the infamous Shawn Michaels argument. If you don't know what that is, let me explain it, but keep in mind it is very much analogous to this argument about CM Punk.

Now, bare with me. Those of you slow of thinking might take this the wrong way and not understand the point I'm getting at here.

The Shawn Michaels arguement:

Everyone likes to say he's the best wrestler ever. Except for one major problem, have you ever looked that the years he gave us the Match of the Year? They were the worst years in WWF/E history. So bad were every one of the years that he had the match of the year, that you could (falsely) correlate his success with the WWF/E's failure.

The Years Shawn Michaels won PWI's Match of the Year:
1993 May 17 Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty
1994 March 20 Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels
1995 April 2 Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels
1996 March 31 Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels
2004 March 14 Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels
2005 April 3 Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle
2006 April 2 Shawn Michaels vs. Vince McMahon
2007 April 23 John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels
2008 March 30 Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels
2009 April 5 The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels
2010 March 28 The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels

Worst years ever. Thanks Shawn Michaels for ruining the WWF/E for everyone right?

Not quite.

It's just a very very weird coincidence.

What you are saying about CM Punk Ryan86, is equivalent to the Shawn Michaels argument.

Anyone who is watching pro-wrestling can tell you that CM Punk is doing wonders for the WWE. And lest you think I'm just a fanboi, I can tell you that I really don't like him all that much. I respect what he's doing immensely, and I pay attention to him and am glad he's on WWE TV, but I have never, nor likely will I ever mark out for him. For me, he's in the same boat with John Cena. I mark out for R-Truth, The Miz, Kevin Nash, Dolph Ziggler, Big Show, and The Rock. But right now the two guys I have the most respect for are John Cena and CM Punk.

CM Punk's outselling John Cena cannot be understated at this point. For one month he has made more money than John Cena. He's the WWE Champion, and Cena is obviously being set up for some kind of character change, whether it's just a more aggressive heel (he'll "let his heel persona shine through") or he'll go straight up heel, and that will be huge.

Because of CM Punk, Cena CAN turn heel, and the combination of CM Punk as the face of the WWE with Cena as the new top heel will be massive money for the WWE. CM Punk getting to where he is right now was badly needed to freshen up the entire WWE.

Fact is, ratings don't mean dick in terms of quality, some of the lowest rated Raws ever were classics, and some of the highest ever were gawdawful trash. It's just not that simple.

As far as buyrates are concerned one main event does not a PPV make. That whole card was kinda bleh. I was hoping, personally, to see CM Punk turn heel again after he won the title, him or Cena, or maybe a Miz faceturn, something to help make that PPV memorable, but it really wasn't, and CM Punk was only 1 of very many that were involved, and certainly not the main reason.

So please, come up with a better argument, because numbers alone don't mean anything unless you can interpret them rationally.

Not to mention when he was in his first world title run the ratings were at there lowest since b4 Hogan and why was that? Because all the established stars had or were leaving.

Cena era same thing, all the guys that kept the show running til post WCW were all retiring, dying or just moving from onscreen.

Now we have Punk who's gonna be in a bad position because there's bugger all talent around him to make anyone seem that good.

Don't blame one guy because the company is running itself into the ground