Chris Jericho proved a point

Undertaker is just as beat up as Hogan, Flair, Nash, and Foley. The difference is that Taker is the World Heavyweight champion and Hogan and Flair don't wrestle in TNA. Nash and Foley wrestle sparingly and are nowhere near the main event.

Foley was the Heavyweight Champion last year.

You can't really argue that Taker (who I don't even find interesting/compelling) is in the same or even close to the shape of Hogan/Flair/Nash/Foley. Hogan can't do a legdrop without breaking his back. Kevin Nash can't bend his knees (much like Khali) and was in a stable called the Main Event Mafia. Foley gets winded coming to the ring. Flair should've retired 5 years ago; he's in such bad shape.

That said, Undertaker needs to retire before he becomes like Flair/Hogan/Nash/Foley.
 
I remember a tweet earlier this week about Chris Jericho responding to Eric Bischoff talking about how he doesn't see Jericho as a "main eventer". Jericho responded by saying IN HIS words: "Bischoffs right I can't headline in TNA...cos I'm not in my 50s."

Well after watching this week's iMPACT!, he proved a point. Instead of having the World Champ AJ Styles Vs. D'Angelo Dinero as the main event, we were given Kevin Nash Vs. Mick Foley in a No DQ Match that lasted around 4 minutes and on top of that, you got these hasbeens "The Band" coming out in the end. TNA has had a reputation for using old goats like Scott Steiner and Kevin Nash to the max more than WWE. We also had the Main Event Mafia...remember that? What does that tell you?

My question is do you agree with Jericho saying that you can be a main eventer in TNA only if you're in your 50's or do you disagree?

Best response to your point and question is to ask you a question;

Will Jericho be in one of the two main events at Wrestlemania? The likely answer is no - and why? Because, ironically enough, the slots will be filled with mainly guys pushing 50.

so in closing; Jericho has a cheek and I'll bet he knows it too. As far as Im concerned anyone from WWE giving interviews containing questions about Hogan/TNA are never gonna react in a positive manner about Hogan or TNA because they are towing the party line. End of.
 
Anyone on this site ever read the Death of WCW book? I get the feeling most have not.

If you watch TNA you are basically watching the theatrical version of it, only this time it's being played out in TNA.

Chris Jericho is 100% correct.

Hall and Waltman attacking Nash is compelling TV, keeping you on the edge of your seast for next week...?

Really...?

Why...?
 
Anyone on this site ever read the Death of WCW book? I get the feeling most have not.

If you watch TNA you are basically watching the theatrical version of it, only this time it's being played out in TNA.

Chris Jericho is 100% correct.

Hall and Waltman attacking Nash is compelling TV, keeping you on the edge of your seast for next week...?

Really...?

Why...?
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first off - off topic; the writers of the book you speak off were harshly treated in WCW in their opinions so they clearly have an agenda. They blame everyones favourite heels Hogan and co. for the downfall whilst most others, sheet writers and people involved with the company, clearly credit WCW's downfall to AOL/Time Warners agenda against the company. A fact that is apparent when you consider that they ditched Nitro even when (even at its lowest) it out stripped any show they had in the ratings.

back on topic;

Jericho is 100% wrong; who's headlining TNA thats 50? or even over 40? The nastys and the D's maybe? one match? nuff said frankly

look at the people Jericho has to play second fiddle to - dont hear him complaining about that do ya? Nah cos they sign his checks. All I have to say is I hope Jericho enjoys putting over some talentless hack in a 10 minute midcard bout at Wrestlemania
 
Jericho(c) vs Edge
Sheamus(c) vs Triple H
Undertaker vs HBK Part II
Cena (w/Bret Hart) vs Batista (w/Mr. McMahon)

And if you do a little math that still puts the average of the "headliners" higher than TNAs at the moment. So, the question stands - cant Jericho's criticisms be more fairly labeled at WWE?
 
hey shattered dreams. I'd likr to know which one in TNA Impact's main event was 60?? Kevin Nash is 50 years old and Mick Foley is is 44. I sincerely hope you just had a typo. I think it's ridiculous that Chris Jericho knocks TNA for having older superstars when two of those superstars (hogan, flair) are better than 90% of current WWE superstars on the mic and have and probably will not compete in the ring( and the fact that the WWE was using Ric Flair within the last year as an on air character, so WWE must think Flair has something left in the tank). Also Nash is 50 so what? He' s not main eventing or contending for titles. he's put over yougn talent like Samoa Joe and Eric Young. In fact the only guy over 50 really that has contended for the title is Sting. It's how you use the older stars that matters not their age. Chris Jericho will someday be the same age and I'm sure still wrestling. Love the guy but his criticism was dumb. Steiner who people consider old hasnt even been on TV. now you can say what you want about hall and waltman. i dont get where they are going with them. Anyways just a few thoughts.
 
And if you do a little math that still puts the average of the "headliners" higher than TNAs at the moment. So, the question stands - cant Jericho's criticisms be more fairly labeled at WWE?

The difference is that out of HHH, HBK, Taker, and Batista, all of them can work/move better than Nash/Hall/Hogan/Flair/Nasties/Foley, easily. In fact, their most crippled guy is the Undertaker...you remember him? The guy that had match of the year with Shawn?

Have you seen Hogan/Flair on the Hulkamania tour? Go watch it. It's pathetically bad.
 
And if you do a little math that still puts the average of the "headliners" higher than TNAs at the moment. So, the question stands - cant Jericho's criticisms be more fairly labeled at WWE?

Id like to see your math, who would your "headliners" be in TNA? By my math the ages are alot closer than you are making it out to be.
 
The difference is that out of HHH, HBK, Taker, and Batista, all of them can work/move better than Nash/Hall/Hogan/Flair/Nasties/Foley, easily. In fact, their most crippled guy is the Undertaker...you remember him? The guy that had match of the year with Shawn?

Have you seen Hogan/Flair on the Hulkamania tour? Go watch it. It's pathetically bad.

Im sorry but the issue isnt whether they can or cant work, it about age, thats all Jericho remarked upon and thats what we are discussing. You wanna start a thread about who has the better 40+ stars that can work then I'll certainly be happy to wade in on it with you. But you cant come on here and change the parameters of the argument to suite your viewpoint.

Id like to see your math, who would your "headliners" be in TNA? By my math the ages are alot closer than you are making it out to be.

Why didnt you post yours then? If you're so sure mines must be wrong.

WWE's overall average age is 34.1, TNA's is 33.1

Now only taking into account who the main events are in each division; Tag, X-division and heavy weight, which is what I would consider "headliners" (workers charged with drawing the tickets sales etc) Now you post the numbers you get whether they're close or not (cos i never stated there was a stark difference, not once, Jericho is the one insinuating thats the case though)
 
I honestly prefer seeing a 50 year headline 2 or 3 TNA PPV's than WWE showing the same 3 guys 50 times over. Really? Apperently Jericho has become McMahon's weapon of choice to make poot sounds at TNA.

McMahon: TNA

Jericho: *poot!*

McMahon: TNA

Jericho: *poot!*

Come on. First is the taunt on January 4th and now this. Last I checked, TNA's been headlined over the past 8 months by the likes of AJ Styles, Matt Morgan, Samoa Joe, Daniels, Kurt Angle and Sting. Sting is 50 (I believe) but he can still go. Unlike poor Jericho, who no matter how good he gets they just use him to reestablish championships. Honestly, Jericho should shut up, get back to wrestling and stay out of the bar. I saw no ill feeling in Bishoff's words.

I'd rather see 50 year olds wrestling than 40 year olds throwing glow sticks and playing with midgets.
 
I honestly prefer seeing a 50 year headline 2 or 3 TNA PPV's than WWE showing the same 3 guys 50 times over. Really? Apperently Jericho has become McMahon's weapon of choice to make poot sounds at TNA.

McMahon: TNA

Jericho: *poot!*

McMahon: TNA

Jericho: *poot!*

Come on. First is the taunt on January 4th and now this. Last I checked, TNA's been headlined over the past 8 months by the likes of AJ Styles, Matt Morgan, Samoa Joe, Daniels, Kurt Angle and Sting. Sting is 50 (I believe) but he can still go. Unlike poor Jericho, who no matter how good he gets they just use him to reestablish championships. Honestly, Jericho should shut up, get back to wrestling and stay out of the bar. I saw no ill feeling in Bishoff's words.

taking just headliners from Smackdown ( Jerichos direct competition ) the average of headliners (ie title holders) is; 37.25, and TNA's is 34.25

think I'll just leave this discussion while Im still on top, dont wanna get too old and get critiqued for sticking around far longer than Im welcome......
 
Im sorry but the issue isnt whether they can or cant work, it about age, thats all Jericho remarked upon and thats what we are discussing. You wanna start a thread about who has the better 40+ stars that can work then I'll certainly be happy to wade in on it with you. But you cant come on here and change the parameters of the argument to suite your viewpoint.



Why didnt you post yours then? If you're so sure mines must be wrong.

WWE's overall average age is 34.1, TNA's is 33.1

Now only taking into account who the main events are in each division; Tag, X-division and heavy weight, which is what I would consider "headliners" (workers charged with drawing the tickets sales etc) Now you post the numbers you get whether they're close or not (cos i never stated there was a stark difference, not once, Jericho is the one insinuating thats the case though)

I believe what you wrote was "cant Jericho's criticisms be more fairly labeled at WWE?" So your the one insinuating that WWE was more deserving of the comments Jericho made, 1st off everyone including myself is nitpicking, Jericho didnt mean everyone in TNA, but he is right, the majority of TNA tv time has been going to the older wrestlers. If you go back in this thread I broke down how close the age of champions in both are, The difference between the old guys in TNA, and the old guys being pushed on WWE are the fact that WWE's guys can still go, a very few of the old guys in TNA can still go. I really think guys like Styles, Wolfe, Pope, Hernandez, ect are very good talents Daniels also if they stopped shitting on him, and the X division has always been good, but they are not being pushed right now, as much as I like the old NWO members, and have followed Hogan since 85, they dont have it anymore, Hogan needs to talk for ratings, but majority of fans would rather see any TNA star I mentioned above than Hall, Nash, Waltman, Nasty Boys, Val Venis, a fat Raven(Who should be helping out with the creative side of TNA) As I said yes Jericho exaggerated a lil. but I see young talent on EVERY WWE show EVERY week, how many young guys do you see on TNA getting pushes, or nice rubs from the older guys?
 
The difference between the old guys in TNA, and the old guys being pushed on WWE are the fact that WWE's guys can still go, a very few of the old guys in TNA can still go. I really think guys like Styles, Wolfe, Pope, Hernandez, ect are very good talents Daniels also if they stopped shitting on him, and the X division has always been good, but they are not being pushed right now, as much as I like the old NWO members, and have followed Hogan since 85, they dont have it anymore, Hogan needs to talk for ratings, but majority of fans would rather see any TNA star I mentioned above than Hall, Nash, Waltman, Nasty Boys, Val Venis, a fat Raven(Who should be helping out with the creative side of TNA)
The Nasty's, Sean Morley and The Band are getting air time, but there is a point to it. The Nasty's aren't gonna be around long as they can barwly walk, so they might as well squeeze the juice while they can. Morley wasn't on iMPACT! This week and quite frankly I doubt he'll last because the crowd is clearly disgusted, or uninterested. The Band of course would be the only conscern, but why? They only get the closing 5 minutes of the show and they are diverting Kurts attention from the Main Event so some fresh faces can take over. At the same time they leave you with cliffhanger endings which is necesary for hooking casuals onto consecutive broadcasts.
As I said yes Jericho exaggerated a lil. but I see young talent on EVERY WWE show EVERY week, how many young guys do you see on TNA getting pushes, or nice rubs from the older guys?

I see young talent in TNA too and they have a good showing against the bigger stars. The 8 Card Stud Tournament comes to mind as only Kurt Angle is the only former champion in it.

Jericho's accusations were dumb and childish. He should worry about himself instead of trying to get back at a guy that held him back 11 years ago.
 
I believe what you wrote was "cant Jericho's criticisms be more fairly labeled at WWE?" So your the one insinuating that WWE was more deserving of the comments Jericho made, 1st off everyone including myself is nitpicking, Jericho didnt mean everyone in TNA, but he is right, the majority of TNA tv time has been going to the older wrestlers. If you go back in this thread I broke down how close the age of champions in both are, The difference between the old guys in TNA, and the old guys being pushed on WWE are the fact that WWE's guys can still go, a very few of the old guys in TNA can still go. I really think guys like Styles, Wolfe, Pope, Hernandez, ect are very good talents Daniels also if they stopped shitting on him, and the X division has always been good, but they are not being pushed right now, as much as I like the old NWO members, and have followed Hogan since 85, they dont have it anymore, Hogan needs to talk for ratings, but majority of fans would rather see any TNA star I mentioned above than Hall, Nash, Waltman, Nasty Boys, Val Venis, a fat Raven(Who should be helping out with the creative side of TNA) As I said yes Jericho exaggerated a lil. but I see young talent on EVERY WWE show EVERY week, how many young guys do you see on TNA getting pushes, or nice rubs from the older guys?
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No I didnt insinuate it - I out right stated it, and I stick by it. WWE's headliners are older than TNA's. Its not a matter of opinion, peoples ages arent a matter of opinion; there a matter of fact. And the fact is Jericho has a cheek to critisize TNA for using old guys on top, for 2 reasons;

1. They dont - no-one over 40 holds a title

2. As stated before; WWE's top guys are older - guys he gets over looked for consistently.

That was the issue raised, no other, no-one said anything about workrate - not even Jercicho mentioned that. We were asked the question "does Jericho have a point". I clearly showed why I disagree with Jericho based on the facts and I didnt have to resort to changing the goal posts. You're going on about workrate and ability when this clearly isnt the issue - age is the issue because Jericho's point was about age, nothing else!

I'm not gonna discuss whether young guys are getting a push or not on TNA - its besides the point and its off topic. Theres a thread for that already go there if you wanna pretend that no younger talent has been featured strongly the last 4 weeks - when Ive watched everyone of them and with the exception of the Monday special I'd say they got at the very, very least 50% of the TV time - as apposed to the almost zero they got for the year the mafia dominated their TV.......all that ended when Hogan was announced - coincedence? Somehow I dont think so and somehow I doubt you'll admit to them being related in any way
 
taking just headliners from Smackdown ( Jerichos direct competition ) the average of headliners (ie title holders) is; 37.25, and TNA's is 34.25

think I'll just leave this discussion while Im still on top, dont wanna get too old and get critiqued for sticking around far longer than Im welcome......

Not to be offensive, but your math is also biased as well.

Take a look on average of the people that are actually relevant and mainstream wrestling fans 'know' and the name is marketable. Half of TNA's roster can be scratched off that weigh scale, because no one knows who Jay Lethal, that Creedance guy (lol, funny that it adds to my point that i don't even know his name), Shark Boy, Amazing Red, and the list goes on. Indy fans know these guys well, but Indy is not mainstream, and mainstream fans are confused as to who these guys are. Look at the other side of the fence, and WWE markets their talent well, and all these young guys like Evan Bourne, Kofi Kingston, The Miz, Jack Swagger, MVP, John Morrison, etc etc can all be easily recognizable by generally any mainstream wrestling fan.

Jericho won't work in ECW, so you can scratch that whole roster off the weigh scale as well, so his comments were pretty spot on, if not only a jab in the arm to Bischoff for hiring all the worn down war horses that nobody cares about anymore.

It also doesn't matter that these old guys are good on the mic, because if they can't add anything to the in-ring action, they can't be classified as wrestlers anymore, just pure entertainers. Now I won't scratch any of them off the list of getting in the ring, but in doing so they will prove Jericho's point perfectly when they can't move around the ring any faster than Great Khali.
 
You have to understand, TNA is in a different position than WWE. They want to secure ratings and get people to watch their product. What better way then to have 2 known names have a match to close out the show?

That's a good point, but I can't help seeing the irony of the situation. TNA is the "new" company; one might think they would be pushing the new talent. WWE is the "old" company and it might seem logical that they would be the ones utilizing the good old boys in an effort to reward employees who've been with them for many years.

It gets to me when I read people complaining about the pushes for guys like Drew McIntyre and Sheamus. On the one hand, we cry when new talent isn't pushed......then, in the next breath, we complain when they are.

And yes, in an effort to achieve ratings, TNA has chosen the opposite strategy; they've headlined guys like Nash, Foley, Sting and Booker T.

It will be interesting to see how it shakes out in the long run, won't it?


jackjill.jpg
 
Not to be offensive, but your math is also biased as well.

Take a look on average of the people that are actually relevant and mainstream wrestling fans 'know' and the name is marketable. Half of TNA's roster can be scratched off that weigh scale, because no one knows who Jay Lethal, that Creedance guy (lol, funny that it adds to my point that i don't even know his name), Shark Boy, Amazing Red, and the list goes on. Indy fans know these guys well, but Indy is not mainstream, and mainstream fans are confused as to who these guys are. Look at the other side of the fence, and WWE markets their talent well, and all these young guys like Evan Bourne, Kofi Kingston, The Miz, Jack Swagger, MVP, John Morrison, etc etc can all be easily recognizable by generally any mainstream wrestling fan.

Jericho won't work in ECW, so you can scratch that whole roster off the weigh scale as well, so his comments were pretty spot on, if not only a jab in the arm to Bischoff for hiring all the worn down war horses that nobody cares about anymore.

It also doesn't matter that these old guys are good on the mic, because if they can't add anything to the in-ring action, they can't be classified as wrestlers anymore, just pure entertainers. Now I won't scratch any of them off the list of getting in the ring, but in doing so they will prove Jericho's point perfectly when they can't move around the ring any faster than Great Khali.

How is it biased? Read Jericho's quote; the insinuation was that those headlining TNA were old talent which blatantly isnt the case - well known or not! Weigh scale?! Dude, Jericho said HEADLINER, that to me clearly means the top spots - hes not talking about the under card or even the mid card - hes insinuating TNA's main event spots are filled with old guys.

This is the second reply to my point that has little to do with the actual issue; why cant people just argue the point and not try to change the parameters due to a lack of a viable rebuttal of my point?!

Here it is - its simple;

Jericho, qoute, TNA, old talent on top, not the case, WWE actually has more, has a cheek, didnt mention workrate, didnt mention notability, was clearly referring to the top spots in the company, hes wrong

for the 3rd f*cking time no less
 
How is it biased? Read Jericho's quote; the insinuation was that those headlining TNA were old talent which blatantly isnt the case - well known or not! Weigh scale?! Dude, Jericho said HEADLINER, that to me clearly means the top spots - hes not talking about the under card or even the mid card - hes insinuating TNA's main event spots are filled with old guys.

This is the second reply to my point that has little to do with the actual issue; why cant people just argue the point and not try to change the parameters due to a lack of a viable rebuttal of my point?!

Here it is - its simple;

Jericho, qoute, TNA, old talent on top, not the case, WWE actually has more, has a cheek, didnt mention workrate, didnt mention notability, was clearly referring to the top spots in the company, hes wrong

for the 3rd f*cking time no less

50 years plus was obviously a joke, but "old" can definitely be attributed to "not new". Also headlined can be defined by anyone their giving attention to in a push and featuring on TV, so it doesn't necessarily have to be main event, either.

Best example can be The MEM. Kurt Angle, Scott Steiner, Kevin Nash, Sting, Taz. They "headlined" that show for the greater period of 9 months, and the majority of these people aside from Scott Steiner are still in the main event and still being pushed in the top spots. Also Ric Flair (by being placed with AJ, and the amount of TV time he's had with AJ, over 60), and of course but not least, HULK HOGAN (over 60). I can only count one guy that's in the same shoes as them that isn't an old name, and that's AJ Styles. Desmonde Wolfe can be arguably placed there, but he's only had a few matches with Angle and is already in the mid-card (of course this is natural, so i'm not saying it's TNA's fault or a bad thing, either). Of all those old names, the only two that I think can actually contribute athletically speaking is Kurt Angle and Sting. The rest have no right being in a ring at the level they are.

However in WWE you have Randy Orton, Kofi Kingston, Sheamus, the Miz, Drew McIntyre, John Morrisson, CM Punk and probably a few other guys I'm forgetting atm. For old names they've got Triple H, Shawn Michaels (These two are debatable as well because they can both contribute a hell of a lot more than even some of the young guys), and VERY arguably Chris Jericho (he has been on an upswing for the last 10 years bar his hiatus, without a sign of slowing down either), and Taker. Names like Kane and Big Show are irrelevant because they have NEVER been headliners (Kane is the only arguable one, but aside from his one reign and his WM match with Taker, he's gone nowhere). Bret Hart cannot be even considered because he can't even wrestle due to physical restrictions.

WWE doesn't have any wrinkly old guys wrestling in main event matches, the last one they had was Ric Flair and now he's adding to the pile in TNA. All the "wrinklies" in TNA can't do half the job that the veterans in WWE can do in putting a guy over, nor can they work a match even a fraction the quality of those guys, aside from Angle and Sting, and of the two it's a huge debate on Angle because we all know what happens when that guy feels the pressure and burns out (which was happening a little over a year ago when he was losing weight and bragging about it backstage to purposely keep his spot in the top, although all of that positioning was completely unnecessary because he's Kurt Angle; his level of competition is unmatched by ANYBODY, and he will be able to go until he "breaks his freakin' neck" again.

The way I see it, and it is only MY OPINION, is that TNA is housing all the old, useless, washed up hacks that nobody cares about anymore, and barely making a dent in putting over the young guys the way they should be (Sorry, the definition of Kevin Nash putting anyone over is a joke, it takes two to tango and when you have guys like Eric Young that can't get themselves over, it makes it hard for anyone to GET them over. And IN MY OPINION Eric young is not over).

This is just a debate, you don't have to go and flood your replies with swears and derogatory remarks. People have opinions, some people might think TNA is favoring washed up hacks over fresh talent, and some may argue WWE doesn't use their young talent correctly, but at the end of the day it is their opinions and you can't get angry at someone for voicing them. So just calm down and let others speak their own mind. I'm in no way implying any offense against you, it's just that you don't need to get angry because 3 different people disagree with you for many different reasons, it's their right to do so if they wish.
 
50 years plus was obviously a joke, but "old" can definitely be attributed to "not new". Also headlined can be defined by anyone their giving attention to in a push and featuring on TV, so it doesn't necessarily have to be main event, either.

Best example can be The MEM. Kurt Angle, Scott Steiner, Kevin Nash, Sting, Taz. They "headlined" that show for the greater period of 9 months, and the majority of these people aside from Scott Steiner are still in the main event and still being pushed in the top spots. Also Ric Flair (by being placed with AJ, and the amount of TV time he's had with AJ, over 60), and of course but not least, HULK HOGAN (over 60). I can only count one guy that's in the same shoes as them that isn't an old name, and that's AJ Styles. Desmonde Wolfe can be arguably placed there, but he's only had a few matches with Angle and is already in the mid-card (of course this is natural, so i'm not saying it's TNA's fault or a bad thing, either). Of all those old names, the only two that I think can actually contribute athletically speaking is Kurt Angle and Sting. The rest have no right being in a ring at the level they are.

However in WWE you have Randy Orton, Kofi Kingston, Sheamus, the Miz, Drew McIntyre, John Morrisson, CM Punk and probably a few other guys I'm forgetting atm. For old names they've got Triple H, Shawn Michaels (These two are debatable as well because they can both contribute a hell of a lot more than even some of the young guys), and VERY arguably Chris Jericho (he has been on an upswing for the last 10 years bar his hiatus, without a sign of slowing down either), and Taker. Names like Kane and Big Show are irrelevant because they have NEVER been headliners (Kane is the only arguable one, but aside from his one reign and his WM match with Taker, he's gone nowhere). Bret Hart cannot be even considered because he can't even wrestle due to physical restrictions.

WWE doesn't have any wrinkly old guys wrestling in main event matches, the last one they had was Ric Flair and now he's adding to the pile in TNA. All the "wrinklies" in TNA can't do half the job that the veterans in WWE can do in putting a guy over, nor can they work a match even a fraction the quality of those guys, aside from Angle and Sting, and of the two it's a huge debate on Angle because we all know what happens when that guy feels the pressure and burns out (which was happening a little over a year ago when he was losing weight and bragging about it backstage to purposely keep his spot in the top, although all of that positioning was completely unnecessary because he's Kurt Angle; his level of competition is unmatched by ANYBODY, and he will be able to go until he "breaks his freakin' neck" again.

The way I see it, and it is only MY OPINION, is that TNA is housing all the old, useless, washed up hacks that nobody cares about anymore, and barely making a dent in putting over the young guys the way they should be (Sorry, the definition of Kevin Nash putting anyone over is a joke, it takes two to tango and when you have guys like Eric Young that can't get themselves over, it makes it hard for anyone to GET them over. And IN MY OPINION Eric young is not over).

This is just a debate, you don't have to go and flood your replies with swears and derogatory remarks. People have opinions, some people might think TNA is favoring washed up hacks over fresh talent, and some may argue WWE doesn't use their young talent correctly, but at the end of the day it is their opinions and you can't get angry at someone for voicing them. So just calm down and let others speak their own mind. I'm in no way implying any offense against you, it's just that you don't need to get angry because 3 different people disagree with you for many different reasons, it's their right to do so if they wish.

Whilst I dont wholly disagree with you on anything you've said, I do have to make this point;

Ive listened to what Bischoff said - not just read the transcript or the sound byte banded around wrestling news sites. I wholeheartedly believe that Bisch wasnt saying that Jericho isnt world champion material - I think what he was trying to say was that Jericho isnt a Rock, Austin or Hogan; he believes Jericho isnt someone who you can build a whole company around. Whether you agree or disagree is irrelevant. The point put forth by the OP was "is Jericho right?". Now take into account that Jerichos statement clearly implied that all the guys in main event spots are 50 years old - that just isnt the case. Thats it. Nothing else. People started comparing workrates - irrelevant. His point was about age; People started talking about notability - irrelevant. His point was about age.

All valid points, no doubt in my mind about that but what do they have to do with Chris Jericho insinuating TNA's top spots, headline spots, are all taken by 50 year old guys? Absolutely none. Again I dont disagree with any of these points put forth but when the op asks "is Jericho right" you have to ask the one and only question "are TNA's top spots taken by 50 year old guys?' and again (broken record) they absolutely are not. When you say "WWE's young guys have more notability" you're answering a question no-ones asked. The point I countered with was exclusively to do with age. 3 or 4 guys who will main event mania will be, at the very least, over 45 - so I believe that Jericho has a cheek to say that about TNA, when you consider that fact and then you actually look at whos in the main event of the last TNA PPV and this up coming one (2 guys under 35).

Age is the point. That was what Jerichos point was and we were asked to discuss it. I said earlier if you want to start a thread discussing who's "older guys" are better or more capable workers - or a thread about who's young guys are more notable then I will be right there to wade in with you.

Im not angry because someone disagreed - Im simply annoyed that 90% of the counter arguments to my point werent directly about the question asked; "do TNA's top spots predominately contain workers at or around 50 years old". The simple answer is no. Cut it, spin it, splice it anyway you want - TNA's average overall age is 1 year less than WWE's AND the average age of belt holders is almost 4 years less than WWE's. Again, all about age, as per Jerichos point. I think this shows that Jericho is talking out of a hole in his backside and as I stated in my very first post I think he's towing the party line, dont put over Hogan or TNA and bury him/them if you get the opportunity to. I simply dont believe Jericho really believes that either - hes 40 this year - hes almost one of the old duffers he referred to.

Sorry if you took my last past as an attack on you personally or anything, that wasnt my intention. I hope this clarifies my position for you a little better.
 
Whilst I dont wholly disagree with you on anything you've said, I do have to make this point;

Ive listened to what Bischoff said - not just read the transcript or the sound byte banded around wrestling news sites. I wholeheartedly believe that Bisch wasnt saying that Jericho isnt world champion material - I think what he was trying to say was that Jericho isnt a Rock, Austin or Hogan; he believes Jericho isnt someone who you can build a whole company around. Whether you agree or disagree is irrelevant. The point put forth by the OP was "is Jericho right?". Now take into account that Jerichos statement clearly implied that all the guys in main event spots are 50 years old - that just isnt the case. Thats it. Nothing else. People started comparing workrates - irrelevant. His point was about age; People started talking about notability - irrelevant. His point was about age.

All valid points, no doubt in my mind about that but what do they have to do with Chris Jericho insinuating TNA's top spots, headline spots, are all taken by 50 year old guys? Absolutely none. Again I dont disagree with any of these points put forth but when the op asks "is Jericho right" you have to ask the one and only question "are TNA's top spots taken by 50 year old guys?' and again (broken record) they absolutely are not. When you say "WWE's young guys have more notability" you're answering a question no-ones asked. The point I countered with was exclusively to do with age. 3 or 4 guys who will main event mania will be, at the very least, over 45 - so I believe that Jericho has a cheek to say that about TNA, when you consider that fact and then you actually look at whos in the main event of the last TNA PPV and this up coming one (2 guys under 35).

Age is the point. That was what Jerichos point was and we were asked to discuss it. I said earlier if you want to start a thread discussing who's "older guys" are better or more capable workers - or a thread about who's young guys are more notable then I will be right there to wade in with you.

Im not angry because someone disagreed - Im simply annoyed that 90% of the counter arguments to my point werent directly about the question asked; "do TNA's top spots predominately contain workers at or around 50 years old". The simple answer is no. Cut it, spin it, splice it anyway you want - TNA's average overall age is 1 year less than WWE's AND the average age of belt holders is almost 4 years less than WWE's. Again, all about age, as per Jerichos point. I think this shows that Jericho is talking out of a hole in his backside and as I stated in my very first post I think he's towing the party line, dont put over Hogan or TNA and bury him/them if you get the opportunity to. I simply dont believe Jericho really believes that either - hes 40 this year - hes almost one of the old duffers he referred to.

Sorry if you took my last past as an attack on you personally or anything, that wasnt my intention. I hope this clarifies my position for you a little better.

Clarified, sir. Lol.

Completely agree with you on the "Can't build a company around Jericho" point. While he is one of my favorites of all time, objectively speaking, he's not a Rock or Austin, just a completely dependable name. They can depend on him to play a heel, a face, hell they could depend on him to play a love child of Great Khali and Beth Phoenix in a love Triangle with Ron Simmons (lmao), but for sure he's not a Rock or Austin, just a guy you can throw a belt on and be guaranteed he can play the role just perfectly.

The only reason i brought the "notability" or "recognizability" spin into it, is because most of TNA's roster is NOT notable or recognizable, and to the general wrestling fan, are not even of the slightest household names, whereas a lot of the younger guys in WWE (in part because they are on a bigger stage) actually have a shoe-in to be talked about around the dinner table in many different households. Sheamus is a great freaking example of that, considering the storylines and how long he's been in WWE.

Jericho, I believe, was correct in making fun of the "50 year olds" which as I noted in another thread (I think), was just a sarcastic remark because a lot of TNA's main event and top spots are most definitely being taken by "older guys", who may or may not be in their 50's, but definitely no where near filling the gap between the guys that actually built the company (18 - 30 years), although that obviously wasn't Jericho's aim, just a good way of construing it; morely just my concatenation to his comments.

Jericho was defending himself because Bischoff was trying to say, just as you said, Jericho is not "company building" material, like Rock or Austin. Jericho was shooting back with the 50's remark because all of the old guys in taking the top spots away from better talent, have never been and can never be a Rock or Austin either. In fact, I would put money on Jericho having a better chance to fill that role than ANY of these guys in TNA slotted in positions younger guys who have deserved it have, although these young guys don't have the experience necessary to beef up the main event, whereas the old guys have the smart and experience to do just that, so it's a catch 22, imo. They have guys who are too old and are "taking away spots" from younger guys, but without them there the product couldn't work as well as it has, so like I said, Catch 22.
 
Whilst I dont wholly disagree with you on anything you've said, I do have to make this point;

Ive listened to what Bischoff said - not just read the transcript or the sound byte banded around wrestling news sites. I wholeheartedly believe that Bisch wasnt saying that Jericho isnt world champion material - I think what he was trying to say was that Jericho isnt a Rock, Austin or Hogan; he believes Jericho isnt someone who you can build a whole company around. Whether you agree or disagree is irrelevant. The point put forth by the OP was "is Jericho right?". Now take into account that Jerichos statement clearly implied that all the guys in main event spots are 50 years old - that just isnt the case. Thats it. Nothing else. People started comparing workrates - irrelevant. His point was about age; People started talking about notability - irrelevant. His point was about age.

All valid points, no doubt in my mind about that but what do they have to do with Chris Jericho insinuating TNA's top spots, headline spots, are all taken by 50 year old guys? Absolutely none. Again I dont disagree with any of these points put forth but when the op asks "is Jericho right" you have to ask the one and only question "are TNA's top spots taken by 50 year old guys?' and again (broken record) they absolutely are not. When you say "WWE's young guys have more notability" you're answering a question no-ones asked. The point I countered with was exclusively to do with age. 3 or 4 guys who will main event mania will be, at the very least, over 45 - so I believe that Jericho has a cheek to say that about TNA, when you consider that fact and then you actually look at whos in the main event of the last TNA PPV and this up coming one (2 guys under 35).

Age is the point. That was what Jerichos point was and we were asked to discuss it. I said earlier if you want to start a thread discussing who's "older guys" are better or more capable workers - or a thread about who's young guys are more notable then I will be right there to wade in with you.

Im not angry because someone disagreed - Im simply annoyed that 90% of the counter arguments to my point werent directly about the question asked; "do TNA's top spots predominately contain workers at or around 50 years old". The simple answer is no. Cut it, spin it, splice it anyway you want - TNA's average overall age is 1 year less than WWE's AND the average age of belt holders is almost 4 years less than WWE's. Again, all about age, as per Jerichos point. I think this shows that Jericho is talking out of a hole in his backside and as I stated in my very first post I think he's towing the party line, dont put over Hogan or TNA and bury him/them if you get the opportunity to. I simply dont believe Jericho really believes that either - hes 40 this year - hes almost one of the old duffers he referred to.

Sorry if you took my last past as an attack on you personally or anything, that wasnt my intention. I hope this clarifies my position for you a little better.


I agree that Jericho could not carry a company, and understand your points, the only thing I have to point out is the avg age of Titles holders only differ by a lil over a year with WWE(34.8), and TNA(33.1). Unless my math is wrong, or I mixed up a champion.
 
I agree that Jericho could not carry a company, and understand your points, the only thing I have to point out is the avg age of Titles holders only differ by a lil over a year with WWE(34.8), and TNA(33.1). Unless my math is wrong, or I mixed up a champion.
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Well in the interest of fairness I only counted the 2 titles from Smackdown (The show Jericho is on) and the tag title holders, DX. Obviously I thought it only fair to work out the average of 3 tiltle holders because TNA only has 3 (global champ is hardy "headline" material) and to also only include titles Jericho could compete for at this very moment in time
 
JackBurton, I don't think bringing up Bischoff's comments about Jericho not being a Rock or Austin helps your argument at all. Isn't Eric Bischoff the one that said he could never market a champion who only wore black, and then fired a certain wrestler over the telephone, while injured? Not only was he 100% dead wrong about Stone Cold Steve Austin, after Vince did it, he had to have his own Stone Cold, named Bill Goldberg. You simply cannot trust anything that comes out of Eric Bischoff's mouth.

I also think you are confusing match time, with TV time. While the 50+ year olds (for the sake of semantics, lets just call them the Veterans that are well past their primes, or VWPPs, do take up a lot of TV time. TNA has been using WWE and WCW retreads for years to be the storyline drivers, because its easier to have someone like Nash, Angle or Sting to be the vocal parts of feuds, because they have been in the business so long, its almost instinctive. So they get a lot of promo time, even if their matches are short, and not the last match on the card. Chris Jericho, if not 100% absolutely right on the technical details, was correct about the implications of his comments. He was basically saying that TNA has relied on other company's superstars. That is, wrestlers who made their bones working for someone else for a long time, first, rather than showcase their own homemade talent. TNA cannot compete with the WWE as long as they keep wrestlers like Foley, Nash, Hogan, Sting, etc around, because they will just be seen as the old wrestler's home. Where wrestlers who cannot give anywhere close to 100% anymore can go, make a few last bucks, before fading away into obscurity. half of TNA's roster are fast becoming the real life versions of Randy "the Ram" Robinson in the movie the Wrestler.
 
JackBurton, I don't think bringing up Bischoff's comments about Jericho not being a Rock or Austin helps your argument at all. Isn't Eric Bischoff the one that said he could never market a champion who only wore black, and then fired a certain wrestler over the telephone, while injured? Not only was he 100% dead wrong about Stone Cold Steve Austin, after Vince did it, he had to have his own Stone Cold, named Bill Goldberg. You simply cannot trust anything that comes out of Eric Bischoff's mouth.

I also think you are confusing match time, with TV time. While the 50+ year olds (for the sake of semantics, lets just call them the Veterans that are well past their primes, or VWPPs, do take up a lot of TV time. TNA has been using WWE and WCW retreads for years to be the storyline drivers, because its easier to have someone like Nash, Angle or Sting to be the vocal parts of feuds, because they have been in the business so long, its almost instinctive. So they get a lot of promo time, even if their matches are short, and not the last match on the card. Chris Jericho, if not 100% absolutely right on the technical details, was correct about the implications of his comments. He was basically saying that TNA has relied on other company's superstars. That is, wrestlers who made their bones working for someone else for a long time, first, rather than showcase their own homemade talent. TNA cannot compete with the WWE as long as they keep wrestlers like Foley, Nash, Hogan, Sting, etc around, because they will just be seen as the old wrestler's home. Where wrestlers who cannot give anywhere close to 100% anymore can go, make a few last bucks, before fading away into obscurity. half of TNA's roster are fast becoming the real life versions of Randy "the Ram" Robinson in the movie the Wrestler.

Another post completely besides the point. Im not agreeing with Bischoff - Im just making it clear that he said a lot more than just "Jericho isnt a headliner" and that the reason that - that line was taken out of context was quite deliberate, it was done to create a story. Which it clearly has.

3 of my posts have been spent explaining that this discussion isnt about notability or workrate - the op asked if Jericho was right; and what Jerichos statement implies is that TNA's top spots are held by veterans. Ive given you the overall average of both companies AND the average age of the belt holders (I only counted Title spots Jericho can hold, ie Smackdowns and the tag belts as they are cross branded currently)

So the answer to the ops question is two fold; Hes wrong - TNA's champs are younger than Smackdowns and therefore he has a fucking cheek. Its that simple - Im not interested in workrate or notability, that clearly wasnt the point Jericho made and thus has nothing to with the point of the op.

If I ask you, "who is older; Jericho or Jeff Hardy" and you or someone else answered "Jeff Hardy is a better worker" or "Jericho is more notable" wtf does that have to do with the question I've asked?!

And also in relation to your point; "Jericho implies TNA are relying on other companies superstars". Seriously? Does he read the name signed on his paycheck? If I listed the names who were "poached" by WWE/F (Jerciho being one himself) I wouldnt have enough space - so thats another thing he has a cheek to be criticizing TNA for. Look who he works for for christ sake

All I'm saying is; You can argue for or against Jerichos comments but what you cant dismiss is the fact that Jericho makes a living working for a company who built themselves up to becoming worth over a billion dollars from the talent taken from other companies - some underused certainly, like the names you mentioned but the majority taken were important talent for the company they worked for. For example JYD, Jim Dougan and even Hogan

whats the saying? ah yes; Jericho doesnt have a leg to stand on
 
Top spot is NOT equal to being champion. That is what you are completely missing. Being a champion doesn't mean ANYTHING. The world title is nothing more than a television prop. A piece of the set. It is meaningless outside of that. The overall ages of the champions is irrelevant to the overall ages of those who get the most TV time, those who the company relies on to bring in revenue. You cannot tell me with a straight face that AJ Styles is a more important part to TNA's plan to compete with the WWE than the old-ex WWE and WCW guys are. Alex Shelley is going to bring in more viewers than Sting? Really? Suicide is more valuable to the company than Kurt Angle? Seriously?

Again, top spot is NOT equal to being champion. The only people who genuinely believe the two concepts are one and the same are those that haven't quite grasped that pro wresting is nothing but a tv show, just like House, Desperate Housewives, or CSI. The title is nothing more than a prop.

Here is an idea...next time you watch impact, get out a stopwatch. Keep track of the number of minutes an ex-WWE/WCW wrestler that is past his prime is on, and then compare it to the number of minutes a TNA original is on. Tell me how much TV time Hulk Hogan, Kurt Angle, Foley and Sting get, to the amount of time the Motor City Machine guns get. Or Shelley. Or Styles. Or Daniels. Or Roode.
 

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